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Big Gulp Versus Big Brother; Remembering Sally Ride; Horrifying Abuse At Afghan Hospital; Violence In Syria Escalates; Monsignor Gets Sentence; Ex-Penn State President; Memorial Honors Massacre Victims; Romney To Slam Obama Foreign Policy

Aired July 24, 2012 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX: I'm Suzanne Malveaux. This hour in the CNN NEWSROOM, we are focusing on the politics, technology and New York's controversial soda ban. I want to get right to it.

As the violence in Syria escalates, the European union is calling for tightening sanctions. In May of last year, E.U. banned weapons exports to Syria. Well now, member nations will be required to search ships and airplanes suspected of carrying suspicious cargo to Syria. Meanwhile, the opposition reports heavy fighting in Aleppo and Damascus, saying that 54 people have been killed across the country today.

It is a first for Philadelphia as well as the United States. A judge has sentenced monsignor William Lynn to three to six years in prison. Lynn is the first Roman Catholic official to be criminally convicted of covering up claims that priests were abusing children.

And the ousted president of Penn State, he is firing back in a letter to the school's Board of Trustees. Graham Spanier says his massive -- this is a quote, "massive and persistent abuse as a child make it illogical to believe that he would ignore child abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky. Spanier has not been charged in connection with the Sandusky case, but an investigation by ex-FBI chief Louis Freeh concludes that he helped University officials conceal allegations of sexual abuse against the former assistant football coach.

We're learning more about the sophisticated booby trap inside the apartment of James Holmes. Now, the suspect in the Colorado movie massacre. The bomb squad, it was able to defuse the trap. Now, a law enforcement official says the apartment was rigged to explode and it looked like something you'd find in Iraq or Afghanistan. It included 30 homemade grenades wired to a control box, and 10 gallons of gasoline. The gas was divided among glass containers and gas cans so that the fire from the explosion would spread more quickly. But while police prosecutors suspect -- focus on the suspect, the community is now focusing on the victims.

So, I want to bring in Jim Spellman, he is live in Aurora, Colorado. And Jim, I understand that people are expressing their grief in what looks like makeshift memorials that have been set up throughout. JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we've heard so much about the suspected shooter. I wanted to show you a little bit of the spirit of this community. Take a look at this memorial here. This sign, gone, not forgotten, was the first sign that popped up here that first day. Ever since then, it's been growing literally by the hour. Some of these candles have been burning 24 hours a day. When you get here even before the sun is up, you can see this glowing tribute. Even here on the sidewalk, people are leaving messages in chalk. And it just goes on and on all the way down the sidewalk. As you can see here, this one sign here I think is pretty special. Real heroes wear badges, not capes, reference, of course, to the batman movies and all the first responder that showed up. Come on up the hill here Demir (ph). Up here at the top of this hill, you can see a cross made for each of the victims. People have been bringing by flowers and candles, here stuffed animals, one has a skateboard. And I want to introduce you to Lorraine and Joy. They just showed up and brought a sign. Tell us about the sign, Lorraine, what does it say?

LORRAINE LIGHTNER: It's an acronym and it just says, pray for everyone, rely on god for comfort, always seek -- always seek faith, you are not alone. We will not live in fear.

SPELLMAN: Joy, why did you want to come here and bring the sign?

JOY THOMPSON: We are part of the community. I'm a parent. I work in the community, and it could have been my kids. And you know, it's the grace of god that my baby's name is not on there. And so ,we wanted to come out and show our love and support for our community, and that we are -- we are supportive and we're not going to let this change us.

SPELLMAN: And I think, Suzanne, that that's really the spirit I have felt from so many people. People that have been coming by. There's a prayer circle going on right over here. People have been coming by here all day, and it's really been accelerating. And I've heard that just throughout the community, not even here at the memorial, that people are not going to give in to the darkness of this event. They're not going to give in to fear, they're going to live positively and try to remember all the good things about these victims and forget as much as they can about the suspect -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And we certainly support their efforts. Jim, thank you so much, we appreciate it.

Well, new life emerges from the tragedy in Colorado. Even as the victims of shootings struggle how to recover, the wife of one of the victims gave birth to their first child today. The victim, Caleb medley, he is actually in the same hospital, in critical condition. His wife and son are doing well.

Mitt Romney says his business experience makes him the best person to handle the economy, but today, Romney's focus is now on foreign policy. Next hour, he delivers what the campaign is calling a major policy address. That is happening at the veterans foreign wars convention. The speech comes ahead of Romney's trip that he's taking overseas. I want to bring in Dana bash who is at the convention in Reno. Dana, first of all, it's interesting, he is about to go overseas, and he is going to, we assume, attack President Obama on his foreign policy record during the speech. But he's also going to talk about leaks of classified information. How does that relate?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're exactly right. He is going to go after President Obama big time, and we know that just from the experts that the Romney campaign has released. And as you know, the focus in this election has not been on foreign policy. So, the Romney campaign is trying to make it not so much about foreign policy, but get -- go to the heart of the president's character and to the heart of the issue of trust. Can you trust President Obama with this whole question of leaks? This is in the news in a big way over the past month or two about the fact that there were a series of national security leaks that are being investigated right now in Washington. What the former governor of Massachusetts is going to do is quote, "the Democratic Senate Intelligence chairman, Dianne Feinstein, who just yesterday said that she -- the White House understands that some of this has to be coming from its ranks.

So, here is what Mitt Romney is going to say, and I'll give you a quote from the speech that they released. He is going to say, "let me be clear. These events make the decision we face in November all the more important. What kind of White House would reveal classified information for a political gain? I'll tell you right now, mine won't." And he's going to use some familiar terms like, the White House is stonewalling, and with the president, the buck should stop there. So, again, this is about foreign policy, but also very much trying to hit at the character and trust of President Obama and his administration.

MALVEAUX: And what about defense cuts? I understand that that is going to be a line of criticism as well.

BASH: It definitely will be. Look, this is the VFW convention, there is no better audience than not get a round of applause for hitting Washington, in general, for defense cuts that are expected down the pike. As a part of last year's debt deal, they did agree, Democrats and Republicans, to have about $100 billion in cuts, a little more -- a little more than half of that would be from defense. Now, Republicans and now Mitt Romney today will really hit the president for that. But I think we should give a bit of a reality check that Republicans in Congress voted for this larger bill, too, 72 percent, for example, of the House Republican conference voted for this in order to make sure that you U.S. didn't hit the debt ceiling and make sure that some spending is going to be cut.

MALVEAUX: It is very controversial. And Dana, finally, Romney is about to leave for a major trip overseas. He's going to be traveling to London, Israel, Poland. Give us a sense of what he hopes to accomplish by hitting those three countries.

BASH: Very interesting mix of countries. First of all, hitting London. That is, of course, where the Olympics are going to be. He's going to be there for the opening ceremonies. It's a nice way to not only sort of have a rah-rah American moment, but also remind people that he was the successful head of the Olympics about a decade ago. And then, let's just fast-forward to Israel. Israel has been a very controversial issue for President Obama, particularly within the Jewish community here in the United States, and some of those key swing districts and swing states, Florida, for example.

And President Obama, it's no -- it's no secret that he doesn't have the greatest relationship with the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Mitt Romney has known him, ironically, for years and years, since they worked together on the private sector, so it's a way for him to make that connection, make the point, as his aides are doing. President Obama hasn't even got to Israel, and he could have because he had been in the enabled. So, those are some of the reasons that he's going to the places he is.

MALVEAUX: All right, Dana. Thank you, we appreciate it. We'll be following his journey's international trek in the days ahead.

We're going to have live coverage of Romney's speech at the VFW convention in Reno, Nevada beginning at the top of the hour, at 2:00 p.m. Eastern.

Here's what we're working on for this hour.

(voice-over): The battle over big soda. New Yorkers have their say today. Many are not happy about the possible ban on those big sugary drinks.

Plus the cost of politics. Remember the showdown with the debt ceiling? Well, there's a price to pay for all that fighting in Congress. The total more than $1 billion.

And you'd think that all those tech execs would want us to pick up our Blackberries, iPhones and computers, but listen to this. They actually think we should step away from the addictive devices.

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MALVEAUX: There's a public hearing this hour on New York's controversial proposed ban on big sodas. I'm sure you have heard about this one. Mayor Bloomberg, he wants to ban selling sodas larger than 16 ounces at city restaurants, movie theaters, some other places as well. He says, these sugary drinks are one of the leading causes of the obesity epidemic. Critics, they are protesting, they say it's a matter of their rights. Mary Snow, she's live outside of the hearing. Mary, I can't imagine what New Yorkers are talking -- are saying about this one. Are they upset?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MALVEAUX: Or do they think it's a good idea?

SNOW: Well you know, this has really struck a nerve on both sides of this issue. And just running into a couple dozen New Yorkers lining up to attend this public hearing. I ran into a civil liberties attorney, who is adamantly opposed and plans to voice his opposition, a community of activists who strongly supports it. And this is the only public hearing where New Yorkers will be able to sound off on this proposal of mayor Bloomberg's, a proposal he unveiled back in late May. As you mentioned, limiting the size of large sugary drinks to 16 ounces in theaters, and restaurants and delis. And leading up to this, there has been an aggressive push on both sides, supporters and opponents. And largely, a lot of those opponents, the opposition has been led by the beverage industry. But the mayor, just yesterday, was sounding fairly confident that he believes his plans will not be derailed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't dictate to us. Talk with us, not at us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), MAYOR, NEW YORK: Compared to smoking, this is an easy battle to win, and nobody is going to stop this, I -- is my impression. We just cannot continue to do this.

SNOW: You know, Suzanne, this public hearing today was only scheduled to last about two hours, but the health department believes that it could go much longer than that because of the all the people who have signed up to voice their opinion on this proposal.

MALVEAUX: Oh, yes, it's a feisty debate going on. Tell us about the health commissioner. He just talked about -- had a presser. Is he confident this is going to pass?

SNOW: Yes, and here's why, because this proposal is going to be voted on by the members of the Department of Health. And they have been appointed by the mayor. There are 11 members. The vote comes up in September, and so he is saying, look, there have been controversial proposals on posting calories, cutting transfat, also public smoking in New York City. He believes, you know, this will go through, and, largely, everybody really believes that that will happen. The American Beverage Association, though, is bracing for this. And they are considering a number of options. And they told me one of the things they are considering if this goes through is a lawsuit.

MALVEAUX: All right, Mary, we're talking a look at -- it says "big gulp versus big brother." A perfect way to put it there.

Thanks, Mary, appreciate it.

SNOW: Very good way to put it.

MALVEAUX: She was the first woman in space riding in history aboard the Challenger space shuttle. We are remembering Sally Ride and her legacy.

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MALVEAUX: Today we are mourning as well as recognizing a woman who defines words like "hero" and "pioneer." At the age of just 61, Sally Ride lost a 17-month battle with pancreatic cancer. In 1983, she became the first American woman and the youngest American to fly in space. At a time when the sciences, especially space travel, were pretty much a boy's club. Well, Ride inspired countless young women to pursue their dreams. President Obama called her a national hero.

Former astronaut, the first black woman in space, Mae Jemison, she is joining us on the phone from Houston.

Mae, it is good to talk to you, as always. For anybody who was not alive in 1983, it might be hard to understand just how important Ride's journey was into space and what it personally meant to you as well.

MAE JEMISON, FORMER ASTRONAUT (via telephone): When I -- when I think about Sally Ride, we think about just that energy that you hear in the music coming on, because I remember that people played that "Ride Sally Ride," because we were so enthusiastic. Finally here in the United States we had a woman going up in space, when we had known all along, since I was a little girl growing up in the Apollo era, that women were just as much a part and had just as much right to be involved with space exploration as men. So that was a thrilling moment.

MALVEAUX: It was -- sure. It was so exciting to see her and to see what she looked like with all of those men. What did she mean to you personally? Because I know the two of you actually had a relationship that went on for quite some time.

JEMISON: Well, it's kind of interesting because I actually joined the space program as Sally Ride. I was joining the astronaut core as Sally Ride was leaving the astronaut program. And I actually inherited her desk. In the strange shuffle of events, I inherited her desk. And I remember her running into the room one day and saying, hey, Mae, don't worry about it. I'm going to get all this stuff off the desk. Hey, by the way, good to meet you. And that was my first introduction. It wasn't -- for me personally, it was one of those things of saying, yes, you can do this.

Now, Sally Ride came in with a group of five other women astronauts in 1978. And she was the one who was chosen to be the first American woman in space. And so I think with that she carried an incredible burden, which was to just sort of say, yes, we can do it. And she did it very effortlessly. And I think that that is really important.

MALVEAUX: And she has work that continues. The Sally Ride Science Institute in San Diego. That this is -- this only continues what people are trying to do and what she set out to do.

JEMISON: Well, in fact, I think if you look at a retrospective of Sally Ride, it's not just the space part. We have to remember that she was a physicist before she ever went into space, and in a time when women weren't involved in physics as well. She also was the leader of the Ride Commission, which was the report after the Challenger accident. She went on to head lots of other -- and be a part of lots of other space exploration commissions, as well as starting Ride Science. I think that there's this continuous, incredible investment and commitment to science, technology, engineering and mathematics education, as well as innovation and pushing the future forward.

MALVEAUX: And, Mae, when you look at her and her legacy, you look at your own legacy, why is it that we don't have more female astronauts and scientists today. What still needs to happen here?

JEMISON: Well, I think we have -- we have probably more than people think of because a lot of times we don't highlight them and we don't see them. But I think one of the big issues is to make sure that the public sees that, yes, this is part of not only a possibility, but a reality. And as we see that that reality is there, then young girls will find a lot of the energy to get over the hurdles that are thrown in front of them. And maybe we'll also have older males not throwing so many hurdles in front of them or people with their stereotypes of who ought to do what that will back off and we'll be able to use the full talent of our country. And I think that that's what Dr. Ride represents. She represents a time when we were committed to the full talent of our country being deployed.

MALVEAUX: And, Mae, before I let you go, what are you up to now? What are you doing?

JEMISON: Well, right now I'm continuing to look into space. I'm working on a project called 100 year starship, which is, how do we make sure that within the next 100 years we have the capability of sending humans to another star. Why do we believe in this? Because I think that by working to create an extraordinary tomorrow, that we will actually build a better world today. That's what we need to do to say that we're going to take on something that's even bigger than ourselves. And as we go a little bit ways toward it, we will create these incredible transformations on our planet.

MALVEAUX: And that was Sally Ride's legacy as well.

Mae Jemison, thank you so much. Good to talk to you, as always.

JEMISON: You're very welcome. I'm sorry it's at this time, but thank you.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

Doctors and nurses demanding bribes in exchange for care? That is what's allegedly is happening at a hospital at Afghanistan. It was all being done with your money. Millions of wasted taxpayer dollars.

Don't forget, you can watch CNN live on your compete while you're at work. Head to cnn.com/tv.

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MALVEAUX: Three days out from the summer Olympics and Britain has beefed up security again. Twelve hundred extra troops have been called in as the security fiasco deepens. Just last week, an extra 3,500 troops were rallied to fill a gap by this private security firm G4S. You're looking at a dramatic rescue in flood-ravaged China. Two cars in a wedding caravan dropped 30 feet into a river when a bridge collapsed. Now, rescuers made it down with ropes, broke open the sun roof and pulled the driver to safety. Others in China were not so fortunate. At least 37 people have been found dead after the heaviest rain in 60 years slammed major cities and suburbs.

Hard to imagine a hospital of horrors funded by the U.S. government, but there is no other way to describe a medical facility in Afghanistan's capital. Well, now, more than two years after the U.S. military discovered shocking abuse at the hospital that it was bankrolling, Congress, today, finally hearing directly from military whistle-blowers and other witnesses.

I want to bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr who has been out in front of this story from the very beginning.

Barbara, we're talking about corruption, we're talking about wasted taxpayer dollars, efforts to block this investigation. What did we learn today?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was all finally out on the table in front of the public and Congress, Suzanne. Fraud, abuse, corruption, mistreatment of Afghan soldiers by Afghan medical staff, all at a facility where the U.S. paid more than $100 million to help run it. The whistle-blowers finally came out today and told their side of the story at this congressional hearing.

There are some photos we want to warn are not suitable for our youngest viewers to see of some of the abuse that was perpetrated on these Afghan-wounded troops at were at this hospital, where U.S. military personnel were trying to mentor or train Afghan personnel. That's what it was all about. As you look at some of this, it's just hard to believe what went on here. And, today, the congressman chairing the oversight subcommittee looking into all of this had the harshest words.

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REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), OVERSIGHT SUBCOMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Photographic evidence and firsthand accounts indicated that wounded Afghan soldiers endured starvation, bed sores and botched operations. Wounds were left undressed and Afghan doctors conducted procedures without anesthesia or painkillers. In his written testimony, Colonel Karoza (ph) described the conditions as, quote, "Auschwitz-like," end quote. Oftentimes Afghan doctors and nurses would demand bribes in exchange for care. Those who could not afford to do so, died in their hospital beds. The medical care in Afghanistan was so substandard that it was ranked at the lowest 1 percent by the World Health Organization. All of this was funded by the U.S. taxpayer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Auschwitz-like conditions at this hospital, funded by the U.S. taxpayers, where U.S. military personnel felt their hands were tied. They were told that basically this was a problem the Afghans had to solve.

This went on for months until, finally, finally, an inspector general investigation was launched from the U.S. military over the objections of some generals apparently who didn't want the bad news to get out, at least not right away. That's the allegation, all out in public today, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Wow, Barbara, it's just even hard to see those pictures and even believe this is reality here. What do we make will come out of this investigation? Who could be held responsible for what happened?

STARR: Well, let's be clear. Right now what is on the table, two U.S. Army generals, General William Caldwell, General Gary Patton, are -- their actions are being at least reviewed -- that's according to the Pentagon, reviewed, not an investigation yet.

The allegation is that these two generals, the whistle-blowers contend, delayed an inspector general investigation in 2010, because they were concerned about appearances. They were concerned it would come at the time of the 2010 elections, that it would make everybody look bad. That's an allegation that is out there.

The I.G. is reviewing it. It remains to be seen whether this now moves to a full investing. But Congress -- Congressman Chaffetz is pressing for more action to be taken.

MALVEAUX: And, Barbara, very quickly here, that hospital, have things improved, the conditions improved in that hospital for those Afghans?

STARR: Sure. The Pentagon tells us that the Afghan leadership has been fired and changed, that conditions have improved, but the U.S. is still inspecting it every several weeks, every few months, because there is still a lot of U.S. money being poured into it and a lot of effort by U.S. military personnel to try and get the Afghan (inaudible) wounded.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: That is such an unbelievable story. Barbara, Thank you. Appreciate it.

Well, you are probably checking your smartphone as we speak, but you might be able to take a break. That is what some tech execs think. They say you've got to do it. You heard right, the very same people trying to sell you these products.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT: Hey, everyone. Here on the "Help Desk" today we're talking about credit card debt, a big issue for folks. With me, Greg Olson and Donna Rosato, our two money experts.

Greg, this question came in for you. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're carrying a very large amount of credit card debt, even though it's more beneficial in the long run if you have it, to pay it off, is it worth it to pay it off in one big lump sum?

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HARLOW: Yes, and he said, you know, I can afford to go month by month paying this off, even with the high interest rate, but should I pay it off in a lump sum?

GREG OLSEN, PARTNER, LENOX ADVISERS: Well, at Lenox Advisers we always say the rule of thumb is to pay off debt as quickly as possible. So if you have the money in a lump sum, pay it off as quickly as you can.

There are advantages, though, of paying on a monthly basis, such as for budgeting or also having -- building up your credit as time goes on. But if you have the money to pay it off, certainly do so, because then you're going to be paying the interest back to yourself.

(CROSSTALK)

DONNA ROSATO, SENIOR WRITER, "MONEY": I definitely agree with that, because, you know, it shows a strong track record if you can continue to pay it off every month, but it's better to get rid of that high-interest rate debt.

I do think you need to consider that if you have other revolving rate debts, like a student loan or a mortgage, maybe it's less important for you to have that monthly payment on your credit card versus paying it all off. And you're always better paying off that high-rate interest.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

And if you have a question you want one of our experts to tackle, you can just upload a 30-second video with your "Help Desk" question to iReport.com.

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MALVEAUX: All right. Turn off the cell phone, log off the computer, don't look back, at least for a little while. That's what Silicon Valley execs like Stewart Crabbe at Facebook told "The New York Times" in a recent article that caught our eye.

That's right, because the people who sell these cool gadgets, they're actually warning us to use them with caution, kind of like Coke or Pepsi coming out, telling you to drink a little bit less.

"Reuters" columnist John Abell who's joining us via Skype, you wrote an article last year, basically saying you agree. You found yourself at one point even loving being in a blackout, right? Because you could not use all the things that you had become addicted to. Why do you think they're telling us to step away -- step away from the gadgets?

JOHN ABELL, COLUMNIST, "REUTERS MEDIAFILE": Well, look, everything in moderation, right? These devices now are with us all the time. The reason that there are so many apps is because developers know we're always going to be with our phone, which means we're always going to use them.

We've been sensory overloaded for a long time. Now we're data overloaded. There's a lot of stress involved and there's a lot of sort of disconnect with the world, so, yes, you need to take a break every once in a while. Just common sense.

MALVEAUX: Common sense. But why is it so hard to do?

ABELL: Well, look, ask yourself, how much time do you spend -- idle time do you spend looking at that thing?

Honestly, I could barely spare the three minutes for this interview, I'm so involved with my smartphone. I use it -- I use it when I watch TV. Really, I was thinking about this.

The only times that I am completely disconnected is when I'm sleeping or when I'm driving, because when you're driving, you really shouldn't be doing these things. But now cars are becoming connected devices as well, so we are not going to be spared that even on a nice drive in the country.

MALVEAUX: John, why are you so -- why is it so hard for you, why is it so tough? That three minutes not to be disconnected in some way?

ABELL: Well, look, I grew up in the TV generation. To quote my mother, I was glued to the TV set. The phrase "go out and play" is still relevant now. We're fascinated by these things. But TV is passive. What these devices are are gateways to everything, to lots of things.

You can write, you can read, you can share, you can communicate in amazing ways. You can discover things that you couldn't -- you could only discover in a previous generation if you flew to Paris. This -- it's very, very compelling. Yes, there's a lot of time- wasting, but it's a powerful tool to learn and develop. So it's a great thing to have, but like everything else, too much is never great.

MALVEAUX: And this is -- for kids, at least, this is what Dr. Michael Seyffert told CNN, "Neuroimaging studies have shown that those kids who are texting have the same area of the brain light up as an addict using heroin."

ABELL: Yes.

MALVEAUX: I mean, that's very, very powerful stuff there. I mean, how do you actually take a vacation from all of this and, you know, cut off from technology? ABELL: Well, I think even the notion that we're talking about taking a vacation itself is part of the problem. In your daily life, there should be times, just for a matter of politeness and etiquette, where you're not using this thing. You're having lunch with somebody, you put it down, you keep it in your pocket; you're driving, obviously, things like that.

You should be disciplined enough so that you're not so tethered to these things that you're using it all the time. I've been guilty of using my phone or tablet unconsciously. I'm with people and suddenly they're saying, John, John, John.

So you have to learn to sort of incorporate properness in your daily life, and then maybe you don't need to take a formal vacation or a very, very long drive in order to cut that cord.

MALVEAUX: Were you able to do that, John? Because I know you had your own experiment going on. How did it go for you?

ABELL: Well, it went great. This was back in August during Hurricane Irene. And we lost power and even worse, we lost data. I had two iPhones, AT&T and Verizon, no data at all, barely texting, I thought I was going to go crazy. My daughter actually was catatonic, but I discovered that it was really nice to be out and in the sun and doing a barbecue and grilling and reading and candles, all that stuff.

You know, a neighbor told me -- this was pretty funny. He said, yes, the first day it's "Little House on the Prairie." In three days it will be "Lord of the Flies." And that might be true, but until you've reached that point where you're engaging in cannibalism and torture, it really is terrific.

(LAUGHTER)

MALVEAUX: All right. Hopefully we never get to that point.

ABELL: I hope so.

MALVEAUX: John, good to see you as always.

ABELL: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Glad you could disconnect for three minutes. Appreciate it.

Political bickering, not anything new. Turns out there is a price to pay, however, for all the fighting in Congress. And you're not going to believe the cost.

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MALVEAUX: Partisan fighting, political grandstanding in Congress, it's not just frustrating, it's actually expensive. The showdown over raising the debt ceiling actually put the government deeper in debt. Alison Kosik, she's joining us from the New York Stock Exchange to explain how it happened and how much money we're talking about.

Alison?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, too bad our legislators don't realize that time is money, Suzanne. You know, the drawn-out, drag-out fight on how to lift the debt ceiling last year cost the government a whopping $1.3 billion. That's according to the General Accounting Office.

It was all about uncertainty over what was going to happen. That's what made it more expensive for the government to borrow money during the eight months before hitting the debt limit.

Now here's the irony in this. Since last summer, the cost of borrowing money has actually fallen; the interest rate on a 10-year U.S. bond hit a record low yesterday. But this isn't just about money. The GAO also reported concern that the debate distracted the Treasury Department from its day job.

The Treasury wound up being forced to come up with extraordinary measures to keep the government operating while Congress debated whether or not to increase the debt limit. And the GAO says what that did is divert resources from the Treasury's day-to-day cash management, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: So, Alison, we know the debt ceiling, it is coming up for debate again. How do we expect that this is going to play out?

KOSIK: Yes, here we go again, right? So about -- we're about $550 billion away from hitting the debt ceiling again. That's if we run a budget deficit of around $125 billion a month. So that can mean we could hit the debt ceiling as early as mid-November.

So we could be talking about this yet in November. Now the GAO is offering its report as a cautionary tale, that delaying action, yes, it costs money. Suzanne?

MALVEAUX: A rough day for stocks. So take a look at the numbers. What is behind the sell-off?

KOSIK: Yes, we are actually -- stocks are actually at session lows, the Dow down 166 points. The stock kept falling from the opening bell. They just haven't been able to dig out of the hole. There are big worries about Germany, after the outlook for its credit rating was cut.

And the big issue here, what everybody is worried about is with the potential for more bailouts happening in Europe, and Germany footing most of the bill, it's not a good thing that there's the potential for a full-blown downgrade on Germany, because that could have widespread implications for financial markets. You're seeing the markets a bit spooked today about that, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right, Alison, thanks. Appreciate it.

For the first time in 22 years, the International AIDS Conference is now here in the United States. Well, why did it take so long? Because the U.S. government banned people with HIV from entering the country. Now they are focused on finding a cure.

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MALVEAUX: Stopping the spread of HIV, that is the focus right now at the International AIDS Conference. That is underway in Washington, D.C. Our Sanjay Gupta, he is there.

Sanjay, good to see you. In addition to this announcement of this new drug approved by the FDA, we're now learning more about a man who says he's been cured. You've gotten a chance to know this patient. Can you tell us a little bit about him?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and let me preface by saying, Suzanne, that, you know, using the word cure is not something you hear from the scientific community very often. People tend to be very careful when using that word.

But that is the word they are using to describe a man named Timothy Ray Brown. His story is an interesting one. He had HIV/AIDS. He was then subsequently diagnosed with leukemia.

As part of his treatment from leukemia he underwent a bone marrow transplant. And they believe it's that transplant that ultimately essentially rid his body of the virus. I did speak to Timothy Ray Brown earlier. He's here talking about his remarkable story. And here is how he put it to me.

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GUPTA: Does that mean that you're -- have no symptoms? You have no virus? How do you describe it?

TIMOTHY RAY BROWN, HIV "CURE": I quit taking my HIV medication on the day I got my first transplant. Unfortunately, the leukemia came back. And so I had to get a second transplant about a year later. And after the first transplant I did very well. I gained muscle weight and went back to work. And everything was great.

But the leukemia came back. My HIV was gone after like three months after the first transplant, totally eradicated from my body.

GUPTA: Completely gone?

BROWN: Yes, completely gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So you hear, obviously, his story. And a bone marrow transplant, Suzanne, obviously is not the answer for all people with HIV/AIDS. But what scientists are really focusing in on at this conference -- and they have been, you know, literally poking and prodding Mr. Brown for some time -- is trying to figure out what exactly happened here and how can that be applied to other people. His cells reject the virus. The virus cannot get into his cells. Why is that and can that be replicated? That's what they're trying to answer, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: That's incredible. I understand, Sanjay, you also just interviewed actress Debra Messing of "Will and Grace," and she talked about the importance of testing. Let's listen in to that.

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DEBRA MESSING, ACTRESS: Six thousand lives were saved and they are bringing lifesaving innovations into the countries to the people who need it. I mean, now we're at such an exciting time when an AIDS- free generation is within reach.

And these innovations are working. So it's just a matter of combining them and getting them to the people. And that's all about, you know, staying the course and having the funding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Sanjay, tell us why it was important for her to be there, why she's there and why this is the first time that we're now seeing this conference hosted here in more than 20 years?

GUPTA: Yes, well, you know, with regard to Ms. Messing, first of all, she's an ambassador for an organization known as Population Services International. I mean, they travel around the world doing this sort of work that she's just describing. You know, she has a backstory. Her first acting coach or teacher was someone who died of HIV/AIDS about 20 years ago.

In fact, her son, Paul, is named after her acting teacher. And you find stories like that a lot. You know, people have a personal connection in some way. And as a result of that, at least in her case, it's inspired a lot of the work that she does.

So she goes around the world. And she's -- you know, I asked, I said "Why you? I mean, what do people get out of you?"

And she said, "You know, I'm that lovable person you knew from 'Will and Grace,' and people feel a little bit comfortable when they hear a message from me." And I thought that was a good way of putting it.

Really quick on your second question, Suzanne, the conference hasn't been held in the United States since 1990 because -- and people may not know this. There was a ban up until 2009 for people with HIV entering this country, getting a visa and entering this country.

Pretty remarkable with all that we knew of the science of transmission that it was only just three years ago that ban was lifted. But that's why we haven't had an AIDS conference in the United States in more than 20 years.

MALVEAUX: All right. Hard to believe. Sanjay, thank you, really appreciate it.

The Jackson family feud has reached a whole new level. We're talking about Michael Jackson's kids haven't seen their grandmother for more than a week. And now a new security video shows a scuffle between family members.

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MALVEAUX: First the disappearance of Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine. Now we have now video that appears to show a scuffle between Janet Jackson and Michael's daughter, Paris. All this taking place at Katherine Jackson's home.

Our entertainment editor, Alan Duke, is on the story.

Alan, we heard police were called in. What is going on with the Jackson family?

ALAN DUKE, CNN WIRE ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR: Well, there's a lot of tension. And the center of the tension is where is Katherine Jackson.

Jermaine Jackson and Rebbie and Janet will tell you that she is doing well in Arizona, resting and destressing, not wanting to use a phone or a computer, not wanting to contact the three children of Michael Jackson, whom she has been raising since their father suddenly passed away three years ago.

The kids will tell you, meaning Paris, Blanket and Prince, will tell you they're very concerned about their grandmother because, guess what, she's not called them in nine days. In fact, she wasn't supposed to be gone that long. She didn't go to where she was supposed to be going. And they want to talk to her. They're very distressed about this.

So and actually that was not a scuffle. It was sort of a confrontation between Paris and her aunt, Janet Jackson, as you can see on the security camera video that we obtained.

Janet, witnesses tell me, is telling her, "I want your phone because you've been tweeting too much." She doesn't give it to her. She runs into the security office. And that's Randy and that is Janet with their own cell phones videotaping her as she went along. Now why were they doing that? What does that say about the situation?

It means that there's a lot of tension and distrust between all of them.

MALVEAUX: Yes.

DUKE: The future of the Jackson family, Michael's three children, who will inherit or have inherited this huge fortune, are being alienated by their aunts and their uncles, at least some of them. And it doesn't look pretty for unity in the Jackson family.

MALVEAUX: Yes, and we're going to have to let you go, but real quick, Paris tweeting here, saying, "Nine days and counting. So help me God, I will make whoever did this pay."

Clearly a lot of mystery and confusion around what's taking place with the Jackson family. Alan, thank you for the update. We are obviously going to be keeping up and keeping track with what that apparently means with some of these family members, who seem to be fighting.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.

Hey, Brooke.