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Protesters, Police Clash in Chicago; Robin Gibb Dies

Aired May 20, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon. You're watching the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're following breaking news out of Chicago where there had been some violent skirmishes back and forth with police officers that you're looking at there to the right of your screen. It happened moments ago.

To your left, live, you see police officers who are in combat gear, riot gear, trying to hold back and push back those protestors.

Ted Rowlands live on the scene for us. Ted, what are you seeing? Ted Rowlands are you there? Apparently Ted cannot -- as soon as we get Ted, we will -- we will go to him.

But again, this is what you're looking at. And I'm curious, I'm not sure, if Paul or Ted, since they've been down in this crowd, if we've had any chance to do any sort of reporting here for the number of injuries, the number of people who have been detained, who have been arrested and I would like to know that. And the crowd numbers as well -- Ted Rowlands talking now.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- I see, again, it seems as though we might be looking at a situation where --

LEMON: So Ted is on the air. He's not sure that that he's on the air and so when we get Ted for sure, we'll go back, ok? Thank you.

But again, this is live pictures and this is from Cermak and Michigan Avenue, right near Lake Michigan in Chicago and this is -- McCormick Place is where they're holding the NATO Summit and this is not that far away from McCormick Place, so police are trying to push people west. They're saying, move west, move west, which is away from McCormick Place. West would be away from the lake and further into the city.

And if you -- if they were to go east, they would end up in the lake. North or south, if they were to go south, they would end up at -- at McCormick Place. So just to sort of give you an idea of where they are in the city.

This is as peaceful as we have seen it as we have been watching these pictures over the last hour, so maybe a little bit longer here.

And you know these -- these police officers are not taking any you- know-what off of these protestors. And these protestors are angry. Both sides have been standing their ground. As I said earlier we have the right to take to the street. We don't have the right to throw things at police officers. We saw buckets being thrown at police officers, we saw water bottles being thrown at police officers, we saw a police barricade being hurled from the protestors and to the police officers' side, and we've also seen police officers just pummeling people and we don't know why.

I don't know if the protestors instigated it or if they didn't. I don't know I'm watching these pictures live just as you are and occasionally getting information in my ear about what's going on. But I would like if we can have our desk check on some of the information to find out how many people have been detained, how many people have been arrested, how many people are actually in the crowd, what are the complaints and how they plan to move these people out, what they plan to do with them once they move them out, why are they trying moving them west? To where? Have any officers been -- been injured.

I don't know any of that -- I'd love to know that. Paul Vercammen standing by for us; Paul, what do you know?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, some of this knot that we described for you has sort of has been loosened up because they have moved a number of the demonstrators west now to Cermak and Wabash Avenue here in Chicago. I heard some of the questions you were asking and sometimes when you're in the middle of something like this looking from the inside-out, it's hard to determine.

We did not see any officers who were injured. Now we did see, I would count about eight people being treated on the side not by any paramedics associated with the city of Chicago or an independent group. They were treated by the medics who are part of the overall rally.

One man told me that he was struck four times by Chicago police with a baton. We have no idea of knowing whether or not he had provoked this or not. He also said, as you saw earlier, when people started picking up barricades, some people did get smashed and one, I guess, silver lining to all of this, I saw some of those, the shutting with the barricade and it's just good fortune that nobody was pushed through the glass window of any of the nearby stores or restaurant.

The situation right now, I can see Chicago police are pulling in some large vans now headed toward the biggest block of the protestors, and it looks like some sort of hazardous materials or emergency van. I also can see that there is a Chicago fire department ambulance again toward that other area, so the attempt right now by police is trying to loosen up, as we said, this huge knot of protestors not too far from where the NATO summit is being held -- Don.

LEMON: Yes and thank you Paul, for answering some of that, because those are the questions our viewers have at home.

Here's the interesting thing. The cops are there to protect the people who are at NATO. But the people who are there who are protesting certainly have the right to protest but they don't have the right to be violent, and neither do the cops. So it's an -- it's an interesting situation that we're seeing going on here.

And it's -- see that the one in the bottom of your screen on the right, I mean, it's just -- every time I see it, I just can't imagine being any of those people who are on the ground or in front of those police officers. My goodness, I don't know, does anyone deserve that?

So that's what happens when you have these situations. Any sort of summit where you have leaders, any time you have a major number of politicians who are in town for the conventions, each convention that I have attended and reported -- I remember being in Philadelphia and there were anarchists and there were protestors and the situations were very similar to what you're seeing now in that city, and this is back, what, in 2000 -- I can't remember 2000 or so?

And then any time there is a convention or something like this with world leaders, with politicians, there are protesters who are angry about one thing or another and some of them very legitimately. But we are watching this because the violence really has escalated in the last couple of hours as you can see there on your screen.

We want to listen in, this is live from our affiliate WLS.

(PROTESTS AT THE NATO SUMMIT IN CHICAGO)

LEMON: What you saw was there a scuffle with one man -- it looks just one man and a number of police officers and then here we go again with them trying to push back. But let me tell you -- let me tell you this. This is our -- this is our ground shot. We're going to listen.

Ok so you can hear. The whole world is watching, the whole world is watching. At least this is exactly what I was going to say before we listened in there. I know the whole world is watching. But I live in Chicago, the whole city is watching, the police department, the brass are all watching at headquarters right now. They're watching at the Office of Emergency Management.

And you can better believe they're telling their officers you're -- you're being watched, you're being live -- you're being aired live on CNN, so mind your P's and Q's. I know that they're doing that. But it does appear that there is some situations that the police officers have either gotten themselves into or that the protestors have forced them to do, either way, that had played out on the screen for people to see and the videotape will be looked at to see who caused what and what happened.

CNN's Jessica Yellin there actually covering the business of this NATO summit in Chicago and Jessica, they're talking about Afghanistan, they're talking about other things, and this is their backdrop.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is, Don. And, you know, I have to say it's very quiet here inside the Summit Convention Hall. One of the major -- the major focus here is Afghanistan and what kind of commitments these countries gathered here will make in the next years to Afghanistan when the President has said all forces will be drawn out by 2014. One of the big concerns? France. The new leader there has said as part of his campaign pledge that he will remove all troops, all combat troops earlier by the end of this year than they were originally planned. Well, today the U.S. has found an elegant way to spin that and say, well, guess what, troops are already transitioning out of that region and it's not such a big jolt to Afghanistan, and it's part of the transition plan, anyway.

That allowed the President, when he was meeting with Hamid Karzai, the President of Afghanistan, to say the world remains in full support of the exit plan from Afghanistan. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are working with the Afghans over the next several years to achieve a complete transition to Afghan lead for Afghan security, one in which we continue to provide support for the Afghan National Security Forces, but have made excellent progress over the last several years.

And also painting a vision post-2014 in which we have ended our combat role, the Afghan war as we understand it is over, but our commitment to friendship and partnership with Afghanistan continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YELLIN: Now the next task is to find commitments from the other countries here, Don, for financial support going forward, some $4 billion total between now and 2014, and also to begin talks about what some kind of military support might look like after 2014 -- Don.

LEMON: And other things besides Afghanistan as well are high on the list to deal with.

YELLIN: Yes. There is a long list of issues and usually it would be much longer, but because Afghanistan is such a focus, a little more limited. One is Pakistan. Pakistan has cut off U.S. access to supply routes. Usually the U.S. is allowed to use these to bring troops and supplies in and out of Afghanistan. It's the easiest and cheapest way to do it. For the last six months, not much access and so they were looking to negotiate a way to get that going again. More progress to it, but it's not going to happen during this NATO summit.

And then another big issue of some talks about a missile defense system for Europe; that's something Europe really wants, but it makes Russia very uncomfortable and so that's a bit of a sticky situation, but that will be on -- on the table for discussion as well -- Don.

LEMON: All right. That's Jessica Yellin. Thank you, Jessica. We didn't see Jessica but we know her very well. She is not only very smart, but she is very pretty. We did not see her there. She is just blocks away from these protests that are happening in Chicago.

Jessica is actually covering the business of this NATO summit that's happening, talking about Afghanistan and what exactly the other things that are on -- on the agenda there. But on the police's agenda right now, keeping these protestors at bay, keeping them away from the NATO summit. As we listen in, we'll take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Ok, live now to Chicago. Do you see what's happening there with the protest? The NATO summit is there and at the center screen at the top is our reporter Paul Vercammen. Paul, you're in the middle of that crowd. We have seen some skirmishes. Talk to us about what's -- what's going on here.

Hang on Paul --

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, Don, you can see --

LEMON: Hang on Paul. Hang on -- hang on, Paul. Hang on, hang on -- we want to see --

(CROSSTALK)

(PROTESTS IN CHICAGO AT THE NATO SUMMIT)

LEMON: Ok. We're going to get back to Paul Vercammen in just a second. As I understand, our Ted Rowlands is in the middle of that right now. Ted, what's going on?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (inaudible) getting pushed back on to a sidewalk. Chicago police are pushing people up against the wall. We're getting really smashed up against other people by the police. They're trying to push the crowd back. The problem is there's nowhere to be pushed and we're getting smashed into other people and the pole behind us -- a light pole.

Oh, boy, this is chaotic.

LEMON: Ted, are you ok?

ROWLANDS: Yes, we're getting pushed back by the Chicago police and they're pushing now the crowd into a very full area up onto the sidewalk. So as we merge from the street to the sidewalk, of course, people are getting pushed together even if you're not right on the front line getting pushed by the police, you're getting sort of pressure from both sides.

There is a lady crying next to me. She seems to be hurt. Other people are kind of just complying now. Just (inaudible) trying to get out to some open space. But the vast majority of the protesters who were here earlier have sort of moved out of the immediate area. And the plan, if you will, of the Chicago police seems to be working and they've been able to push them off the main part of the street, and now everybody has been pushed down to the sidewalk.

LEMON: Hey, Ted, before you keep going -- I'm going to have you keep talking, but I just want to warn our viewers, you're hearing some words that you don't often hear on television, but again, this is live, and some people are saying things that they say when they don't realize microphones are on and it's being broadcasted around the world.

Ted continue with --

ROWLANDS: Now I'm having a tough time hearing you. The surge is pretty much over now. I don't know if you could see a wide shot or not. The amount of people that is here is a lot less than it was even just a half an hour ago.

(inaudible)

LEMON: Ok. I can't really hear Ted anymore, so Paul Vercammen -- sorry I cut you off. Paul, I can actually see you. Paul, what's up?

VERCAMMEN: Don, I'm out here on the street where a whole bunch of protesters basically were sealed off by police and started moving in this direction. And then you were talking about -- my camera now stuck in the 12:00 -- you were talking about the fact that there is some salty language being exclaimed here.

Part of it involved one of the neighbors here who came out and told the protesters to go home, and they were exchanging some rather choice words. That heightened the tension in this area.

I also see just a knot of protesters. I'm going to go ahead and tell you, go ahead and pan this way, if you would, please. We've got some more demonstrators and police sealed off in this part of the street, which is Cermak, and as we discussed, they're trying to move everybody west. You see both Chicago police in the light blue helmets in their riot gear, and now we see some state police moving through, and again, the idea is to disperse the crowd.

The crowd did come through here, and, in fact, this little corridor, if you want to call it that, not far from here is where some of the demonstrators were treating the injured just out of range of the camera. I just saw a single water bottle being thrown but I don't see any pushing or shoving.

And where I am right now, Don, it's relatively calm, but with this type of a fluid situation, it will be tranquil and then all of a sudden it will just be a burst of activity and some pushing and shoving and some more people will be moved out. As Ted pointed out, a lot of people who did want to leave have left already, Don.

LEMON: Paul Vercammen, hold that thought because as I understand do you have -- you have some protesters there who are going to talk to you, right? All right.

If we do, Paul, we're going to hear from them on the other side of the break. We're going to continue to follow this breaking news story and hear from some of the people in the crowd.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back now live, we're covering the disturbances in Chicago, just a shadow and a stone's throw away from the NATO summit.

I just want to read here before we go to our reporter that I've gotten from someone who's on the ground. And this is an official with the city of Chicago but this person is not authorized to speak so I'm not going to use their name. The official says, what happened in the altercation that we've been covering -- I believe it's the one where you see the police officers pummelling the protesters -- it's 50 to 75 protesters with a group called the Black Block. They got violent and refused to leave. They started throwing objects. There are (inaudible) over reports of bottles and bags with rocks and other objects, throwing that at police and shoving.

The official says police held the line and have this person -- held the line, they extracted individuals who have been identified as aggressors, meaning taken the aggressors out of the crowd. Not sure if there have been arrests or people just being taken away, detained or put, you know, moved to other places. And so we're working on more information for you.

Ok. Now let's go to the protesters down on the ground. Paul Vercammen -- Paul, let's talk to some of the folks who are there. What are they saying?

VERCAMMEN: Let's find out right away. Excuse me. You're Chris. Show us your arm, please. All right. You say that was caused by what?

CHRIS: A police baton.

VERCAMMEN: Why?

CHRIS: I got swept up and kind of pushed toward the front of the line, and as they were advancing on us, they started swinging on people in the front lines.

VERCAMMEN: And did you say anything or did you do anything that you thought provoked this?

CHRIS: Nothing at all.

VERCAMMEN: And what is it that brought you out today? What is it you wanted to make a point about?

CHRIS: Well, I'm with Occupy Chicago and I do feel that NATO pushes predominantly an austerity and war agenda.

VERCAMMEN: All right. Let's talk to Nicko over here. Nicko, how have you been treated today and then why are you here?

NICKO: I've been treated with contention. We're not here to fight the police. The police are here to fight us. We're here to fight NATO. We're here to protest against the wars in Afghanistan and Israel, the Zionist state. I'm not here to fight the police but they seem to want to fight us.

VERCAMMEN: Someone might say, however, there's been a lot of taunting of police. I'm not saying that was what you were doing.

NICKO: Yes. Well, there's taunting on both sides, obviously, and there's dissent in both groups. Well, actually not both groups, within our group there is dissent. There are people that want to maintain peace, but there are other people who want to, I don't know, they want to fight back against the police. But I'm not one of those. I want to maintain the peace.

VERCAMMEN: Let me point this out. Are any of you members of the so- called Black Block? So sorry? You're affiliated with the Black Block? Have you heard your group is being blamed for a lot of stuff going on here today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but that's not true because all these people in the street, no matter if they were Black Block or not, we're still technically in an unlawful assembly. And the police used force to get them out of the street. No matter what their affiliation is, they will use police brutality to disperse people, violent tactics.

VERCAMMEN: And what would you say to people who say you were provoking police?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously not because we were standing here peacefully. People were pushing police lines, but even the people that were not were still subject to violence by police.

LEMON: Did he say they were in an unlawful or lawful assembly, Paul?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not push any police officers or taunt them at all. I was trying to calm down one guy who was ranting a bit. But he wasn't assaulting anybody, he was just being young and insulting. That's hardly a call for violence, I think.

VERCAMMEN: Let me ask you a question real quickly, though. You know that over the weekend in court appeared three people who were alleged members of the Black Block. They are accused of a campaign to go ahead and firebomb President Obama's campaign headquarters, Mayor Rahm Emanuel's residence and some other sites.

Two counts of terrorism and a count of possessing explosives. Do you know who those guys were and what to say to that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm from Oakland. I don't have any idea who the guys were, but that shouldn't paint a picture of the larger Black Block group. I don't think anyone in the Black Block believes that, you know, destruction of that kind is necessary.

VERCAMMEN: All right. We appreciate you taking time. Don, there you have it. Some of the opinions here on the streets of Chicago as things have kind of calmed down right behind me.

LEMON: It's interesting when you were talking to that guy, I wasn't sure if he said he was in a lawful assembly or unlawful assembly, because sometimes before a protest, you actually have to get a permit to do it. I'm interested to understand if they feel they were assembling lawfully on the streets, because there were barricades that were set up that the police said, you can stand behind this particular barricade and you can protest, but if you go this far, then you are in an unlawful protest or an unlawful assembly, and I'm wondering which is the truth here.

Paul Vercammen, thank you. Stand by, Paul. If you can get that information, we'd love to hear that.

We're going to continue to follow this, but we're going to take a quick break, and on the other side of the break we're going to readjust and update you on exactly what is happening in Chicago just in the shadow of the NATO summit. The President and world leaders and all hell has broken loose. Chaos on the streets of Chicago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Breaking news here on CNN. We're covering these protests live in Chicago. They have become very violent over the past two hours or so especially since we have been here live on CNN and you can see the police officers there in combat gear. It's interesting because Paul Vercammen, our reporter who is there, spoke with some of the protesters and they say that they were - that they have every right to protest, and they do, to take to the streets.

And other folks are saying - well, the police officers wanted them behind barricades. And people are saying, "Well, there is a first amendment. Barricades. No, but the people of Chicago have a right to be able to get in and out of their homes but people at this NATO summit have the right to be safe and to be kept away from protesters and harm. So you can understand why the police want to move them back. Some of the violence you can't understand. Paul Vercammen live in the crowd. Go ahead, Paul. Ted Rowlands, sorry. Go ahead, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. Well, basically what you're saying is absolutely true. Before this started, the chaos, there was a permitted protest. This was an event where veterans had a stand -

LEMON: We cannot hear him. Hey, Ted, your microphone, I don't know if you need to move closer or you need to change the battery in your microphone, but it is going out. We can't hear you. When you get it fixed, we'll come back. Paul Vercammen, to you now. Let's hope it works. Hey, Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, my IFB has gone international or something.

LEMON: OK. So Paul's IFB, the thing he's listening to, has gone to another CNN network, which is CNN International. Again, this is - I'll tell you where this is. I used to live in Chicago. This is what they call the South Loop. It's right downtown. McCormick Place is where they're holding the summit. McCormick Place is a huge venue or convention venue, trade shows, whatever. It is enormous. It's as big as more than probably 10 football fields. It's a giant place where they're holding these things.

This is probably, oh, another half a mile, maybe a mile away from where they're having that summit, and this is Cermak and Michigan Avenue. And so if you are able to see the camera pan over, it would pan right over to Lake Michigan, and McCormick Place is on Lake Michigan. And so just to give you an idea of where all of this is happening, and it's in the shadow of downtown, as you call it. It's not down where you see all the big buildings but it's down where the business is and not far, city hall is not far if you go west a little bit. Let's try Paul Vercammen again. Paul - let's try Ted Rowlands now. Ted, microphone working this time?

ROWLANDS: Yes, we changed microphones and hopefully you can hear me now, Don. Basically, what's happening to take up what you were talking about earlier, there was a permitted protest here, there was an organized protest here that took place this afternoon, after a march, and that was peaceful. The chaos happened after the Chicago police asked people to leave following the end of that permitted protest.

Basically the time was up, so they asked people to leave and they didn't. And now we're down to basically a very small group of people relatively from where we were earlier, maybe 100 tops in this area that is in this standoff with police. You can see they've got them all on a sidewalk here and they've set up a barricade of officers on both sides of them. Our satellite truck is actually right behind these officers right here, so we're in a protected area, unlike earlier.

Bottom line here is these folks here are defying the law. They've been asked to leave, they've been ordered to leave probably 100 times via a loud speaker, and they're not moving. So the last warning we got from the warning system was, if you do not leave, you could be arrested or you could be subjected to noise, meaning that they have a machine here that sends out a piercing noise that is very unpleasant to the eardrum, and they've warned people here that that will be the next thing the Chicago Police are going to use in their arsenal to try to get all of these people out of here.

The NATO conference is in McCormick Place. You know this well from living here in the city. We're at least three blocks from the world leaders. There is no way that there is any security issue, so whether or not Chicago Police just let this die slowly and let it peter out over the next few hours or if they continue to push these people back, we have to wait and see.

LEMON: Hey, Ted, I don't know if you know about this, but I've been getting people who have been tweeting saying, "Hey, Don, I want you to know that there are dozens of Afghan and Iraq war vets throwing their medals outside of NATO but they haven't seen any coverage." Do you know anything about that, Ted?

ROWLANDS: Yes, absolutely. We - I believe we covered it earlier today. We were standing there for the entire ceremony and we had a live picture up there, and it was a moving ceremony, actually. This is what I was talking about earlier, the permitted protest, the reason that a lot of these folks were here at this corner in the first place. There was a march that ended at this intersection, and one by one, these veterans got up, told their story, talked for a few minutes and then they actually took off their medals and threw them towards McCormick Place, towards the NATO summit where the leaders are meeting, and there was in excess of 35 of these veterans that decided they wanted to take part in this action today.

That's absolutely true, the people who are asking for you to recognize that, we saw that firsthand and that did take place and that was an absolutely peaceful event. It was just moments after that event ended that this chaos started up.

LEMON: And Ted, have you heard anything from police? I actually put in a phone call and e-mail to the Chicago Police as I was sitting here and no response from them yet. You know how it works, you call, they say e-mail your request. They whatever but they have not gotten back to us. What are they saying to you? I know the police officers can't officially talk to you, they can't talk to you on camera, but have you heard anything from police about their response to this?

ROWLANDS: No, we haven't. We've tried to, but they have refused to talk to us on camera and off camera. And, quite frankly, they are very busy because this is an ongoing situation. It's easy to sort of see what their strategy is, though, watching this and talking to them earlier with their idea of how they are going to handle the thousands of people. Their plan was to build this red zone, this area around where the NATO summit was taking place and stick to it. And you see by the sheer numbers of officers out here that are not just Chicago Police but Illinois state troopers and police officers from neighboring states including Milwaukee and others along with the FBI and the Secret Service. They held this red zone and said no one is getting any closer than this, this three-block radius, and that's what their strategy has been and we're seeing it play out here today.

On the other hand, protesters were livid by this saying that they weren't getting their message to the world leaders, they wanted to be closer and there's where you have the conflict.

LEMON: Yes, that's the interesting thing, so close but yet so far. Because I spoke to Jessica Yellin and you know, you said about three blocks away or so, they couldn't really hear anything there. Ted, I enjoyed talking to you. You know Chicago, you lived there. Stand by. I want to get a break in and then Ted and I will talk more on the other side of the break about what's going on there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We continue to follow the breaking news and get you the headlines right now. Let's get you caught up. World leaders kicked off the NATO summit in Chicago today amid the backdrop of hundreds of protesters and violence. Look at that. Groups chanted against everything from war to Wall Street. In the meantime, police arrested two suspects in connection with alleged terror threats. That's in addition to three others arrested earlier in a separate case. Investigators say that group plotted to attack President Obama's campaign headquarters in Chicago, the mayor's home and other institutions.

The summit actually got underway with President Obama and the NATO secretary general welcoming leaders from more than 50 countries. Talks will go on tonight and tomorrow mostly about Afghanistan, the pull out of NATO troops and the buildup of Afghan forces.

Also more breaking news to tell you about within the last hour here on CNN. The family of Robin Gibb has confirmed the singer of BeeGees fame has died. According to his Web site, Robin Gibb.com, he passed away today following a long battle with cancer and intestinal surgery. Gibb has battled cancer for a couple of years now. He fought back against colon and liver cancer two years ago but another tumor developed. Robin Gibb's twin brother died of intestinal disorder in 2003. Robin Gibb was 62 years old.

The one man convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing of a Pan Am jetliner has died in Libya. Abdul Basset al Megrahi was 60 years. In 2009, al Megrahi was released from a Scottish prison. Doctors expected him to die soon after from prostate cancer. His release infuriated people from the U.S. to Scotland. The attack killed 270 people, including 189 Americans.

Back now to our breaking news here on CNN that we have been following for you. Protesters in Chicago, clashes with police. And as I said earlier, we're looking at some peaceful pictures now but all hell broke loose in Chicago earlier. And we showed you some of the pictures. We've got the videotape to prove it, and it will be examined not only by police but many others to see, to figure out exactly what's going on.

This happening as a backdrop to the NATO summit just blocks away. Ted Rowlands, our reporter, is on the ground standing by with new information. We'll get to him after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back now live to Chicago where there have been violent protests with police and protesters on the ground. We have seen the videotapes. We have seen it happen live. The police are trying to move these protesters west away from the NATO summit that is going on there with the president and world leaders.

I want to bring in now - we'll get to our reports on the ground I just a moment. But I want to bring in Republican strategist Anna Navarro. Anna, I was going speak to you about a completely different subject matter. I was going to talk to you about Marco Rubio who is going off and I was going to ask you if he is auditioning for the vice presidency, but I want to talk about this because it brings up young people and there are some older people in the crowd, people who are upset with the way the government operates. There are people who are complaining that the government in this instance, the police, too big, because they're stopping them from protesting. All of this in the shadow of the summit where they're trying to deal with war, what happens in Afghanistan. What does this say to you politically as a Republican strategist?

ANNA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, I got to tell you it really doesn't say much to me. I've seen these protests over and over again. I've seen them at every political convention I've been at whether it's Philadelphia, New York, Minneapolis, democrats and Republican conventions, you see these and to tell you the truth, most of the folks who are at the meetings themselves don't even know these are happening. You have to turn on the TV and watch CNN to see the coverage of the protests when you are at the events themselves. But I, you know, I think it's symptomatic of the world we live in. It's their right to protest and it's part of what comes with this kind of event nowadays.

LEMON: The interesting thing is when you have something like this, and there's a difference. I'm not saying that two are equal in any way, so don't get me wrong. When you see people who are demonstrating as you saw with the Tea Party. When you see people who are with Occupy Wall Street, and we heard from some of the people who were saying that they were with an Occupy group in Chicago, unless you move beyond yelling and screaming and shoving and standing in the middle of the street and you affect some sort of political action and legislation, this is all for naught, Anna. Much as the Tea Party has done. The Tea Party people protested peacefully against their government, and boom, they were in office during the next election.

NAVARRO: Well, I think you're absolutely right about that, Don. I've seen the Occupy protesters. Every time I go to Washington, D.C., they're still there in tents in the park. They were there in the middle of winter. They're there now as we approach the middle of summer. I saw them in the middle of winter in New Hampshire. As you say, for example, in D.C., you've got these Occupy protesters who've been there now for over a year. And there's been absolutely no result to their protesting. Listen, we're in a free country. Protesting is part of our right. If it makes them feel better, you know, more power to them.

LEMON: That is absolutely part of - that is a wonderful thing about being an American is that you have the right to protest. What I've been telling people here in the studio and on Twitter. Yes, you have the absolute right to protest. But guess what? You also have the absolute right to get arrested if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. And a police officer happens to say, "Hey, you shouldn't be here. Go on that side of the street and not on this side of the street. Correct, Ana?"

NAVARRO: Absolutely. You know, we are a country of laws. We're a country of freedoms, but we're also a country of laws. For some of these folks, it's a badge of honor to get arrested during some of these protests. Maybe a story that they'll tell their kids at some point in future. So, you know, it is America, Don. It's America 2012.

LEMON: It is America. And we have the right to sit here, you and I on television, and talk about it and look at the live pictures. Ana Navarro, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us. We're going to get back to Chicago live. Our correspondents on the ground in just moments. Don't go anywhere.

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LEMON: Live pictures now again. Again, Chicago. You're looking at the streets of Chicago where there have been some violent protests, some violent clashes between demonstrators and Chicago Police officers. As promised, CNN's Ted Rowlands is there.

Ted, you live in Chicago. You know the area. We're still awaiting word from the Chicago Police. As you said, the police are out there. They're not going to talk to you. Guys in uniform, they're not going to talk to you. They're not approved. They can't do it. But the brass, the brass isn't out there. The mayor, the spoke people aren't out there. They certainly have time to talk. But they're not saying anything about what's going on.

ROWLANDS: Well, actually, the brass is out here. We've seen a lot of the commanders out here from the beginning. And all week long, actually. A lot of the white shirts. If you look out past the blue shirts and the helmets, you see the guys in the white shirts. They have been here in force throughout directing it. They're just not talking to the media at this point.

But an indication that things are going a little bit better. Notice one of the lieutenants is smoking a cigar now. Things have calmed down dramatically since about a half hour to an hour ago where it was utter chaos here. There's a handful of people that are still here. They're up against this railing on the sidewalk. Some of them are laying down here. They seem to be camping out. But as you can see, police don't seem to be too concerned about it (INAUDIBLE).

There is another march going on. I just saw it pass about two blocks away on State Street heading the other direction. There was large police presence following them as well. The big concern now, Don, is as it starts to get dark here tonight, is the fragmentation of these groups going to different places, going to Michigan Avenue, possibly causing problems there with vandalism. Going to different areas of the city in different smaller groups, causing chaos. That's what police are worried about. That's what they're on guard for as - as the sun starts to go down here. All in all, as dramatic as the pictures were, police obviously accomplished their goal. They got them away from the NATO summit three blocks away.

LEMON: I like what you said. You're taking me back. You know when you're there, the blue shirts aren't going to talk. If you want information, go to the white shirts. Because they can talk. Thank you very much.

ROWLANDS: Absolutely.

LEMON: We appreciate that, Ted. Paul Vercammen standing on the street. Paul, what are you seeing from your vantage point?

VERCAMMEN: Well, it's starting to loosen up, Don. And right here, to my left you can see her some of the final protesters who were sealed off by police. They're moving on. I heard what Ted said earlier about how they were keeping an eye on various protesters. You know last night, police say - one of the white shirts, the superintendents said they followed one group of protesters walking around the streets of downtown Chicago until 1:30 a.m. in the morning. So it could be another long haul for police. But right now things are calm. You can look over my shoulder - the riot police - the police in blue helmets in riot gear far outnumber the remaining protesters here about, I'd say, two blocks away from the NATO summit, Don.

LEMON: OK. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

Here's what we want to know. This is what everyone's going to want to know. That video of the police officers just pummeling those demonstrators, how the heck did that happen? That's what we want to know. Did they provoke you to doing that or did you just decide to beat up on those people who were there in the crowd? There's - there's the video right there. Listen, I don't know what went on. But any time someone is beaten like this, it is disturbing to see. I don't know what happened. But it is a terrible incident to have happened when we have so many leaders here. Protests, but, man, don't beat up the protesters.

All right. So I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I'm going to see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "CNN PRESENTS SELLING A MIRACLE" begins in 2 1/2 minutes.

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