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"First Gay President"; Ron Paul Ends Active Campaigning; Missing Girl's Dad Banned from Sons; John Edwards Begins His Defense; Columbia Janitor Earns His Degree; Jay-Z's Take; Mark Zuckerberg Back in the Days

Aired May 14, 2012 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. And I'm Ashleigh Banfield, sitting in for Brooke Baldwin today.

And just a short time ago, we got some news for you, Ron Paul ending active campaign in his bid for the Republican nomination. The thing is, he's still going after delegates. Yes, Mitt Romney aside, he's working the state conventions.

We have got more on that in a moment.

But, first, for the second time in a week, tongues are wagging over an edgy magazine cover. Have you seen the latest? It's "Newsweek" anointing Barack Obama as America's first gay president. It happens to be "Newsweek's" response to the interview that the president gave last week with ABC expressing support for gay marriage.

And with us now from New York is "Newsweek's" Mark Miller. He's director of editorial operations for "Newsweek" and The Daily Beast.

And, as everybody knows, there were lot of tongues wagging over your competitor, "TIME" magazine, with a blockbuster cover last week, Mark. It was the mom enough cover that was really provocative, to say the very least. Anyone who is living in a cave and just came out, there was the cover there. The country was talking about this.

So my question for you, Mark, is this a response? Were you trying to notch it up a bit to try to recapture some of that interest that was out there between your two magazines?

MARK MILLER, "NEWSWEEK": Ashleigh, I don't think so, actually.

What we wanted to do with this piece, because we knew with Andrew Sullivan writing, and being the author of it, and Andrew, as you know, is one of the chief intellectual authors of the idea that same-sex marriage is actually a conservative idea.

What we wanted to do -- so we knew that this piece would mean a great deal to Andrew personally and professionally. And so what we were trying to do in capturing that kind of intensity in the argument, the writer was, to have a column -- a cover image that would also be intense in the emotions that it evokes.

And it's an allusion to Toni Morrison's piece in "The New Yorker" which was edited by Tina Brown at that time that Bill Clinton was the first black president.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: But that wasn't on the cover, as I recall. Mark, that was something that was within. It wasn't on the cover. It wasn't sort of out there and in your face.

MILLER: No, but, you know, as you know, "The New Yorker" covers are quite different from what a news magazine cover would be.

BANFIELD: Well, let me ask you this. It's definitely provocative. I certainly get the message. But I live and breathe news every day. I even understand the innuendo and the arcane aspects to these covers and these stories.

Are you the least a bit concerned that the average person who has got a busy day dealing with kids walks by a newsstand and is misconstrues that this is actually a gay man who has now come out of the closet and is our president? And I don't think that is overstepping to ask that question.

MILLER: I don't think anyone is confused about Barack Obama's heterosexuality. And I think...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: They're concerned about whether he's a Christian or Muslim despite ad nauseam people telling people he's a citizen of this country and he's a Christian. And yet they're still confused about that.

Why do you think it's such a silly suggestion that a magazine cover like that might have people thinking, wow, I didn't know that?

MILLER: Well, if they think that, then they will open the magazine and read the piece, we hope...

BANFIELD: Let's hope.

MILLER: ... and understand what our argument was.

Our view is that our readers are smart enough to get the reference here, that he's embraced a fundamental aspect of gay rights and, in doing so, has become such a supporter that this kind of cover is understandable.

BANFIELD: Let me play quickly a quick sound bite from the weekend. Kentucky Senator Rand Paul speaking at an event had this to say about this issue and President Obama's wading into the gay marriage issue as he did last week. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Call me simple, but I wasn't sure that his views on marriage could get any gayer.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Mark, raucous laughter from that group. And as we know that the country is pretty much split 50-50 within the margin of poll errors on this issue, how is the president, do you think, likely to harness this issue and make it work for him in November, or do you think the president is more likely to leave it behind him?

MILLER: I think that's a very, very good question and one that the White House is working and the campaign are working overtime to figure out, because, clearly, there's some sense that this could help him among younger voters, where support for same-sex marriage is high among Democrats, independents, even more conservative, younger voters.

And so, in that sense, perhaps it ignites some of the intensity around his campaign that we saw in 2008. But then I also think that they worry about the potential for a backlash. And I don't know exactly where that's going to come down either.

I think they found though that, in the end, his position continuing to evolve on this topic was an untenable one that he couldn't sustain and that he was going to have to answer the question sooner or later. And it turned out to be much sooner.

BANFIELD: And I will be fascinated to find out how the polls going forward determine where the independents stand on the gay marriage issue and the president's stance...

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: Yes, absolutely.

BANFIELD: Hey, Mark Miller, good to talk to you. Thanks for doing this with us. Appreciate it.

MILLER: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Have a great day.

OK, you can call them Tar Heel, you can call them Blue Devils. Just don't call them Mississippi. Are you ready for this? Check this out? The North Carolina governor, Beverly Perdue, reacting with clear disdain to the passage of Amendment 1 in her state. The voters there overwhelmingly approved the amendment defining marriage as only one man, one woman.

But it's the way that the governor responded that has evoked this reaction. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BEVERLY PERDUE (D), NORTH CAROLINA: This is wrong for North Carolina. Clearly and simply, people around the country are watching us and they're really confused. Folks are saying, what in the world is going on in North Carolina? We look like Mississippi. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, as you can imagine, that comment went over like one big pile of Mississippi mud with the governor, Phil Bryant.

The Mississippi governor issuing this statement in response: "I am certainly disappointed by Governor Perdue's statement regarding North Carolina's -- quote -- 'looking like Mississippi.' Apparently, North Carolina's voters are much more in line with Mississippi's traditional values than those of Governor Perdue."

Meantime, Alabama going, whew.

Got a lot more news developing at this hour. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: The defense begins in earnest today in Senator John Edwards' trial. But how do you soften up an image of a guy who's taken a beating? I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And the news starts now.

(voice-over): Iran can't sell its oil, so it's apparently hoarding it, hiding it and sparking a cat and mouse game with the West.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark, can you just say your name and pronounce it so nobody messes it up?

BANFIELD: Plus, candid behind the scenes footage of Mark Zuckerberg well before he became a billionaire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: More news unfolding now "Rapid Fire" style, so roll it.

And here we go. Heads rolling at J.P. Morgan Chase. That woman, Ina Drew, resigning today as the firm's chief investment officer. And she's the first executive to fall after J.P. Morgan lost $2 billion in really lousy trades. Drew is retiring, but she was one of the most powerful women on Wall Street.

Also making news, the drums and the cymbals are going to be very quiet for the next year at Florida A&M, because the school's acclaimed marching band is suspended through 2013, all of this as punishment for hazing which allegedly was what led to the death of drum major Robert Champion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES AMMONS, PRESIDENT, FLORIDA A&M UNIVERSITY: I was heavily influenced by the need to be respectful of Robert Champion's family, as well as other alleged victims. A young man lost his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: An intense manhunt is under way in California for this man. He is a missing FBI agent who authorities describe as suicidal and who is possibly also carrying a handgun. He's Stephen Ivens, 35 years old. And he was last seen by his family Thursday at his home in Burbank. They have been using bloodhounds to try to track this man in a very rugged mountain area that is not far from his home. And 150 law enforcement officers are out there trying to find him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. MIKE PARKER, LOS ANGELES SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We do searches like this routinely, obviously. But we have special concerns given that -- given his apparent inclination to potentially commit suicide.

CAPT. DENIS CREMINS, BURBANK, CALIFORNIA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: There's no evidence of foul play right now, but that's why we still have a robust effort to locate him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Ivens is a special agent with the FBI. And his specialty? National security-type cases and counterterrorism, but officials are not saying exactly what his case load entailed.

And just a short time ago, CNN confirmed that Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul kind of calling it quits. He says he's going to end active campaigning for the White House, but he is going to keep pursuing delegates at Republican state conventions. Huh? The Ron Paul campaign has established a major presence in various state conventions. So Ron Paul may not be campaigning, but there is no suggestion at this time that he is going away, still wants to take some of those delegates to have some power at the convention and be a part of it, maybe even speak.

At this point, bacteria has eaten away at a Georgia woman's leg, part of her abdomen, and also possibly her fingers. But her family is focusing on what they call a miracle that Aimee Copeland is alive and improving after she got an infection from an outing in the woods on May 1.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY COPELAND, FATHER: The doctors are going doing the best they can to try to save as much of her extensions or her hands as they possibly can. And, literally, it's day by day or even hour by hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: CNN's George Howell joining me now live to talk about this story.

So what is the worst-case scenario at this point? We have all been talking about the hope that they can save her fingers. Does that look like a possibility at this time?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And you just heard Andy Copeland there.

There's a hope that they can save her palm. And if they can do that, she may be able to use a prosthetic. But at this point, the hope is that they can save that palm. She's already always lost her leg, part of her abdomen. And as doctors decide what needs to happen next, this bacteria is certainly just causing a lot of devastation. Who knows what next has to be taken off?

BANFIELD: Necrotizing fasciitis, not something we hear in our lingo about every day. But this is what it is.

HOWELL: But it's common. It's common out...

BANFIELD: Common?

HOWELL: It is common out there.

Apparently, it's a bacteria that can exist in water. It can exist in chlorinated water.

It's out in the natural environment. And the question at this point, where did she get this? Was it out there in the woods? You will remember this happened two weeks back. She was out with friends near Little Tallapoosa River. And she was out on a homemade zip line. That zip line snapped. She got this big gash in her leg.

Could it have happened there? Or could it have happened during treatment? That has yet to be determined.

BANFIELD: So here's the thing. A lot of people would say, well, if you're out in a Third World country somewhere and they have these unknown diseases to us, maybe that's how this happens. But this is 50 miles from Atlanta.

HOWELL: Yes.

Well, from what I have read, it rarely occurs, but it is out there. So this is something that can happen anywhere.

BANFIELD: So the lesson for me, I'm out zip lining or trekking and I get a terrible injury and I happen to be near maybe water that's remote, do I need to bring that up to my doctor? Do I need to say -- because she got some antibiotics, but they weren't the right thing right away.

HOWELL: It is scary.

You know, I think it's fair to be concerned about any water, any sort of a gash that you get. It's something you want to get treated quickly, because, again, it's just the sort of thing that's out there, but rarely occurs.

BANFIELD: It's just remarkable.

HOWELL: Yes.

BANFIELD: And Elizabeth Cohen also says empowered patient. You're your own best advocate.

HOWELL: Yes.

BANFIELD: So you can bring these things up to your doctor if you fear that that might be a possibility.

Keep an eye on it?

HOWELL: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: And give us the details and let us know how she's doing. George Howell,thanks very much. We appreciate it.

HOWELL: Of course.

BANFIELD: All right, so Iran can't seem too sell its oil. That's the way it goes, Iran. So that country has decided to hoard it and hide it. And suddenly this is sparking a big old global cat and mouse game with us and the rest of the folks in the West. And guess what's happening? We're talking ghost ships. I'm not kidding. It's a little "James Bond," so you don't want to miss this report coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: So if you're thinking about cruising around the Persian Gulf, you might want to beware of the floating firebombs. And if you think I'm kidding, I'm not.

There are ghost ships that are lurking on either side of the Strait of Hormuz and they are laden with millions of tons of oil.

Let me give you a map so you can know exactly what I'm talking about, because this is a very cool real-time look at the vessels in the one of the world's most crowded and busy waterways. The oiler tankers are in red. The green shows the cargo ships.

And believe it or not, the fuchsia are pleasure yachts, yes, pleasure yachts. But what you don't see that is most important, Iranian oil tankers that are loaded with crude, Iranian tankers that have set their GPS to the off position, which pretty much means they're invisible, especially at night.

And we're not making light of this situation, because it's quite dangerous.

Tim Lister is our CNN executive editor.

So, I guess the first question would be why are the Iranians putting giant ships filled with oil out in the dark in a busy passage and shutting off the GPS?

TIM LISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They can't sell it and that's because of sanctions, sanctions that are being led by the United States, but also now the European Union, added to which it's very difficult for the Iranians or anybody else to get insurance to carry Iranian oil anywhere in world.

What's their option? They filled up all their land-based oil terminals on Kharg Island, so now they're stacking the oil in their VLCCs, very large crude carriers. By some estimates, there may be upwards of 30 million barrels sitting on these ships just going nowhere.

BANFIELD: So they literally have nowhere else to put their massive oil supply. They can't sell it and they're just hiding it out there somewhere?

LISTER: Most is sitting off Kharg Island, which their main oil terminal and it's just sitting there with the transponders turned off, as you said, and they are waiting to find buyers.

One or two times they have sent their ships out into the open ocean, particularly the Indian Ocean. And they have found other tankers willing to off-load their crude, particularly South Korean and Chinese buyers.

BANFIELD: So, literally, they would head out this way and sail for probably a solid, what, week or so...

(CROSSTALK)

LISTER: That's right, week or 10 days to get to a market.

Traditionally, Iranian oil has always gone to Asia, but now, under U.S. pressure, Japan, South Korea, even China cutting back on their Iranian imports.

BANFIELD: So I made up this little term just because I think it was kind of apropos, that if the Iranians are sending these ghost ships filled with oil, looking for a sneaky black market buyer out in the Arabian Sea or the Indian Ocean, are they literally kiss poaching, like a boat will come right up to the tanker and suck the oil off and pay half price for it because it's illegal?

LISTER: That's exactly what they're doing. A huge discount they're offering because credit terms are so difficult for Iranian oil and so forth.

So they're going to find buyers wandering about the oceans, particularly Southeast Asia. And the smaller tankers come up, literally latch themselves on to the large crew carriers, then get off and disappear.

BANFIELD: And kiss poach. OK. You can use it, kiss poaching.

LISTER: That's exactly right, kiss poaching.

BANFIELD: All right, so here's what's a little bit complex for the viewer out there. You mentioned an insurance issue.

LISTER: Yes. BANFIELD: I think the reality is that people don't understand, why is this an issue now when the sanctions, the E.U. sanctions aren't even in place until July 1?

LISTER: Right.

BANFIELD: They have got months to be doing this free of charge. They can go anywhere they want. Why is it happening now? Why are they in advance of the sanctions struggling to get where they need to go and sell their oil?

LISTER: Well, they can, but say companies in India are finding it very difficult to find the right insurance. A lot of this stuff...

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: You have to have insurance in order to enter a port?

(CROSSTALK)

LISTER: You have to have insurance because, otherwise, these big tankers that cost, themselves, tens of millions of dollars, if they're not insured, their operators are not going to allow them to carry that oil. It's too much of a risk.

So it's what is called PNI. It's environmental and third-party damage to very large tankers so that maybe as much as $1 million a voyage because of the amounts these ships consider. And all of the world's tanker insurance is in London at Lloyd's. And so E.U. sanctions affects that.

BANFIELD: So if you can't get the insurance from literally the only game in town, which is Lloyd's, you're screwed.

LISTER: That's right. You're screwed. You can't get your oil moving.

So the Iranians are now trying to re-register ships. They're trying to hire other ships in. They're looking for new markets, anything to evade sanctions.

BANFIELD: So, in the meantime, if you're one of these guys, beware of where you go in a very busy passage, because there are literally these ghost ships out there.

LISTER: It's getting pretty crowded there now.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Tim Lister, really cool.

LISTER: Yes.

BANFIELD: You and I have to have more Monday morning coffee.

LISTER: All right, I will be around. (CROSSTALK)

LISTER: OK.

BANFIELD: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

By the way, just a short time ago, want to let you know that President Obama delivered his first commencement speech of this season, and not only were there some interesting moments, but it makes it pretty clear what his week is going to be like. And let's just say this. All about the ladies.

And just a quick note for you as well. If you're heading out the door, you can certainly continue to watch us on CNN from your mobile phone. You can also watch us from work. Just need to go to CNN.com/TV. You can watch us live on your desktop, get the mobile phone app. It's all very cool and you will never be without your news.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to give you another chance to hear a little bit more of President Obama's commencement address that was at Barnard College in New York. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What young generations have done before should give you hope, young folks who marched and mobilized and stood up and sat in, from Seneca Falls to Selma to Stonewall, didn't just do it for themselves. They did it for other people. That's how we achieve women's rights.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

That's how we achieved voting rights. That's how we achieved workers' rights. That's how we achieve gay rights.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

That's how we've made this union more perfect.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So I want to bring in Jessica Yellin, CNN's chief White House correspondent.

I just heard those two words, that's how we achieve gay rights, and I kept thinking that that would still resonate, that we would hear more in this commencement address, but that was it. And yet there's still sort of a ground shaking from the president's announcement last week that he backs gay marriage. Is this it? I mean, is that it? Is he going to leave it there or is he going to continue to address gay marriage and his issue on gay marriage throughout the campaign?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think you will hear him as he has, to be honest, Ashleigh, address the steps he's taken to increase the rights of gays and lesbians, repealing don't ask, don't tell, extending federal benefits.

I don't expect and I'm told it's not going to be a standard part of his stump speech, for example. And I wouldn't expect it to become a cornerstone of the campaign, unless the Republican Party, unless Mitt Romney chooses to take him on and pick a fight on it.

And if you look back at the speech Mitt Romney gave over the weekend at Liberty University, where he had a wide-open opportunity to make it a big topic of discussion, Mitt Romney only made gay marriage a one- line mention, where Romney just said marriage is between one man and one woman.

So, it doesn't look like the Republicans are leaning into making this a fight in the campaign either.

BANFIELD: Almost sounds, Jessica, as though both sides are looking at the polls, which within the margin of error are about 50-50 for and against. So it's a bit of a wash whether either side wants to take this issue...

(CROSSTALK)

YELLIN: Let's talk about other things, yes.

BANFIELD: And let me ask you this, money, fund-raising. A lot of people have said the gay demographic is bigger and more powerful and richer than the Wall Street demographic for President Obama.

YELLIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Is there any true to that? And if that is so, is this something then that he will discuss in private at fund-raisers with appropriate audiences?

YELLIN: Yes, that's an excellent point and it's something that we have been sort of reporting on since last week, that one of the pressures on the president has been the movement by gay donors and gay rights activists who are major contributors to the campaign to move forward on this issue, yes, because -- but gay donors don't necessarily have more money than Wall Street.

But because the president has not been getting money from Wall Street this cycle the way he did in 2008 -- I mean, he was just raising huge amounts of money, tens of millions of dollars from Wall Street. And he's not this time around. He has to make up for it in other ways.

So, where? Gay and lesbian donors, Silicon Valley, and Hollywood are three of the big areas where he's bringing in more money this time around and looking to bring it in.

But no, you can't say that the gay community is solely making up for Wall Street because there's no parity there. And I will point out, Ashleigh, that tonight, he -- the president is having a fundraiser at the home of a major Wall Street executive, but that's an unusual thing for this campaign now.

BANFIELD: And I notice that you don't have the White House behind you because you're in my normal location, New York City.

YELLIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And you'll probably be there tomorrow when he does his taping of "The View." So it kind of feels like women's week for the president. Hopefully we can check in with you tomorrow, too, Jessica.

YELLIN: That'd be fun.

BANFIELD: Nice to see you, Jessica Yellin, reporting on the road from New York.

Each week, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta profiles innovators from all walks of life and all fields of endeavor. The program is called "The Next List." It's awesome. This week he talks with a silver smith who recently won the MacArthur Genius grant for his creative work. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no one in the history of this country that's done what he's done. And I don't mean just the last 50 years. I mean the last two centuries. I think he got the MacArthur Foundation prize because there's nobody like him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told my wife that there is a monetary award over a period of five years of $500,000, and she said it's a joke. I hope I can thank them with my work and with my dedication.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, so he cheated on his wife and he got his mistress pregnant. Then he lied about it to anyone who would listen. With an image like that, how would you like to be John Edwards' defense team? How do you think you could soften up a guy like that in front of a jury?

Plus, news just in on the search for Isabel Celis in Arizona. She disappeared in the middle of the night from her very own bedroom. And this new twist involves her dad. We're on the case next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A new development in the possible kidnapping of Isabel Celis. And this is in Tucson, Arizona. That 6-year-old girl vanished from her home back on April 21st. And now Tucson Police are revealing that her father Sergio Celis cannot have any contact with his two older sons, who are reportedly 10 and 14 years old.

This order is coming from Child Protective Services. The police say in a statement that CPS, Child Protective Services, instituted certain measures to ensure the continued welfare of the Celis children. It needs to be stressed that it is common practice for CPS to become involved in investigations regarding missing children.

CNN's legal analyst Sunny Hostin is on the case.

So, Sunny, that on its surface does not look good. But should we read between the lines? Is this sometimes standard operating procedure? Or what should we make about this if anything at all?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it certainly isn't standard operating procedure for a parent to be not given any access to that parent's biological children. I think that that's something that needs to be said.

And typically, Ashleigh, in cases where CPS does do something like this, removes a child from a home or removes a parent from a home, that is usually due to neglect or perhaps abuse. Physical, sexual or emotional abuse. And so I think if you look statistically and historically at when this type of things -- thing happens, sure, you can perhaps glean some information from this decision by CPS.

I think what's also interesting is that it was Sergio Celis who reported that his daughter was missing. He was alone in the home with the children at that time. And he reported at 8:00 a.m. that when he went into her room to wake her up she wasn't there. So her mother wasn't there, the children's mother wasn't there. And so I suspect that investigators and CPS know something about the dynamic in that household or perhaps know something about the relationship between this father and his children that we don't know about.

BANFIELD: Just a sad mystery all around. We'll continue to watch for those developments.

I want to switch over to the Edwards case, though, because I know you're a former federal prosecutor. You probably have been watching this with bated breath.

HOSTIN: Yes, I have.

BANFIELD: I knew it. I knew it. So, listen, they've moved into the defense case, and up until now, as you know and I knew, when you follow a case, that prosecution's case just looks ugly. What do you think Edwards' attorneys are going to be able to do to try to mitigate somehow how yucky this man seems to these jurors, and then what do they need to do to deal with the actual evidence that they have in front of them?

HOSTIN: Well, you know, that's a great question, Ashleigh, and the bottom line is this I thought was going to be a very boring case because you're right, I'm a former federal prosecutor. This is a federal case, it's a case really about campaign finance laws, which is very, very dry. But this case has been anything but that type of case. It's been very, very salacious. It's been very entertaining at times, very sad at other times.

But the prosecution, or rather the defense in this case made it very clear what their defense was going to be. That they couldn't really defend the man, the things that he did. They said sure, he behaved badly, but not criminally. And I think that is what we are going to see in this defense.

Bottom line is, Ashleigh, this is sort of an unprecedented use of campaign finance laws. I mean the Federal Election Commission, who usually deals with these kinds of things, that agency determined that these weren't illegal campaign contributions. The Department of Justice's Public Integrity Section, of course, disagreed and that's why he's on trial.

BANFIELD: So --

HOSTIN: So I think when it comes down to the law, the defense probably has the stronger hand here.

BANFIELD: I got 10 seconds left. But do you think there was a smoking gun in this when the prosecution wrapped up?

HOSTIN: Not at all. Not at all. I think many of us were left thinking, myself included, that was it? That was the case?

BANFIELD: That's it? Well, then that's not such a bad week for the defense as they ramp up, and maybe they can use the time to try to soften his image somewhat if it's possible.

Sunny, it always good to see you.

HOSTIN: Same here. Same here.

BANFIELD: All right. Sunny Hostin, joining us live from New York.

An dup next, a segment you got to see to believe. At Colombia University, a guy mopping the floors, cleaning the toilets, all the while the students walking right on by him. And now he is one of them. A janitor now a Columbia graduate. Sounds like "Goodwill Hunting" because it kind of is. The story is incredible and that's the guy right there. He's going to join me live next to talk me right through it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You are going to love this next story. For years, this man on your screen, Gac Filpaj, cleaned the toilets, mopped the floors and took out the trash at Columbia University in New York. But this weekend, he instead put away the work clothes and donned a cap and gown.

Look at that picture. Just gives me goose bumps.

It took more than a decade, but Gac Filpaj (INAUDIBLE) Felipe is now a graduate of a prestigious ivy league university, University Columbia. And Mr. Filpaj joins me live now from New York. Congratulations. You must feel fantastic.

GAC FILPAJ, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY JANITOR: Yes, I feel great. Thank you very much for congratulating me.

BANFIELD: It's good to have you with us, Mr. Filpaj. Let me ask you this. You are -- you are from the former Yugoslavia, the State of Montenegro, and you came here in 1992 to New York. Did you speak any English when you got here?

FILPAJ: No, I didn't speak any English when I arrived here.

BANFIELD: So what did you do when you got here? What was the first thing you did when you got to America?

FILPAJ: The first thing I thought I need to look for a job, any job that does not require much English or where somebody from my country who speaks my language works there and can help me, you know, to translate and teach me what to do. So I worked for seven or eight months, I worked as a busboy in a restaurant. And at the same time, I started taking English courses. I think it was two days a week at Theodore Roosevelt High School in the Bronx for free.

And so -- and then after that, I learned a little bit to communicate. I learned some English. And then I thought at least for cleaning, this should be enough. And one of my teachers after I got interested which university in New York is the best. He directed me to Columbia. I came and I was lucky, and I got a job at Columbia.

BANFIELD: And that was a very clever --

FILPAJ: Actually late --

BANFIELD: Clever strategy. You got the job as the janitor at Columbia because you knew that you wanted to study there ultimately. And that was in 2000. So it was 12 years ago?

FILPAJ: Yes, that -- no, that was 1993 when I started working. And -- but my teacher told me that they teach English also. The class is the similar classes I took at the Theodore Roosevelt High School. I have the same -- similar classes I took at American language program here at Columbia during my working hours. I would leave for two hours my work, I would go for to class and then I would go back and make up one hour.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: And then ultimately -- ultimately, the year 2000, if I have it right, by the year 2000, you felt your English was strong enough to then start taking the college courses at Columbia?

FILPAJ: Exactly. By year 2000, actually I stopped for a while. I quit those English classes and I worked another job full time, two jobs -- two jobs full time both, and then but -- for one year. But at the end of the year, I had to return in taxes some money to the government and when I said it doesn't pay off because I earn more what I pay in taxes more, I spend more, I think that way I have a lot of money. So I don't know how to save.

And too much work. And so I quit the other job, stayed with Columbia, went back to English classes, reached a level 10, which is the level -- its level for international students, enables them to take college courses.

BANFIELD: That is --

FILPAJ: And then after I applied to School of General Studies, I got admitted and I started in 2000.

BANFIELD: Well, you just -- you must be over the moon and so excited as your classmates, you professors must be as well.

I do want to tell our audience that here you were in your cap and gown with your arms in celebration. With us today, you're still wearing your janitor's uniform, because as I understand it, you just came right from work. So listen, our congratulations to you. You are a terrific American story. And welcome to this country. I am glad you're with us. Thank you so much, Gac Filpaj. And good luck to you.

FILPAJ: Thank you. Thank you very much for your attention and for having me on your channel.

BANFIELD: You are a blessed man.

FILPAJ: Good luck.

BANFIELD: And we are more the blessed to have you walking amongst us. Gac Filpaj joining us live.

FILPAJ: Thank you very much.

BANFIELD: From New York. You're most welcome, sir.

And just a short time ago, I want to let you know that our Poppy Harlow interviewed Jay-Z. He weighed in on President Obama's gay marriage stance, the one that got a lot of people in the African- American community upset. You're going to hear how Jay-Z rolls on this and what that will mean for others who follow him. In a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: His name is Jay-Z and he really doesn't need any introduction because everyone knows he's a music mogul and everyone knows what he says matters.

Our Poppy Harlow sat down with him on a wide-ranging interview.

Poppy, you talked with him about a bunch of things, but specifically this whole issue of President Obama and his support of same-sex union, same-sex marriage.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We did. He was in Philadelphia today announcing a two-day festival in September to benefit the United Way, a big charity that he's behind. But I always like sitting down with him, Ashleigh, and talking to him about politics because he has a very interesting perspective. He is a supporter of President Obama but he falls in the middle when it comes to spending, he understands the Republican argument that you can't overspend. He also understands the Democratic arguments when it comes to money for people that need it most. That's what he tells me.

But we talk about the gay marriage issue because he fully supports President Obama. I wanted to know his take especially as an African- America, and we've seen some in the African-American community, especially religious leaders, coming out against what the president did in support of gay marriage last week. So here's Jay-Z's take.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAWN "JAY-Z" CARTER, RAPPER AND PHILANTHROPIST: I have always thought it has something that's still holding the country back. You know what people do and -- you know, in their -- in their own homes is, you know, their business. And you choose to love whoever you love. That's -- you know, that's their business. That's -- it's no different than discriminating against blacks, it's discrimination, plain and simple.

HARLOW: There are a lot of pundits out there that say this is going to cost him votes particularly African-American votes. There are some black religious leaders who were not happy about this decision. You think it's going to cost him those votes?

CARTER: I think it's the right thing to do. So whether it's cost him votes or not, you know, again, it's not about -- it's really not about votes, it's about people, and so whether it cost him votes or not, I think it's the right thing to do. As a -- as a human being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So right on the same page with President Obama on that one, Ashleigh. It'll be interesting to see what his followers make of that. I will tell you that we talked about the economy in great detail. And I said, look, can we call this a recovery? What are you seeing? He said this is a test of American character. We rode high for a long time in this country doing very, very well. He said these days we're being tested like we were in the Great Depression.

BANFIELD: Well, no matter what, people listen when Jay-Z speaks. So good interview. Look forward to the rest of it. Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Thanks.

BANFIELD: So just six years ago, Mark Zuckerberg was an unknown CEO.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: I haven't really been asked how the company was started before.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Oh, boy, do we ever know now, right? And his Facebook is about to go public, we're going to look back at that very rare interview when this billionaire was no billionaire, was just a little bit nervous in front of the cameras.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: He is young, he is super duper rich. And he is really very powerful. But you know what? It wasn't always that way. Not too long ago he was just another schmo at college but he had one heck of an idea and his big Facebook IPO is coming out this well.

All this week we're covering the Facebook phenomenon in depth and our Silicon Valley correspondent Dan Simon has a look back at Mark Zuckerberg when he was no billionaire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZUCKERBERG: Gosh. OK. I'm glad this isn't live.

DAN SIMON, CNN SILICON VALLEY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was 2006, about two years after launching Facebook from his Harvard dorm. A nervous and camera shy Mark Zuckerberg.

ZUCKERBERG: Sorry. Can I start that a different way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.

ZUCKERBERG: Feels like so numb today.

(LAUGHTER)

SIMON: Sits down for a CNN interview.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark, can just say your name and pronounce it so nobody messes it up and we have it on tape if --

ZUCKERBERG: Sure. It's Mark Zuckerberg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you like to be identified? Your title --

ZUCKERBERG: Founder and CEO.

SIMON (voice-over): Outside of Silicon Valley he was such an unknown quantity that our producer had to ask the most basic of questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did the company start?

ZUCKERBERG: Well, didn't start as a company. I was a sophomore at Harvard and we needed to -- I guess -- I haven't really been asked how the company was started before.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did Facebook start? Good answer. ZUCKERBERG: I'm a little embarrassed. You would think that I would have been asked that like a ton of times.

SIMON: Speaking wise? He may have been rough around the edges. But even then, it was clear Zuckerberg had a laser-like focus of what he wanted Facebook to become.

ZUCKERBERG: We view the site as sort of an information directory. It helps you better understand what is going on around you and once you're better informed about the people around you and what's going on, you're in a better position to meet people, connect with all of these people.

SIMON: Like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs before him, Zuckerberg is one of those rare CEOs whose pioneering accomplishments, fame and persona, make him an especially compelling figure.

DAVID KIRKPATRICK, AUTHOR, "THE FACEBOOK EFFECT": In private I think Mark is pretty entertaining, engaging fellow who's funny, who's got a lot of friends.

SIMON: David Kirkpatrick is what you might call a Facebook historian. Author of the best-selling book, "The Facebook Effect.

KIRKPATRICK: He is much more relaxed in private than he is in public. I don't think even to this day he really would like to be as much of a public figure as he is. And if it were up to him, he'd never be on a stage. He'd mostly just be sitting in front of a computer coding because that's what he loves to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see Facebook as your dream job or a stepping stone to something else?

ZUCKERBERG: It's definitely not a stepping stone. I don't necessarily think about what my dream job would be, but I guess this is pretty cool. I get to build what I want. That's awesome.

SIMON: It's interesting to get a glimpse of Facebook's small office back then. Notice the newspapers on the desk. It was only six years ago, but this was pre-iPhone and iPad. But one thing that hasn't really changed -- Zuckerberg's attire. T-shirt and sandals, also unchanged, and, most important.

ZUCKERBERG: Hi. I'm Mark Zuckerberg, founder of Facebook, an online social directory.

SIMON: His core vision for the company. To use technology to connect people to their friends.

ZUCKERBERG: I'm not building a company for the sake of building a company or because I think it's a good way to make a lot of money. I think that the philosophy that this company has is that you solve an important problem and then you have the ability to have a good business, but the basis of all that is solving an important problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BANFIELD: OMG. Dan Simon joining me live from San Francisco right now.

Dan, I couldn't believe listening to that interview and he's asked how do you want to be referred to, and he sort of shrugged, and says I don't know, maybe a CEO, it's incredible.

Do you think this big massive IPO is going to have any effect and actually change the guy who Zuckerberg has become known to be?

SIMON: You know it's a very good question. He has never appeared to be motivated by money but for the first time, Facebook has to worry about quarterly earnings. And so whether or not that changes the company and its product is the ultimate question. I'm sure they'll be working very hard to make sure that it doesn't ultimately affect the user experience, but the fact that they now suddenly have to worry about those quarterly earnings reports could have a major impact and I think that's what we'll be watching -- in the years ahead -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I do know -- just to wrap this up, I do know that one of the Wall Street analysts said she was quite offended when he showed up for the road show in New York still wearing a hoodie and actually said that shows an immaturity. I just don't know if that resonated or if it was just an off-handed comment. Do you think that matters at all?

SIMON: I don't think so. I think there may be a few people who saw that as a sign of disrespect but you know he is who he is. And he saw the same thing with Steve Jobs, he always wore the same uniform and I think Zuckerberg is very much falling in that style.

BANFIELD: Well, he's a fascinating character no matter how you place it and he's one wealthy dude, as well.

Dan Simon, nice to see you. Thanks so much.

We're going to toss it now to my colleague Wolf Blitzer who is live in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf.