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Possible Breakthrough In Boston Bombing Case

Aired April 17, 2013 - 13:59   ET


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers from around the world, joining CNN's continuous coverage.

We have breaking news in the investigation here in Boston of the marathon attacks. I'm joined by Juliette Kayyem and John King.

What is the latest?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're told Fran Townsend has a federal source -- I have a Boston law enforcement source saying that arrest -- an arrest has been made. Now that is a dramatic breakthrough. We're waiting for more information. I was told earlier this morning that an operation was underway after they had clearly identified a suspect. The breakthrough came, remember, just last night when we were talking about how much progress they had made in the how and exactly when, but they hadn't gotten to the who.

I'm told that based on a video camera -- Lord & Taylor department store is just a few blocks from here. That based on a video camera from that store fixed on the location of the second bombing, directly across the street essentially from the second bombing, that they finally got what they were looking for, video analysis showing an individual, a male I'm told, showing up and placing the black bag with the explosive device in it. Then, because of the video enhancement technology, mostly from the department store, I'm told some video from a Boston television station also contributed to this. They clearly identified a suspect, a single suspect. And now we are told from sources that an arrest has been made. A briefing is scheduled for later this evening. Obviously still a lot of questions.


CUOMO: So let's reset here chronologically so far. Do we know at what point they wound up identifying somebody? Do we know a time window? What horizon we're within?

KING: I don't know exactly the time window. I can tell you that I was on as late as -- just before 10:00 last night with Anderson Cooper, and just an hour or so before that I had talked to a Boston source who said, we're stymied at the moment. We're doing a great job with the forensics. We know how these bombs worked. We got - you know, we know about their power. We have a very good idea of the timing obviously because of all the video. But as to the who part, this source said they were stymied. So clearly from yesterday evening into the overnight hours, in analyzing this additional video, they were all day yesterday, they were canvassing through the neighborhood. CUOMO: Right.

KING: Remember, it's a holiday. The stores were closed and the like on Monday when this took place. So they're going in, saying what do you got, what do you got, and then having to look at reams of evidence and so many millions of frames of video and finally they got what they were looking for.

CUOMO: Now, Fran, to help us clarify this, Fran Townsend, just to take this half step back, they're looking at video, they've been asking everybody, call 1-800-FBI and they get video from Lord & Taylor. They look at it. They see somebody who puts down a bag that approximates what they believe was holding the bomb. They identify him as a brown-skinned individual. Then through what, Fran, do they wind up figuring out who that man is in the video and arresting him?

All right -


MAYOR THOMAS MENIINO, BOSTON: We've made some progress on all the - on the videos they have. There are more videos on this one than any case the FBI ever had, especially across from Lord & Taylor is where the --


KAYYEM: Town today because it was vacation and he said, yes, leave town, this is -- you know, this is going to be a long story. So something good happened between midnight and essentially noon today. And the good is --

CUOMO: But help me clarify this part, though, Juliette, help me to clarify this, because it's going to be confusing for folks watching us right now.


CUOMO: They see somebody on the video.


CUOMO: They say, look what he just did. That's our guy.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: How do we go from that to arrest?

KAYYEM: How do you get that - well, OK. So we don't know who this individual is. So I'm going to be cautious. This is generic law enforcement 101.

CUOMO: Generic.

KAYYEM: That person may have already been known to either federal, state or local law enforcement for a variety of reasons. That person might have been part of a community of which they were already known to that community and people had already come forward and said, hey, since Monday, we haven't seen this guy.

Now, we are being very cautious and speculative at this stage. But people are known to law enforcement for a lot of reasons, including prior arrests. So law enforcement has a lot of pictures of us for passports and all sorts of other reasons if they're on a search like this. So that's generic, how would you find this person. Now, determining where he is, if they in fact have him, would have just been following a lot of clues that they were getting.

See, what we don't know from the outside is, they may have been getting a lot of not just eyewitness tips about what was happening here, but, hey, there was someone who used to live here who doesn't live here anymore. Hey, there's some guy in hiding over here. They're getting all sorts of stuff. So I want to just say, if all of this unfolds as quickly as we think, at 5:00 today with an announcement, it's been a long two days, but that's pretty remarkable.

CUOMO: But also know this, keeping a calm mind as we go through this -


CUOMO: Everybody wants to know who did this. It's so terrible. It's so wrong. However, an arrest does not mean guilt necessarily.

KAYYEM: Right. They are -- let me just tell you, though. On a high profile case like this, they are not going to make this big of a mistake without sufficient evidence that this is the guy.

CUOMO: It's happened before.

KAYYEM: I has happened before.

CUOMO: It's happened before.

KAYYEM: I agree with you. But let me just say, there is a certain -- because it has happened before, a lot of lessons have been learned about how we're going to go forward, how the government is going to go forward in these cases.

Now, who he is and who he - I always say this, who he thinks he is, in other words, people may be part of a group or they may think that they're part of a group, right? His affiliation to either domestic or international folks or organizations will have to be shown in court.

CUOMO: Important - important point. We're hearing about one individual right now, one arrest.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: No understanding really, even though this vague description of brown skin, whether foreign or domestic, whether they're part of an organization or a lone wolf, we don't know any of that, correct, John?

KING: The sources I talked to this morning would not go there when I asked about motive.


KING: And they essentially shut down the questioning when I said, so you have one individual suspect. Are there other suspects? I was essentially told, we have one person in focus. That's our focus right now. We're going to try to apprehend that suspect that we -- they did concede they had clearly identified. We are now told an arrest has been made.

But these are all great questions, including the point about, you know, they say, they say, and we're - these are from reputable sources. Fran's are federal sources. I have a Boston law enforcement source and someone who has been briefed in detail on the investigation who says the video, the enhanced video analysis is indisputable of an individual showing up and placing the bag.

But you make a key point, an arrest leads to what we believe will be a criminal prosecution, which opens up a whole host of questions.

KAYYEM: And can I say on that point, that is why the last couple of days, when we've been talking about the response --

CUOMO: Hold on one second, Juliette.


CUOMO: Just in terms of understanding where we are. According to the AP, the suspect has been taken by U.S. marshals to a federal courthouse. OK, that's obvious procedure. This is a federal crime.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: It's being done by federal agencies. Federal marshals would be the right service agent for this suspect. And taking him to the courthouse. Well, they're following the steps. That's not unanticipated. Continue your point.

KAYYEM: Right. Right. So on the evidentiary part, we've been talking about this. So a lot of compliments for the response at the marathon, which was sort of, you know, obviously a shock to everyone. The reason why is because we now -- the government now has to build a case against this individual. And that best case is going to be evidence, it's going to be the sort of visual evidence of who he was and did he put this bomb down or this explosive down. But also all this material over here.

CUOMO: Right.

KAYYEM: So that's why they've been so pristine, that's why it was so important to get all those runners off.

CUOMO: And, interestingly, this morning, very early, 2:00, 2:30, that site of the second explosion, lots of people in white jump suits walking around, around the mailbox, much busier than the other location.

KING: Which would lead you to believe that they went -- circled back after seeing something in the investigation.

I also want to make clear, Chris, you know we're saying -- we know -- Fran has a federal source saying an arrest has been made. I have a Boston law enforcement source saying, you know, that that operation was underway, heading toward an arrest and believe that (INAUDIBLE). There's, as always, there's some conflicting information about this.


KING: And one of our justice producers is saying he's hearing information that there's not an arrest yet. Apprehension, an arrest, Miranda rights being processed. These can all mean different things to different people in the cloud of this. But I am told by a Boston law enforcement source that they believe that they have the suspect.

CUOMO: To reset it for everybody, with Anderson Cooper here now, word of an arrest here in the Boston Marathon attacks. We have heard that U.S. federal marshals have taken this suspect to the courthouse. That would be obvious procedure in a federal investigation. We believe it all started with videotape that they were analyzing from a store across the street from the second explosion. We believe it was a Lord & Taylor. A man was identified putting down something that officials believe approximated the type of bag that was holding what they thought was an explosive device in one of these that we've been showing you all morning, one of these pressure cookers. And they found him. We're not exactly sure. We're not knowing what the procedure was, what they cross referenced to find this particular individual. Juliette and John were saying, may have been a known person or some other device, but now in custody.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Right. And also, John, it wasn't just the one video. We believe there was a second video that authorities were also using, correct?

KING: I was told by the source who was briefed on the investigation that the major breakthrough came from the department store, Lord & Taylor, which is very close to the second explosion location. They said they had a very clear image of a suspect making the drop. That's the way it was described to me, making the placement of the black bag and then backing away and leaving the site.

But I was told that some additional video provided to authorities by a Boston television station, which was doing some live reporting and other taping, we used to call it filming in the old days -


KING: Taping in the area had also provided some video that was very useful as part of that enhanced video analysis. So I was told the department store was the key element, but that there was some additional video provided by a Boston television station. And then they enhanced it and that technology has improved so dramatically in recent years, in part because of, you know, post 9/11 investigations and other criminal investigations that they said they were able to get in to a very close image to clearly identify a suspect.

COOPER: Do we know at what hour he was actually arrested? Because I saw an e-mail from you earlier this morning, really, saying you had a source who was saying there had been significant developments.

KING: Significant developments and then afterwards (ph) to actually apprehend the suspect. We know the suspect had been clearly identified. And I want to tell you, as we have at this hour, the Associated Press, another news organization, is reporting a suspect has been brought to the courthouse. We have some other sources saying there may be an operation underway, but questioning whether an actual arrest has been made.

Fran Townsend, who has excellent sources in federal law enforcement and national security issues, is told by a federal source an arrest has been made. I was told by a Boston law enforcement source, we got him. So there's a - yes.

COOPER: There -

CUOMO: We need an abundance of caution here -

COOPER: Right.

CUOMO: Because there couldn't be a more prejudicial arrest to have on you right now than this one.

COOPER: Absolutely.

CUOMO: When this man's face is seen, when, you know, his name gets out, and that's a whole issue, do we report the name or not, you have to get this right.

COOPER: The other question is, is there more than one suspect.

CUOMO: Right.

COOPER: Was more than one person? The fact that a timing device was involved, though, could very easily be one person.

KING: And the question is, is there one person who did this. And this is the actual make and mode of that pressure cooker that (INAUDIBLE). One person who did this completely on their own? Was there someone else who knew? Was somehow part of maybe the education, if you will? So those are the questions that law enforcement will ask. When I asked my sources this morning, I was told we have one suspect. We are focused on him. We have a breakthrough in the investigation. They is where we're going. They just shut down -- they didn't say yes or no to whether there could have been anyone else. They just essentially shut down the questioning. And when I tried to ask about motive, essentially they said we're at a point in the investigation we want to get the suspect, talk to the suspect and then we'll deal with those questions.

CUOMO: I've also been told single arrest and that it happened very quickly, which we were talking about before, trying to figure out how that is possible.

KAYYEM: Right. Yes.

COOPER: Well, we were just talking about last night, Juliette -

KAYYEM: That's right.

COOPER: This potentially being something that goes on for months and months when you looked at the Atlantic Park bombing -

KAYYEM: Right.

COOPER: The Olympic Park bombing back in the mid-'90s, that - that was something which, I mean was a long time.

KAYYEM: Right. And that was the remarkable part of the press - I mean think about the press conference yesterday at 5:00 where we were all remarking -

COOPER: Right.

KAYYEM: And right -- and I think it - I think they did this in a good way was, look, we need your pictures, we need this film. The media apparently was the second sort of visual that got this guy. And so that all coming together was both a unique way but a really interesting way in which they were sort of engaging the public in helping us find or helping them find whoever it is who they have today.

COOPER: Also, if they're able -- the fact that they were able to sort of realize this was not a device which could have been set a day or two in advance -

KAYYEM: Right, that was always -

COOPER: And this was not a device which could have been laying out there for long - for many, many hours. It allowed them to kind of whittle down the actual hour that they were looking at.

CUOMO: Right.

KING: And one of the -- one of their operating assumptions was that this is someone who worked out - they knew you have dignitaries, a lot more focus on the finish line when the elite runners are crossing and then there's sort of a changing of the crowd, if you will.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: Right.

KING: You know, people who are your average marathon runners, who finish in four hours or so. You know, everyday people. And you have the some of the families who are around at that point.

CUOMO: The largest number of people.

KING: The largest number of people crossing. You know, the elite runners are gone, a lot of the dignitaries are gone and the Boston Police and the others are saying that that - their security operations do not lapse. However, there is a changing of the crowd, if you will (INAUDIBLE).


COOPER: We should let our viewers know, you're looking at live aerials of the courthouse. We're looking for -

KAYYEM: It's not far from here.

COOPER: Yes, which we're looking for, obviously, any kind of movement, if the suspect has, in fact, been brought there.

KAYYEM: Right. I mean I think, you know, John and I, we've been talking here all week about sort of what happens at that finish line. And we got hints yesterday that they clearly believed then, and it's confirmed by this device, that somebody has been here for some time, who knows, a week, maybe they lived here, put the device together, walked it over, knew the marathon pretty well, knew when it got poris (ph), because, as John was saying, it's very tight with those elite runners and then family members, sort of the average runners come forward and place them there. Sort that - they - we sort of knew that this was a Boston story. Who knows where this guy is from. Who knows who his affiliates are. But this has been -- and the investigation was essentially probably all done here.

CUOMO: Hey, why did the device have to have been put there so recently?

KAYYEM: (INAUDIBLE) transport -

CUOMO: And notwithstanding the video. Notwithstanding the video and what they say?

KAYYEM: You wouldn't (INAUDIBLE) transport something. I mean this is not sophisticated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I'm (INAUDIBLE) to the right. I'll double back. I'll double back.

KAYYEM: But it's also, you know, a device that could explode relatively easily. If you wanted to transport - first of all, you would never put it on the airplane. You couldn't get it on to an airplane. If you wanted to transport it, even in a car, you know, the shaking could detonate it.

This was not a suicide bomber.


KAYYEM: And it was not a suicide bomber. He's -- it was, you know, sort of cowardly way to bomb.

COOPER: You also have a highly, you know, a highly secured area -

KAYYEM: Right.

COOPER: Where dignitaries are going to be, and so there are security sweeps in the days, even on that day.

KAYYEM: Right.

COOPER: And so it has to be in the last several hours.

KAYYEM: Yes, and I used - I mean I used to do security when I worked for the governor of the Boston Marathon and so people have been talking a lot about bags. There were so many bags. Anyone who's seen a marathon, you know, its -- there are lots of bags, right? And so the chances are nothing was left well before the marathon, but someone would easily drop a bag during it.

CUOMO: Juliette, we have Deb Feyerick on the phone, is that true?



CUOMO: Yes. Deb, if you can hear me, you spoke to - you spoke to a photographer who was near the suspect. Tell me the situation.

I'm not hearing Deb right now.




CUOMO: Yes, Deborah, can you hear us? Deborah, can you hear us? It's Chris Cuomo.

FEYERICK: Yes, hi, Chris. Hi, Chris. Hi, everyone.

We -- the pictures that you are probably showing on air right now, it's of a man who seems to be running from the location. And what makes this picture so interesting, and why the FBI has been asking the gentleman who shot it, is because the man ran away from the blast virtually at the moment -- second after it detonated. And the positioning of the body, his -- the way he had faced and angled, it's (INAUDIBLE) that the FBI are looking at to try to understand.

The man who took that picture works in the building next door and he's been snapping photographs all day and decided to sort of wander over to the scene, wander over to the window at that moment and then he picked up his camera. That's when he heard the blast. And he recorded about 12 different snapshots of this individual running from the scene. And so we know that the FBI has spoken to him several times, questioning him as to what he may have seen. But it happened so quickly, it's just -- the positioning of the body, the man actually jumps over a woman who has fallen on the ground and behavior -- the way he's moving, the way he's acting, he's running away from (INAUDIBLE), that's all something that's under investigation by the FBI at this moment.

COOPER: Deb, you talked to the person who took these images. At the time, did he notice anything about that person or was he just videotaping the scene without realizing what he had captured?

FEYERICK: That's what's so incredible about this. He said that the explosion happened and it was deafening and everyone was in shock. If you look at the people who are around this -- that one image of the man who's sort of coming through the smoke, everyone was stunned, except this one individual. He didn't know what he was looking at.

Photographer Ben Garnet (ph) didn't even know what he was looking at. It wasn't until he actually got home, Chris, that he downloaded those images and realized that there was something on there that simply didn't fit. That wasn't consistent with the responses of everybody else. The FBI has not identified any names, has not spoken to anybody, but what's fascinating about this entire investigation in a way is that they're re-creating everything through the images. So it's almost as if they had thousands of witnesses, each of whom may have seen this one sliver, one snapshot that pieces together the whole of what went on there.

But, no, he didn't even realize what he was looking at because it happened so fast. But we do know he was turned away from the blast and running within a second of it going off.

CUOMO: Well, first of all, it's amazing that this man took it upon himself to go back and review the photos because he had this instinct about it, literally a normal citizen reaching out may have helped fell (ph) the investigation.

But just to clarify, Deb, you're sure that federal officials have been meeting with him, have this photo in their possession? It's something that they have reviewed?

FEYERICK: They actually - we do. They spoke with the photographer, Ben Garnet (ph), at least three times. They asked him about the photographs. And they have reviewed these photographs to see whether in fact they're consistent with images that they're now piecing together through others.

Now, certain snapshots that are circulating at the highest levels of individuals, people with interest who may have been identified. So how the FBI has their names, how they were able to join on the actual identity, that is clearly good work on their part.

But we do know that, in fact, that he was interviewed. But, again, when something happens that fast, people react differently. Maybe this individual was just trying to run, get away from it. But if you look very closely, at everyone around him, the way they're holding their ears, the way they're stunned or flattened, you can tell that this is just out - it's out of context. It's not an ordinary behavior for what we're talking about at that moment.

COOPER: Deborah, we understand authorities -- another video that's been instrumental, is this video that was taken outside or near the Lord & Taylor department store. Do you know where this -- the person you talked to, this - we've been showing where that camera was in relation to the camera by the Lord & Taylor?

FEYERICK: The camera that he was pointing out, this was right by the finish line. The man works at a building that's positioned right at the finish line, and so he was focused out. So, I'm not 100 percent clear in terms of what the juxtaposition is, but, again, one thing that has to be kept in mind as well, is this was the first blast to occur, and then they have to piece together whether it would have been possible for a single individual to detonate the two devices at the same time or whether in fact there were men in the crowd communicating with each other about dropping their packages and then moving off. So (INAUDIBLE) are sort of items that they've got to cross off their list.

KAYYEM: Can I -- can I just say something. So this is - I shouldn't say this on TV, but this is a good time when TV unfolds, wait, maybe faster. So there is a difference between identification, which everyone can confirm now, right? Everyone is saying that, and whether there is an arrest. And the arrest is significant because the 5:00 p.m. presser, which is now confirmed, is going to tell us either we have the guy, or it's going to say, we need your help finding the guy. And that's significant for the public, for our sense of safety here. So this may be - look very different in about an hour if we learn there has been no arrest.

CUOMO: Right.

KAYYEM: But the good news is, is that at least there's an identification of an individual. So this is something -

CUOMO: Well, a suspect can be taken into custody without an arrest.

KAYYEM: Right. So this is all the terminology. But the - the key point here is, no one can confirm right now, at least a public official is confirming right now, that there is actually an individual who is in custody - about something - with something legal about to happen to him. And until we know that, then the 5:00 p.m. is really relevant because either we're going to learn, we got him, which is great - now just for the sense of safety and, wow, that was only 48 hours, or we're going to need your help finding him or he's long gone, right?

COOPER: It is extraordinary, just the omnipresence of cell phone cameras, how it has changed everything.

KAYYEM: Right. Right. And that's what they used -

COOPER: And it appears aided in this investigation.

KAYYEM: And that's what they knew. I mean they -- when they came out on Monday, and then Tuesday it was just particularly sort of - I - desperate is the wrong word. It was just sort of asking people to come forward.

COOPER: There had been a lot of concern yesterday afternoon that though they were learning more about the device itself, the devices themselves -

KAYYEM: Right.

COOPER: That they didn't have -- they weren't very far along on any kind of suspect. Now whether or not they had some information then that they weren't giving out or the break was made subsequent to that afternoon press conference, we don't know.

KAYYEM: Right, exactly. I mean I -- by the time I finally went to sleep at about midnight, I had had a conference with someone in Boston Police who sort of implied that this was going to be a long haul and everyone should get some sleep.

CUOMO: Well, 30 different government agencies involved. One very easily could be just obsessing over this make - this manufacturer, where they were sold.


CUOMO: But at the same time, if you're processing the video and you see an image and it cross references with this photo -

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: Then it has really nothing to do with the pressure cooker, you identified it independently.


CUOMO: You made the point about the arrest, though, that we should take a second on because if there is an arrest, that means that they found more than identification. They found probable cause for this. And that's a pretty legitimate legal standing.

KAYYEM: That's what I was saying. And that's what I was saying. You know, everyone is watching. I have enough confidence in government having served in it that there's not going to be a very public screw- up. And so that's why I'm going to stand here being somewhat cautious about what we know in terms of a specific arrest, as compared to knowing who the individual is.

Now, this is going to unfold in a half hour, an hour. People will know a lot more in sort of a short time. But unless we can say --

CUOMO: And they could bring him in without an arrest. It could be an interview.

KAYYEM: Right. No arrest.

CUOMO: He could have consented to it. KAYYEM: Well, he could have consented to it. But the kinds of leaks - the kinds of information that's going out is, it would be -- let's just say there's - there's a performance factor going on here for the government as well.

CUOMO: Right.

KAYYEM: That they, you know, they had a good response. But, you know, people are -- people involved here, the JTTF, the FBI, the Department of Justice, this White House, they are not going to put someone forward and then say, oh, sorry, 48 hours later.

CUOMO: You hope not.

KAYYEM: So let's just - let's just -- we should be a little bit cautious until we actually know that there's a person in custody. And why this is relevant is, if there's still someone on the loose, I don't want to say this person's going to do something again, it's just - we're going to need the public again to tell us, as we have in other cases, maybe you've seen him, maybe you saw him leaving Boston. You know, this city emptied out since Monday and (INAUDIBLE) terrorist attack that we have hundreds of thousands of people here during the Boston Marathon. A lot of people are gone. And so if that person is not here, they may be long gone.

COOPER: There are also people still in the hospital, still in critical condition, who may have seen something who were very close to the device when it went off.

KAYYEM: Yes. Right. Right.

COOPER: In fact, those closest to the device, the ones who were most injured, and therefore they may be a font of information down the road.

KAYYEM: Right.

So, yes, so it's very possible that we have all this information and we actually know who the individual is between the picture and previous information that we have about this person. And as I was saying before, just general law enforcement, you're going to track a picture down, you might have a picture of someone, they might be a part of a community that has been sort of, you know, worried where this person has gone. I'll be, you know, sort of vague here. And the capture of that person. And until -- we don't want to get too far ahead of this because this actually has significance for the capture of this person.


KAYYEM: If he is free, if he is out and about, the public needs to know who it is.

CUOMO: Right. And also, remember, just to take a half a step back -


CUOMO: This has accelerated incredibly quickly. I mean even by John, who's obviously been ahead on the reporting, John King, within the span of an hour and a half, we went from them saying on videotape, they identified somebody putting down a bag, right, they said, well, we know the individual is a brown-skinned male. That's what they said.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: A lot of people get offended. Oh, why are you describing him like that. Within an hour and a half, we then get word he's in custody.

KAYYEM: Right.

CUOMO: So, obviously, we went from something vague to specific if this is all right.

KAYYEM: And he - yes. Yes.

COOPER: The other question is, remember two days ago there was that BOLO, that be on the lookout alert to law enforcement for somebody in a dark sweatshirt with a black bag who had attempted to gain access to a secure area and then had turned around, apparently with a foreign accent. We have no idea if that correlates to the person that seems to be a suspect at this point.

KAYYEM: Yes. In fact (ph) - I mean what - right and this (INAUDIBLE). To what the government has going for it now is at least a sense of competency, right, that this has been handled in a really -- by local, state and federal law enforcement in a really measured, sane way. It's very scary for those of us who live here, what happened. The response was good. The investigation's been very open and public.

To make an arrest that they don't have enough on is just -- I'm pretty confident that's not going to happen because if the public loses confidence in what is going on, they're going to lose confidence in, I think, in our safety and security, and that's not something any government official wants.

COOPER: Obviously the person, if they have been arrested or when they are arrested has -- is read their Miranda rights, has the same rights as any other criminal - any other criminal defendant.

KAYYEM: Right. This is good old-fashioned - this is the big debate (ph), right, this is good old-fashioned law enforcement and it actually works in a lot of these cases.

COOPER: Even though it's described as an act of terrorism, they still have all the same rights as everybody else.

KAYYEM: We have terror - we have criminal terrorism statutes.

COOPER: The other - I mean so many questions then, once they've identified this person to answer, you know, did this person act alone? Did this person place the device alone and yet have cohorts who helped them manufacture the device.

CUOMO: He doesn't have to answer any of that.

COOPER: Of course.

KAYYEM: Right, he doesn't have to answer any of it, but there's enough -

COOPER: But that's what the investigation -that's where the investigation will go.

KAYYEM: Right. But, Chris, I mean these are also sort of hypothetical - I mean he will be in law enforcement custody. There are a lot of ways to entice people to speak. There are a lot of ways to -- if you actually have an individual, to determine who or - who he has been with or other --

COOPER: Right, where that person lives, what their neighbors have seen, who come and went from the apartment, phone records.

KAYYEM: Right. Right. And let's just say one of the - I mean this was not a suicide bomber, right? So this is a person with a lot of motives that might be able to be used by good law enforcement to get other information out. This is not someone who wanted to die for the cause. So that means there's sort of a weak link there.

COOPER: It is very possible - and, again, we don't want to go down the road of speculation, but it is very possible, if this was done with some sort of political agenda, some sort of desire to make a statement, that person may very well want -- may want to continue to make a statement using their own words.

KAYYEM: Right. And they may have that -- a lot of people believe that they are part of an organization of which that organization has no idea that they're a part, right? A lot of people have delusions. A lot of crazy people. So if we learn that they believe that they're --

CUOMO: This is (INAUDIBLE) what - Juliette's been saying this from the beginning, that sometimes people think they're acting in direction of a cause that they're really not even a part of.

KAYYEM: Right. Right. I mean people have delusions of grandeur. And so we have to be very cautious about his representation of who he is, right? That, oh, I'm a member of some grand organization, whether it's domestic and foreign, and really where the evidence points. And that's what law enforcement is for. But this is, you know, the debates we've had for the last 12 years about whether terrorism should be a war or law enforcement, I mean, it just is. This is what -- how it's going to unfolds and those debates are less important than getting this guy.

CUOMO: OK. Juliette, we're getting some conflicting reports about an arrest. We have Tom Fuentes with us right now.

Tom, can you hear us? Are you with us?


CUOMO: All right, Tom, what are you hearing?

FUENTES: OK. I have actually three separate sources, but two that are very highly placed and close to the investigation, that have just told me that there has been no arrest. And, in fact, a suspect has not been identified by name yet. That they have -- they're looking for someone, but don't have anybody in custody yet and they don't have an identification.

CUOMO: OK. Now, that would be, you know, we don't know what's right or not right at this point. And as Anderson always says, you don't want to go down the road of speculation wrongfully. But again, to say that they went from spotting someone on a videotape with a very vague description, to finding him in such a short amount of time is a very unbelievable thing. It's possible.

KAYYEM: Yes, it's great (ph). Right. And in my caution, though, I mean, it is -- look, these people involved with law enforcement activity -- sorry I've been so cautious and thanks, Tom, for - because I was getting a little bit nervous that we were getting ahead of this.

But there's a lot of people involved in this investigation and a lot of people only know some pieces, right? So this someone may have heard something. And I think, you know, in some ways just waiting to turn. But, Chris, on your point, this -- the idea that they went from millions of people -- pieces of evidence to a picture of a guy is not bad news. This is good news.

CUOMO: It's good news.

KAYYEM: And then now we're going to have to engage the public or whomever else to get the person.

COOPER: Tom Fuentes, formerly with the FBI, just repeat that. So what you were hearing from three separate sources is that no arrest, and they do not know the identity of the person. What do they have?

FUENTES: Well, they have the photos that have been described, and the photos are pretty clear as to what the person looks like. So they have a description to work with and try to be seeking an individual, for sure. But they don't have someone in custody yet, and they don't have the identity yet to be putting out, so there's been nobody arrested or - you know, you can parse the wording, whether you want to call it custody or arrest or detained or any of that, no one has been brought to that status yet, where they have somebody that they have been talking to.

CUOMO: All right, Tom.

You want to bring in Fran?