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Andy Griffith Dies at 86; Systematic Torture in Syria Continues; Murdoch To Romney: Dump Your Advisers; Minds Made Up In Ohio; Tom Cruise And Scientology; Police Raid Nicolas Sarkozy's Offices

Aired July 03, 2012 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: First, he was the ultimate TV good guy. From a small town sheriff to silver haired attorney, Andy Griffith was a mainstay for decades starring in the show back in the '50s and Matlock until '80s. Today he died at the age of 86.

His son and on TV and now film director Ron Howard tweeted this. Andy Griffith, his pursuit of excellence and the joy, he tool in creating served generations and shaped my life. I'm forever grateful. RIP Andy.

Griffith appeared on CNN in 2003 on "LARRY KING LIVE" talking about the system of his '50s series.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: Your opinion, Don Knots was the key to the success of that show. Would you elaborate?

ANDY GRIFFITH, ACTOR: I think he was. Because in the beginning I was supposed to be -- Don wasn't part of the picture and I was supposed to be funny and tell funny stories about the people in Mayberry. And when Don joined the show, by the second episode, I knew that Don should be funny and I should play straight form.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Long time CNN host, Larry King joins me live now by telephone from Los Angeles and we also have Paul Campbell who co- starred with Andy Griffith in a 2009 movie.

Larry, let me start with you because you were one of the first names that popped up as the news crossed our computer that Andy Griffith's died. How many interviews had you done with him? How well did you know him?

KING (via phone): I knew him pretty well. It started way back when I was doing radio shows in Miami. I had him on my radio show. I had him on television in Miami. When I did a national radio show on the mutual network he was a special guest. And we had him on CNN the last time. It was ballad guess in 2004.

He was always responsive. He was a wonderful guest because he answered the question you asked and he responded in kind. He was also I think an extraordinarily talented actor way beyond just the roles he did on television. He did major movies. He had an academy award nomination. He did a major play on Broadway, "No Time for Sergeants." He did one of funniest comedy albums ever made called, "what it was football." He was a multitalented, kind of genius at his craft. A very special man.

BANFIELD: And a last of special breath as well. The gentleman actor, the guy everybody really likes to like.

KING: You're right. He played only one evil character in that film I mentioned in which he got an academy award nomination. He played a television host who got too powerful and began to control things. He is a man of God. His come up in the end. I think that's the only time he played anyone evil. It was hard to imagine him being evil. I thought Matlock was wonderful old man. It was based, by the way, on a lawyer Percy Foreman in Houston and tried cases a lot like Matlock did with that homes bon attitude appealing to jury that way.

He was very special guy, Andy Griffith. And I think deserves more due than he got. Macy, the Matlock sings. But, he was much more well-rounded than just the guy with the fishing pole and the little kid and the assistant and the aunt.

BANFIELD: So, is that insight as to why he was so popular spanning the generations? And you're the perfect person to ask this because the thousands upon thousands of guests you've had have also stand at same career that Andy Griffith had. He was as famous in the '60s and he was in the '80s and it seemed as well-liked.

KING: You're right. He spanned the decades, you know. Frank Sinatra once said, there is a lot to be said for lawn Jelly bee. You know, if you can be in front of the public for as many years as Andy Griffith in many roles and many passage and keep lasting and keep staying popular, the public tells you the answer.

Now, the public is the best responded. They'll tell you whether you're liked or not. And Andy Griffith is one of those people you would have to go beyond liked. I would say he was a beloved American. People loved him. How do you not like Andy Griffith? That longevity stands on its own.

BANFIELD: Let me bring in Paul Campbell who starred alongside Andy Griffith back on 2009 for a movie called "Play the Game." The significance of this is it was Andy Griffith's last film. Paul, can you hear me?

PAUL CAMPBELL, CO-STARRED WITH GRIFFITH, PLAY THE MONEY: Yes, I can.

BANFIELD: So, you played his grandson, correct?

CAMPBELL: I did. Yes.

BANFIELD: Walk me through what it's like. You got a special place in history having been in the last film of how you heard Larry King describe this man as an icon. CAMPBELL: Yes. You know, I think I've been working as an actor for ten years. I think that film is probably still stands out as one of the most special experiences of my career. Andy was everything I wanted him to be and more. You know, he was a gentleman. And really was. And he was one of the finest human beings that I've ever met, ever had the pleasure of working with (INAUDIBLE).

He was one of the most kinds, gentle, charming, thoughtful men that I've ever known. It was so wonderful to work with him because he brought such a wealth of experience. He also had such a beautiful energy that he brought to everything to his relationship with people to work. Everyone was just such a joy and inspiration to know him.

BANFIELD: Larry King just one quick thought. How do you think this is going to reverberate through Hollywood today? We've already seen the tweets of Ron Howard and those of his ill coming in.

KING: This is lasting thing. I don't know the funeral plans. I imagine there would be a major memorial he started down. I cons are one of a kind. And the best thing can be said about him, you're not going to see his likes again.

BANFIELD: That's well put. Larry King and Paul Campbell, thank you both for your thoughts.

CAMPBELL: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Nice to talk to you, Larry.

At least three more days as we continue on top stories of sweltering heat for the millions of people without power across this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Been very, very hot. We're not getting a relief in the liquid form. And people are in dire straits, really.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All these people don't have nothing. It makes you want to sit down and cry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: People are simply trying to beat the heat any way they can. We're going to touch on that story. We're also going to take you live out to Colorado where a critical weapon in the battle against wildfires is now back up in the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Finally got some good news to report along the fire lines in Colorado where firefighters are starting to get the upper hand in the deadly Waldo Canyon fire. The homeland security secretary Janet Napolitano and also the agriculture secretary, Tom Vilsack are both in Colorado Springs today. This is the area that's been hardest hit. Take a look at your pictures on your screen. Now, the survey of the damage is being done, one of the worst fires in the history of the state of Colorado.

That's where we find CNN's Martin Savidge. He is live there, today.

So Martin, the very first thing I want to ask you about is the fleet of c-130s that have been grounded. We didn't know how long they were going to be grounded for after deadly accidents. But now, we have some good news in terms of the arsenal that firefighters can use to continue fighting these fires.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. The c- 130s are now able to fly again. We haven't seen them. We haven't seen them for a couple of days even fired to the grounding. They have a bomb that's called the modular airborne fire fighting systems maps. It's got a big long acronym.

It is a system that essentially you load on c-130 and it can put about 3,000 pounds of fire retardant, dropping it from the level of 150 feet per a quarter mile at about 60 hour spread. So, it's a very effective tool especially for laying down that fire retardant which access a barrier stopping the plane as they continue to spread out from the fire.

So, it's good news. But the other good news is that they have been very aggressive here on the ground. And it's those fire crews that have the fire at least 70 percent contained. We expect that number to go up by the end of the day today. They've had pretty good weather conditions. Temperatures are down. Winds have been down. Humidity levels slightly elevated. Those are all good things when it comes to fighting a fire.

So, the good news is it looks like they could have it fully contained by this weekend -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Wow. Fully contained by this weekend. And what would that mean for the 3,000 people who have been, remain under evacuation while tens of thousands have been able to go back to their homes or what's left of them?

SAVIDGE: Right. It's going to be an extra relief, of course. And the other thing is that I should point out that contained does not mean the fire is out. It still could have the possibility to flare up again. And if you have significant winds, embers could be lifted for miles and triggering other fire. But it's a big step in keeping the fire in check.

And as you say for many, many people it's going to mean they go back home. They'll have to watch this thing for a long time. It's likely to be smoldering and burning for weeks. Some suggest maybe even for months in some areas.

BANFIELD: As somebody out there said it is like a tiger in a cage with a door open.

So Martin Savidge, keep an eye on that for us, if you will. Martin, reporting live for us out of Colorado Springs, thank you.

Day by day the death toll inside of Syria just keeps going up. You have seen the violent video. And now, new pictures, new reports, torture, not just any kind of torture, some of the worst you will hear of. How widespread is this and what does it mean for Assad?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Allegations of torture in Syria have come to us up until now in disturbing dribs and drabs. Take for instance, this video was shot within the past week in was ravage city of Hama. The man on your screen says these marks on his back were caused by blows that were delivered by his own government, by the Syrian armed forces.

But now, we have a lot more to report. A respected human rights organization has nailed down some of the details, excruciating details in fact.

Here is a report from CNN's Ivan Watson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Basat al reeh," "Dulab," "Falaqa," Arabic names for torture techniques that former prisoners and security officers say are systematically used by government security forces across Syria.

OLE SOLVANG, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH RESEARCHER: We have documented the use of torture in 27 detention facilities scattered across Syria and, you know, what we found is that torture is widespread and systematic.

WATSON: A new report published by the group human rights watch maps out dozen of detention facilities where prisoners say they have been routinely tortured. Human rights watch calling it the torture archipelago.

SOLVANG: It's a network of torture center or torture chambers that the authorities are using to intimidate, to punish and people who dare oppose the government.

WATSON: Human rights watch interviewed victim, some of whom were only children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE KID (through text): On the third and last thing they took me in for questioning they pulled out my nails with pliers or something like a screwdriver.

WATSON: These testimonies are very similar to those gathered by CNN over the last 15 months. This opposition activist from Latakia (ph), says security forces beat him after handcuffing and blind folding him when he was arrested in April of 2011. The torture continued throughout his 40-day detention.

They used the car tire technique and "basat al reeh." They threw cold water on their naked bodies and they also urinated on us, he said.

Torture victim accounts matched those of former torturers like this former secret police officer. He defected months ago and joined the rebel free Syrian army.

(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WATSON: Human rights watch isn't just documenting abuses, it's also naming and shaming. Publishing names and ranks of commanders of individual detention centers.

SOLVANG: By indicating the names and identifying the people responsible for these detention facilities, we're really putting them on notice that somebody will have to answer for these violations.

WATSON: Violations that the Syrian government routinely denies, but the evidence being gathered in reports like this one by human right watch is being prepared for that day when the dust finally settles in Syria. A day when many hope those accused of crimes against humanity will be brought to justice before an international court of law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And Ivan Watson joins me live now from Syria's neighbor to the northeast. He is in Istanbul, Turkey.

That last line in the report you just delivered is what I want to ask you about, Ivan, because this is hard evidence from human rights watch. This is hard evidence of crimes against humanity which could leave the government and its leader leaders and its president of Syria in a very precarious situation when it comes to exposure, legal exposure.

What are people saying about the possibility of ever seeing Bashar al-Assad at the human - at the international criminal court?

WATSON: Well, certainly, we're not there yet. I mean, he is still ruling Damascus and Aleppo. The much of the country side is not strictly in government control. The rebels do have control of law. Large chunks of territory, the fighting is still going on.

But, what is remarkable is that in this conflict as opposed to prior ones, not only are the human rights research groups like human rights watch, but also the opposition activists are all actively from day one gathering information, gathering the names of the dead. Those who claim they have been tortured and detained summarily and we've had the United Nations stepping in declaring that the Syrian government is effectively committing crimes against humanity more than a year ago and compiling evidence.

And we have the international criminal court, which was created about ten years ago. It has started operating it recently and international tribunals. Now, that we are naming names in reports like this, it has to be starting to raise awareness and concerns among those who are carrying out the worst atrocities that that day could come to them as well.

They could be facing trial, the way some of those war criminals from the Vulcan wards have been forced to do in recent months even, (INAUDIBLE). People like this who were terrifying figures in Vulcan wards a decade ago.

BANFIELD: No, not just that. I mean, we got some really recent evidence from the sentencing of Charles Taylor of Liberia too. So maybe some lessons learned there.

Ivan Watson, thanks very much. Appreciate that.

Here are some new breaks.

In critical NATO supply lines between Pakistan and Afghanistan, they have been shut down for months but not anymore. They're soon about to be re-opened but guess what, not without a watch. Yes, al Qaeda has something to do with this one. What does this mean to our troops on the ground, relations between our two countries and increased security risks? It's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We have this just in to CNN.

The Taliban based in Pakistan are threatening to attack NATO supply trucks, this according to a report from Reuters. This is all happening quickly because we only just got the announcement today that Pakistan would re-open the supply lines into Afghanistan. So, there hasn't been any truck on those supply lines for quite some time.

In NASA comes today, they are going to be back on those roads and the Taliban jumps to let us know exactly what they have planned. Of course, this -- the closure was because of an accidental air strike that killed Pakistani soldiers on the border with Afghanistan last November.

Today's announcement though, regardless of the threat, means that NATO supplies can, once again, enter Afghanistan through Pakistan. Follow those green lines on your honor screen. It will show exactly the route that they take. They haven't been able to use this route because of that incident back in November. It's been a long time. It's been very troublesome as well.

Pipes like fuel and armored vehicles for our troops have been stymied in terms of trying to get into our troops. Many of them have been sitting there. Look at this, all covered in burlap and tarp for months on end, unable to get to where they need to go.

Let's bring in Jill Dougherty, our foreign affairs correspondent.

So, this is a big deal, and it really hinged for a long time on one very important word. Explain.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. One very important word, amazing, isn't it? Sorry. And that is the word that held up for basically seven months of standoff. Would the United States say it was sorry for the troops to Pakistani who died. It was not intentional that they should die. That was not an attack that the U.S. tried to carry out, but it did happen.

And the Pakistanis were angry. They were also concerned that it would look back internally if they were, I guess you could say, have it insulted by the United States without this.

So, after seven months, lot of negotiations, et cetera, the United States, namely secretary of state Hillary Clinton issued a statement. And in that statement she does used the word, we're sorry for the losses suffered by the Pakistani military.

But I can tell you, actually, that here at the state department during the briefing, the press secretary was asked, how do you define that? Is this an apology?

Let's listen to how she explained all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTORIA NULAND, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: As the statement makes clear, there were mistakes made on both sides that led to the tragic loss of life. And we are both sorry for those.

DOUGHERTY: We are both sorry though on the next page, that sounds like we're sorry for what the terrorists did to us, right?

NULAND: Again, without parsing the statement, I think the intent here is that we are both sorry for the losses suffered by both our countries in this fight against terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOUGHERTY: So, two uses of the word sorry. And that's diplomacy. I mean, you have to say it. But it's super important for the United States to get all of that equipment in and don't forget as the troops come out, get it out of Afghanistan.

BANFIELD: The withdrawal, critical to our plan to finally draw down out of that country and that supply line is critical.

Jill Dougherty, thank you so much. Do appreciate it.

So Rupert Murdoch's little tweet about the Romney campaign stirring up the big buzz. The media mogul is not the only one criticizing Romney's advisors.

Find out who the next big mogul is jumping on to twitter in sending out some tweets. They're getting people all shook up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: It's been no secret that Rupert Murdoch has campaign advised for Mitt Romney. Want to be President Obama, dump your advisors. I'm paraphrasing.

But the News Corp, CEO and frequent twitter does not mean for us when he sent out some pretty harsh tweets on Sunday against the presumptive Republican nominee's campaign team.

And wrote this, "Mitt Romney last week, tough O," meaning Obama, "Chicago pros will be hard to beat unless he," meaning Romney drops old friends from team and hires some real pros. Doubtful."

Ouch. It turns out he's not the only big wig who is tweeting big things. Let me bring in Joe Johns who is live in Columbus, Ohio.

A battleground state, what do you know? Fill me in on who the newest person is to take to Twitter and diss the staff of Romney's campaign and what he's saying?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: You know, I got to say, this is kind of a head scratcher quite frankly, Ashleigh. We're talking Jack Welch, the legendary former CEO of GE's, General Electric Corporation, really led that corporation for years and years to profits.

And people listen when Jack Welch speaks. And of course, when he starts dissing the Romney staff, you wonder what he knows. A lot of us wonder what he knows because quite frankly many people agree that Romney has a very strong staff, a lot of very good people surrounding him.

So why would he say that? I think there's a fear probably across the Republican Party about how formidable the Obama people are in running campaigns and really sort of getting to the heart of the matter down in the stretch. So it's interesting, but we don't know where that came from quite frankly.

BANFIELD: Well, you know, I'll tell you one thing. A lot of people who worked for Romney worked for him on his 2008 campaign for president and they worked for him during his tenure in Massachusetts as governor as well. So I don't know maybe there's some bad blood.

But let me switch gears here to your backdrop. I'm looking at that skyline behind you in Columbus, Ohio, just so happens to be a battleground state. We have into CNN some new polls about the battleground states and how the candidates are doing. Fill me in.

JOHNS: That's right. Well, interesting. I got to tell you. This is my hometown, Columbus, Ohio. We're at the boat house restaurant, which is a favorite watering hole here in Ohio. Right, we've talked a lot about the battleground states. We've also talked a lot about just how firm people are in they're choices.

Something like 79 percent of respondents say they are, in fact, they know who they are going to vote for in other words. Only 20 percent or so don't know.

So that number is narrowing already. We haven't even gotten to the convention conventions. It's probably going to be pretty small by the time we get down to November when we're talking about the few hard line independents, those swing voters who are making up their minds in the last days and weeks before we go to polls.

BANFIELD: So there's one other stat. Another poll that came out that I'm sure the Obama team is not going to be too thrilled about it, show that he's lagging by about 8 points in 15 of the swing states, in the battleground states.

I'm not sure that they are talking about it. It's a nice time to have a 4th of July vacation so you can at least stay under the radar a bit, but that's troublesome. That's troublesome for Obama's team.

JOHNS: Yes, it's very troublesome because you're not talking about that many voters and these swing voters -- those are the people who decide these elections.

And you know, so many of them year after year in that swath of real estate between Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, a few other places, of course.

If you talk about Florida, Iowa and so on, but there aren't a lot of voters not in a lot of places. Those are the people that Romney and Obama have to fight over.

Of course, the president is not looking so strong at this stage. Just a snapshot though and still early in terms of politics.

BANFIELD: I'm so glad that you got an assignment in your hometown just as we head into a holiday. Did you wrangle that or was it accidental?

JOHNS: Well, they've been threatening to just stick me here and make me stay for a while. Of course, they could have picked a better time and it's like 96 degrees. It's blazing hot out here.

BANFIELD: Get your mom to make you some lemonade. Thanks, Joe Johns. It's nice to see you. Happy Fourth. Enjoy your day off I hope.

All right, so we're going to turn to some other news when we come back after the break. This is a real bizarre case. A grandmother is charged with murdering her own grandson. It's on tape.

A 911 call and you can hear the teenager on the phone begging police for help. Then you hear more gunshots. This is a court case that everyone will be watching. Talk about it in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A grandmother sobbing as she hears the final moments of her grandson's life on a 911 call. The only thing is, she's not just mourning his death, police say she's the actual killer, the murderer.

Listen to 17-year-old Jonathan Hoffman name the shooter on the call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your emergency? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've just been shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 637 (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What city? OK, how did you get shot?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My grandma shot me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: You heard it. My grandma -- my grandma shot me. Our affiliate, WXYZ, is reporting that the judge determined yesterday that the woman you saw on your screen, Sandra Lane, is going to be held over for trial charged with open murder in the death of her grandson.

That station also reporting that some neighbors have said she feared that her son was using a drug called K2. Joining me now is Beth Karas. She is a correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV.

So many issues on this case, millions of terms that you could throw out there like dying declarations or excited utterance, but essentially, what does that call mean for her case?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, look. It didn't tell the whole picture. I've spoken with the defense attorney whom I know for years. He has a defense here, right.

Sure he was aware when he was shot and his grandmother shot him. She is beside herself over this. She loved her grandson, but what folks don't know is that in March of this year she called 911 screaming out of fear for him because of this drug, which is also known as spice.

It's a synthetic marijuana, which makes people hallucinate, can make people psychotic. She was aware after the March incident, when she called the police to her house and they were going to take him away and she said no. Just calm him down.

And the police left him there. In neighboring town, a boy, he's now arrested, bludgeoned his father to death and tried to kill his mother and brother under the same drug. So she was aware of that. She brought a gun.

BANFIELD: She heard that story.

KARAS: She knew the story, yes. The mother and brother are still -- mother and son are still in the hospital recuperating from March.

BANFIELD: Would jurors be allowed to hear the story that this defendant knew about the other incident, knew about that drug, knew about what it could do?

KARAS: If she takes the stand. But if she has a self-defense claim, and I think that's what is going to happen here. They will hear about the March incident. They will hear that he subsequently got arrested for possessing this drug, pled guilty on April 12th --

BANFIELD: The March incident --

KARAS: Two weeks after the March incident, he got arrested possessing this drug. He then pled guilty and was put on one year probation on April 12th of this year.

The day of the shooting he failed a urine test. His urine came back dirty he was under the influence of this drug again. So things, you know, went crazy in the household, but we don't have details of what he allegedly did to her to make her fire.

He won't -- the counselor won't tell me. Certain things are not in the public record, but four of the five shots were close range, like close range.

BANFIELD: Five gunshots.

KARAS: Which means he's on top of her.

BANFIELD: And the fact that you have a victim who dies, who's last records words are on record to, you know, an ear witness, the 911 operation. I want to play a little bit more of this call.

There's certain elements of the call I can't play for you. They're just too -- they're awful. I mean, you're hearing a young man dying on the phone.

But I do want you to hear this conversation between the dispatcher and this young man Hoffman. You can judge for yourself whether or not he appears to be out of control. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where were you shot at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My arms and my chest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your chest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are your grandparents still there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where did they go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't know where they went? They shot you though, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: So here is what we can't air and that is during this conversation as he's reporting, my grandmother did this. I'm shot in the chest. There's another shot.

So presumably if the prosecutors get their case, you know, right. She shot him while he's on the phone begging for help.

KARAS: That is not good. Was he threatening her while he's on the phone? There's no evidence that we're aware of there's another gun and he's holding her at gun point.

BANFIELD: But how long do you get to hold a fear of self-defense? I mean, if someone threatens you and then they back off, do you still get to say I can still keep shooting five pumps?

KARAS: She's being held on no bail. When the defense asked, they said are you kidding me. Open murder, the jury will decide what level of homicide it is though, first degree, second degree.

BANFIELD: That's why it opens murder. The jury gets to decide?

KARAS: The jury gets to decide in Michigan when they choose to charge this way.

BANFIELD: Death penalty state?

KARAS: No. Michigan, no.

BANFIELD: OK, I knew you'd know. I can never put you on the spot. You're amazing former prosecutor, one of the smartest in the business. Beth Karas, thank you. Appreciate it.

So there's this story all over the tabloids. Yes, I think you probably heard a thing or two, actress Katie Holmes apparently wasting no time in her divorce from Tom Cruise.

What role, if any, did Scientology play in this split? This famous mega split? We'll some have answers for you in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You can say what you want about Katie Holmes, but you cannot call her a procrastinator. Because after filing for divorce from megastar husband, Tom Cruise, she's reportedly packed up and moved out.

People.com is reporting that Katie Holmes has already taken their daughter, Suri, and moved out of the New York apartment. "New York Daily News" is reporting that she fired her PR rep and hired a brand new one.

Also gone the wedding ring that she was wearing, she also reportedly canned her security detail too. Tom Cruise is said to be shocked by Katie's desire to divorce him, citing irreconcilable differences. Katie is seeking sole custody of 6-year-old Suri Cruise. Really so many questions about scientology have cropped up and whether it played any role in the divorce between these two stars. CNN's Tom Foreman has more on the worldwide religion and the front and center role that Tom Cruise himself plays in it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When it comes to scientology, Tom Cruise may well be the faith's most combative celebrity defender famously tearing into NBC's Matt Lauer over the church's reputation of psychiatry.

TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: Do you know what Adderall is? Do you know Ritalin? Do you know now that Ritalin is a street drug? Do you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The difference is -- this wasn't against your will.

CRUISE: I'm asking a question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand there's abuse of all these things.

CRUISE: Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do.

FOREMAN: Although Cruise joined scientology in the 1980s, over the past decade his public identification with the group has been more pronounced explaining his beliefs on talk shows, in the press.

And scientology meetings featuring Cruise with his "Mission Impossible" theme playing in the background and the star giving a military salute to a scientology leader have appeared in videos like this one posted by Radar Online.

CRUISE: It's something you have to earn because scientology does, he or she has the ability to create new and better realities and improve conditions.

FOREMAN: Many of Cruise's statements underscore a central lesson of the faith that its followers can accomplish great things again Radar Online.

CRUISE: When you drive past an accident, it's not like anyone else. You drive past and you know you have to do something about it because you know you're the only one that can really help. I won't hesitate to put it somewhere else.

FOREMAN: Such talk echoes teachings laid out in the 1950s by the faith's founder, a science fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard. He created an outline for conduct and advancement.

For example, through counseling sessions referred to as audits, followers are supposed to be led toward positive thinking and achieving their goals no matter how ambitious.

Listen again to that Radar Online video as Cruise talks to fellow devotees about world leaders.

CRUISE: They want help and they are depending on people who know and who can be effective and do it and that's us.

FOREMAN: That was 2004. By 2005, Cruise was expressing even more enthusiasm over actress Katie Holmes. Most notably by jumping around on Oprah's sofa, so what happened?

Holmes, who was raised Catholic, is believed to have converted to scientology as her relationship with Cruise grew. But in the wake of their split, there are reports that she is concerned over their daughter, Suri, being raised in the faith.

But for now neither is addressing those reports. Holmes' attorney called the divorce a private matter and said her primary concern is her daughter's best interest.

Cruise's attorney did not respond to CNN inquiries, but told the "Los Angeles Times," his client hopes the divorce will not be contentious.

Cruise has spoken dismissively what scientologists call SPs, suppressive persons. It's a term used for person who try to impede the mission of scientology, again, Radar Online.

CRUISE: They said, have you met an SP? I looked at him -- you know, I thought what a beautiful thing. Maybe one day it will be like that. You know what I'm saying? Maybe one day it will be -- wow, SP. They'll read about those in history books.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Tom Foreman reporting for us. Let's be really clear. Despite all the scrutiny, by the way, if you follow the tabloids in New York City this has been going on for days. Tom, who, Katie surrounded by bodyguard on guard.

It's just a story that won't go away. The level of scrutiny on scientology and any possible involvement its had in this divorce has been to the microscopic level, but nobody know what's been going on in their home.

I mean, they know and who knows what this divorce is about. The scrutiny though does have people talking about scientology. What is it? Why might it have caused any problem for them or for anyone else?

Joining me now live is Dr. Lorne Dawson who is the chair of the Sociology and Legal Studies Department at the University of Waterloo.

Dr. Dawson, thanks for being with me. Can you give me a small summary of why it is there's such a curiosity and such a mystery about scientology? Is it warranted?

PROFESSOR LORNE DAWSON, UNIVERSITY OF WATERLOO: Well, scientology is controversial for a lot of reasons. I think one of it is essentially it's a kind of invented religious tradition. As a sociologist, this isn't surprising because in the sense all religions are inventions, but we haven't been able to sit and watch religions be invented.

I mean, in the past, they came together in ways that contemporaries would have seen things being created and fabricated. But here the media has been present from day one to observe the creation of this new religion.

It is a religion that is very intense and like many sectarian forms of religion. It requires really a tremendous amount of commitment on the part of people.

They want to influence all aspects of your lives and then are largely still somewhat secular society. I mean, people are religious, but not in that intense sense anymore.

This strike a nerve with people that someone could become so strongly committed to a set of beliefs in a relatively short period of time. Then it is also admittedly it's a secret initiatory group.

In that regard too it's not unlike many, many groups that have existed throughout the history of western society. The most obvious example would be the free masons. The mere fact that it requires a certain amount of secrecy as people move from level to level again generates controversy.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you? If one were to marry into a relationship whereby there is a scientologist, does that spouse have to convert? Is it that strict in terms of the unions between man and wife or is there a freedom to have open religions in a family and perhaps not as much (inaudible) as one might think.

DAWSON: As in most cases there isn't a straightforward answer to that. I'm not aware of any regulation or you know, dictate in the church that would suggest that people have to convert and become scientologists themselves.

But naturally as a small group that's trying to grow, they recognize that one of the ways all religious groups grow is precisely through converting spouses. There's a tremendous amount of emphasis on that.

There wouldn't be quite a bit of pressure brought to bear for the spouse to become a scientologist themselves. It's natural because if you were the person who was the scientologist, it would be very important to your sense yourself, your own identity, you would see that as something you want to share.

It's similar to if you marry a Catholic and you're a non-Catholic then usually the church requires you to make some kind of commitment to raise your children as Catholics.

So this is again not an unusual expectation. There is a strong emphasis on this scientology. I've met lots of scientology families over the years. And I've spoken with who've been raised as scientologist and it's clear that, you know, from their earliest childhood on they were introduced to scientology ideas and participated in scientology activities, but somewhat more intense than other religions but not unusual.

BANFIELD: It is without question fascinating. Definitely something a lot of people are curious about. It's good to talk with you, Dr. Dawson. Thanks for being with us. It's nice to see you.

DAWSON: Thanks very much, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Thanks so much. You know, as we've been reporting all hour long and into the early afternoon, Andy Griffith has died.

Coming up at the top of the hour, we're going to talk live with actress Barbara Eden about her fond memories of her friend, of her colleague, her co-star and a great man that many in Hollywood revered.

Also, just in, we're getting word that police have raided the home of the former French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, this while he's on vacation in Canada. Stay right there.

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BANFIELD: This just in to CNN. Police have raided the home and government offices of former French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, all part of an investigation into allegations of illegal campaign financing by one of France's wealthiest women, the L'Oreal heiress, Liliane Bettencourt.

His lawyer tells CNN that Sarkozy is on a family vacation in Canada and then also called this search, quote, "futile." The former president has previously denied any wrong doing in this investigation.

France TV3's senior foreign policy analyst, Christian Mallard joins me now live from Paris. Christian, give me a bit of a feel for how this story is getting traction in France.

I think it might come as a lot of surprise for a lot of people in America that a former president's house has been raided while on vacation. Is this a surprise to you and your countrymen?

CHRISTIAN MALLARD, SENIOR FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST, FRANCE TV3: Not at all. Not at all. It's not a surprise because at the moment -- when President Sarkozy lost after the French presidency when he was beaten, he was going to lose his diplomatic immunity.

So since he's not protected anymore from any judicial actions or whatever so two weeks ago that he was anticipated with his lawyer about the fact he might be investigated in his offices and home.

But it's true that when we have ten representatives, the financial brigade raiding his home and raiding his offices, that the manner, the approach is a bit, you know, we can't discuss about that. But at the same time, Sarkozy knew he would have this kind of problem because as I said he has so many bones of contention with French justice, which is qualified as being on the left.

All these judges decided that the day that when Sarkozy would lose his diplomatic immunity, he would start having problem with justice. Here we are, and it's not a surprise. But until now, it's not been proven that he made illegal financing campaign. So we will see.

BANFIELD: So this is going on five years because this is all in reference to the 2007 election. It sounds like an awful long time ago to be making a raid today. Have the police or officials said anything about what they may or may not have found?

MALLARD: To our knowledge, they did not have found anything and as I said, his lawyers said all these actions very futile. But at the same time, what Sarkozy would be reproached with? Maybe having been financed -- having his campiaign finaned by Madame Bettencourt, one of the richest persons in France, and I would say in the world, belonging to the L'Oreal Company. But at the same time, it could prove that he had only one meeting with Monsieur Bettencourt in February 2007. And all the agenda has been given to the lawyers. As I said, he anticipated, and at the same time, he's been offering to the lawyers to have his security agents spending all their time with him as witness. So I don't think Sarkozy left for Canada saying I will be in trouble, I will be in trouble. I think he left, it was planned a long time ago, and now justice will go his way. I don't think Sarkozy is going to show that he has any - that he is in trouble.

BANFIELD: We do appreciate that. It came to as a bit of a surprise, I think, to us, and probably to the former French president as well. Thanks so much for being with us from France. Do appreciate it.