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U.S. Tracking Verizon Calls; Georgia Teen's Body Set For Exhumation

Aired June 06, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BALDWIN: Your phone records in the hands of the government. Is it necessary to protect America? We're about to tell you what big brother can get away with legally. I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

Breaking today, we now know what cuased the limo fire that killed those five women in the bridal party.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you a little nervous as we head inside here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I really am. It's a strange thing, because in a way she's a stranger to me.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A survivor of the Boston bombings didn't know the woman who saved her until now. You will see the reunion.

Plus, he is the teenager found dead inside a gym mat. And as his parents demand answers, a major development involving their son's body.

And:

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": That homemade peanut butter is not bad. I could just eat that all day long. They baked their own -- you don't want peanut butter?

BALDWIN (on camera): I love peanut butter.

GRACE: Well, then dig it, girl.

BALDWIN: Nancy Grace talks to me about her trip behind bars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Hour two. Thanks for staying with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A lot of folks very upset this afternoon about a new revelation about government spying, and a lot of folks defending this. A new report suggests records of phone calls handled by Verizon and possibly every phone calling, period, are being funneled into the files of the top secret government data mining service known as the National Security Agency, the NSA. People briefed on the program are saying it's just the phone numbers. There's nothing about the conversations, just how long the conversation length lasted. Now you have the head of the House Intelligence Committee, here he is, Mike Rogers, saying that their phone data program was used to thwart a terrorist attack within this past year.

Still, as I said, a lot of folks, including some of you, steamed about this. Take a listen, if you would, to this exchange just last hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I'm upset the fact that it's blanketed and not using common sense at targeting individual numbers and then seeing who that person is calling.

There's a difference between saying we have a real threat or a possible threat coming in from this number and we're going to look at every number they're talking to and connect dots than just going to Verizon saying, hey, we want everybody's number and everybody's information for no reason.

BALDWIN: That's right. No, you're right.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Julie, you know, as we read this reporting, you know, it is phone calls within the United States. It's a phone call from here abroad. And you served in the Bush administration, Department of Homeland Security. You see some good in this?

JULIE MYERS WOOD, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: I absolutely do. I think the government has a responsibility to look at this metadata to try to connect all the dots. We have got to be targeted, just as Mr. Ferguson said, but we have also got to look at this metadata.

And metadata follows you just when you get on the Internet, when you go into Target, when you do anything. And so the idea that the government would ignore metadata is really irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, so a lot of smoke there. You see both sides.

Let me see if we can lend some clarity to the issue.

Dana Bash with us now from Capitol Hill, and also Jonathan Turley, professor, George Washington University, joining me here as well.

Dana, beginning with you. News of the government's snooping program started trickling out last night. But today we have learned it has been going on for seven years. Congress knows all about it. What are they saying up there today?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's not news to them at all. And there are many people here who have known about it, are not happy that it leaked out because this is something that those who have been briefed insist, as you mentioned about the House Intelligence chairman, that it is very helpful.

In fact, listen to what this bipartisan team, the Democratic chairwoman and the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: This is just metadata. There is no content involved, in other words, no content of a communication.

SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: All of these numbers are basically ferreted out by computer, but if there's a number that matches a terrorist number that has been dialed by a U.S. number or dialed from a terrorist to a U.S. number, then that may be flagged.

FEINSTEIN: Terrorists will come after us if they can, and the only thing that we have to deter this is good intelligence, to understand that a plot is being hatched and to get there before they get to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, Brooke, there obviously are people here on Capitol Hill who strongly disagree with that. Bernie Sanders, for example, the independent senator from Vermont, put out a press release basically saying, I told you so. He was against the Patriot Act from the start, against this provision, saying it was way too broad and it wasn't right for the American people to be kind of invaded this way by the government.

But it seems to be, at least in the hallways, that kind of anger and grumbling is at a minimum.

BALDWIN: Jonathan Turley, professor of law at George Washington, I have two questions for you. First, though, quickly, this is one of the first things I thought. I'm thinking, here you have the federal government. The federal government calls up Verizon says, Verizon Business Communications, we want every single phone number, length of call, et cetera. If I'm Verizon, can I legally say no?

JONATHAN TURLEY, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Well, some have tried, Brooke.

And the administration has forced them to comply. And there are many that have great reservations and opposition to this type of effort. It is ludicrous to say that this is just a telephone number, it doesn't tell you much. They want it because it does tell them a great deal. It tells them about the duration of your call, who you were calling, where you were calling.

There's a lot of information here. And civil libertarians are pretty aghast. But this isn't the first of these surveillance programs that have been viewed as excessive. And what is really the problem here is that the Supreme Court in the case called Maryland vs. Smith said pen registers, or these things that register phone numbers, are not protected the same as the content of your conversations.

But the administration's taken that to a farther extreme than we have ever seen, where they are demanding basically information on all calls of all citizens, even those just within the United States. That's a fundamentally different question than we have dealt with before.

BALDWIN: We know that this sort of information-gathering has been happening for seven years.

And, Dana Bash, hearing from the chairman of the House Intel Committee, Mike Rogers, not only is he saying this helped thwart a terrorist attack in the last year. Isn't he trying to say, hey, hopefully, we can declassify some information to prove to the American people that this is absolutely warranted?

BASH: You know, they might try to do that.

It's very difficult because the nature of this is such that it only works if it is kept secret. Having said that, I think that definitely what this has done, obviously, is stirred the debate again. We hadn't talked a lot about, at least at the top of the list, about civil liberties vs. these kinds of government tactics, and it is stirring the debate.

There are members of Congress who at least want to put a sunset provision into this law, so forcing the debate every so often and not just allowing this to be the law forever. Whether or not this is going to allow that to happen or push that to happen, it really is unclear because the fact of the matter is, you are hearing in a bipartisan way from the people who have the information, the intelligence at their fingertips that they think that's necessary.

And it is hard, as Jonathan will tell you, for civil libertarians to beat back against that, especially when you're talking about a Democratic president.

BALDWIN: Is it possible, Jonathan Turley? That's my last question. In your columns, you have been very critical of this. Is it possible to beat it back now that we have the information out there, thanks to "The Guardian," "The Guardian," a U.K. paper.

TURLEY: Yes.

Well, the problem is, of course, every administration and every politician will say we're getting something from this. And you can make that argument to remove all civil liberties. And civil libertarians are trying to reach out to the public to say, where's the tipping point? Just recently, we saw the investigation of journalists, an attack on the free press of the United States.

Now we have the administration admitting they actually took the calls of every single citizen from Verizon. At what point do citizens stand up and say, this is the tipping point, we're getting towards authoritarian power? It's not enough to say, well, we used it to nail one plot. We're here to protect something that defines us, which is the Constitution. BALDWIN: Again, senators say, though, like your Mike Rogers and Dianne Feinstein who we heard from and others, saying that this absolutely helps in thwarting terrorist attack. This is what we don't know about that's helping keeping America safer.

Clearly two sides of the issue. It's an issue that is not going to go away. To both of you, Dana Bash and Jonathan Turley, thank you.

TURLEY: Thank you, Border Patrol

Tropical Storm Andrea might not be a hurricane, but it is still dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were just swimming and we didn't think we were that far out until like we couldn't get our bodies back in and we couldn't touch and we were all freaking out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Freaking out because lifeguards were busy yesterday. This is Gulf Shores, Alabama. A group of swimmers suddenly got caught in this rip current, were being dragged away from the shore. Fortunately, everyone made it back safely.

But this storm is due to make landfall in just a couple hours along Florida's Gulf Coast, could end up impacting the entire Eastern Seaboard.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

BALDWIN: Rescuers in Philadelphia are nearly finished searching the site of that deadly building collapse. Firefighters did recover the bodies of six people after a wall of a partially demolished building fell onto that adjacent Salvation Army thrift store yesterday morning with customers at the time inside; 14 people caught in the collapse were able to make it out.

The final person, a 61-year-old woman who had been trapped in the rubble more than 12 hours, latest word here, she is in critical condition at the hospital.

Coming up next, a major development in that case of a Georgia teenager found dead at his school wrapped in a gym mat. Police say it was an accident, that he suffocated, but his parents, they're claiming the investigation was botched. They are demanding answers. Now a judge's ruling could lead to new information on this case. Victor Blackwell is on that.

Plus, the man convicted in connection with the Michael Jackson death sends a message to Paris Jackson after her apparent suicide attempt -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: We have learned today that Dr. Conrad Murray has reached out to Paris Jackson in the wake of her apparent attempt to commit suicide.

Murray recorded what he called a letter to Michael Jackson's daughter. He used a cell phone to call it in actually to the celebrity gossip site TMZ.

In the letter, this is what Murray tells the 15-year-old -- quote -- "I don't know what you're going through, but I'm sure whatever it is, it must be difficult." Goes on: "I don't know if there's anything I can do to solve your pain or help you with your problem, but I wanted you to know that I am here for you. I have never been gone."

You know the story with Conrad Murray. He was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for giving Michael Jackson the anesthetic that killed him. And this is not the first time he has made a phone call from prison. Remember this moment from just a couple months ago?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CONRAD MURRAY, FORMER PERSONAL PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON (singing): He's the little boy that Santa Claus forgot, and goodness knows he did not want a lot. He wrote a note to Santa for some crayons and a toy. It broke his little heart when he found Santa hadn't come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Conrad Murray set to be released from prison in October.

Now to this major development in the case of this student athlete's bizarre death at his high school in Valdosta, Georgia; 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson was found dead, his face battered in this rolled-up gym mat at his high school in January.

Police said that Kendrick suffocated trying to grab a shoe, but his parents didn't buy that. They said there was no way that -- that this is a cover-up, that they have the pictures to prove it. And the Justice Department recently confirmed it is taking a second look at the case here. Now we have gotten word that Johnson's body will be exhumed for a second autopsy.

CNN's Victor Blackwell has been all over this story for us. First, want to warn you we obtained -- you obtained this photo of Kendrick Johnson's face after his death. It is included in your report that we're about to run for you. So just a heads-up.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: It is very graphic, so please be advised. Here's the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KENNETH JOHNSON, FATHER: I wish this on no one. BLACKWELL (voice-over): Kenneth and Jacquelyn Johnson of Valdosta, Georgia, want to know who killed their son. A judge has now given them permission to exhume the body of their child. The Johnsons think the official explanation of how 17-year-old Kendrick Johnson died is a cover-up.

LT. STRYDE JONES, LOWNDES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We examined all the alternatives that were presented to us and the only one that fit the physical evidence and the forensic evidence and the testimonial evidence we received was this is an accident.

BLACKWELL: In January, Kendrick was found upside down in a rolled gym mat like these. In statements released by the Lowndes County Sheriff's Office, students wrote: "We always leave our shoes inside the mats during class, but to retrieve the shoes we tilt the mats over and get the shoes from the bottom."

This is Kendrick inside the mat. His family's attorney gave us this photo. Detectives think Kendrick reached for a black gym shoe from the top of the six-foot mat, slipped into the center and got stuck while no one was around and a relative says the shoes in this picture are his, too. The official cause of death is positional asphyxia. In other words, he was smothered by his own body weight.

JACQUELYN JOHNSON, MOTHER: That it was no foul play. He had no bruises, no nothing.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Did you believe that?

J. JOHNSON: No.

BLACKWELL: And you still don't believe is it?

J. JOHNSON: No, I don't.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): This picture of Kendrick's face reinforced their suspicious.

K. JOHNSON: As handsome as my son was, then you see him like that, is is -- it's crazy.

BLACKWELL: According to the paramedic's report, there was bruising noted to right-side jaw, although there was no mention of bruising in the state's autopsy report.

BILL WATSON, LOWNDES COUNTY CORONER: I didn't know what to think.

BLACKWELL: Coroner Bill Watson was called to the scene five hours after detectives had arrived, although Georgia law requires investigators to call the coroner as soon as a body is found.

WATSON: The body had been moved. The scene, in my opinion, had been compromised.

JONES: It's a very time-consuming process to basically work your way from the outside in. Once our investigators got to the deceased, the coroner was contacted immediately.

BLACKWELL: In May, when we asked Watson about his concerns, he told us that he and the sheriff had taken care of the discrepancy internally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really feel that he was murdered.

BLACKWELL: At least two students told detectives there had been a dispute over a girl and on the day Kendrick's body was found, another student posted on Facebook, "When you start messing the goons, bodies start showing up." And soon after, that Facebook account had been deactivated.

Detectives questioned a schoolmate about a Facebook posting, but did not connect him to Kendrick's death. Hundreds have rallied for a federal investigation and the Department of Justice is reviewing the case.

K. JOHNSON: No mater who you are, how much money your parents have, the color of your skin, everyone deserve justice, everyone.

BLACKWELL: The sheriff's office stands behind its investigation. Johnson says he won't stop until he finds out who killed his son.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Wow. Victor Blackwell joins me here again.

Thank you for staying on the story.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

BALDWIN: And two questions. One, when we saw the photo, you could see his feet and his socks and those were shoes next to his feet.

BLACKWELL: Yes, his shoes, those gray and orange shoes. And that's the question the family asks. If he dove into this mat, how did the shoes end up in the mat after him next to him?

They are mentioned in this report as part of the narrative, but the sheriff's office and the crime lab, they don't mention those shoes as part of the theory of how he died.

BALDWIN: Interesting.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BALDWIN: What about the Department of Justice case review? Where are we on that?

BLACKWELL: Well, the U.S. attorney in Georgia, Michael Moore, has been reviewing this for a little more than a week now, almost two weeks.

And he's at the point where he wants to speak with the family, but the family's attorney says, wait a minute, that autopsy you're reviewing, the statements you're reviewing, those reports, they say they have questions to -- questions about the credibility of those reports. So, they now want to speak with those students, get their own statements, and it's part of the reason they want to exhume Kendrick's body, because they want their own forensic pathologist in Florida to conduct an autopsy to find out if there's anything that leads them to an end that he was killed or there was some type of foul play.

BALDWIN: Well, let us know where they go with that.

BLACKWELL: I will.

BALDWIN: Victor, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

BALDWIN: And just in, a British royal hospitalized. We're told Prince Philip, the husband of Queen Elizabeth, could be in the hospital for weeks. We will get you an update here the from London live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A British royal has been admitted now to a hospital in London. Prince Philip, the husband of Queen Elizabeth, could be there for two weeks.

Let me go straight to Max Foster, who follows all things royal.

Max, what's wrong?

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks relatively serious.

If you get -- as you know, Brooke, from covering these events itself, this is all in the terminology of the statements, but what we have been told is the Duke of Edinburgh has been admitted to the London clinic. It's a hospital here, a private hospital, exploratory operations following abdominal investigations.

He's expected to stay in hospital for two weeks, which is interesting, because to say two weeks and not talk about, you know, let's see how it goes or let's talk about a number of days, two weeks is a long time, so there's a sense of importance over it.

But then I got more information, Brooke, from a royal source saying this is the best hospital for this type of operation. He will go under general anesthetic. He's over 90 years old. That's serious for someone of his age and a concern in itself. And they will -- they imagine the operation will be carried out as soon as possible. So the plan is at the moment that he will have the operation tomorrow morning.

But what happened, Brooke, was he had some tests done earlier this week, about a week ago, actually, and those tests came in and then he was taken to hospital, not rushed to hospital. But it looks serious. It's certainly much more serious than other statements we have had in the past of this vein. BALDWIN: Hopefully, he will not be in the hospital as long as they indicate , but keep us posted, Max Foster. Thank you so much for us, the latest on the duke of Edinburgh from London.

Coming up next, CNN helped united this Boston bombing survivor with the woman who saved her life, so she says. We were there for the emotional reunion.

From a nervous first meeting to quickly turning into long, lost friends, we have this unique interaction of two people united forever by the tragedy.

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