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Govt. Approves Weight Loss Pill; Firestorm of Epic Proportions; What Health Care Ruling Means For You; House To Vote On Holder Contempt; Opposition: 35 Killed Today In Syria; 11 Die In Iraq Bombings; Historic Handshake In Peace Process; Democrats Hoping Obamacare Stands; Film Pioneer Dies Of Cancer; Health Care Reform's History Of Failure; Stockton To File For Bankruptcy
Aired June 27, 2012 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
I want to begin with some news. It is just in. We read this and we thought, wow, this is a huge development for the world of medicine. The government signing off on this new pill designed to fight obesity. Yep, you heard that right. This is a weight loss pill. It's a treatment that basically tricks your brain when it comes to eating. And we now have senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen here, you know, explaining how this works.
And so this is the first in like -- something like a decade.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, it has been a long time because drugs like Meridia came on the market, came off the market.
BALDWIN: Yes.
COHEN: So, yes, this is -- this is a big deal.
BALDWIN: It's a big deal. How does it work exactly?
COHEN: It's an appetite suppressant. So it sort of tricks you into thinking that you don't have an appetite, even if you actually do.
BALDWIN: Are there side effects potentially?
COHEN: There are side effects. And I want to -- before I talk about the side effects, I want to talk about how well this works.
BALDWIN: Yes.
COHEN: Because I think this is so -- such an important point, because people think, oh, I'll take a pill and --
BALDWIN: Pop a pill and you're fine.
COHEN: Right. I'll look great in my bikini. Well you might --
BALDWIN: Not so. COHEN: Not necessarily. It depends how really good you want to look in your bikini. So let me give you an example. On average, the people who took this pill -- 7,000 people tried it out -- on average, they went from 220 pounds and lost about 13 pounds. So, starting at 220 and losing 13 pounds, you know, that's good. And their blood pressure went down and their cholesterol went down. And all of that is terrific. But they didn't go from 220 to 150.
BALDWIN: It wasn't a tremendous loss.
COHEN: It wasn't. Right, 13 pounds for someone who weighs 220 pounds is not a big -- it's not a -- it's not -- that's not gigantic. Doctors I talked to are not sort of jumping up and down, like, oh, finally, we nailed it. You know, this is it. They're not saying that.
BALDWIN: Well, we haven't said -- what's the name of the pill?
COHEN: The new pill is Arena.
BALDWIN: Arena.
COHEN: And it's for people who are obese. So, for example, someone who's 5'6", if they're 180 pounds or more, they'd be considered obese. Or they could be -- they don't necessarily have to be obese. They could be very, very overweight and perhaps also have high blood pressure or something else.
You know, doctors are giving these guidelines. You know, don't give it to someone who's just trying to lose five pounds. They're not supposed to be giving it to those types of people. Don't give it to the person who just wants to look a little better for their high school reunion.
Of course, doctors thumb their noses at those guidelines all the time and feel free, you know, and give it to people even who just want to lose five pounds.
BALDWIN: So, if there is someone -- final question -- who's sitting there thinking, great, you know, I really could qualify for, you know, being an obese person. I would love a little bit of help. What do you do, just go to the doctor and ask about this pill Arena?
COHEN: You go to the doctor. You ask about this pill. But I want to put a couple of things into people's minds.
BALDWIN: A couple of asterisks.
COHEN: A couple of asterisks. Exactly.
BALDWIN: Yes.
COHEN: That's a great way to put it. And that is, this was tried out on 7,000 people and the side effects were things like headache and nausea. But once they started trying this pill out in millions of people, they might see that there are some more serious side effects. They night not. But they might. We have seen that happen before. Then when you try it in, you know, thousands of people, it looks fine. When you try it out on bigger groups, you find out, oh, wait a minute, this drug has more problems than we thought. That could happen with this drug too. You and I could be sitting here five years from now going, remember that drug that got approved.
BALDWIN: Right. Right, right, right. So even though the FDA says, you know, it gets the stamp of approval, still, caution, caution, caution.
COHEN: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.
COHEN: Thanks.
BALDWIN: And now to this. Thirty-two thousand people forced out of their homes. Fifteen thousand acres up in flames. Right now these images show what's being quoted as a firestorm of epic proportions. That's a quote directly from the fire chief in Colorado Springs. So take a look at this. These are obviously evening, perhaps morning pictures. Waldo Canyon Wildfire in and around Colorado Springs. Firefighters successfully battle the fire there for three days, but finally saw a number of homes like these just burning last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BROWN, INTERIM CHIEF, COLORADO SPRINGS FIRE DEPT.: There are some homes impacted. There's no question about it. I am absolutely not prepared to release that number. We don't know the number. Again, this is an active fire. It's not even remotely close to being contained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The Waldo Canyon blaze jumped fire lines overnight doubling its size. Let me say that again. Doubled in size overnight. It is reported to be nearly 5 percent contained. High speed winds and thunderstorms could make it grow even more. And crews are calling it explosive. They are describing what they're facing as, like, quote, "being in a convection oven."
Our i-Reporters, who we're so grateful for, for these pictures and video showing us images that look like the sky is on fire. Just look at that orange glow. Our Affiliate out of Denver, KUSA, reports, this is just one -- just one of some 10 different fires threatening homes in Colorado right now. This is another i-Report. Time lapse video of the Flagstaff Fire in Boulder yesterday. The i-Report says his community was one mountain ridge away from disaster.
Chad Myers, he's been watching all these different fires. I know you have more detail on this Waldo Canyon fire as it's getting worse. So, Chad, I want to go to you in just a minute here.
But, first, we have the governor on the phone. Colorado's governor, John Hickenlooper, is on the phone with us from Denver.
Governor, welcome. I'm sorry to have to talk to you under the circumstances. I mean, as we mentioned, your state is battling multiple fires. I know this is unprecedented. I saw you -- I think it might have been this morning -- talking about one specific fire. You talked about how your blood is boiling. You're infuriated. Governor, what were you referring to there?
GOV. JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), COLORADO (via telephone): Well, the question was asked whether -- about the possibility that the Waldo fire down in Colorado Springs was, you know, set maliciously. It was not a lightning bolt or an accident. You know, some stupid fool going out and playing with fire.
BALDWIN: Do we know? Do we know how it started?
HICKENLOOPER: We don't know. It's still under investigation. But there's certainly suspicion out there that we've got some idiot. So, we're obviously working as hard as we can to approach what -- get the real facts and not jump to conclusions. But we're just encouraging everybody to be very, very careful. You know, we ban fireworks any place where there's woodlands or grasslands. And, you know, again, we want to celebrate the Fourth of July. We appreciate how important that celebration is of our nation's freedom. We don't want to limit our freedom in the celebration of the Fourth of July --
BALDWIN: But you have to be careful.
HICKENLOOPER: But at the same time, we've got to be very careful about open fires out here right now.
BALDWIN: Tell me, governor, what you have seen so far with your own eyes. Because, you know, you cover stories like these and it's one thing for us to show these images on television, even though the image -- the cover of the "Denver Post" this morning just kind of makes you do a double take. But for you to see it in person, I'm sure it's surreal.
HICKENLOOPER: Well, I flew down -- I flew down yesterday on a National Guard helicopter over the Colorado Springs fire and it was -- it was like out of a -- you know, somebody put a set together for a film of something of what -- you know what a real disaster might look like. Of course we thought there -- these tall flames coming up were trees, but you knew they were people's homes, garages, sheds and it was, I mean what happened yesterday is one of those rare combinations where you get the high winds. It's been so dry. We've had just a wicked drought this spring. And then we had this fire in dry kinder close to a lot of homes.
BALDWIN: It was a perfect horrible storm, this sort of confluence of events that really made this thing double overnight. I was talking to Chad Myers.
Chad, I just want to bring you in here. Feel free to throw a question to the governor.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Governor, I watched your press conference last night from Colorado Springs. And when you arrived, it was quite civil. Before you arrived, it was a lot less civil. People pointing fingers. People pointing -- asking questions. Who's really in charge here? Is it the government? Is it the state? Is it the county? How can you describe what's going on in this fire fight?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, obviously, the U.S. Fire (ph) Service, who are the finest firefighters in the world, the most -- the best strategic thinkers, they're in charge. And they are coordinating all the resources right now. I talked this morning with General Charles Jacoby, who's the head of NORTHCOM. Also based, coincidentally, in Colorado Springs. But we are standing up a, you know, a mutual control that allows us to be able to look at using military assets more efficiently. So this -- what they call -- this is what they call a dual status command and allows us to work directly with the Department of Defense. And that's going to allow us a bunch of additional military support and manpower.
BALDWIN: Governor, a final question to you. You know, I've been reading all these different articles in Colorado and it seems like the panic really, really ratchet up right around yesterday evening and now into today. Just, finally, what -- really what is your piece of advice for folks who aren't even necessarily in a mandatory evacuation area but, you know, sort of curiously close to the fire? What do you say to them?
HICKENLOOPER: Well, obviously we want people to be careful. And if their -- you know, a lot of people are staying with their friends. And we thank -- I mean, in the west, and especially Colorado, people do come together. And there's been amazingly little finger pointing. I point out, we still got 40 state parks that are beautiful and open. In the state of Colorado, there are 23 million acres of public lands at U.S. Forest Service and BLM (ph) land that, you know, have over 10,000 camp sites all over the state.
The fire affected less than a percent of what our public lands are. So we want people to go on and enjoy the Fourth of July weekend, enjoy their life. Let's not let the fire beat us. We're going to be safe. We're going to beat this fire. The firefighters tell me, two things you always know. Fires always start small. You want to get them as soon as you can. And fires always go out. So, we're going to win this battle. It's going to take some work, but we'll be back.
BALDWIN: And to quote you, if it is some stupid fool who set this thing, I have a feeling you will be behind throwing the book at whoever that might be.
Governor John Hickenlooper, we appreciate your jumping on the line. Best of luck to you. And, of course, amazing crews fighting these fires in Colorado.
Chad, just talk to me a little bit more about the winds because that's really -- it's the winds and the heat, right?
MYERS: The firefighters had no chance yesterday. Normally it's like a wall of, you know, of flames kind of gradually moving in one direction. Last night the winds gusted 65 miles per hour out of a thunderstorm up in Jefferson County. Not even in the same county as this fire. But when the winds blew out of that thunderstorm, the fire, the embers all jumped. They jumped miles ahead. So what the firefighters thought they had a good line, that line wasn't even close. It never had a chance. All of a sudden, that wind continued, blew down into Colorado Springs and a lot of houses burned. I don't know that the number's dozens or hundreds, but it's a lot.
This is an area here. This is just a dramatic picture that we just got in, just go permission to use from the "Denver Post." All of these homes on fire. The trees. The house. You can't take a firefighter or a number of firefighters and protect all of these structures. There are just too many on fire at the same time.
And what I was talking to the governor about, about last night's presser, Brooke, he was -- people were very upset. They said, why can't I just go fight my fire? Because you just can't do that. You just -- even though you want to go help your area --
BALDWIN: Leave it up to the pros.
MYERS: You want to go water down your house, they can't let you do that. They just can't let you in there and put yourself in danger.
BALDWIN: Chad, we're going to keep talking about this coming up next hour. And I want you to join me for that conversation when I talk to a young Colorado mother who has two little ones. Dad is deployed. And she has now evacuated. So we're going to talk to her next hour and see sort of what she's facing there.
Also, just want to let you know, you can find out more -- exactly how you can help those affected. If you're feeling like you want to help, you can. In Colorado, just go to cnn.com/impact. And there we have, you know, lists of different organizations and ways you can help those folks in need. So, again, that is cnn.com/impact.
And a lot more news coming at you today. Watch this.
The countdown is on. In less than 24 hour, President Obama hears the fate of his biggest legislation. A law that changes everyone's health care. And we're taking you behind the scenes.
Plus, history in the making. The queen meets the man who led the group that killed her cousin.
And, cutting off the arm to save the body. A city in California becomes the largest to go for broke. Are more cities next?
The news is now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The battle over health care in the United States has been with us for so long one thing seems so very clear. That being, whatever the decision here, the U.S. Supreme Court announces tomorrow, the fight will continue. You can hear that in what lawmakers are saying really on both sides of the aisle today. First, I want you to hear House Democrat Xavier Becerra.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: The worst outcome we can see is a 5-4 decision, because I think that will go, unfortunately, a long way in confirming this growing belief in the gut of the American people that the Supreme Court no longer cares so much about the Constitution, it cares more about politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And now Republican House Speaker John Boehner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Be clear and I'll make it clear one more time. If the court does not strike down the entire law, the House will move to repeal what's left of it. Obamacare is driving up the cost of health care and making it harder for small businesses to hire new workers. Our focus has been the economy and it will continue to be the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Shortly after 10:00 tomorrow morning, we're going to know whether all or part of the president's health care plans survives. That's when the Supreme Court is set to announce its ruling. And I want to bring in CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, to sort of talk through really, you know, what's on the line with all of this. And I want to begin with what happens if -- if this entire law, the whole thing, is tossed out. What happens to the people who have already started benefitting, like the young adult still on their parents insurance? What happens? Do insurance companies -- can they just drop them?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they can. I mean, because there's no law mandating that they don't have to do that anymore. So, now, we've been doing some reporting on this. Brooke, as you know, we've talked to some of these insurance providers to tray and get an idea, you know, what's their plan if the law is completely overturned. And some of the insurance providers have told us, look, we may not change, you know, things dramatically, at least in the short run.
So, for example, the example you brought up about people who are up to the age of 26 staying on their parents plan, they may keep things like that in effect. They may keep things like nondiscriminatory clauses for children, so you don't charge children higher insurance premiums because they are already sick. But again, your question was, what will they do. They don't have to do any of the things that the law originally intended, Brooke.
BALDWIN: There is a chance, you know, the whole thing could be struck down. The individual mandate itself could just be struck down, which then, you know, leaves a lot more, though, of that legislation. But could also be, you know, pre-existing conditions could be tossed out. If that happens, what's left? GUPTA: Well, you know, there's some 450 provisions in this bill. And I think I told you, Brooke, one of the times that we were talking before, I read this bill twice.
BALDWIN: Two thousand pages, right?
GUPTA: That's right, in terms of -- it was like going to medical school again, I'll tell you. But I heard it twice. And there's a lot of things in the bill. And it's worth pointing some of these things pout because let's say, as you point out, what happens is the mandate's gone and the discrimination on pre-existing conditions is gone. There are some important things that I think are worth mentioning that might still stay in the bill and could be helpful.
If a person buys health care insurance and then they become sick, as things stood before, they could be dropped from their insurance plan at the time they became sick. It sounds outrageous, I think, to a lot of people, but that was possible. That may still be part of this.
No lifetime limits. And, I'll tell you, Brooke, as a doctor, if patients -- if they have chronic disease -- I've taken care of some of these patients -- you can get to your lifetime limit very, very quickly. No co-pays on preventive care. So try and encourage people to go get screened and take care of them -- their prevention. Employers having to provide insurance. And then again, at the bottom, young adults up to 26 staying on their parents plan.
I'll add to that as well, Brooke, you know, I talked to a lot of small business owners and they say, you know, they're much more likely to hire people in their mid-20s because they know they can get their -- those people can stay on their parents' plan up until age 26. It's attractive to these business owners.
BALDWIN: That's a factor into hiring them?
GUPTA: Yes, because they don't have to provide health insurance now for them.
BALDWIN: Wow.
GUPTA: That's an additional cost;. Because they're staying on their parents' plan, that's not something they have to pay for. So, it changes a lot of things. It has a lot of ripple effects depending on exactly what happens tomorrow.
BALDWIN: It's incredible. Tomorrow morning will be huge. We will be all over it. And, Sanjay, don't go too far. I know we're going to be talking next hour because you -- just because you don't -- if you do have health insurance, did doesn't guarantee you're actually going to use it. So we're going to talk to Sanjay about your personal responsibility to your own health care. That's next hour.
It has never been done before, but it might happen tomorrow. The country's attorney general, Eric Holder, could be held in contempt of Congress and Republicans are making a big, big move. Tomorrow is a huge day, folks. A quick reminder for you. You can keep watching us here at CNN on your mobile phone. If you're out and about, headed to work, you can also watch us on CNN live straight from your desktop. Just go to cnn.com/tv.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: New polls are out today. Have you seen them? They show President Obama leads Mitt Romney in three key battleground states. Check it out for yourself. You have Florida. Obama leads 45 percent to Romney's 41. Ohio, his margin is 47 and 38. And in Pennsylvania, it is 45 to 39.
And our new CNN national poll of polls shows President Obama ahead 48 percent to Governor Romney's 44. A poll of polls is an average of four national polls taken over the past two weeks.
And an election year showdown set to happen tomorrow on Capitol Hill. The House of Representatives is ready to vote as to whether or not they want to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for withholding documents related to that botched Fast and Furious operation. That was the program that was supposed to be tracking how guns were sold in the United States and how they made it to Mexico used by drug cartels, criminals there. Joe Johns is going through all this sort of -- the twists and turns before tomorrow's big vote. He's in Washington.
And so, Joe, we know that the White House, the DOJ, they met with House Republican senior aids. What came out of the meeting?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not too much as far as we can tell. They came over with some ideas that they wanted to hash around. Apparently the Republicans rejected it. And now it looks like they're moving full speed ahead.
An example of that right now, I want to show you a live picture of the House Rules Committee. This is where they go to sort of lay out the procedure before they go to the floor. There in the foreground is Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland. He's the top Democrat on the Oversight Committee. And to his right is Congressman Darrell Issa. They're meeting in the Rules Committee to try to hash out how they proceed for the contempt vote tomorrow. Of course, Mr. Cummings is certainly opposed to it and Darrell Issa had been pushing it the entire way. So it's just one more sign, Brooke, that, yes, the House of Representatives is moving forward on this historic vote. The House speaker earlier today talking with reporters said -- sounded very much like he was committed to it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: We're going to proceed. We've given them ample opportunity to comply, even as late as yesterday. The White House sat down with some of our staff to outline what they would be willing to do. Unfortunately, they're not willing to show the American people the truth about what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: So this case, "Fast and Furious," the gun walking operation, sending guns across the border to try to catch cartel members, is a real embarrassment for the United States and it certainly just seems like it's going to get worse tomorrow with this vote.
Brooke.
BALDWIN: It was an embarrassment. At the same time, though, huge news last week. It was the first time the president, you know, used his executive privilege upon Attorney General Eric Holder. Despite that, this vote is going on in the House. So give me a little context to the vote. Is it more, you know, substantive or is it really just election year politics at play?
JOHNS: As you might imagine, it all depends on who you talk to. The people over at the White House have said again and again, including the press secretary at the White House, saying just today that this was nothing more than politics. Everybody accepts the fact that it was a botched operation.
But if you talk to Republicans, they say there are things that they need to get to the bottom of. They need to decide if there's a reason to create new laws. Still, if you look at the involvement of some of the outside groups, like the National Rifle Association, for example, they have certain vested interests, including fighting gun control, and they believe that they are doing what's in the best interest of their organization by going after Eric Holder in this way. In fact, they're telling their members and they're telling members in Congress who support the NRA, that they want to see them vote for contempt tomorrow, Brooke.
BALDWIN: And, you know, I know folks were saying this is just going to be along party lines. But not so. There are some Democrats now coming forward saying they're going to hold the attorney general in contempt as well. Of course it's a Republican majority in the House. We'll see how it shakes out.
Joe Johns, thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
A television station bombed. The attackers ransacked, destroyed studios. You're going to hear their target.
Also, history is made with a single handshake and a nod. The queen meets the man who led the group that killed her cousin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Seven people were killed today when Syrian opposition forces bombed a television station. This is according to the state run news agency. The news channel supports the Bashar al Assad regime. The same regime accused of slaughtering thousands of people. Protesters over the past year and a half.
At least 35 people were killed in violence across the country according to opposition groups. President Assad said just yesterday that Syria is in a state of war. The U.N. now says more than 10,000 Syrians have been killed since violence began last year and 1.5 million Syrians need quote/unquote, "urgent humanitarian assistance."
Eleven people were killed today in the latest wave of bombings in Iraq. In fact, in one attack near Baghdad, a bomb exploded in a home wounding three family members there.
When neighbors rushed in to help, a second bomb went off killing eight more people. Another bombing inside a home in Western Baghdad put the lives of three women there. Nearly 180 people have died in Iraq since the beginning of this month.
It was just one single moment, but this handshake was historic, this historic gesture today in Northern Ireland. Look at this, Queen Elizabeth II, in green, notice meeting in Belfast with Martin McGuinness.
He is the former commander of the Irish Republican Army, the IRA. Here it is 14 years after the end of a conflict that claimed 3,500 lives including that of the queen's cousin in a bombing.
Her highness smiled, her majesty smiled, but did not speak during the greeting. Afterwards, reporters asked McGuinnes how it was to meet the queen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN MCGUINNESS, NORTHERN IRELAND DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER: Good. It went really well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How was it to meet the queen?
MCGUINNESS: Very nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Reporters shouting questions at him. Our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson is in Belfast for this historic handshake. We're going to talk to him about it, really significance here, coming up next hour.
Here at home, as Americans wait to hear whether there are health care changes or not. We're going to know tomorrow morning. More people say they are against Obamacare.
You're about to hear from one Democrat who admits a big error. I'm going to ask him he's got a plan B should this law fail?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: A digs is decision is looming one that affects every single person in this country. By this time tomorrow, the U.S. Supreme Court will decide if the Affordable Care Act lives, if it dies or survives in fragments.
It really is the cornerstone of the Obama presidency, a signature issue for the Democrat Party. So I want to talk to a Democrat. We bring in Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen. He is the top Democrat on the House.
Congressman, it's nice to see you again.
REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: Brooke, good to be with you.
BALDWIN: I know you have said that the chance that the Supreme Court upholds this entire law is better than 50 percent. Honestly, Congressman, that doesn't sound very optimistic.
HOLLEN: Well, I am optimistic, but of course, nobody knows what they are going to say. As you indicated, we'll know in about 24 hours.
But if you look at statements made by people like the top lawyer in the Reagan administration, the solicitor general, he indicated that he thought it was very clear that this law was constitutional under the commerce clause.
BALDWIN: But let me go back to you and this 50 percent. Do you still stand by that? You're about 50/50 confident?
HOLLEN: No, I think there's over a 50 percent chance that the court will uphold this law entirely and I think it would be very unlikely that they would toss the whole thing out.
So I'm on balance optimistic, but of course, if we all knew what the answer would be then we wouldn't be so anxious about what the decision will come out.
BALDWIN: That's right. I'm sure you've seen the numbers. Let me run through this for our viewers. The NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, more Americans, 37 percent would be happy to see the health care reform law declared unconstitutional than would be disappointed.
So when you look at that number, Congressman Van Hollen, 37 percent, you're on the wrong side of public opinion.
HOLLEN: Well, unfortunately as with lots of things in Washington, it's been easier to demagogue this than to present the full facts about the law.
As you remember, we had all this misinformation campaign. We heard about death panels. We heard that this was a government takeover of health care, which the fact finding group, the non- partisan "Politifact" called the lie of the year in 2010.
And what you find is that when Americans are asked about the specific provisions that are on this bill. They like them. They like the fact that kids won't be discriminated against because they have asthma or diabetes or pre-existing conditions.
BALDWIN: Well, if you do look at the numbers, which we have actually 55 percent said losing it, losing the individual mandate wouldn't make that much of a difference. To your point about Republicans and the death panels and being the biggest lie of the year, I mean, that's just one side of the aisle. You have your party, the Democrats, and folks who have said the Democrats could have done a better job explaining it. Where did you go wrong?
HOLLEN: Well, I do think Democrats collectively and others could have done a better job. I think one of the main points that's been missed is the fact that Republicans just a few years ago said that the frame work, the approach that we took in the Affordable Care Act was the right way to go for the country.
That's why the Obamacare legislation, the Affordable Health Care Act is modelled after Romney care because in Massachusetts, Governor Romney understood that if you want to provide coverage to everybody so no one is denied coverage because of pre-existing condition, you need to get everybody in the risk pool.
If you want to bring down the costs and avoid people free riding on the system, you need to ask everybody to share responsibility. So I think we could have made those arguments better.
And made it clear that this had been a Republican idea to begin with and one just a few years ago they said not only was constitutional but the right policy.
BALDWIN: Well, let's talk about Obamacare as we know it and as you mentioned the big decision comes down tomorrow. If, again, this is the if, if the court strikes down this entire health care law, the whole thing, there is no plan B, is there?
HOLLEN: Well, Brooke, I really think that the chances of that are very small. We will know within a very few hours.
BALDWIN: Roll with me, Congressman. Roll with me. If the whole things is struck down, is there a plan B?
HOLLEN: Well, this was the Democratic proposal. I mean, ironically you're asking me that question when the Republicans said not only do they want to get rid of this law, but they said they will replace it, but they've got nothing to replace it with so far.
They've gone so far as to say that if the court strikes down part of it, they will work legislatively to abolish the rest. So I would say that in the unlikely event that the court strikes down part of it, because I really think the chances of striking down the whole thing are very remote that we will obviously work hard to protect what's left.
Things like making sure that families can keep their kids on their insurance policy. Things like making sure that seniors don't have to pay more out of pocket for prescription drugs.
But we will obviously have to preserve the important parts that are left. But again, I want to be very clear, Brooke, I think the Supreme Court will follow the advice of the top lawyer in the Reagan administration and uphold the constitutionally of the whole law.
BALDWIN: And I do just want to let you know and our viewers know, I asked that same question to plan B to our member of Congress, a Republican next hour. We just got to be fair.
Congressman Chris Van Hollen, we appreciate it. We'll see what happens tomorrow morning, shall we? As we mentioned next hour, I'm going to talk with Republican Congressman Ben Quayle. He wants Obama care to be repealed, but are the Republican alternatives too vague? We're going to go there at 3:30 Eastern Time.
She wrote the movies you watch. I know I've watched them over and over again. Classics, "When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless in Seattle, Silkwood" and recently, "Julia, Julia." Writer, director, Nora Ephron kept her sickness quiet.
And our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen is going to explain, next.
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BALDWIN: The tributes and the memories are pouring in for a Hollywood great who was known for her contributions not on camera but behind it.
Screenwriter, Nora Ephron, died yesterday at the age of 71 and among her Oscar nominated work, she had "When Harry Met Sally, Sleepless In Seattle."
Fellow film director, Mike Nichols said this in a statement, quote, "Nora was so funny and interesting that we didn't notice she was necessary. She's absolutely irreplaceable," he said.
Her family says she died from cancer. I want to talk to senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen a little more about how she passed. It's surprising to a lot of people. As I mentioned, 71, it seems too young.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It seems too young. It's so sad. You know, we forgot to say she's an author. Her scribble inspired me to become a journalist. It's such an awful thing.
She had a blood cancer. The bone marrow, which is where her blood cells are made, it starts making sort of bad cells. You know, cells that really hurt the immune system and these bad cells start to displace the good cells. It's very, very difficult to treat.
BALDWIN: Difficult to treat. So the survival rate --
COHEN: Yes, the survival rate is very low. When you look at people who are diagnosed with it and look at them about five years later, only about one out of four is still alive. So that's a low survival rate, one out of four is still alive.
BALDWIN: There were reports that she had mylodysplasia. What happened? Did it just suddenly advance? COHEN: Right, it's where pre-leukemia can become leukemia. It doesn't always but in her case, it did. So for six years she knew she had a condition that might become cancer.
BALDWIN: So sad.
COHEN: And I don't think she discussed it very much. I'm a huge fan so I follow her life.
BALDWIN: I had no idea. Elizabeth, thank you.
COHEN: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Health care reform, we're talking about it here. Several presidents tried it. Democrats and Republicans, and now the effort of another president hang in the balance. What happens to President Obama if the Supreme Court tomorrow morning rules against him?
Presidential historian, Douglas Brinkley, has some thoughts, next.
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BALDWIN: While we wait for the Supreme Court to announce its historic decision on health care reform, you may be surprised to know how long the United States has actually been debating this very issue.
I want to bring in presidential historian, Doug Brinkley, is on the phone with me from vacation. So Doug, we thank you for calling in.
You know, a lot of people think that this battle began when he heard, you know, Hillary Clinton was first lady. But it so totally goes back further than that.
I know right after World War II, you had Teddy Roosevelt try it. I want to go back to Harry Truman, right, because he proposed something. Tell me what he proposed, Doug, and obviously didn't go down very well.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN (via telephone): Yes, you're correct. Literally 100 years ago in 1912, Roosevelt ran a third party and promoted universal health care. He wanted everybody to have health care provisions. He didn't win. He came in second.
He was beaten by Woodrow Wilson, but it's become a drum beat for the so-called progressive movement in the 20th Century America particularly adopted by the Democratic Party of FDR who had so many great new deal successes and of course, Social Security.
Harry Truman was trying to do something very similar in ways to this Affordable Care Act to President Obama. He fell short as have all Democratic presidents.
Lyndon Johnson was able to get Medicare and Medicaid through, which are very historic. But not an Affordable Care Act like this and Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton in the 1990s tried hard to accomplish what President Obama did.
BALDWIN: Let me jump in. You're fast forwarding too quickly. Let me take you back a little bit. Let's go back to Richard Nixon. I want to just a little sound. This is what we found. We dug up in our archives from former adviser to President Nixon. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUART ALTMAN, FORMER NIXON ADVISER: Richard Nixon, which I happen to work for put forth a very comprehensive plan, which looks a lot in structure like the Obama plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A comprehensive plan. What did that entail?
BRINKLEY: It's very similar to this. Richard Nixon is considered the last of the new deal presidents. I mean, he actually did clean air and water act and created the Environmental Protection Agency and for health care.
Because the American people believed the federal government had answers all the way from Franklin Roosevelt to Ronald Reagan. It's in the Reagan revolution of the 1980s that you seeing a kind of turn back of if you like great society measures and Nixon was part of that era when this kind of belief that government could help in the air.
BALDWIN: We have some old recordings from Ronald Reagan. Let me play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONALD REAGAN: We do not want socialized medicine. One of these days, you and I, are going to spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in America when men were free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So that was actually back in the '60s. Those words still a corner stone. It seems like of the Republican opposition today when it comes to Obama care.
BRINKLEY: Well, right there. That's the slogan for the Tea Party Movement. That's why we live in the age of Ronald Reagan in the Republican land. Republicans love what Reagan said there and they have been labelling now for years somewhat effectively calling so called Obama care socialism.
The Democrats have been saying no, it isn't. It's Americanism. It's in the grain of T.R. and Harry Truman and so tomorrow's Supreme Court decision is really monumental.
It will tell us if you're living in the mild belief of the federal government helping people or whether we're really living in an age of Reagan where the Supreme Court has become so conservative that most Americans and at least the Supreme Court feels less government is good.
BALDWIN: And just to point out, we're talking -- I know a lot of Democrats the person who really proposed this idea of a mandate was Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich. So we'll see how this shakes out tomorrow. Doug Brinkley, we appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your vacation. Thanks for calling in.
BRINKLEY: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Any moment now, Congress will honor the very first African- American Marines who trained during World War II. They are about to receive the highest honor for a civilian. We'll show you that live.
Plus I'm going to speak live with the city manager of the largest city to ever file for bankruptcy in the United States. The question, of course, is does this mean other American cities could be next? Don't miss it.
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BALDWIN: If there's a city that represents the unforgiving economic cycle of boom to bust, it's Stockton, California just about 80 miles from San Francisco.
When times were good, Stockton was living pretty high. Soaring home prices, a lot of tax money leading to rich pension and retiree health benefits for city workers and to a new arena, a new city hall.
But, here's the but, the housing market collapse hit Stockton very, very hard. Tax revenue plummeted forcing the city to the brink.
So the news today, Stockton is now officially the largest American city to look for relief under bankruptcy laws. Bob Deis is the Stockton city manager.
Mr. Deis, just having to finally take this step, how tough was that for you?
BOB DEIS, CITY MANAGER, STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Well, it's a very difficult decision and move. It's not something that I was trained for in my career. It's not something I'm proud of. It's really the only option for Stockton.
BALDWIN: The only option. When do you officially file for bankruptcy?
DEIS: We will file before the close of this week so possibly on Thursday or Friday.
BALDWIN: I imagine this was the kind of thing where you sort of ran down your different options, alternatives, and determined this was best for the city. Would you qualify this as a last resort move?
DEIS: Absolutely. The irony is when I came here two years ago, I had lots of business people telling me you'll have to file bankruptcy. My response was I can't do that legally or ethically unless I can prove to myself and the attorneys this is the only and last option. We finally reached that after a couple of years.
BALDWIN: So what was the tipping point?
DEIS: The tipping point is we tried everything that we have some legal control over, and that wasn't enough and we've made some very, very difficult service reduction, staffing reductions.
We made some very difficult compensation reductions and labor contracts, but revenues keep going down because the recession is still with us.
So what's left is spreading the pain to the creditors and retirees. In order to do that, chapter nine and the protection of Chapter Nine will help us.
BALDWIN: You mentioned feeling the pain. I know there was a difficult city council meeting last night in Stockton where citizens, you know, really voice their opinions. How will the citizens be affected? Which services will be cut?
DEIS: Well, the very reason why we're filing for chapter nine protection is to protect services. So the average citizen is not going to see any change in services.
BALDWIN: No change?
DEIS: That's correct. That's the only benefit of filing chapter nine. The council has decided we cannot cut anymore in public safety. We had to cut in places other than public safety services.
It's been primarily suspending payments with bondholders and greatly reducing the retiree medical retirement program and ultimately eliminating it a year from now.
BALDWIN: OK, Bob Deis, I appreciate your calling in. We'll have to see if there's a ripple effect. Stockton now could be another town or city down the road. Bob, thank you so much, city manager of Stockton, California.
More news unfolding right now. Rapid fire, roll it. Debby is now officially a tropical depression leaving 26 inches of rain in some parts of Florida. The state emergency response team says three people did die from this storm, 7,000 home, commercial properties remain under evacuation order in Pasco County, Florida.
I want you to look at some surveillance video, this woman trying to snatch a purse from another woman walking through the parking lot. You see them going back and forth.
The victim here she is, dragged around until she's able to kick the suspect off who gets away sans purse. Police in Massachusetts looking for your help in I.Ding this potential purse snatcher.
Fourth of July just around the corner, have you wonder what would happen if fireworks stand caught on fire? Well, mystery solved.
They sound like they're having fun. This is an early 4th of July for folks in Chester, West Virginia on Saturday. Fortunately, no one was hurt.
