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Obama's Approval Rating Tumbles; Justices Strike Dow Arizona's Voter Law; NSA Leaker Answers Questions Online; Britain Spied On Delegates; "The Guardian" Cites Surveillance At 2009 Summit; Colorado Fire Now A Crime Scene; New Search For Jimmy Hoffa's Body; Man Forgivers Grandmother's Killer; Alleged Nazi Living In Minnesota

Aired June 17, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: The search for former teamster boss Jimmy Hoffa continuing. He went missing in 1975 and police still looking for his body. The latest for the search for Hoffa coming up this hour.

An a story, an amazing story of forgiveness. A bible study teacher brutally murdered and her grandson is forgiving her killer, even helping to return her life after prison. His story straight ahead.

This is the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. We begin with the secret surveillance program. The IRS controversy. All this seeming to take a toll on President Obama's approval rating. It has now dropped eight percentage points over the past month. In the new CNN ORC poll, its approval rating at 45 percent. It is the lowest in more than a year and a half.

I want to bring in our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger to talk a little bit about this. Do we think it's going to have much of an impact in terms of what can he do? What can he accomplish in the remaining years?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, these things always do, Suzanne. I think this is the president, and you've covered him so you know this. He didn't expect to have these problems on his hands. I mean, who would have thought that the constitutional scholar, the man who came in against the war would have to be dealing with the question of arming the rebels in Syria, drones, --

MALVEAUX: Yes.

BORGER: -- NSA, surveillance, leaks, all these kinds of issues. And they have had a cumulative impact on his popularity. And I think if you're of the other party, you think, you know, what? I'm only going to do what's good for me right now which may means gets immigration reform through, by the way, because it's good for Republicans, one would argue politically, but it doesn't make him any stronger in leading his own Democratic Party, and it makes him weaker with his base. And what our polls show, Suzanne, is that he's down an astonishing 17 points with younger voters.

MALVEAUX: Wow. BORGER: And the under 30 set. And those are the people who always propel him, right? And so, this is a -- if you're sitting in the White House right now and you're looking at these numbers, I wonder if you're thinking that perhaps this is a president who needs to come out and speak a little more about these issues to the American people and explain why he's done what he's done.

MALVEAUX: And, Gloria, one of the things that seems to really hit him hard here in this poll is when asked how the president is handling the surveillance of U.S. citizens, --

BORGER: Right.

MALVEAUX: -- only 35 percent say they approve of the way he's handling it, their response. And then, 61 percent say they disapprove here. So, how do they turn that around specifically?

BORGER: Well, what's -- you know, what's interesting about this, Suzanne, is when you ask people specific questions about, you know, do you understand why the government might have to assemble this kind of meta data, as we call it, to stop terrorism and do you think that's OK in terms of stopping terrorist? You know, a majority of people will very often say, yes. But I think what this number reflects is that people don't really -- haven't heard enough from the president about why he is doing what he's doing.

I mean, you know, a couple of weeks ago, he came out and he said, look, we need to have a debate in this country about privacy, the need for privacy versus the need for security. I think what you're seeing in this poll is people are saying, OK, you have to have that debate with us. In fact, maybe you ought to leave it. And that's why we're hearing a lot more talk, Suzanne, about declassifying a lot of information to kind of lift the veil --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

BORGER: -- for the American people. Let them know how this kind of surveillance has stopped terror attacks because before they make an informed decision, they have to be informed.

MALVEAUX: All right. So, maybe we'll see more of the president on the issue.

BORGER: I think we would. It would not surprise me.

MALVEAUX: All right, Gloria, thank you. Good to see you as always.

BORGER: Sure.

MALVEAUX: The Supreme Court just struck down the citizenship provision in Arizona's voter registration law. So, what does this mean? In a seven to two decision, the court said that federal law trumps Arizona's proposition 200. Now, that measure passed by voters in 2004 required anyone registering to vote in a federal election to show proof of identity. Well, 31,000 potential voters were rejected in the past two years because of that law. Now thousands will have the opportunity to vote. Today's ruling could impact other states as well. Well now, thousands are going to have the opportunity to vote.

Today's ruling could impact other states as well. We are talking about Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Tennessee all requiring proof of citizenship before residents can register to vote. Very big decision there.

And the man who leaked some big U.S. Intelligence apparently he's got a lot more to say. That's right. He has not stopped talking (INAUDIBLE.) Speaking out today, this was an online chat. Snowden was the source, as you know, behind the leaks about the government surveillance of phone and Internet records.

I want to bring in Barbara Starr who's at the Pentagon and Dan Rivers who's live in London. Barbara, let's start off with you here. What more are we learning from him?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was really extraordinary, Suzanne. Sponsored by "The Guardian" newspaper ,they had this online chat with Edward Snowden. He pretty much stuck to what he had said in the past. His claims that, you know, an individual analyst can monitor phone calls, Internet data, all sorts of things. He didn't deviate from that. He offered a lot more detail about how this technology works in his view. Pretty interesting.

You have to wonder how he was dodging the NSA or the U.S. government as they might have searched for his location in cyber space while all of this was going on. He was asked -- I thought one thing that was really interesting, he was asked at one point about whether or not he was in touch with Chinese authorities. One of the questions saying, Edward, there is rampant speculation outpacing facts that you have or will provide classified U.S. information to the Chinese or other governments in exchange for asylum. Have or will you? And his answer was this. This was a predictable smear that I anticipated before going public as the U.S. media has a knee-jerk Red China reaction to anything involving H.K., Hong Kong, or PRC, the People's Republic of China.

MALVEAUX: Yes.

STARR: And is intended to distract from the issue of U.S. government misconduct. Ask yourself, if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't have I -- have flown directly to Beijing. I could be living in a palace petting a Phoenix by now. Mr. Snowden's attempting humor. He did go on later and say that he had no contact with the Chinese. Not sure that brings much comfort to the U.S. They want this guy and they want to ask him a lot of questions.

MALVEAUX: Yes. And he seems to be at least talking to everybody else but U.S. officials at this point. Barbara, thank you.

I want to bring up the fact that "The Guardian" is also reporting that Britain spied on delegates. This is at the 2009 Economic Summit and, of course, that is fueling a lot of controversy debate over government surveillance. Let's bring in Dan Rivers to talk about that aspect of it. Are you surprised? DAN RIVERS ,CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm not surprised, no. I kind of think if -- you know, that's exactly the kind of thing you would expect British spies to be doing. But it has caused a lot of ripples here, this again coming from documents that "The Guardian" says that were provided to them by Edward Snowden basically saying that during the G8 -- sorry, the G20 summit in 2009 which involves a whole bunch of other countries on top of the G8.

British spies were involved in a number of operations to spy on not only their enemies but also their friends. Countries like Turkey. Countries like South Africa setting up fake Internet cafes, cyber cafes to try and lure delegates in who might want to try and hack -- log into their e-mail all the while run by MI6 (INAUDIBLE), also hacking into their Blackberries to get realtime information.

So, we didn't go in a lot of detail about how they were running these operations. Also, a commonwealth summit was targeted as well in the Caribbean. So, a lot of information here. I personally don't find it that surprising this kind of thing is going on. The timing, of course, is acutely embarrassing for the British government hosting the G8 this time. I would think everyone is probably checking their Blackberries very carefully.

MALVEAUX: Yes, maybe not saying as much as they normally would. But interesting because, right, they speak publicly to each other and then meantime they got everybody's (INAUDIBLE) kind of, you know, going in the back way trying to figure out what people are really thinking. Dan, thank you. We appreciate it.

We are also covering this, wildfires in Colorado. The cited most destructive fire in the state's history is now a crime scene. That's right. Two people died in the fire near Colorado Springs. Almost 500 homes and other structures burned to the ground, 16,000 acres scorched. It's unbelievable. Crews say they have 65 percent of that fire under control. And now, federal and state authorities are now helping with the investigation into what caused that fire.

And now, to one of the great American mysteries. What happened to Jimmy Hoffa? Well, the FBI is acting on a new tip today. This is from a former Detroit mafia underboss. They are digging up a field just outside the city. FBI agents, past and present, have told CNN affiliate WDIV that this is the best Hoffa tip that they have received since the former teamster boss disappeared in 1975. So, Mary Snow has got the latest on this. Tell us about this search that we're seeing.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, you know, this latest tip has taken federal agents to a field north of Detroit in a place called Oakland Township. It's about 20 miles away from where Jimmy Hoffa was last seen in 1975. Now, the FBI obtained a search warrant to examine the field. A law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation tells CNN's Susan Candiotti that the FBI has spent months looking into the claims made by a man who alleged to have been a mobster. And that same source says the size they are searching of that field is relatively small.

The alleged mobster behind the tip is a man names Tony Zerilli. He had told CNN affiliate WDIV a few months ago that a mafia enforcer told him that Hoffa was buried in this field in 1975 after he disappeared. But he said that the plan initially was to move his remains to another spot after the intensity of the initial police search died down. And, Suzanne, nearly four decades after his disappearance, there's still so much intrigue about Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance.

MALVEAUX: Yes, and so, you've had all these tips throughout the years. No body has been found. I mean, what makes them think that this time is any different? Do they?

SNOW: Well, you know, the FBI publicly isn't saying much but the information they have but we do know that they've been looking at this for months now and felt strongly enough to get the search warrant. Now, we should point out that WDIV, the affiliate that spoke to this alleged mobster, says that when they asked him about why is he coming forward now? He says that he is broke. He is coming out with a book. So, you know, whether this will be any different remains unseen. There's been, as you said, so many tips in the past.

MALVEAUX: All right, ,Mary. Thanks. We appreciate that.

Coming up, she was sentenced to death row at 16 years old. Well now, she's out and the grandson of her victim is waiting to greet her with open arms. Why he is forgiven? We're going to talk with him next.

Plus, an alleged Nazi war criminal living in Minnesota. What the 94- year-old man's son is saying about the accusations.

And he is accused of killing 19 people decades ago. Well now, James Whitey Bulger hears from a key witness against him. That's coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: In Indiana today, this is really an amazing -- it's actually an unbelievable story. This is about the power of forgiveness. A woman who spent 27 years in prison for a brutal murder she committed when she was 15 years hold is now free. One of her biggest advocates is the victim's grandson. Paula Cooper was stabbed to death, and it was just - Paula Cooper stabbed, rather, a 78-year- old grandmother Ruth Pelke. She was a bible teacher who welcomed several teenagers into her home. This was back in 1986. They planned to rob her and police say that Cooper stabbed Pelke 33 times. All the teens got $10 out of this.

Cooper was sentenced to death row, but more than two million people, including the pope, signed a petition asking that her sentence be overturned. The most surprising advocate for Cooper was the woman's grandson, Bill Pelke. He joins us now. Bill, it really is something that all of us have been talking about. How do you do that? How do you forgive this woman who brutally killed your grandmother and is now free?

BILL PELKE, GRANDMOTHER MURDERED: I became convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that my grandmother would have had love and compassion for Paula Cooper and her family. I felt she wanted someone in my family to have that same sort of love and compassion. I didn't have any, but was so convinced that's what she would have wanted, I begged God to give me love and compassion for Paula Cooper and her family and do that on behalf of my grandmother. It's a short prayer. I began to think I could write this girl a letter, I could tell her about my grandmother, share my grandmother's faith and I realized that prayer of love and compassion had been answered because I knew I no longer wanted her to die, and I learned the most important of my life that night. It was about the healing power of forgiveness.

MALVEAUX: I understand the two of you have been corresponding while she's in prison. You've been sending e-mails. What have you been talking about?

PELKE: We've talked about a number of things. The travels that I do, speaking about love and compassion and forgiveness. She's talked about things she does in prison as far as taking cooking classes and teaching cooking classes to other inmates. How she cooks for the prison staff and that she's hoping that when she gets out that she'll be able to get a job doing cooking. She loves to cook.

MALVEAUX: Has she talked about that day, the killing of your grandmother. Is she remorseful? I mean, have you had those kinds of conversations?

PELKE: Yes. I've never asked her why she did what she did. There's not a good answer for that, but she is remorseful. She's let me know that. She would take it back in a heartbeat of she could, but she knows she has to live with it for the rest of her life. She knows she took something valuable out of society. She wants to try to give back. She wants to to help work with other young people to avoid the pitfalls that she fell into. She wants to try to give back to society.

MALVEUAX: I understand you have plans to meet with her now that she's out of prison - once she gets out of prison, that you guys will get together. What are you doing to do?

PELKE: Well, I hope that we're able to go out and have a meal. I've told her when she got out of prison I'd like to buy her a computer and I have a friend that would like to buy her some clothes. Hopefully we'll get together within the next few days and go shopping.

MALVEAUX: And Bill, final question here really - help us understand because people hold onto grudges, slights, for years and you have been able to find it in yourself to forgive her. How did you get there?

PELKE: The forgiveness is automatic. When I prayed for love and compassion, God touched my heart an forgiveness was automatic. It brought such a beautiful healing to me. For a year and a half whenever I thought about my grandfather I always pictured how she died. It was terrible. But when my heart was touched with compassion, forgiveness took place, I knew from that moment on when I think about her, I would no longer pictured how she died, but I would picture how she lives, and what she stood for, what she believed in, the beautiful, wonderful person she was. That was a tremendous healing. It wasn't something that happened just so I would feel good for a period of time, but it was something to be shared with other people. I made a promise that night to my God that any door that opened up as a result of forgiving her I would go through that door. It's been amazing the doors that have opened in the last 25 years.

MALVEAUX: It really is an incredible journey. You write about it beautifully and you've inspired a lot of people reall0, part of a movement even to allow people that hurt them and hurt their relatives. Bill Pelke, thank you so much for doing this. If you'd like to learn more about his story, you can simply go to CNN.com. It's really an extraordinary journey that he has been on.

After violence went down in Chicago, dozens of people were shot in the city over the weekend. We'll try to find out what is causing all this trouble. Coming up.

And George Zimmerman back in court today accused of murder for killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.. Seating the jury has not been easy. What this could mean for his trial, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Police say a quick thinking Texas mom went head to head with carjacker and won. This morning he's in the hospital while the woman's two young sons, well they are safe at home. She is being called a hero. Here's Michaela Pereira.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Meet a mom with nerves of steel. Dorothy Baker was leaving this drugstore with her 2 and 5-year-old sons when she says a knife wielding robber popped out from the back seat of her van.

DOROTHY BAKER, HERO MOM: Threatening my kids with a knife, threatening to hurt them.

PEREIRA: Police have identified the suspect as a 54-year-old Ismael Martinez. Baker says he demanded money and tried to force her to drive to an ATM machine.

BAKER: I asked him how much he needed and he said about $200. I told him I didn't have that kind of cash. I had about $20 in my account. He said Ibetter figure out how to get it or my kids would get hurt. The Texas mom says she ignored his demands to make a turn.

BAKER: I just thought, well if you serve and you hit the pole, he's not wearing a seat belt. He'll go through the wind shield.

PEREIRA: This mother of six managed to knock the knife out of his hand while keeping one hand on the wheel. She said she pushed him to the passenger seat and punched him in the face. Then she made some demands of her own.

BAKER: I told him to get the hell out of my car. He said fine. He got out and started running. The next thing I thought was if he gets away he can do this to somebody else. He kind of zagged and I turned intended to clip him in the side or something to get him to stop. I ended up actually running completely over him.

PERIERA: Martinez was air lifted to the hospital for treatment. Baker says she's no hero. She says she did what she needed to do to protect her family. She's got the scars to prove it.

BAKER: That's all I was thinking of was to get him away from my kids.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MAKVEAUX: That was Michaela Pereira reporting, and you can watch her daily report on CNN's "NEW DAY," which airs 6-9AM eastern.

George Zimmerman back in court today accused of murder for killing 17- year-old Trayvon Martin and seating the jury has not been easy. The latest, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: A Florida couple accused of kidnapping their own kids and taking them on sailboat to Cuba was in a Tampa courtroom earlier today. Police say that Joshua and Sharyn Hakken kidnapped their two young sons from the grandparents' house. The couple had lost custody of the boys. The boys were found days later in Cuba, then brought back to the United States. The Hakkens have pled not guilty to charges of kidnapping, burglary, battery and false imprisonment.

It's week two of the George Zimmerman trial underway. Jean Casarez of our sister network, HLN, joining us from outside the courthouse in Sanford, Florida. Tell us, first of all, where are we in this process, jury selection? How's it going?

JEAN CASAREZ, HLN CORRESPONDENT: It's going slow but it's going. I definitely think they will get a jury. They are doing individual questioning right now because there's been so much pretrial publicity and people know so much. If they do that in the midst of general questioning then you could taint a perspective juror. But I want to tell you, one individual that was just questioned and this is what happens. He filled out on his questionnaire do you have an opinion on this case? No.

Then he comes in and he's talking and says he has an opinion on the case because he said I believe George Zimmerman was trying to do what was right and something happened and he had to shoot him. He said I'm part of a homeowner's community and we've had the same issue and there's been rash of burglaries and if I was having my head banged on the cement, I would have done the same thing. You can't go by the questionnaires. You have to have the individual questioning.

MALVEAUX: Definitely has an opinion there. How soon before we actually get this jury and this gets underway and we start hearing some of the arguments from both sides?

CASAREZ: : They are estimating mid-week to later in the week that they'll have the jury. And there are some pretrial motions that they have to argue, that they haven't gotten to. One being that 911 call where the cries for help are heard. Should there be expert testimony? Is it based on a significant scientific principle accepted in the industry to be able to have analysis on who was screaming? The defense says no. The prosecution says yes.

MALVEAUX: I understand that they are going to be dealing with that 911 tape. What are they looking for?

CASAREZ: Well, here's the thing. They defense has brought this motion to not allow expert testimony.