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Al Qaeda Planning New Attacks?; No Hope for Peace in Syria?

Aired August 02, 2012 - 15:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama firing up the crowd there, Winter Park, Florida. You heard them chanting four more years, touting some of the items he has gotten done in the last three-and-a- half years.

Keep in mind, not too many states away, we had Mitt Romney speaking in Golden, Colorado. Folks, three more months until those November elections. You can keep watching the president. Go to CNN.com/live.

And now roll the open.

As we continue hour two, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Al Qaeda -- al Qaeda may be plotting new terror, plots from the skies. Police in southern Spain have arrested these three suspected members of al Qaeda. Spain's interior minister said men were "ready to act" in Europe.

And authorities theorize that plot involved American or British targets. The Spanish interior minister also says the terror cell had gathered enough explosives to blow up a bus, was mastering the art of flying on motorized paragliders, and had information about remote- controlled planes as well.

Let's go straight to our CNN contributor Paul Cruickshank. He's an investigative reporter and a terrorism analyst, joining me from Brussels.

Paul, let's just begin with the fact that they had been found already with these powerful explosives, the first terror suspects in Spain, actually to be caught with explosives, so this tells me, and let me just ask you, this wasn't just in the planning stages. Were they operational, and what were they plotting?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Brooke, everything that we're hearing was, this was a very serious plot perhaps connected to al Qaeda, a plot perhaps to target an American naval base in southern Spain or perhaps British interests in Gibraltar.

That's the working hypothesis of Spanish security services right now, but also concern that this group, this alleged terrorist cell, may have been plotting against targets in France, maybe elsewhere in Europe as well. This was a group which had obtained explosives. And the Spanish were very concerned they were about to go operational, and that's why these arrests were made, Brooke.

BALDWIN: These men, we know, one believed to be Turkish, two believed to be Russian, Chechen. Do we know which cells specifically the police believe they had ties to?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, at the moment, what the Spanish are saying is this group may have been had ties to a Pakistani militant group called Lashkar-e-Taiba.

This is the group that was responsible for the 2008 Mumbai attacks when almost 200 people were killed. It is not a group which has launched a plot yet against the West, and this may be the first instance of that. It's a very powerful jihadist group based in Pakistan. So if that link is confirmed, it will be of deep concern to U.S. counterterrorism officials, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And then it sounds in terms of planning, Paul, that the suspects had information on remote-controlled planes, that they were even learning about paragliding, motorized paragliding.

Isn't that a new tactic? We have seen attempts, obviously, on planes, cargo planes, but what about, you know, paragliding? How would they have pulled that off?

CRUICKSHANK: That's right, Brooke. From what we're hearing from sources close to the investigation, they were actually getting lessons, going up into the air, getting paragliding lessons.

This was an imaginative and bold plot, perhaps to target an American naval facility, perhaps other targets, perhaps using these paragliders to sort of swoop in over security perimeters and launch a sort of bomb attack. That's one of the working hypotheses right now of Spanish security services.

It's obviously very early stages still in the investigation. But this was a plot which was uncovered about a month ago in Spain. They have been watching these people very closely. Since then, there's been great cooperation with other Western intelligence services. So this was a successful disruption of a plot here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness.

One other item, just in reading about this, that jumped out at me as something I had not seen before, earlier this year, there was a posting on some jihadist Web site basically seeking Spanish speakers, those who specifically are lone wolves living among the enemy. Why Spanish?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that's right.

And what al Qaeda is trying to do, and I believe this came from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the Yemeni group, they're trying to get homegrown recruits across the West, the United States, and Spain, all across Europe to actually launch attacks themselves, because in some parts of the world, al Qaeda is sort of under some difficulty, particularly in Pakistan. But what we're hearing about this plot, Brooke, suggests this is the old-fashioned type of al Qaeda plot, where operatives are actually sent in, dispatched to the West to launch attacks.

BALDWIN: I see. Therefore, if they're in Spain, they would have to speak Spanish. Paul Cruickshank in Brussels, Paul, thank you.

A couple, man and woman, barges into their neighbor's home with guns, knives, wigs. It's dangerous, it's frightening. Police say this is all because of bath salts. So just what is in these manufactured drugs that is making all these people so crazed?

And the lead negotiator to bring peace to Syria, or so he hoped, now quits. Kofi Annan says he is done out of frustration. So what next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Another frightening case, I read about this morning here, linked to this synthetic drug bath salts.

This middle-aged couple in North Carolina is accused of grabbing guns and knives and breaking into the home of a neighbor who happens to be their former church pastor. The pastor tells this local newspaper "The Gaston Gazette" that he talked the couple into surrendering and then they went in the hallway and prayed.

Folks, this isn't the couple's first run-in with the law. According to CNN affiliate WCNC, this pair had previously taken bath salts and called 911, claiming the people under their house were trying to get in.

We have talked about problems with bath salts, other designer drugs on this show. The stories range from zombie-like attacks to the suicide of a 14-year-old young man using synthetic marijuana for the very first time. And this stuff is spreading across the country.

Poison control centers got 3,200 calls about synthetic drugs in 2010 alone. That number more than quadrupled last year, topping 13,000. So today, I just wanted to look beyond the headlines, get the nitty-gritty here of this designer drug phenomenon.

Here to help me is George Joseph. He's the CEO of the Right Step, which runs chemical treatment programs.

So welcome to you. And first I was trying to get this out of this father who I was talking to on Friday just understanding exactly what's in these drugs. Like, what's in bath salts?

GEORGE JOSEPH, CEO, RIGHT STEP: Brooke, the makeup of the bath salts change so frequently because they're trying to pass their chemicals beyond the law and beyond the drug testing capabilities.

So we're not actually certain what's exactly in it. Mephedrone is one of the chemicals that's making that stuff up. BALDWIN: That is precisely, George, what this father told me when I was talking to him, that -- this is according to him, that these kids are getting rushed to the hospital with problems with their kidneys or whatever else they're suffering, and these hospitals, they don't even have the highly technical equipment to be testing for all these chemicals, because they keep changing. That's a problem.

JOSEPH: Yes, it's a huge black market.

And because it's so accessible and inexpensive, that people are trying these things and not realizing the negative effects that can happen. As we know, 10 to 11 percent of the population's addicted. And once an addicted person tries this, the consequences are so severe.

BALDWIN: I was reading here -- I have a list here of side effects if you take these -- you know, these synthetic drugs, paranoia, hallucinations, delusions, suicidal thoughts, seizures, panic attacks, and the list goes on.

Your facility there, George, at the Right Step, what do you see? And have you seen an uptick in patients?

JOSEPH: The thing that's been most alarming is the tremors, that the folks are coming in with tremors of their hands and shaking, almost Parkinson's-like, and we're not certain how long they're lasting.

Even when they're off of drugs and off of alcohol and sober for 30, 60, 90 days, the tremors are still continuing. So because it's such a new epidemic, we're anxious to see how long some of these folks will be impacted by this usage. And, obviously, at time, when you try it, you don't think of those long-term consequences.

BALDWIN: We were reporting -- and I'm sure you know about it -- the DEA really coming down hard, these drug busts, on these designer drugs, recently, across the country.

And you sort of mentioned it, and I was trying to talk to this father, trying to understand what it is about bath salts and synthetic marijuana that these kids are into. And he told me, the packaging is kind of cool. As you mentioned, they're cheaper. Are they even legal?

JOSEPH: Well, they're legal because they're sold publicly in convenience stores.

I mean, bath salts have been around for a long time. People have taken baths in them. And I don't know where -- the chicken or the egg. Did someone get the word out that said, hey, if you try this, you can get a high, or did the manufacturer say, hey, look, we need to sell more of this product, let's tweak it a little bit to give it these effects?

Because there are some euphoric-type effects, but the negative side of it is so alarming and so dangerous that people don't realize that whatever they're paying for it, the little bit amount of money they're paying for it can cause lifetime effects.

BALDWIN: George, what do you tell a parent? A lot of parents watching this show right now. How do you talk to your son, your daughter about these drugs, and what do you tell them in terms of, just don't do it?

JOSEPH: Well, I think the compassion, the honesty.

A lot of times, obviously, when someone's under the influence, there's not much you can say at the moment. You have got to get them after the effects as soon as you can when they're still maybe remorseful or just coming out of the high.

Get them to a professional right away, because any time they try this, it could be their last breath. And much like the father you were describing, I mean, I'm sure he would have loved to have grabbed that son and said whatever, you know, the day he was leaving to go to wherever he was supposed to be going that day stop him, but you just don't know.

And kids or young people, we're seeing people in their 30s or 40s, or much this couple that walked into their pastor's home, they're all ages, and they're trying it and not realizing what's going to happen. And that's the crazy thing about addiction, is that people don't think about the follow-through, what's going to happen after the fact. They think about that high at that moment.

So as a parent, as a spouse, you know, talk to them with love and compassion. Try to go get them some help, seek help, go to a professional, get assessed, do you have an addiction problem, because people with addiction problems, they like have blinders on. They don't -- they can't even protect themselves.

And, you know, the bath salts and the synthetic marijuana, you know, it harms the person taking it and it harms the people that they're, you know, near. So whatever we can do to get the message out, the drug testing improvements, the legal system, cracking down on it, all we can do to protect the person who's trying it and their families, we have to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Needs to happen. Needs to happen. I just have this father. You know, you just meet people, and I just have this father in my head every single day now, and if only he had known, if only he had talked to his son, it would be so different.

JOSEPH: Yes.

BALDWIN: George Joseph, the CEO of the Right Step, thank you.

JOSEPH: Yes. Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: People standing in long lines, cars wrapped around the block all waiting for a chicken sandwich. They are supporting free speech and giving one company a huge boost in profit. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Millions of people, perhaps yourself included, hunting for jobs and we will soon get brand-new information about the chances of actually getting work.

(FINANCIAL UPDATE)

BALDWIN: You know, many experts say college loan debt may be the next bubble to burst here, as students are just really having a tough time paying off those loans, so they're coming to the CNN Help Desk to get their questions answer.

Hey, Poppy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, everyone.

Here on the Help Desk today, we're talking about how to pay to college.

With me, Donna Rosato and Greg Olson, our two money experts.

Donna, this question came in for you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How bad is it going to be for my children when they go to college? In eight years, he's going off. What is their college debt going to be like and how are we going to pay it down?

HARLOW: That's a question I hear over and over.

DONNA ROSATO, SENIOR EDITOR, "MONEY": Yes. These are scary times.

Today, someone who attends a public school pays $30,000 a year, a private school $60,000 a year. Those are very daunting numbers. The Department of Education says that if the numbers continue in the same rate, within 15 -- by 2016, the payment for a college education, the tab, has doubled in the past 15 years.

But that is the sticker price. You apply for financial aid, you won't have to pay that whole tab. And the key is, this woman has a lot of time. You know, put the money in a 529 plan, where you get tax breaks. Choose the college wisely. We talked about this earlier. You don't have to pay for the most expensive school. State schools often give in-state students tax breaks. And look for other sources of funding, need-based aid, grants, scholarships, those kind of things. Those can really cut your tab.

HARLOW: What do you think, Greg?

GREG OLSEN, LENOX ADVISORS: I remember being a junior in high school and reading "Money" magazine's guide to the best values in education, and I still think there's some great research out there that you can do to pick a college that's going to be the best value out there, so your child is not encumbered with debt when they graduate.

HARLOW: And for what that child or young adult specifically wants to do. That's so important.

ROSATO: There's a great rule of thumb that you should base the amount of debt you take on to what you would expect to earn in the first year after graduating. So a teacher's probably going to be able to take on less debt than say like a pharmacist or an engineer.

OLSEN: One hundred percent.

HARLOW: All right, guys, thank you. Appreciate it.

If you have got a question you want our experts to tackle, you can upload a 30-second video with your Help Desk question to iReport.com.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Poppy Harlow, thank you.

And next, presidential candidates campaigning in two battleground states today focusing on economy and taxes. Will what they say change your vote? We're live in Florida.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Three months, count them, three months now until the November elections. And, today, both the president and Mitt Romney hot on that campaign trail, spending some quality time in swing states.

Let's begin in Florida, where the president is making a campaign stop here in Winter Park.

CNN's Dan Lothian is traveling today with the president.

So, Dan, yesterday, it was the all-important state of Ohio, today, Florida. And we heard just a bit of that speech, talking, once again hammering home the point, I care about middle class America.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

And the president just wrapped up a few minutes ago here. That message continues to be hammered here by the campaign, yesterday in Ohio, today here in Florida, the president pointing out this sharp contrast, he says, between his policies and the policies of his opponent, Mitt Romney, saying that he is looking out for the middle class and Mitt Romney is looking out for the rich.

And a senior campaign official told me that yesterday was a defining day, because the president was able to cite what he calls a nonpartisan report, that Tax Policy report that shows that under Mitt Romney's tax policies, that the middle-class Americans will be hurt, and that the wealthy Americans will benefit.

And the president again repeated that theme here, and this senior campaign official telling me that we can expect the president to continue to hit that over the coming days, because they believe that that message is resonating with voters, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And in the meantime, Mitt Romney in Colorado hitting right back at the president. So he may not be in Florida, but Florida Senator Marco Rubio is. And he is stumping for him today.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

And, of course, he's also a possible running mate for Mitt Romney, but he was here, and not far away from this event earlier today, he held an event where he talked about President Obama in very kind words initially, saying that, you know, the president did inherit a difficult, a bad economy.

But then he turned and said, but the president made that economy worse. He also told voters that under the president's continuing economic policies that their taxes could potentially go up to historic levels. And then in one breath, he again complimented the president and took a jab at him about how his policies have been a disaster. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: He's threatened to raise taxes on people to historic levels. Do you realize that next year when you add up all the taxes that Barack Obama wants to impose on the American economy, and you add in state and local taxes, some people will pay close to half the money they make to the government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LOTHIAN: Now, Brooke, remember how the Romney campaign has also been hitting the president for those comments that he made last month in Virginia, when he was talking to an audience and said that small businesses, you know, if you built a business, you didn't do that on your own, you got help.

And they say that just shows how the president doesn't really understand what it takes to fix the economy. Well, even though the Obama campaign says that those words were taken out of context, the Romney campaign has put up billboards around the Orlando area again repeating those words, using those words, and then having local business owners and other voters giving a rebuttal to those words -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ah, the back and forth, as we mentioned, three more months to go. Dan Lothian for us in Winter Park, Florida, thank you, Dan.

Also mentioned, Mitt Romney today in Colorado. He spoke actually for a moment before giving his speech, talking about that Aurora movie theater shooting, where that gunman killed some 12 people, wounded dozens more. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Her name is McKayla Hicks. You don't know McKayla, but she was involved in that terrible shooting in Aurora. She was hit by a bullet.

She was in the theater next door to the most terrible one and the bullet went into her mouth and took out some teeth and part of her jaw, but she is here and doing well.

I guess maybe by applause we show how united we are with the tragedy of those people, how much we love them, how much we care for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I want to bring in Peter Hamby. He is on the phone, talking to me here from Colorado. An obvious spot for applause for Mitt Romney, talking about that young woman and the victims there from Aurora, but when he then began talking politics and hitting Obama, talking about that report card, how was the applause then, Peter?

PETER HAMBY, POLITICAL REPORTER (via telephone): Yes, I mean, strong. Look, the Colorado voters have to warm up to Mitt Romney. The electoral map for Mitt Romney is not very good.

Simply put, if Barack Obama can hold Virginia and hold Colorado, he can lose a bunch of other states that he lost in 2008. All he has to do is pick up either New Hampshire or Nevada or Iowa and Barack Obama wins re-election. It's that simple.

So, Colorado has to be a state that Mitt Romney has to win and he's really tailoring his message to those suburban, independent voters, those soccer moms in the suburbs around Denver.

He was in Golden, Colorado, today and, after he talked about Aurora, he also talked about this sort of five-point plan what he's going to do if he gets into office, focusing on cutting the deficit, focusing on schools and education, energy, sort of these, you know, these messages tailored right to the independent voter.

Look, a lot of Republicans have said, in recent weeks, that Mitt Romney can't just be against Barack Obama. He's got to outline a plan of his own, so voters have that extra push before they go in the ballot box, give them a reason to vote for Mitt Romney. And he's really trying to hammer home that message today in Colorado, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's listen to part of that message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: I've got to tell you. I can't wait to get to Washington. I can't wait to get there. I'm so excited about getting America working again. I'm so excited about restoring the principles that made this nation the strongest in the world. I don't want to transform America into something it's not. I want to restore to America the principles that made us the hope of the earth. We're going to do it together! We're going to bring back America! Thank you so much! Thank you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: End of the speech, Peter Hamby, do you think after that he got some donors pulling out the checkbooks?

HAMBY (via telephone): Probably. And, Brooke, you make an important point. After that event today, Romney is coming here where I am to Basalt which is just outside of Aspen, Colorado.

Why does that matter? Right now, many, many, many of the biggest donors in Republican politics are meeting in Aspen for the Republican Governor's Association retreat. Romney is going to be at a fundraiser with them later this evening.

You know, all kinds of Republican leaders are here. Karl Rove, the American Crossroads strategist, Ed Gillespie, Romney's top adviser, Foster Friess and Fred Malek might be names that are familiar to some of our viewers as top Republican donors, so he's going to be trying to make some inroads with donors tonight here in ritzy Aspen, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Enjoy ritzy Aspen, Peter Hamby. We appreciate you jumping on the phone with us. Thank you.

Next, a big name drops out of the effort to bring peace to Syria, but he is praised for taking on the quote/unquote "possibly thankless assignment there." All as this comes as the U.S. pledges more aid for Syrian civilians sending an additional $12 million.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Now, to Syria and this.

Yet another blast rocks the city of Aleppo. This is Syria's commercial hub, largest city in Syria, and you see the damage. Really, as of today in Aleppo, it is getting even worse.

Now, south of Aleppo, you have the capital city of Damascus. In fact, let's talk about a Damascus suburb. Video here posted on YouTube shows -- I should say it claims to show these burials in this mass grave here.

You see the ditch, allegedly, after dozens were killed in a government raid. CNN cannot independently verify this video. This was posted online earlier today.

Add to all of this the frustration from this man on the right side of your screen, U.N. peace envoy Kofi Annan. He quit today, saying he's frustrated and I'm quoting him, "with persistent divisions within the U.N. security council," those divisions separating Russia and China who support the Assad regime from the U.S. and France and Britain who would like to get tough on Assad.

I want to bring CNN International's Jim Clancy back to the map, talking once again about Syria and the big news today with regard to Kofi Annan who says he's frustrated. Six-point peace plan, we didn't really get to point number one. Are you really surprised by this?

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It was a mission impossible from the start. Everybody knew it. But imagine how frustrating. He's there before the security council. He's trying to get everyone to cooperate. People are saying, yes, yes, we'll support this. The Syrian government, flat-out, you remember it, the ceasefire was declared, the shells kept flying.

BALDWIN: It was a joke.

CLANCY: It was a joke -- it wasn't a joke. The death toll rose and rose and rose. And in the face of this, he's trying to do everything. Members of the security council, including the United States, revealed today we're giving clandestine aid through the CIA, to the rebel side.

They say it's not deadly force, but there's a lot of people in there who are supplying a lot of deadly force, whether it's Qatar and Saudi Arabia, whether it's Turkey or someone else.

On the Assad side, you've got the Russians. They're feeding in more arms and supplies to them. We've seen the militarization of this conflict at a time when Kofi Annan was trying to say, let's sit down and talk politics and compromise.

BALDWIN: Talk to me. We've been talking so much this week about this major city of Aleppo, this really historically significant city, as well. But in terms of today, what's been going on just north of Aleppo?

CLANCY: Just up here along the Turkish border, Syrian forces are trying to cut some of the supply lines. Now, that to them is how you're going to cut off rebels so they don't have this confidence that they might even be able to hold that major city.

BALDWIN: When you say "supply" ...

CLANCY: What I mean is more arms, more ammunition. Yes, they are getting some of it from the Syrian forces themselves here when they took that military base, these shells. They used some of that heavy weaponry ...

BALDWIN: Actually tanks.

CLANCY: ... and they actually shelled an air base today. So, we see a growing militarization here and with that only comes more of those massacres that you showed there had, massacres attributed, you know, outright killings, attributed to the opposition, to the Free Syrian Army.

BALDWIN: There's been a lot of talk and I had a guest on the show yesterday who's writing a book called "The Fall of the House of Assad." He's met Bashar al-Assad multiple times and, just knowing him, he said there is no way he will leave if it's not in a body bag.

And part of perhaps Kofi Annan's frustration, it sounds like, is there really is no "Plan B," in terms of transition of power -- I know I'm jumping ahead -- but post-Assad regime.

CLANCY: There is no "Plan B." Now, they are going to try to appoint someone else to succeed Kofi Annan, but I can't imagine raising their hand to say, I'll take on that job.

BALDWIN: To be the this negotiator with China and Russia and U.S.

CLANCY: Exactly. But now, how do all these ethnic, sectarian groups, how do they coordinate? How do they negotiate? How do they find a way out of it, even if Bashar al-Assad, in the end, and I'm not sure he's going.

You know, we don't even know if he's going to lose yet. He's still got a lot of military that he can throw against this opposition. This is going to get a lot nastier and a lot bloodier and, even if he leaves tomorrow, this is far from being sorted out. There's no plan in place, like you know.

BALDWIN: Jim Clancy, thank you.

CLANCY: All right.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

And police, they arrest a man. They search him, put him in handcuffs, place him in a patrol car, so how is it that he winds up shot in the head? We're "On the Case."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Think about this one. How can a man with his hands cuffed behind his back shoot himself in the head? This is no hypothetical. This happened. Police in Jonesboro, Arkansas, say Saturday inside the back of a police car, this is precisely what went down.

The police report shows officers detained Chavis Carter, who was 21 years of age, on suspicion of having drugs and searched him twice before leaving him in the backseat.

This incident report says the officer -- and I'm quoting -- "felt several thumps on my trunk. We" -- meaning he and this second officer -- "went to the rear passenger side door, opened it, and observed Carter in a sitting position, slumped forward with his head in his lap. There was a large amount of blood on the front of his shirt, pants, seat and floor. His hands were still cuffed behind his back."

Carter's mother is not buying a word of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA CARTER, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM: I can't see how. I can't see how.

UNIDENTIFIED FENAKE: What do you think happened to your son?

CARTER: I think they killed him. I mean, what else happened?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow. Criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson is "On the Case" with us. Joey, you hear this. What's your reaction?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, tough story, Brooke. It's improbable and highly unlikely. You know, whenever a police officer detains or arrests someone, they're responsible for their care, custody, and control.

And when you have a breakdown of this magnitude, people are right to ask questions. And when you look at the facts, things just don't add up. If you evaluate it, you can even look and say, not only was he handcuffed, but if he was shot, he's shot in the right temple. He's left-handed.

You know, anything that you look at here, how on earth could it potentially and possibly happen? But I think what we're going to see is we're going to see a reconstruction of this whole incident We're going to see the proximity examined to where the gun actually was when it hit his head, unfortunately. They'll look at a paraffin test, a gun powder residue test, and they'll also examine the trajectory and the angle of the bullet to see how it entered or exited.

So, there'll be a forensic examination, to be sure, so we can get real answers here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: But before they examine that, the question that proceeds that is, how did the gun get in the car in the first place? Here's what police say -- which, by the way, the gun was stolen. Here's what Jonesboro police say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEANT LYLE WATERWORTH, JONESBORO POLICE: Any given officer has missed something on a search, you know, be it drugs, be it knives, be it razor blades. This instance happened to be a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Police chief tells CNN the investigators have an eyewitness who saw the entire thing happen. The chief says that this witness saw that his officers -- I'm going to quote him -- "never pulled their guns out and they never did anything."

So, if it turns out that these officers failed to find the gun, can then -- we heard from Carter's mother -- can the family sue? JACKSON: Oh, absolutely, Brooke, you're going to see that. And why? Because you would expect, there's an indication that the search was done here, not once, but twice.

And there's a saying in law, and especially in negligence law, because this would be a negligence wrongful death action and it says the risk perceived is the duty to find.

Obviously, you search for a weapon so that the police can be safe and, of course, the person who here now is the decedent could be safe. So, the mother has a lot of questions. The community does. We all do.

And I think ultimately a lawsuit will be pursued and, hopefully, those questions will be answered soon enough.

BALDWIN: It's a tough story, to quote you. Joey Jackson, "On the Case" with us. Joey, appreciate it.

JACKSON: A pleasure, Brooke.

Pop-up summer showers bring flash flooding, major damage in the heart of the Big Apple. Severe weather expert Chad Myers talking about it. Look at that sinkhole. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. We've got some news just in to us. You see these live pictures. This is from our affiliate KTVI. We're looking at a pretty bad accident. This is Litchfield, Illinois. And, so, this helicopter's kind of moving around.

You see on the right side of your screen there's a couple if Medevac helicopters. Count them with me. One, two, three, I believe we saw a fourth.

Here's what we know. You see all the ambulance presence, police presence. They're all on the scene. This charter tour bus was involved in some sort of crash. This is I-55, again, near Litchfield, Illinois. This is the southbound lane of 55. If you know the area, this is near mile marker 57.

And there's the bus. It looks -- Chad Myers, you're standing next to me. And you see people carrying the stretchers. OK, I'm looking at my e-mail as I'm talking to you.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, there's one moving now. But there's an awful lot of empty stretchers that I'm seeing. So they're still pulling these people off. What's curious is that these Medevac helicopters have turned their engines off. The blades have stopped. That's a little bit curious to me.

BALDWIN: OK. Andres, I've got it. So, here's what we know now. This is from Illinois state police. This happened because the bus here apparently blew a tire. This is according to state police. You see them loading up someone into one of these Medevac helicopters. So, apparently this bus blew a tire, slammed into the bridge and 20 ambulances are on the scene, four Medevac helicopters and, as far as how many were on that bus, how many people were injured, we do not know.

But clearly, just based upon what -- you know, having covered scenes like this in person, you know it's not a good scene when you see all these ambulances, all these crews.

Look at that across the median here in the highway. So we'll keep an eye on it. We'll let you know as soon as we get anymore here again from Litchfield, Illinois.

I do want to move along for now and tell you about this massive sinkhole. Just about -- look at this car. Look at this car just about swallowed. Two tires in there, dangling into the sink coal. This is Brooklyn.

A woman says she and her daughter were inside the car just five minutes before that sinkhole opened up. They got out to walk their dog. Chad Myers, how does this happen?

MYERS: That has nothing to do with the weather.

BALDWIN: Nothing to do with the weather?

MYERS: No. This is a sewer pipe put under the ground in 1900. It's now 112 years old, literally.

BALDWIN: Wow.

MYERS: Was leaking slowly enough that no one really saw it go. Washing away the dirt slowly, slowly, slowly.

This is not the first one on the same street in the same neighborhood. This pipe is so old it's in bad shape. It's pretty deep. And now these people were driving and all of the sudden there was no ground under them. The road literally went away.

BALDWIN: Look at the crowd, standing around and watching. I would be, too, wondering how the heck this happened in my neighborhood.

You say this was instance number two. If this is a pipe issue, if I live in that neighborhood, I'm going to be frustrated and I'm going to want it fixed.

MYERS: And you're probably going to see people with chains, big heavy chains, banging them on the concrete and on the asphalt, seeing if they can hear a hollow sound and then realizing that that hollow sound is there because there's no dirt under the road. And then that would be the next place to go.

BALDWIN: OK. Sinkhole in Brooklyn. Thank you very much.

MYERS: You're welcome. BALDWIN: Again, let's take those live pictures, again. We are watching some pictures of the bus as this helicopter is zooming out. We are still making calls here on this accident, Litchfield, Illinois, 20 ambulances on the scene.

You see those helicopters, four in total, and, according to state police, multiple injuries. We don't know exactly how many. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Spoiler alert here. We are getting results now in from this afternoon's Olympic events. If you do not want to hear them, put your television on mute right now. Let me give you a couple seconds, a couple beats to do that.

OK, here's the deal. Just in, U.S. swimmer Tyler Clary was a surprise winner of the gold in the 200-meter backstroke. Also, Ryan Lochte finished third, taking home the bronze medal in that race. To the men's 200-individual-medley, American Michael Phelps won his 16th Olympic gold, 20th overall. Congrats to him. Lochte scored the silver.

And American Rebecca Soni set another world record today. She defended her 200-meter breaststroke title and she won the gold. In fact, we just aired a story with her. Sanjay Gupta caught up with her. She's overcome quite a bit, including undergoing surgery on her heart. So, congratulations to all of them.

Before we let you go, I want to take you back here, live pictures Litchfield, Illinois. You are looking at a horrendous scene in the middle of this median here. This is I-55. This is near mile marker 57. And right there, you see this bus.

This a charter bus and, according to state police, this bus blew a tire and, after doing so, slammed into that center span there on the bridge. And you see these paramedics scrambling. Looks like perhaps that's the front end of the bus, Chad Myers, that slammed into that span. Twenty ambulances on the scene, four Medevac choppers.

MYERS: Yeah, we just saw one person loaded into the helicopter and that helicopter has taken off for some place. The support in the middle you were talking about, that span, that support here in the middle, that is actually knocked off of its foundation.

It hit so hard that the concrete has actually moved away. You can see that that is really -- that bus took the impact right where that driver would have been sitting.

BALDWIN: Obviously, when you look at the scene right here with me ,you know there are injuries. We don't know specifics, as far as numbers or severity of injuries, but we are making calls.

And we're thinking about these people who were on this charter bus, again, Litchfield, Illinois, just traveling along when this bus had an issue with the tire and slammed into this bridge. With that, I have to turn things over to Washington. I'm Brooke Baldwin, thank you so much for being with me here on this Thursday.

Now, to Candy Crowley in for Wolf. Your "SITUATION ROOM" begins right now.