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Emotions High In Moore, Oklahoma; Funerals In Moore Today; Tornado Victims Try To Cope; Sexual Assault In Military Must End; Report: Suspect Asked To Spy For U.K.; Washington Bridge Repairs To Cost $15M; Many U.S. Bridges Need Repair; Jury Deadlocked In Arias Trial; Phone Offers New Details In Case; Oklahomans Face Rebuilding Challenge; Mom, Newborn and Heroic Nurses Reunite; IRS Faces Questions At Hearing; Boy Scouts To Allow Gay Members

Aired May 25, 2013 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, good to see you again. We'll see you again tomorrow morning. Thanks, Poppy.

All right, people in Moore, Oklahoma, are spending the holiday weekend digging out. Some are looking ahead. Others are saying the hardest goodbyes.

And perhaps the biggest question after a major interstate bridge collapses north of Seattle, just how safe are the nation's bridges? An alarming number of them may be in danger.

And a Florida teen rejects a plea deal that would have labeled her a sex offender. Prosecutors charged the 18-year-old girl with battery for having sex with her 14-year-old girlfriend. We'll have details from Florida.

Let's begin in Moore, Oklahoma. It's a town of mixed emotions today. Happiness as high school seniors get their diplomas, but also sadness as children lost too soon are laid to rest. Seniors from one of Moore's three high schools are graduating this morning. There will be two more ceremonies later on today.

Also today, however, three funerals for victims of the tornado, 9-year-old Emily Conatzer and 9-year-old Christopher Legg, were in the Plaza Towers Elementary School. Cindy Plumley was in her home in Moore.

Rene Marsh joining us live now from Moore. So Rene, you have talked to survivors. We see a lot of activity behind you with people still trying to pick up the pieces. How are they all kind of coping? How are they trying to keep it together today?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know what, Fred? We have been out here all morning, several hours. I just want to show you. I mean, this is what we have seen as the hours have gone by, volunteers, homeowners, pulling, dragging debris into these piles here. I'll tell you their job is nowhere near finished. It is very overwhelming.

For many people here in Moore, the fear and the terror compounded with the wait of what is next, it has left a lingering impact on the folks here. For many people the idea of what is next, it is very overwhelming. Take a listen to this one survivor. She explains how just loud sounds really stirs up a feeling of anxiety inside of her. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARDELLA LOUGHMILLER, TORNADO SURVIVOR: Some big truck went by. Just for a split second, I jumped out of that bed. I was on the move and then it hit me, that is a truck. I have never been through anything like this. I don't know how you cope with it. Someone asked me if I would get professional help, I said I don't think I need professional help. It just takes time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: So this brings up this question of what kind of impact does it have? Not just on the damage that you see with the naked eye, but the wounds and the damage that we cannot see, mental health. We spoke with one mental health expert. We know that locally here in Oklahoma, they have more than 300 mental health professionals who have volunteered. They are on the ground walking through these neighborhoods just talking to people, finding out if they are doing OK. Take a listen to this one volunteer who is doing just that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TANIA RUBIO-ROSS, MENTAL HEALTH RESPONDER: When it comes to mental health, it's not something that we see. So we have difficulty sometimes expressing that or somebody else coming in and seeing that. It's really an unseen wound that's very real and needs to be taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: And the thing that she says that people need to know is you may feel OK now, but when the adrenaline dies down and things calm down, people might start to experience that depression and that anxiety. And they say reach out for help whether it's through family or professionals. Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: Yes, tough time. All right, thanks so much. Rene Marsh, appreciate that in Moore, Oklahoma. Well, tonight an Anderson Cooper special report, an up close look from the storm chasers who risked their live alerting others about this disastrous storm. "Storm Hunters In the Path of Disaster," tonight at 7:00 only on CNN.

U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told West Point graduates they must be the generation of leaders that stops sexual assault in the military. He spoke bluntly this morning saying these crimes have no place in what he called the greatest military on earth. Hagel talking directly to the cadets said they cannot fail the men and women they will lead. It's a crime and worse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Sexual harassment and sexual assault in the military are a profound betrayal, a profound betrayal of sacred oaths and trusts. This must be stamped out. We're all accountable and responsible for ensuring that this happens. We cannot fail the Army or America. We cannot fail each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The Pentagon estimates that there are 19,000 sexual assaults in the military each year and many are never reported.

New developments today in the brutal killing of British soldier on the streets of London. There are reports that Britain's intelligence service known as M-15 had asked one of the suspects to spy for them. The suspect was the man recorded right after the attack holding a meat cleaver, his hands covered in blood. He and another man are accused of killing a young soldier, husband and father of a 2- year-old boy.

CNN's Erin McLaughlin is in London. So Erin, what more can you tell us about this offer to spy for the British government?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. Well, a man, Abu Nusaybah, a self-described friend of Michael Adebolajo, the murder suspect gave an interview to the BBC last night. In that interview, he described a conversation he had with Adebolajo some six months ago. During that conversation he apparently told him he had been approached by MI5. He had been asked to work for them, an offer that he declined. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABU NUSAYBAH, MICHAEL ADEBOLAJO'S FRIEND: I think on his return back, subsequently he was followed up by MI5. They came to his house. He mentioned that they wanted to ask whether he knew certain individuals basically. That was the initial issue. But after him saying he didn't know these individuals, they asked if he would be interested in working for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Now while we know that Adebolajo was known to security services here in Britain regarding the specific claims the security source telling CNN that MI5 would never comment on the kinds of allegations made in that interview. Important to note that shortly following that interview, Fredrikcka, Abu Nusaybah was himself arrested by counterterrorism police on suspicion of terrorism-related offenses not connected to the these crimes -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Erin, thanks so much from London.

All right, an alarming report in this country about the safety of U.S. bridges. Just as millions travel for the Memorial holiday weekend, many of nation's bridges may be in danger.

George Zimmerman's defense lawyers claim Trayvon Martin was a troubled teen. I'll talk to our legal guys about the evidence that may be shown in court and the impact that it might have on the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, pretty frightening moment here, two freight trains colliding at an overpass a short time ago in Missouri. It caused the flames that you see right here. The overpass collapsed when one of the trains struck a pillar. Seven people were hurt, all but one have been treated and released from the hospital.

Now to the bridge collapse this week on a major interstate bridge north of Seattle. Remarkably no one was killed when the I-5 Bridge fell into the Skagit River after getting struck by an 18-wheeler. But there are many questions about how that bridge collapsed when that 18- wheeler rode by. CNN's Dan Simon has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It happened after rush hour. The bridge was nearly empty.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCH: Riverside Bridge over I-5 just collapsed. We have people in the water.

SIMON: One of those vehicles, a pickup, belonged to a couple heading on a camping trip. Dan Sligh was driving.

DAN SLIGH, BRIDGE COLLAPSE SURVIVOR: I saw the bridge start to fall. At that point, forward momentum carried us right over. We saw the water approaching. You hold on as tight as you can and just a white flash and cold water. It was definitely cold this time of year.

SIMON: Sligh tells Seattle's KIRO TV the fall dislocated his shoulder. Worse, he couldn't get a response from his wife.

SLIGH: I popped my shoulder back in so I could unbuckle everything and get over to her and unbuckled her. I pulled her into my side which had less water because it was filling up top belly deep.

SIMON: The Sligh's eventually were rescued and taken to a hospital. Onlookers crowded by the side of the river and watch as researchers made sure no victims were overlooked. In the end only three people went into the water. They will be OK. Nobody died.

DAVE CHESSON, SPOKESMAN, WASHINGTON STATE DOT: I think it's amazing there were only a handful of people on the bridge. It's typically heavily used. So I think we're very fortunate.

SIMON: During the night, police said part of an oversized load on a tractor trailer hit a support girder leading to the collapse. The truck can be seen on surveillance video obtained from a local RV dealership. The truck hits the girder and it falls into the water. Dale Ogden tells Seattle's King Five he saw what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I saw the truck saw the right upper corner of the bridge. It almost tipped the truck over, but it tipped to the left and came back down on its wheels. Then I saw girders falling in my rear view mirror.

SIMON: The big truck didn't go into the water. State police questioned the driver, but he wasn't detained. Plenty of people are getting a firsthand look at the twisted wreckage of the bridge. The Federal Highway Administration listed it as functionally obsolete meaning it was old and narrow and not of the modern standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Authorities estimate that it will take $15 million to fix the bridge and it could take weeks or months for repairs to be completed. Dan Simon, CNN, Mount Vernon, Washington.

WHITFIELD: So what happened in Washington State is raising questions about our country's infrastructure as a whole. Here is Tom Foreman.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the most infamous bridge failure of recent years, 2007 in Minneapolis. This span gave way during rush hour, 15 people died. Federal investigators later concluded it was probably a design flaw that led to this. But the American Society of Civil Engineers says out of the more than 600,000 bridges in the country, many of them are in some kind of danger of failure for a wide variety of reasons.

We're talking about old brings and new ones and big ones and small ones. But if you look at this map, every place you see yellow, there are a higher percentage of bridges that are in some kind of trouble. We're talking 151,000 of bridges. It's a quarter of bridges in the country that are in some manner deficient.

What that means is they are either obsolete. They were built so long ago they are not made to handle modern traffic loads or they are in such disrepair that they have to be inspected every year to make sure they are safe enough for people to travel upon them. Those numbers have improved slightly over the past decade but not by much. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY DINGLE, AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS: Right now, we're investing $12 million a year on maintaining our bridges. If we can just up that to $20 billion a year, we can close the backlog of deficient bridges by the year 2020.

FOREMAN: Why isn't that already being done?

DINGLE: You know, it's a question of resources.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: It's the same thing we hear all the time. Is there enough money for it? Government at all levels is strapped for cash these days and in political terms it's easy to say about infrastructure problems they can wait until next year. The society is hoping accidents like this will put a little more fire under politicians to say maybe it can't just wait and wait.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much, Tom Foreman.

All right, the Jodi Arias trial takes yet another shocking turn. The jury couldn't decide whether to sentence her to life or death. Now the penalty phase will begin all over again in a couple months. Our legal guys will weigh in on how this will happen.

And tonight an Anderson Cooper special report examines the much talked about Jodi Arias murder trial. Watch "Murder in the First Degree, Inside the Jodi Arias Trial" tonight at 8:00 Eastern Time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This July, it will be take two in the sentencing phase of the Jodi Arias trial. After almost five months of trial testimony, jurors convicted Jodi Arias of first-degree murder, but couldn't decide whether she should get life or death this week. The jury vote was 8-4 in favor of the death penalty, but a unanimous decision is needed.

In the penalty phase, Arias delivered a statement to the courtroom. So how did that impact the dead lock jurors? Take a listen to what the jury foreman said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM ZERVAKOS, JURY FOREMAN: I'm very sure in my own mind that she was mentally and verbally abused. Is that an excuse? Of course, not. Does it factor into decisions we make? It has to. We're charged with going in to presuming innocence, right. But she was on the stand for so long there were so many contradicting stories. I don't think it did her any good. No, that length of time, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Let's bring in our legal guys. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland. Good to see you.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas. Good to see you as well.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: OK. So here we thought we were at the end of this. Now we have to start all over again. Arias' murder conviction stands, of course, but now a whole new jury will have to decide on her punishment. So Richard, will a new jury be seated in the same county or does there have to be a change of venue within the state of Arizona still?

HERMAN: It's a small state, Arizona, but I think that what we're going to see is two or three new defense attorneys representing her. And I think we're going to instantly see a motion to change venue, get it out of Maricopa County. How can she get a fair trial there? We have seen and heard about the case, but you know, we can be fair.

We can come in with an even mind and be fair. Do you really believe that, Fred? Come on. This is going to be a railroad job here. I think what has to happen is that the Alexander family has to gather their wits, go to the prosecutor, make a deal, no death, prison for life, no appeals and end it.

WHITFIELD: The family would be able to make that kind of deal to say this is what would ease us?

HERMAN: Yes, they can make that suggestion and the district attorney will most likely follow it.

WHITFIELD: So Avery, if we're talking about seating a new jury, if it does proceed and season the case that the family and the judge making a decision, but instead there is a new jury seated, are we talking about revisiting testimony? Not just the character witnesses of Travis Alexander or to even Jodi Arias herself delivering another statement.

But we're talking about revisiting some of the trial testimony because with a new jury seated don't they have to have a clear understanding of why the conviction took place in the first place before even trying to find a suitable penalty?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I mean the complicated thing here, Fredricka, is we are limited to penalty. But basically in the penalty phases, it's a legal free for all. The statements by the foreperson in this case were rivetingly revealing. They actually considered physical and mental abuse. Then how did they convict? So to me I agree with you.

I think they are going to need that background, but I don't care if there's a change in venue. It's not going to matter. The whole country knows about the case. I think it's going to be very difficult for the defense to get the right kind of jury because of pervasive nature of the case.

At the end of the day, whether or not the Alexander's come in and talk to the prosecutor will make no difference. The prosecutors want death penalty and that's what they are going to gun for.

HERMAN: The point is the United States does not kill women. That's a fact, less than 2 percent of the population on death parole. They are not going to kill them. They won't do it to Jodi Arias. There were four jurors --

WHITFIELD: Aren't there three on death row right now?

HERMAN: They've been on forever. Appeals are being overturned. There were four jurors who said no death. Everyone is criticizing this jury. This jury got it right. They didn't want to go for death. So accept it.

FRIEDMAN: I don't know that they got it right.

WHITFIELD: Either way, it has to be a unanimous decision.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: But they held to convictions and voted with their hearts and didn't think she deserved death and there's nothing wrong with that. That's what they are supposed to do.

FRIEDMAN: That's right. Unlike most states we're going back again. Most states don't do it that way. Jury comes back, it's over. In Arizona it's unique. They are going to have it there.

WHITFIELD: All right, we are going to be talking about this case again in another two months because that's when folks will be back in court on that in July. In the meantime, let's talk about something that will be heading to court or at least it's scheduled to, the Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman case.

Lawyers for George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Martin say they have some new evidence and they say it is pictures and texts from Martin's cell phone prove that he was a troubled teen, their words, and he was into drugs and fighting and guns. In texts, apparently martin talks about smoking pot and also tries to sell a gun. So Richard, is this relevant to the case? Would this information be evidence that would be revealed in court?

HERMAN: Maybe. How's that for a legal answer, maybe. Here's the problem. If the government during their prosecution puts Trayvon Martin's character into evidence, if they bring in and say he's a great student, great person, if they do that, they will open the door and the defense will be able to bring all of this evidence in to contradict that.

Interesting how when I open to a lot of defense attorneys in criminal cases, I talk about the other side of coin instead of seeing Trayvon on a pony and that angelic face and thinking he's seen 5'4 -- differently. He's trying to even the playing field here. We don't know if it's admissible.

WHITFIELD: Really the bottom line is how is this relevant to the case? We're talking about a young man who was unarmed shot and killed by someone who was armed who was a neighborhood watchman.

FRIEDMAN: That's the very question. Does this show us propensity, character if the prosecution is going to get into it? I agree with conclusion. The court has to balance the probative effect against the prejudice, alienating the jury. It is a close call, but the prosecutors in this case are going to have a difficult time of meeting the burden of second-degree murder. If we just show this guy as a gangster, maybe we can get that prejudice to get the conviction. It's going to be a very close call whether or not the prosecutor is going to try to use this evidence to try to secure a conviction. We'll see.

WHITFIELD: We will. This is going to be super fascinating. Just as riveting if not more so than what the nation just encountered with the Jodi Arias trial. All right, thanks so much, gentlemen. We'll see you again 15 minutes from now. We'll talk about yet another controversial case, this one involving two young girls in Florida, an 18-year-old girl and a 14-year-old girl. The older teen now could be facing 15 years in prison. We'll explain why when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, people in Oklahoma are just beginning the painful process of rebidding after the deadly tornado. That process is all too familiar to homeowners on the New Jersey Shore. They have spent the last seven months rebuilding their homes and their lives. Christine Romans reports on the challenges they will face in this week's "Smart is the New Rich."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 2,400 homes damaged or destroyed by the devastating tornado that rocked Moore, Oklahoma. For homeowners forced out of their properties by a natural disaster, the painful process of rebuilding and insurance claims starts now.

Mary and Tom Walls know a thing or two about that. Seven months ago, their New Jersey home on the shore was flooded during Hurricane Sandy.

TOM WALLS, SUPERSTORM SANDY SURVIVOR: I think there was a certain shock when the water was coming in the house. It didn't knock the front door down. It just rose up through the carpeting. Immediately, we walked around with my son and that was my first thought of insurance actually.

ROMANS (on camera): What's the first call you make after everyone is safe? The person who sold you the insurance policy?

JEANNE SALVATORE, INSURANCE INDUSTRY EXPERT: Well, the first thing you should do is get in touch with your insurance company. Let them know the extent of the damage and where you can reach. That's the most important thing to do.

ROMANS (voice-over): Jeanne Salvatore represents the insurance industry. She advises all homeowners to know what's in their insurance policies before disaster hits.

SALVATORE: There are a lot of disasters that are covered under standard policies. You're covered for wind damage, fire, falling objects. But two big disasters that are not covered, one is flood and the other is earthquake. You need to get separate insurance for those types of disasters.

ROMANS: The Walls' home is covered for flood damage and they contacted their insurance company immediately after the storm. But they were frustrated by their carrier's slow response and decided not to wait for an insurance check to start the rebuilding process. MARY WALLS, SUPERSTORM SANDY SURVIVOR: I had no clue what goes into this whole process. I actually had to say to a couple of the guys, what exactly takes place? Break it down for me and tell me how this works because it was very foreign for me.

TOM WALLS: There were people that experienced it so much worse than we did. My insurance company didn't pay for everything, but the final analysis, I was satisfied with the dollar amount.

ROMANS: They spent most of the past seven months displaced, but were able to move back in last month.

TOM WALLS: Keep the faith. Things will get better. You need family and friends.

MARY WALLS: Don't be afraid to ask for help.

ROMANS: Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

WHITFIELD: Next up, an Oklahoma woman who gave birth as the tornado hit in Oklahoma reunites with nurses who helped her and her baby survive that terrifying ordeal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Monday was a disastrous day for Moore, Oklahoma, but it was also the birthday of Shayla Taylor's son. She was in labor while the tornado was ripping down the hospital's walls, but she got through the frightening ordeal with the help of four heroic nurses. The women had an emotional reunion. Taylor's newborn baby was there as well and so was our Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you? My God, look at how handsome your boy is.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A reunion that came seconds and inches away from never happening. Four nurses from Moore Medical Center congratulate Shayla Taylor on her newborn son, Braden, six people with a bond that will last for the rest of their lives. As the tornado approached town, Shayla Taylor was in labor on the second floor of the medical center. She was dilated, going through contractions and --

ALYSON HEEKE, NURSE SUPERVISOR: She couldn't move. She had epidural anesthesia, which meant it numbed her enough that she couldn't walk.

TODD: As the tornado bore down, the staff moved her to the hallway then to the more solid windowless operating room. The power was knocked out. It was too dangerous to move her anywhere else.

CINDY POPEJOY, CHARGE NURSE: Her baby was not doing the best. So I really needed a way to monitor her baby to see how the baby was tolerating the labor process especially since she was so far dilated. So the only place to do that would be the OR.

TODD: But within minutes, the hospital was hit with massive force.

(on camera): Now what do you think?

SHAYLA TAYLOR, RODE OUT STORM IN DAMAGED HOSPITAL: Once I felt the floor start shaking, it felt like an earthquake. I knew we were getting hit directly.

TODD: Did you think at that moment that you and Braden could survive this?

SHAYLA TAYLOR: I didn't know if we would. I was just praying that we would.

TODD (voice-over): The walls were ripped off the operating room. Shayla's husband and the nurses shared these pictures from where they were hunkered down a gaping hole to the outside, the tornado still raging.

SHAYLA TAYLOR: I opened my eyes, I could see I-35 and I could see the movie theatre.

TODD: With Shayla still in labor, nurses, Cindy Popejoy, Barbara Brand, Bonnie Stevens and Alyson Heeke, draped blankets and their bodies over her and hung on.

HEEKE: We actually were on the floor. Bonnie the scrub tech was leaning over her. We had blankets and pillows all around her and we were holding on to each other in the bed.

TODD: It worked, the tornado passed without any of them being hurt. But Shayla's husband, Jerome, who'd taken cover with their 4- year-old son, Shaden, on a lower floor hadn't been allowed to go to his wife and says he didn't know how to get to her.

JEROME TAYLOR, SHAYLA'S HUSBAND: And they were like, no, you have to get out of the building. I was like, no, my wife is upstairs.

TODD: And there was still danger. Even though the tornado had passed, floors and ceilings were unstable and there were gas leaks. But Jerome Taylor and the nurses were able to get Shayla on to a flat board and down a stairwell and out. Shayla was taken to a hospital in Norman. Within hours, Bradon Emmanuel Taylor was born at a healthy 8 pounds, 3 ounces.

(on camera): What do you think of the nurses and what they did?

SHAYLA TAYLOR: Those nurses are amazing. You know, they -- they're definitely doing the job that they were called to do. You know, to put my life before theirs. I know that's what you're supposed to do, you know, as a nurse. I went to nursing school. I know that's what you're supposed to do, but to actually see them do it and to be more concerned about me than them, I know that's -- they're definitely doing the job that they are called to do. TODD (voice-over): As for this tiny trouble maker.

SHAYLA TAYLOR: He'll probably sleep through anything now.

TODD: One final piece of symmetry here, Shayla Taylor just finished nursing school. She says she always wanted to be a labor and delivery nurse and this experience only reinforces that. Brian Todd, CNN, Moore, Oklahoma.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: That's so heart warming. Congratulations to all of them and all the best.

All right, the head of an IRS division at the heart of the tax targeting scandal stirs up a little bit controversy. Lois Lerner takes the Fifth, but has a whole lot to say before she invokes that right. Our legal guys will look at that controversy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The head of the IRS division that targeted Tea Party groups has been put on administrative leave. That happened right after she invoked her Fifth Amendment right and refused to answer questions at a House committee hearing. Our legal guys are back, Avery Friedman in Cleveland and Richard Herman in Las Vegas.

All right, gentlemen, so Lois Lerner appeared before the committee saying she broke no laws or IRS rules before she pleaded the Fifth. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOIS LERNER, IRS EXEMPT ORGANIZATIONS DIRECTOR: I have not done anything wrong. I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. While I would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, I have been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of this hearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Richard, you first, can you have it both ways, plead the Fifth and then also make a statement as she did? She did have it both ways, didn't she? How long will that last?

HERMAN: She had it her way, but that's not the right way. I think she waived her privilege. I really do. You are not allowed to get up there and assert your innocence and say you didn't do this and didn't do that and didn't do this, but I've been advised not to answer any more questions. I think that's a waiver.

Legal scholars will debate this. I don't know how it's going to come down. She's on administrative leave right now. You know, like in the Martha Stewart case where there was allegations of securities fraud, but that's not what she was convicted of, she was convicted of lying to the fed's.

In this instance here, we don't know if any crimes have been committed here, but perhaps there's been perjury to Congress and those will be the criminal charges if any are brought.

WHITFIELD: So then, Avery, do you see she would be called back?

FRIEDMAN: She'd have to be called back. But you know what, when Lois Lerner went in, she knew she was going to be as popular to Democrats and Republicans as Lady Gaga in Mecca. She didn't have a chance. I've appeared before House and Senate subcommittees. The first thing you do is take an oath.

So the question is was it Lois's statement or was it testimony? I actually think it may very well be testimony. I don't know why she made the statement after she took the oath. It didn't make any sense. So I do think that if this is coming back, the chair has to call back for a finding of contempt. Then it's referred to the United States attorney who makes the decision of whether or not to enforce a contempt of Congress and it may very well be here.

WHITFIELD: OK, all right, let's move on to another case out of Florida. An 18-year-old is charged with two felony counts for having oral sex with a 14-year-old girl. Hunt turned down a plea deal. Avery, why?

FRIEDMAN: Well, because I think she's taking the principled position for whatever reason that this was a Romeo/Juliet relationship. She's a senior. Her girlfriend is a freshman. The problem here and I don't hear anyone saying this, the legislators in Tallahassee and most states wants to be tough. This is a case that I think is tailor made for a demeanor. She's learned her lesson.

Now she's going to be branded with a felony which will affect her right to vote, her right to get college loans. That's simply wrong and I think she may be in trouble here, under Florida law, up to 15 years.

WHITFIELD: So Richard, if she would have pled guilty, then Hunt faced being labeled a sex offender as well and all those things would be impacting her life in a big way. Doesn't she still face that kind of labelling if found guilty? Are we talking about same possible outcome of impacting her life for the long-term?

HERMAN: Fred, if she goes to trial in this case and I don't think she's going to go to try, but if she does, she will be convicted of multiple felonies. She will serve substantial prison time. She will be a registered sex offender for life. That's why the offer was to a felony and no sex offender status. That's what she should have taken here because she's really rolling the dice.

Now I don't know if there were any rape kits or DNA done here. It's going to boil down to the 14-year-old, her girlfriend's testimony, against her. They are going to need that 14-year-old to say, you know, unequivocally exactly what went down. That's tough testimony for a 14-year-old whose subject matter cross-examination and may have given multiple versions to authorities.

It's a very, very difficult challenge for the prosecution here. Most states, Fred, take sex crimes very, very serious and the offers in these cases are felonies with some sort of prison time.

WHITFIELD: This has less to do with the issue of same-sex couples than it does to do with statutory rape because of the age differences, 18 versus 14, right?

FRIEDMAN: Well, 270,000 people have petitioned saying it is same-sex based. I don't know. Richard and I have talked about cases involving 18-year-old boys and 14-year-old girls and it's been problematic for these young men. It's going to be a problem, I think, for Ms. Hunt in this case as well.

WHITFIELD: All right, we've seen those cases. All right, thank you so much, gentlemen, always good to see you, Richard and Avery.

HERMAN: Fred, before we go. I was with the legendary Floyd Little and his wife last night. He sends his regards to your dad as a fellow trackman and record holder. He sends his best to your dad.

WHITFIELD: That's so sweet. I know dad is watching right now so he just got the message. Thanks so much. Good to see all of you. Thank you, gentlemen, always a treat.

Of course, the legal guys are here every Saturday at this time. You never want to miss it. Always giving us their incredible take on the most intriguing legal cases of the day, week, month, you name it.

The Boy Scouts made a landmark decision to allow openly-gay members. That's getting a strong reaction from both sides, an Eagle Scout joining me live weighing in.

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WHITFIELD: The Boy Scouts of America set off a lot of emotions when it announced this week that it will allow gay scout members. It upheld the ban on gay adult leaders, but a mom and former leader who says she was kicked out because she is a lesbian says it's a step forward.

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JENNIFER TYRELL, MOTHER AND ACTIVIST: People say why scouting and why do you want to be part of an organization that doesn't want you. We love scouting. I definitely look forward to the day when I don't have to be lesbian den mother anymore. I can just be Den Leader Jen.

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WHITFIELD: Well, apparently not everyone has been happy with the decision to include gay scouts. One Eagle Scout was so upset he turned in his badge.

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BLAINE FREIDLINE, FORMER EAGLE SCOUT: I can't in good conscious represent the scouts anymore because of the abandonment that I see of the basic values, the transcendent values that the scouts have been based on for over a century.

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WHITFIELD: I'm joined now by another Eagle Scout, Alvin Townley. He is the author of at least two books, at least for now, "A Legacy of Honor", a new book about how scouting has influenced America. And he also authored "A Spirit of Adventure." We have both of them here. Thanks so much, Alvin, good to see you. OK, so your reaction to this, allowing gay scouts to be members.

ALVIN TOWNLEY, AUTHOR, "LEGACY OF HONOR": You know, I'm happy that we as an organization have made this decision and can move on to serving youth again. The dialogue the last couple months has been about this policy. Scouting is so much more than this. No one on either r side of the issue is entirely happy. Scouting compromised.

We sometimes think compromise is a bad word now, and I don't think it is. We have a group of people who believe in serving young people, just like America does, but we came together for the good of the scouts. I'm excited about that.

WHITFIELD: I was a girl scout, a brownie and a campfire girl. All you wanted to be was a member of any of those great institutions. The last thing I think a kid is thinking about is sexual orientation. So as we talk about young people and the admission of young people who are gay, since when has anyone asked about their sexual orientation as a 10-year-old, 8-year-old, a 15-year-old?

TOWNLEY: The scouts didn't even think about that until the early ' 90s and it became policy. If you go to a meeting, it's not an issue. It doesn't have a place in scouting. That's not an issue for the kids that are in scouting. It's an issue for the adults, but the kids don't notice it. We're just trying to get back to spending our time serving America's youth.

WHITFIELD: What does the message end up being to the young people who hear about the meetings, decisions being created and new rules being made? All these summits that are taking place involving the membership of leaders and the membership of the scouts. How do you suppose it's being trickled down? What's the interpretation from the point of view of these kids?

TOWNLEY: I hope the kids haven't noticed it too much. I hope they have seen people with different viewpoints working together to come up with a solution. It's not perfect, but someone once said politics is the art of possible. For the community as divided as scouting on this, it's possible. It's not perfect, but it's possible. I think it will let us get back to our business of trying to turn youth into better adults. That's what scouting does.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alvin Townley, good to see you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, all the best.

Here's what we're working on for the next hour of "CNN NEWSROOM". From comfort dogs to tearful reunions, we'll look at the role pets play in the healing process after a disaster like this week's tornado in Oklahoma. It took one family hours to find each other after the tornado, they'll tell us their harrowing story.

And then on a lighter note, a school is out for many students around the U.S. and that means trips to sea summer. That means blockbusters. Find out which ones to see and which ones you might want to skip straight ahead.

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