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Testimony Continues in Zimmerman Case.
Aired June 28, 2013 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Don West, George Zimmerman's defense attorney, is cross-examining the witness, Jonathan Manalo. He immediately walked out of his house after he heard a gunshot and took pictures. Let's listen.
DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Turn the other way to call the police.
JONATHAN MANALO, WITNESS: I asked, do I need to call the police.
WEST: I'm saying, yourself, as you approach, you saw him. You knew there was a gunshot. You didn't turn to call the police yourself?
MANALO: Right.
WEST: When you got closer to Mr. Zimmerman, you asked him do I need to call the police.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He told you no. I already called them, or something to that effect?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You didn't know yourself at that moment whether he was talking about the call that he tried to be making or was on the phone or whether he had called them himself two, three, four minutes before.
MANALO: I didn't know that.
WEST: Your assumption was, when you say him on the phone at that point, with the phone to his ear, that he was talking to the police?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: But all of that would have taken place in the 10 to 20 seconds it took you to get there?
MANALO: Correct.
WEST: He could have had to place the call to the police. He would have had to call the police, waited for the call to collect, to connect, and had the conversation with the police, have that over by the time you asked him, do you want me to call the police? MANALO: I'm not aware of that. He wasn't talking on the phone. As I came around the corner, he had the phone to his ear.
WEST: Right. You learned very soon there after that he wanted you to tell his wife about being involved in a shooting?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He was trying to catch his breath and he asked you, am I bleeding?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You noticed, indeed, he was. He was bleeding from his face?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Looked like his nose was dripping?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Then he kind of stooped over like this, as if trying to collect himself?
MANALO: No, he just squatted down. He didn't stoop down like that. He just --
WEST: Like this?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: As if trying to collect himself?
MANALO: I won't say collect himself, but I guess so. I don't know. He did squat down.
WEST: Did you say that in a prior statement? You thought he kind of stooped down to try to collect himself.
MANALO: I believe I said he squatted down.
WEST: I don't mean -- I'm not -- not squat versus stoop, but he bent down in some way?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: To try to collect himself? He was breathing hard. He looked like he just gotten his butt beat?
MANALO: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
DEBRA NELSON, CIRCUIT JUDGE: (INAUDIBLE).
WEST: He did? MANALO: Yeah.
WEST: So at that point, you could see that he was also bleeding from the back of his head?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You hadn't noticed that before?
MANALO: No.
WEST: You had your flashlight and you had your cell phone with you.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You took that opportunity to take the picture of the back of his head?
Is this the picture?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: As Mr. Zimmerman kind of squatted down to collect himself, you took it upon yourself to take the picture?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He didn't ask you to take the picture?
MANALO: No.
WEST: Thankfully, you did, but it was your decision?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You also asked him what happened.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He said this guy was beating me up and I shot him?
MANALO: I defended myself and I shot him.
WEST: I'm sorry.
MANALO: I was defending myself and I shot him.
WEST: This guy was beating me up. I was defending myself and I shot him, is what he told you?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Without hesitation?
MANALO: No.
WEST: From what you could tell at the moment, it seemed completely true?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: It wasn't very long until the police arrived. You were standing there talking to Mr. Zimmerman as he tried to collect himself and, shortly there after, Officer Tim Smith got there?
MANALO: I didn't know his name.
WEST: Well --
MANALO: Yes, right.
WEST: The police officer -- within a very short time, the first police officer arrived?
MANALO: Right.
WEST: He had a flashlight?
MANALO: I don't remember if he had a flashlight.
WEST: You don't remember the next person arriving after you with a flashlight?
MANALO: I know it was a police officer but I don't remember the light. I already had mine on.
WEST: You could see from your own flashlight?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: But it was really, really dark out there?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: So Officer Smith will use that for our purposes or the first officer arrived and he said, who shot him?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: George Zimmerman immediately said, I did?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Officer Smith said, do you have a gun, or something to that effect?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: George Zimmerman immediately complied by raising his arms or his right arm and exposed the firearm that was in the holster on his right side.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Then Officer Smith's response or reaction was, I'm going to handcuff you for officer safety?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: That's what happened?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: George Zimmerman complied fully with that request.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He basically made himself available to be cuffed behind the back?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: In the meantime, while George Zimmerman was in the process of being cuffed, he wanted you to call his wife.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: In the process of him being cuffed and wanting you to call his wife, he put the phone on the ground?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: He couldn't very well do much since he was in the process of being cuffed other than that, correct?
MANALO: Right.
WEST: Your purpose at that point was to let his wife know that her husband had been involved in a shooting?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Indeed, that's what you did?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You called and had a conversation with the person on the other end that you believed to be his wife?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Your statement was your husband's been involved in a shooting?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: And is going to be taken in for questioning?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: And you're beginning to explain a bit when Mr. Zimmerman, in the process of being handcuffed, said just tell her I shot someone in.
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: That's to make it clear he wasn't the one that had been shot and that he was --
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: Objection.
Don't know what Mr. Zimmerman was thinking.
NELSON: Sustained.
WEST: You suggested a moment in your direct that he may have been abrupt, and abrupt by saying basically just get to the point?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: The point being he wasn't shot. Someone else had been shot?
MANALO: Yes.
BLITZER: All right. While there's a little pause, let's take another quick break. We'll resume our coverage of the cross-examination of this witness who heard the gunshot that killed Trayvon Martin right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The attorney for George Zimmerman, Don West, is continuing his cross-examination of this man, Jonathan Manalo, who was there in the neighborhood, heard a gunshot and ran out and began to see what was going on and confronted George Zimmerman with questions. Let's listen in.
WEST: You're familiar that the community neighborhood watch program involved more communication, more contact among neighbors, guidance as to what they should do, not just if it's an emergency that would require a 911 call, but what to do in a suspicious circumstance by calling a non-emergency number?
MANALO: I don't understand.
WEST: You didn't know what was going on in the community specifically with the neighborhood watch?
MANALO: Right.
WEST: I know you said it was dark, and I know you had a flashlight, and I know that you took two pictures that show Trayvon Martin lying on the ground following the shot. Those are in evidence as 77 and 78.
Could we, first of all, we're going to show those in a second.
But the exact position that he is shown in the photograph is the exact position that you personally saw with your eyes Trayvon Martin's body?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You saw his legs kind of spread like this, almost as if he were riding a bicycle?
MANALO: I don't remember.
WEST: Let's take a look at 77.
Would you pull that, please? That's 77. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got this one --
WEST: That's 77. I'm sorry. That's --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want 77 or 78?
WEST: I don't care.
We'll start with this.
Mr. Manalo, you took this photo of Trayvon Martin, and you see the legs that I've described as sort of almost riding a bicycle-type position with the right knee bent?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: And the hip at an angle?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: That's exactly how you first observed Mr. Martin's body when you got there?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: And the illumination of Mr. Martin's body is from your flashlight, correct?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: It's not from the flash on the phone?
MANALO: No.
WEST: You shined the flashlight and then took the photo?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Around that spot where you see it's much darker, is that a good depiction of what the overall lighting conditions were that night?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: If I could see 78.
This is the next picture that you took. I don't know which sequence and that doesn't matter but the other picture that you took is state state's 78. You can see of Trayvon Martin's body is in the same position although it's a lot harder to see, isn't it? MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Now you can see more clearly this flashlight?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: The flashlight was not on at any point in time when you saw it?
MANALO: No.
WEST: At that point, you had no idea whether it was connected to the case. Only that you saw it there and it caught your attention?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: When you shifted your flashlight to point at the one in the picture, then as you can see here Mr. Martin's body was just like I said before, except for what you're showing with your flashlight everything else was dark?
MANALO: Right.
WEST: Were you -- do you know where you were standing at that point?
MANALO: On the sidewalk.
WEST: Where you had encountered Mr. Zimmerman?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Basically, in the same spot?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: From your vantage point, where you had taken this picture generally, you sort of turned and took the pictures that we've shown here?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You were up near the T intersection?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: Your best recollection is you were at the T intersection when you took this picture?
MANALO: I was a few feet away from the T but in that area?
WEST: You somewhere between the actual T intersection and far enough down the sidewalk where you could see Mr. Martin's body to have taken this picture?
MANALO: Yes.
WEST: You recognize that the light on the sort of back patio area is from the light of the second unit in from the corner?
MANALO: I couldn't remember whether that's the second or third unit from the corner.
WEST: It was not directly across from you?
MANALO: Correct.
WEST: It was somewhat to the left of where your unit was?
MANALO: Yes.
BLITZER: Let's take another quick break. Resume our coverage right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The cross-examination has stopped, but now there's what they call a redirect. The prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda, questioning a neighbor who heard the gunshot, ran outside, and saw George Zimmerman standing over the body of Trayvon Martin.
RIONDA: He was calm, is that correct?
MANALO: Yes --
RIONDA: And --
WEST: I think that's a mischaracterization of this witness' testimony as to whether he was calm.
NELSON: The witness can clarify what his answer is.
WEST: Thank you, Judge.
RIONDA: How would you describe Mr. Zimmerman's demeanor, sir?
MANALO: Coherent, compliant. He wasn't -- he was calm. You know, just basically just walking toward me.
RIONDA: OK. Did he have any trouble walking toward you, sir?
MANALO: He was staggering a little bit.
RIONDA: OK. When you say "staggering," elaborate what you mean by that.
MANALO: Basically, getting up off the ground.
RIONDA: Was he walking like this --
MANALO: No, just like hunched --
WEST: Leading, among other things.
NELSON: Overruled. RIONDA: Was he erect, sir?
MANALO: At one point, he became erect, yes.
RIONDA: Did you have trouble when he spoke --
MANALO: No.
RIONDA: In your conversations, did you ask what caliber of gun Mr. Zimmerman had?
MANALO: Yes.
RIONDA: Did he respond to you?
MANALO: Yes.
RIONDA: What did the defendant say, sir?
MANALO: .9 millimeter.
RIONDA: You were asked by Mr. West about the statements the defendant made about shooting the individual, and he asked you whether you agreed that that was defending himself. Were you out there when this happened?
MANALO: I came up after it happened.
RIONDA: Did you see actually what happened, what precipitated this, or did you actually see the shooting where George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in the chest? Did you see that?
MANALO: No.
RIONDA: Do you have any inkling of how it happened? Whether it's self-defense or not?
MANALO: No.
RIONDA: Thank you. No further questions.
I apologize. Do you want this -- no? OK.
NELSON: May Mr. Manalo be excused?
WEST: Yes, Your Honor.
NELSON: Thank you very much. Sir, you are excused.
Please call your next witness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
BLITZER: While we're awaiting the next witness, let's get analysis of what we just heard over the past nearly one hour.
Jane Velez-Mitchell is joining us, also Mark Nejame.
Jane, what do you make of the last witness, Jonathan Manalo?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it's good for George Zimmerman in the sense that he took a picture. He said, "Am I bleeding." He took a picture of the back of his head. There was blood. He said there was blood streaming down his nose. So is this the behavior of an innocent man who's just been beaten up, or is this the behavior of a vigilante?
What kind of concerned me, struck me at first was the lack of emotion on the part of George Zimmerman. He's just shot somebody dead. Are there tears, is there emotion, is there a sense of emotion, oh, my god, there's somebody lying on the ground? No. He's extraordinarily calm, this witness says. He's matter of fact. Does that point to the vigilante attitude? That's what jurors have to decide. They have to decide if this guy was beaten up and doesn't have the wherewithal emotionally to care about this dead person on the ground, or is this a guy who's callous and doesn't care and may be even proud of having shot him because he tells the guy, "Tell my wife I shot someone."
BLITZER: And, Mark, what's the upshot in your opinion of what Jonathan Manalo said?
MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: His battered and bruised body. And additionally, that he indicated immediately that he fought in self- defense. So, as Jane indicates, I mean, it does have both sides. But you know, does he believe that he was protecting his life and je shot somebody in self-defense, or was he cold and calculated?
I think that the bigger issue's going to be -- we all know that people can react differently depending upon who they are. We all don't act the same. So the biggest thing, though, is you've got confirmation of the battered and bruised body, the person who took the picture. I think that is going to be the biggest part of it. I don't think he's going to be a make-it or break-it witness.
BLITZER: The context, Jane, his wife testified earlier, Jonathan Manalo, Jean, and she seemed to suggest that Zimmerman was the aggressor, is that right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There have been over half a dozen witnesses, all of whom saw fragments, Wolf. That is the problem. It's a dark, rainy night. Everybody is seeing fragments along a timeline that's intercepted by 911 calls and screams and various commotions. So in -- is there, say, in darkness and in rain, reasonable doubt? I think that's possibly the key question here.
BLITZER: And, Mark, as you see the situation, as it stands now, we're wrapping up week one of this trial, where does it stand?
NEJAME: Well, I think the state started off very strong. I've been impressed with the quality of the prosecutors. I think, as we're seeing it now, they have to put on the full case so they don't lose credibility. They know the defense will be putting these witnesses on anyway. I think they've taken some big blows. These are witnesses that were going come out. They seem to be, towards the end of this, that we're seeing in the timeline witnesses, more helping the defense than they would be helping the prosecution.
Because remember, we have to keep going to -- it's not like who do you kind of believe. The state has to prove this beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. That is such a strict standard when there's confusion and conflict among witnesses. That typically -- that typically sides with the defense, as it should be, as our Constitution dictates.
BLITZER: Mark Nejame will be with us throughout the day. So will Jane Velez-Mitchell. She's going to be reporting on her show on our sister network, HLN.
I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room." More coverage on this and all the day's important news.
But Brooke Baldwin picks up the special coverage of the George Zimmerman trial right now.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you very much.
Good to see everyone on this Friday afternoon. We'll bring in a lot of voices to parse through what we've heard thus far today.
You're seeing this gentleman just taking the stand. He is a Sanford police officer by the name of Ricardo Ayala, the fourth person to take the stand today.
Let's dip in. Let's listen to what he says. First, the state will be questioning him. Then he will be cross-examined by the defense. Let's listen.
OFC. RICARDO AYALA, SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Right there --
RIONDA: All right. For the record, that's in the approximate area of the T. What was the lighting like back there?
AYALA: Very dim. Very -- almost dark.
RIONDA: Were you using a flashlight to find your way between the townhomes?
AYALA: Yes, sir.
