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Zimmerman Jury Deliberations; Celebrities Black Out Photos to Back Martin Family; What Will Zimmerman Jury Decide; Zimmerman Trial Riveting; NSA Leaker Speaks From Russia; Awaiting Jury Verdict in Zimmerman Trial
Aired July 13, 2013 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM everyone. I'm Don Lemon live in Sanford, Florida, where we are awaiting a verdict in the George Zimmerman murder trial. They are inside that courthouse right there and they are deliberating going into their 12th hour. Right now the Zimmerman jury, again, going into the 12th hour of deliberations, the six female jurors deciding George Zimmerman's fate, deliberating straight through lunch today.
The case has sparked passionate debate on race in America and gun laws. People across the nation have very strong opinions. But it all comes down to six women to decide whether George Zimmerman should go to prison for the shooting death of 17-year-old teenager Trayvon Martin or walk away a free man. The jury has four options. Find Zimmerman guilty of second-degree murder. Find Zimmerman guilty of manslaughter, a lesser charge. Find Zimmerman not guilty. Acquit him. And the fourth option if jurors cannot agree is a hung jury, a mistrial.
We also have a startling development involving Trayvon Martin's cell phone to tell you about right now, a pretrial witness got fired for raising questions about thousands of photos on Martin's cell phone. Ben Kruidbos was the director of Information Technology for the Florida state attorney's office. Now, I want to play just a clip of the former I.T. director testifying at a pretrial hearing. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN KRUIDBOS, I.T. DIRECTOR: I knew that the information existed. And I'd been told two different things by Mr. De La Rionda, one that FDLE would redo the report and the information would be provided and then in a second one that only the source file would be provided. I knew at least one of those approaches was probably inaccurate or wrong. At that point the more that I thought about it, I was curious if I had any legal exposure. And, uhm, at that point I sought counsel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I want to bring in now George Howell who has been covering not only this trial but the story from the very beginning, and he's tracking the developments on this. George, could this be damaging to the prosecution? GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Potentially, Don. Potentially. Let's talk about it from the standpoint of the trial, the case itself, this could open the door, Don, to an appeal if indeed the prosecution did not turn over evidence to the defense team as they should have in a timely manner, so that's a possibility if there's a conviction in this case. When it comes to the prosecutors themselves, you know, there's a possibility, there's a chance of jail time but it's not likely.
It's more likely that it would be a fine or a penalty on the prosecutor, the attorney, whichever attorney's record, and that's something no attorney wants. But this basically goes back to that pretrial discovery violation, a potential discovery violation that the defense raised the red flag about and what we understand as far as Mr. Kruidbos is concerned. He was put on paid administrative leave back on May 28, and Don he received his termination letters the day the jury started deliberating. We understand that they were hand delivered to him.
LEMON: All right, George Howell, we will going to talk more about this, this case has captivated all of us and now we can only wait to see what the verdict will be, what the jury will return.
I want to bring in now our legal analyst to talk about this case, former prosecutor Sunny Hostin and criminal defense Attorney Mark Nejame, they both join me here. Thank you so much for joining us. So, first of all, what do you make of the developments when it comes to Ben Kruidbos, does this make a difference at all?
SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, it doesn't make a difference in terms of the verdict at this point. The jury is not going to stop deliberating. The judge is not going to, you know, announce a mistrial right now, but I think in terms of an appeal certainly it could have some sort of effect. We know that the defense has complained of discovery violations from the very beginning and they claim that they did not have enough time to authenticate some of those text messages and pictures that were on Trayvon Martin's phone and they wanted to enter that into evidence, so I suspect if there's a conviction here, if there's a conviction, they're going to say the outcome of the trial would have changed if we had been given that information earlier, if we had the opportunity to, you know, sort of dig deeper into it and they're going to appeal this case.
LEMON: Yes. And I'm looking, I'm reading the letter that was sent.
HOSTIN: Yes, I have it with me.
LEMON: I have the letter here. And it's saying, you know, they didn't fired him because he testified but what it says here, the letter contended that Kruidbos did a poor job of overseeing the information, the technology department, violated public records law for retaining documents and noted, he was questioned in March when the office was trying to determine who had leaked personal information obtained through a computer breach. This seems to go beyond --
HOSTIN: Yes, they are accusing him of hacking and all sorts of things.
MARK NEJAME, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. It's rather disingenuous, how ironic that the day the jury goes into deliberations he's fired. You know, the fortunes of fate are sometimes so hard to predict. Of course, it was intentional, of course, it had everything to do with his testimony and had everything to do with him trying to out his employers.
LEMON: Yes.
NEJAME: He came forward and said and interestingly I always expected him to say, I had to do the right thing, he just said, no, I didn't want to get arrested.
LEMON: Right.
NEJAME: So, you know, the discovery violations are a big deal and so his firing or not firing, Don, won't make any difference. It's going to be a point of appeal if there's a conviction regardless.
LEMON: Then judge said that would be handled after --
HOSTIN: That's right.
LEMON: OK.
HOSTIN: The sanctions would be handled after, you know, the defense has asked for sanctions. I have to tell you, though, it is odd that this staff member, the I.T. officer of this prosecutor's office would say that he felt he had some sort of criminal exposure. He was the one that was sort of trying to make a legal determination, what should and should not be turned over is a determination to be made by a prosecutor, not by the I.T. officer, so there is something going on here.
LEMON: Right.
HOSTIN: That we just don't know about, they're accusing him of a lot and what he is saying doesn't quite make sense to my ears.
NEJAME: But I do understand where he was coming from. He was saying that he believes it was a legal obligation for the state, who is an employee --
HOSTIN: But he's not a lawyer.
NEJAME: I agree with that entirely, but I'm just giving you his explanation, explaining where he was coming from, that he believed because he's the I.T. person who's required to gather all this information and he knows it was gathered and not turned over, then he's saying, well, as completely as wrong as he may be about that, he nevertheless thought that he had --
LEMON: Sunny, he is saying he's not a lawyer. Is it his position to do that, that's the question?
HOSTIN: No.
LEMON: No.
HOSTIN: No, I mean, I've worked with a lot of I.T. people on my cases and, you know, you ask them, yes, maybe to download some things onto on his disk and retrieve things --
LEMON: Is it insubordination?
HOSTIN: It's just odd. They don't make the legal call. They don't determine what gets turned over so he's saying, you know, I turned this over -- or rather, I compiled this for the government but I felt uncomfortable because I don't think they turned everything over.
NEJAME: And here's a quandary, if in fact, you know that something should have been turned over, do you not have an ethical obligation as being a representative of that office to turn to it over? Now, I think the way he handled it he should have had counsel and then dealt with other counsel but I think what his position was if I outed it, then it was going to get out there, they were going to go ahead and bury it.
LEMON: Let's talk about it, we're going into the 12th hour, we're into the 12th hour of deliberations, what do you make of the time here? Does it say anything? Everyone is trying to read the tea leaves.
HOSTIN: Hey, you know, they always used to say when I was prosecuting cases a quick verdict meant you got a verdict, meant you know, the prosecution got a verdict, but now when you look at all these high profiled cases, some, you know, come back with an acquittal really, really quickly. Some come back with a conviction after a long time of deliberations, so I don't know that we can read much more into the amount of time they're taking other than this is a meticulous jury. This is a methodical jury. We could see that during the trial.
LEMON: Yes. All the evidence, we need a list of everything. Oh, yes, that was brought in.
HOSTIN: Yes. And they took so many notes, Don.
LEMON: OK.
HOSTIN: I mean, you know, that's it.
LEMON: All right. Stand by. You'll going to get to weigh in. Don't worry about it. We got a lot of show to go here throughout the evening here on CNN, so thank you very much, guys. Coming up here, opinions are greatly divided about the George Zimmerman trial, we're going see how people are reacting across social media, and new images of the aftermath of that fiery train crash that devastated a Canadian town.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Don Lemon here in Sanford, Florida, with CNN's special coverage of the George Zimmerman trial. The jury is in its 12th hours of deliberations and right now social media buzzing with views on the Zimmerman trial. People voicing very strong opinions.
CNN's Nick Valencia has been monitoring Facebook and twitter for some reaction. Nick, what are you seeing?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don, George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin two of the most popular names on the internet today and what we've seen since we've monitored social media from this morning is that the overwhelming support on social media sites like Facebook, like Instagram, like twitter is supporting Trayvon Martin.
Of course, George Zimmerman does have his supporters, a lot of them coming out on conservative blogs and websites but the main theme that we've seen spill over from last night into this morning and this afternoon is the trending blackout for Trayvon Martin. Earlier today -- earlier -- yesterday, I should say, Benjamin Crump tweeted out this trying to solicit tweets from celebrities, trying to get them to change their Facebook profile pictures, Instagram profile pictures, and twitter profile pictures to black, to show solidarity with Trayvon Martin.
We've seen rap mogul P. Diddy do it. Also, Floor Rider (ph), he's a hip-hop artist. And an actress, Gabrielle Union has also jumped on board. But it's not just celebrities, Don, it's also everyday citizens who are watching this trial from start to finish. We've asked them to send us their reactions to the trial and we got this tweet all the way from Nigeria that says, "The U.S. Justice system will mean less if he walks free. It's murder. That deserves justice."
Michael Worthy weighed in with this tweet saying, "I believe that George Zimmerman will get what he deserves. God knows what he did and he can't escape God's justice." George Zimmerman's supporters also weighing in on twitter and trying to get the trending #IamGeorgeZimmerman. He also has a Facebook page that just eclipsed 11,000 likes in the last couple of hours, the most popular comment on that Facebook page is this one.
"Ten thousand Americans believe that George Zimmerman is innocent #can'tbeattheZimmerman #FreeTheZ." This case has a lot of people talking on social media. And as we continue to watch the verdict, we can only expect that more and more people will be weighing in with their opinions -- Don.
LEMON: All right. Nick Valencia, thank you very much. This case again exploding on social media and is still a very hot topic online with different opinions about the verdict George Zimmerman deserves.
We're joined now by three people with their own thoughts on the trial and all of them I'm sure on social media. Criminal defense Attorney Holly Hughes is in Atlanta, CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor himself Paul Callan is in New York and Brian Kabateck is an L.A. based attorney.
First to you, Paul, I hear you have been responding to people on social media and I have a little bit, but I only have so many hours in a day.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you and me both. You know, I appeared on the Erin Burnett show last night, and they decided to open it up to social media and to solicit questions and so I fielded them for two or three hours yesterday. Huge number of questions coming in on Twitter and Facebook. Kind of interesting because, you know, with the 125-character limit on Twitter, they have to be sort of focused questions. And I found them to be pretty sophisticated questions about charges and the law and the evidence in the case and, you know, quite a few crackpots as well, you know, accusing people of various nefarious attitudes. But for the most part, very well informed group of people following the trial.
LEMON: I want to play this from the Sanford Police Department and get the rest of my panel's reaction. This is yesterday responding to possible act of violence after a verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECIL SMITH, SANFORD POLICE CHIEF: As we await this verdict, we'd like to remind everyone that the city of Sanford has been a peaceful location since that time 17 months ago. And it remains a peaceful location.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And now had the Martin family's Attorney Benjamin Crump responding to that just a short time ago here on CNN. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There have been threats on social media, that doesn't concern you?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: I mean, the threats Sybrina got, we just don't cry about it like they choose to do all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. So, do you -- what will happen, what do you think will happen or will you be OK if he is acquitted? Do you think he will be acquitted?
CRUMP: Well, I think the parents will be heartbroken. They don't want the killer of their unarmed child to not be held accountable. They don't want his death to be in vain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Holly Hughes, many people are finding it odd that the Sanford Police Department would come out and say that when most of the demonstrations so far have been peaceful and then -- and most of the threats that people have been talking about have been on social media. And you heard Benjamin Crump saying, do you know how many threats people get on social media, that's kind of what people do on social media.
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. But bear in mind, Don, we don't have a verdict yet. I think it would be irresponsible for the Police Department not to address the possibility that if George Zimmerman is acquitted, some people may react violently. And if they don't come out and say that, if they don't encourage everybody to be peaceful, then they're not really doing their job. You know, it's one thing for people to posture and say he shouldn't get away with murder. But what happens, God forbid, that he is completely walk.
And I say God forbid, for those people who think that there should be a conviction. You've got the other side who believe this should never have been charged, it's a true self-defense case and are they going to be unhappy if he gets convicted, so I think it is responsible for them to encourage people.
LEMON: What if he's found guilty, though -- what if he's found guilty, though, Holly?
HUGHES: Then you may have his supporters who say, this is an injustice and they may also react violently. This isn't one side or another. This is highly emotional. It is emotionally charge on both sides, Don and you don't want anybody to react. Let's face it. The whole premise of this case is that the state brought is that George Zimmerman overreacted, right? It was an unarmed teenager and he prejudged and he went out there and committed an act of violence.
So, that's exactly what we don't want to see happen here. We don't want people's emotions and fears to run amok and create violence, do you think that Sybrina Fulton or Tracy Martin would want anybody hurt in a demonstration in the name of their son? That would break their hearts.
LEMON: I want to get Brian Kabateck in here. Brian, you know, reaction on social media, threats on social media, people talking about it. Do you think that that will translate into actual violence in Sanford and other cities?
BRIAN KABATECK, ATTORNEY: Well, I think I've seen a lot of people use social media to say and speak their mind but they don't necessarily follow through on it. It's very easy for people to say anything that they want to say when they're anonymous, it's a complete different situation when they have to get out there in front of it. I think this trial has been so well covered and I think that people recognize that it's a difficult, difficult case for the prosecution, that if there is a not guilty verdict on both manslaughter and on the second- degree murder, I think most people are going to recognize that they watch the trial, they've seen the evidence come in, it was very thoughtful, we've got a jury now that's 12 hours into the deliberation.
This is not going to turn into I predict a widespread problem out there, outside of social media. Social media will continue to comment on it. People continue to talk anonymously and say anything they want to say about the trial. But it's still a concern and Police Departments have to be concerned across the city where -- across the country in cities, big cities, small cities, but I just don't think it's going to be a big issue. CALLAN: You know, Don --
LEMON: Right. Paul, Holly --
Go ahead, Paul, real quick. I'm up against a break.
CALLAN: OK. One quick thing is trials are not fair social commentary on American society. It's just an evaluation of the evidence in a particular case and I think we often make that mistake when we think, you know, a jury is deciding something about America. They're deciding what the evidence is in this case and that's why it's inappropriate for there to be violence about a verdict.
LEMON: All right. Stand by all of you. We're going to continue to hear and await the verdict for the five or six women jury in the murder trial of George Zimmerman. We'll going to bring you their decision live as it happens and we have other news of the day to tell you about including new information about last week's Asiana Airlines crash and the chaos on the runway in the moments after the crash.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALINA CHO, CNN ANCHOR: Plenty going on in the world today. I've got the headlines in just a moment, but we are definitely keeping our eyes on Sanford, Florida, that's where a six women jury is deliberating George Zimmerman's faith. Second day, 11-plus hours, of course, we will break into whatever we are doing to go live to Sanford the moment we hear something significant is developing.
Hi, everybody, I'm Alina Cho in New York, CNN's special coverage of the George Zimmerman trial returns in just a moment. But first, a look at some of the other news that's happening today. The death toll still rising in that run-away train explosion in Canada. Police in Quebec say, there are now 33 people confirmed dead, about 30 others still missing. This new video shows massive debris from the blast coating the town.
The train company's CEO faced anger from residents when he visited the town on Wednesday. He has said that the train engineer may have lied when he said he set 11 hand brakes on the train cars before the accident. One week ago today, the train cars filled with crude oil exploded into an inferno, authorities say the massive fire may have vaporized the victims.
One day after a deadly train derailment in France the nation paused today to remember those victims, a moment of silence was held at rail stations and on trains across the country. At least six people were killed, 22 others injured when four train cars jumped the tracks. It happened just south of Paris. Investigators say, yesterday's accident was caused by a failure in the switching mechanism on the tracks. The train was carrying about 370 passengers.
Another deadly accident. This one involving a bus carrying children. This one happened just outside Moscow. At least 18 people were killed, 25 others injured when a gravel truck lost control and smashed into that bus. The crash was caught on tape by someone who was just passing by in a car. The impact so intense the bus was split in half. Officials say the truck driver has a history of causing accidents.
In San Francisco now and some sad news to report related to last weekend's crash of that Asiana Airlines flight. Hospitals officials say a third crash victim has now died. She's only being identified as a girl. Her parents have asked that no other information about her be released. Two other girls both 16 also died in the crash. We've also learned that one of those girls was actually hit on the runway by a fire truck but it still has not been determined if she was already dead when she was hit.
Meantime, an airport officials have been working to resume normal operations there. The runway that was the site of the crash reopened last night.
Typhoon Soulik is creeping toward China after drenching Taiwan with eight inches of rain. It all happened in just one day. The storm lashed the island with strong winds and rain, but its trip over the island sapped its strength. It's now been weakened to the equivalent of a category one hurricane. Nevertheless, China is bracing for that typhoon. It's expected to bring even more rain to areas already soaking wet from earlier storms.
I'm Alina Cho, we'll go back to Sanford, Florida, in just a minute as we await a verdict on the George Zimmerman murder trial, and as we await on that verdict, it's worth looking back at how we got back here, all the way back to the opening statement, and a joke that few understood and didn't make anyone laugh. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Live coverage of the George Zimmerman trial and there you see the Seminole County courthouse where today for eight-and-a-half hours, the jury has been deliberating. They've worked through lunch. The George Zimmerman trial, the arguments on both sides are now done and now it's in the hands of the jury, if they do settle on decision, it will one of these three, second-degree murder, manslaughter, or not guilty. That's it. Between yesterday and today, the six women jury has been behind closed doors for a total of about 12 hours now.
And this man who testified in the trial has now officially been fired from the Florida state attorney's office, his name is Ben Kruidbos, he said under oath that prosecutors deliberately withheld from the defense pictures and text found on Trayvon Martin's cell phone, Kruidbos was the I.T. director at the State Attorney's office. He'd been on paid leave for several weeks and he got a termination letter just yesterday.
I want to bring in now Sunny Hostin who is CNN's legal analyst and Mark Nejame who is a prosecutor and an attorney -- he's an attorney and a legal analyst. Sorry, he'll say, I'm not a prosecutor. But you know everything about this.
Waht's interesting, as we sit here talking about this, and you are looking at the jury instructions, 27 pages -- we had them yesterday -- do you think it's odd that they've been in there so long? They worked through lunch, and nothing?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm surprised. I mean, you know, they got the inventory list of all of the evidence yesterday. There are about 200 pieces of evidence, so I would imagine they would look through the evidence. But typically, after about 10 hours, you usually get a note from the jury asking for clarification on some part of the law, because once they understand the facts and they decide what the facts are, then they apply the facts to the law. We haven't heard a peep out of this jury. I can't believe it. I'm looking through the jury instructions as an attorney, as an experienced attorney, I have some questions about it, but they don't seem to have any.
Are you surprised at this? I'm surprised.
MARK NEJAME, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'm not. But I am starting -- we just figured it out, it looks like they've can in deliberations for 12, 13 hours now. And that's starting to be on the other side of -- that's a long time. So, I think Sunny's point's a good one.
But I think what they're doing is there's really some very, very passionate debates going on. This jury took so many notes, as we talked about a hundred times, and I think they're going through it, back and forth. They've all seen the trial presentation, but like much of America, they are walking away, many of the jurors, a completely different perspective as to what each one of them saw.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: As someone who is not a legal expert --
NEJAME: Yeah.
LEMON: -- you said you have all of this information that was given to you over what was it, 13, 14 days --
HOSTIN: Yes.
LEMON: -- not one question?
HOSTIN: Not one question on the law. It surprises me because in most of the cases I've tried, they always come back with a question about, well, what is -- what do you mean by reasonable, or justifiable homicide, you know, can you define this term? Got nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: You know, it tells me that, you know, they are still looking through the evidence. They're still trying to figure out the facts. It tells me they almost haven't even gotten to the law yet.
NEJAME: That's my point. I agree with that. I think it may be coming.
Look, it is too early to predict any type of hung jury, they're still within the normal bound of time for a case of this complexity and it's almost a three week long trial and dozens of witnesses.
LEMON: Hung jury.
NEJAME: But it's a real possibility, if you were to try to get a unanimous verdict amongst the public, you think you could get one right now?
(LAUGHTER)
This is a microcosm. Could it happen? Yes. We're a way from there.
But I'll tell you, the next hour I'll have a better opinion on this, the next hour we'll know whether the jury wants to keep on working through the evening, if they're done for the day --
HOSTIN: They're not even close.
NEJAME: -- that tells me that they've got a long way to go.
LEMON: We usually find out around 5:30.
(CROSSTALK)
NEJAME: And we're right about there.
LEMON: Yeah, right around there.
Thank you. Stand by. I'll talk to you a little bit later one.
The George Zimmerman trial began with a bang and a whimper, with cursing in the opening statement and a joke that fell flat. It turned into a riveting drama, one that forced America to take a hard look at itself. And as we await a verdict, there's no doubt it held our attention as soon as the gavel dropped.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): Explosive moments in court and it started on day one, right out of the gate in opening statement.
JOHN GUY, PROSECUTOR: "(EXPLETIVE DELETED) punks. These (EXPLETIVE DELETED), they always get away." Those were the words in that man's chest when he got out of his car armed with a fully loaded semiautomatic pistol and two flashlights to follow on foot Trayvon Benjamin Martin who was walking home from a 7-Eleven armed with 23 ounces of Arizona-brand fruit juice and a small bag of Skittles candies.
DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Knock, knock. Who's there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who?
All right. Good. You're on the jury.
Nothing?
(LAUGHTER) That's funny.
LEMON: A lot of people didn't find it funny. And defense attorney, Don West, ended up apologizing later.
Other key moments? Testimony from neighbors who witnessed part of the fight and called 911. We heard screaming in the background and the gunshot that ended Trayvon Martin's life.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: I can't see him. I don't want to go out there. I don't know what's going on so --
911 OPERATOR: The victim's yelling help?
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Yes.
(SHOUTING)
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: 911 OPERATOR: All right, what is your phone number?
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: Just -- there's gunshots.
(END AUDIO FEED)
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: There's two guys in the backyard with flashlights.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: And there's a black guy down that look like he's been shot and he's dead.
911 OPERATOR: He's -- OK.
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: He's laying, and there's multiple people calling right now, I'm thinking.
(END AUDIO FEED)
LEMON: And, of course, the star witness for the prosecution, Rachel Jeantel, Trayvon Martin's friend, who was defiant and later criticized for her attitude in court.
We want to warn you some of the language you are about to hear may be offensive.
DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Describing the personal is what made you think it was racial?
RACHEL JEANTEL, WITNESS: Yes.
WEST: And that's because he described him as a "creepy (EXPLETIVE DELETED) cracker"?
JEANTEL: Yes.
WEST: So, it was racial, but it was because Trayvon Martin put race in this.
JEANTEL: No.
WEST: You don't think that's a racial comment?
JEANTEL: No.
WEST: You don't think that "creepy (EXPLETIVE DELETED) cracker" is a racial comment?
JEANTEL: No.
LEMON: George Zimmerman didn't testify on his own behalf, but perhaps he didn't need to. Throughout the trial we heard seven statements from Zimmerman about the shooting. And one of them was captured on video, a reenactment he did with investigators one day after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Felt like my body was on the ground and my head was on the cement and he kept slamming and slamming, and I kept yelling, help, help, help. He put his hand on his nose -- on my nose and the other hand on my mouth and said (EXPLETIVE DELETED). And I tried to squirming again because all I could think about, when he was hitting my head against this, I felt like my head was going to explode.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: During the prosecution's cross-examination of Dennis Root, a use-of-force specialist, John Guy brought in a foam dummy, straddling it to show that George Zimmerman was inconsistent about his statement about Trayvon Martin going for his gun. Then, defense attorney, Mark O'Mara, decided he would borrow the mannequin for his own demonstration.
GUY: Here's his belly button right here.
DENNIS ROOT, USE OF FORCE EXPERT: Yes, sir.
GUY: By the way, did you have the defendant do this?
ROOT: No, sir.
GUY: When you talked to him, you didn't have him do this?
ROOT: No, sir.
GUY: OK. If this person, this mannequin, were carrying a firearm on their waist, where would the gun be right now in relation to me? ROOT: Would be at your left inner thigh.
GUY: Right here. Right?
ROOT: Yes. If he was right-handed it would be at your left inner thigh, yes, sir.
GUY: Right. Underneath my leg?
ROOT: Yes.
MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Were the injuries on Mr. Zimmerman's back of his head consistent with someone doing this on cement?
ROOT: I don't think so.
O'MARA: How about this?
How about somebody resisting the attempt, the injuries, the two lacerations, could that have come from cement if somebody was resisting pushing me down like this?
ROOT: I believe so.
LEMON: Whose theory will the jury believe? We may soon find out, second-degree murder, manslaughter or simply not guilty?
Don Lemon, CNN, Sanford, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: There is still more ahead. We'll take a look at why this trial has captured the focus of so many across the country and the world. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Continuing on with our coverage now, the George Zimmerman murder trial seemed to take on a life of its own, capturing our attention in a way that no other trial has.
I'm joined again by criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes, and L.A.- based attorney, Brian Kabateck.
Holly, I want to start with you.
Let's talk about the big takeaway moments with this trial as you're watching as a prosecutor here. What was your big takeaway moment? What did it mean to you?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: I think Mark O'Mara did a really great job of narrowing down what he think is the crux of the case, self-defense, so he encourages the jurors, when you go in there to deliberate, look first at that issue and just ask yourself, did the state prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense? So, if they listened and took that advice, the fact that it's taking this long I think would make the defense nervous.
LEMON: And, Brian, what do you think?
BRIAN KABATECK, ATTORNEY: I think there were a couple moments in this trial that were pivotal. I think one was when the police detective got on the stand and effectively said that she thought he was credible, Zimmerman was credible. I thought then, when it came down to the very end when we were looking at the closing arguments, the initial opening closing argument by the prosecutor was shrill. He sounded like a second-rate personal-injury lawyer giving a closing argument, trying to play on passion as opposed to the facts of the case. And O'Mara did a spectacular job in his closing argument of being very matter of fact, going through the evidence, putting it all out there for the jury to make rational decisions about why there's reasonable doubt in this case. So I think those are some of the things we're going to see that this case came down to. But it was a long trial and there was an awful lot there for the jurors to consider and I'm sure that's why we're at 12 hours into deliberations.
LEMON: All right. Thank you. Stand by to both of you.
Let's look at some of the other news of the day next.
And as we continue to monitor the latest from the trial of George Zimmerman, the six-member jury moves into its 12th hour of deliberations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALINA CHO, CNN ANCHOR: This is a live look at the courthouse outside Sanford, Florida, where we are standing by waiting for any word from the jury still deliberating the case against George Zimmerman. We could hear something in two minutes, two hours, or maybe not at all today. So, stay with CNN. We are ready to go with breaking news as soon as we hear that something is happening.
Hi, everybody, I'm Alina Cho in New York. Here are some of the other stories we're following at this hour.
And this is a story just in to CNN. It's been another deadly day in Iraq. At least 14 people were killed dozens injured in three bombings around Baghdad. Nine of those deaths were in a busy shopping area in the southern part of the city. Another bombing took place near a Sunni mosque. And on Friday, at least 33 people were killed when a suicide bomber blew himself up inside a coffeehouse in Kirkuk.
Seven U.N. peacekeepers were killed today during an ambush attack in the Sudan southern Darfur region. The convoy came under heavy gunfire near its base, just north of the state capital. A U.N. spokesman said the peacekeepers were far outnumbered. It's the single deadliest attack on the international force during its five years of deployment there. So far, there has been no claim of responsibility.
Hopes of achieving a political reconciliation in Egypt are fading fast. A state-run media source is saying that prosecutors are investigating ousted president, Mohamed Morsy, and leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood. The investigation stems from accusations of spying and killing protesters. Meanwhile, both sides are digging in. A pro-Morsy rally demanding the former president's reinstatement is taking place right now in Cairo. And a similar, much larger rally was held last night. Despite that, the interim prime minister is still moving forward. He's hoping to have a government in place by early next week.
The White House says there is no indication that Russia is prepared to send intelligence leaker, Edward Snowden, back to the United States. President Obama spoke with his Russian counterpart by phone yesterday about the fate of Snowden. He is wanted in the U.S. for leaking intelligence secrets and has been hiding out at Moscow's main airport.
Yesterday, Snowden made his first appearance in nearly three weeks.
Our Phil Black explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Edward Snowden is increasingly a frustrated man. He has no travel documents and few options. Now, that's why he called a group of human rights workers based in Russia to the airport where he has been effectively camping out, we believe, for the last three weeks or so.
And it was during this meeting that he made a statement, some of which was videoed. It's the first time we've seen or heard from him since he arrived in Moscow.
EDWARD SNOWDEN, NSA WHISTLEBLOWER: A little over one month ago, I had a family, a home in paradise, and I lived in great comfort. I also had the capability without any warrant of law to search for, to seize, and read your communications. Anyone's communications at any time.
BLACK: It was during this meeting that Snowden announced a fairly significant change in his plans. He no longer wants to make the direct jump to one of the Latin-American countries like Venezuela that has offered to house him permanently. Instead, he says he wants the Russian government to grant him asylum here so he can stay here at least temporarily.
He said he'd come to this conclusion, to this decision out of necessity. He now knows and believes that should try to travel to Latin-America from Russian, it's very likely that the United States and its allies will do all they possibly can to intercept him.
This is not the first time Snowden applied for asylum from Russian. He withdrew a previous application because the response from the Russian government was that he would have to stop any and all activity aimed at hurting the United States. He said at the time that was not something he could tolerate. Now he said that's something, a condition, he can live up to.
Phil Black, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: The Texas Senate has passed a tough new anti abortion bill. The measure has already passed the state House and Governor Rick Perry has indicated he will sign it into law. It is the same bill that was the subject of a Democratic filibuster last month. They had argued the bill would shut down most of the state's clinics. The bill would ban abortions after 20 weeks of gestation and tighten restrictions and rules governing abortion clinics.
A quick programming note. Texas Governor Rick Perry will join CNN for an exclusive interview tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern on CNN's "State of the Union."
Penn State ready to settle with some of the men who accused former assistant football coach, Jerry Sandusky, of sexual abuse. No settlement agreements have been signed yet, but they will be offered to some who made claims against the school. A judge sentenced Sandusky back in October to more than 30 years in prison for abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period.
We are awaiting the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial. We'll bring it to you live when it happens. For that, we are going to get right back to my friend, Don Lemon, in Sanford, Florida -- Don?
LEMON: Alina, thank you very much.
We're hearing about some movement now in the courtroom here in Sanford, Florida, at the Seminole County Courthouse. We're also hearing one of the attorneys at least is in the courtroom there. You see both of them there, the prosecution sitting at the table. And behind him -- all of the attorneys, I'm told by my producers, are in the courtroom. Not exactly sure what is going on. It could just be the end of the day. But, again, we are hearing there is movement in the courtroom.
We're also hearing that -- I don't even want to say that. It's not a verdict -- they're saying it is not a verdict. Scratch that. We don't know what it is. We're still awaiting a verdict. There is movement in the courtroom.
As we are here waiting for this, I want to go to Mark Nejame and also Sunny Hostin, sitting next to me.
We heard word the attorneys are entering the courtroom, and just a couple seconds ago, we were saying, hey, it's been a while, no questions. We haven't heard from the jurors. What's going on?
NEJAME: I think this is going to be the most telling indication as to whether they're getting closer or whether we're going to have a jury that is really fighting it out a little bit.
This jury has been a hard working jury. I think if they come back in and say they're done for the day and they don't want to go until --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I'm told they do have a question. HOSTIN: Oh.
LEMON: But we don't know what it is.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You're a smart lady.
HOSTIN: Finally, a question.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: You were right. You're a smart lady.
HOSTIN: It's about that time. They've lived with the facts for several weeks now. They've lived with the facts to deliberate from in the jury room for about 12 hours. Conventional wisdom always says that usually and generally you get an hour for each day of trial.
LEMON: There is -- sorry about that, Sunny. There is George Zimmerman walking into the courtroom. You see his parents walking behind him and his wife as well.
It's funny. Iran into them this morning as they were leaving the courtroom. You see him sitting down next to Don West and also there's Mark O'Mara on the far side.
HOSTIN: I will tell you, Don, this is a very difficult time for attorneys, because the case is out of your hands at this point. You've done everything that you could have done. You know, you are living with the "would have, should have, could have," and the only guidance you have is from these jury questions. So it's a little like reading tea leaves but not really. Because if they ask you for another definition of manslaughter, clarification on manslaughter, you know, they are past murder two. If they ask you about murder two, you know they're really just beginning on the verdict form. So you really can gain a lot of insight.
LEMON: So you can gain some insight from what the question is?
HOSTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
LEMON: Is it -- I mean, it is not an exact science but is it --
HOSTIN: It's not an exact science but you really can get a lot of information from what a jury asks. I mean, if they come back and they say, we are stuck --
LEMON: Yeah.
HOSTIN: -- we need some help --
LEMON: I just want to say, I noticed this morning -- I think it was John King. No, it was Chris Cuomo asked me. You know, what was his demeanor like? What was George Zimmerman's demeanor like when you bumped into him, as I was rounding the corner going to court this morning? And he was smiling. But his parents were not. His wife wasn't smiling. His defense team wasn't smiling. But he was. I just saw a couple moments there of him, smiling in the courtroom. He has been in much better spirits than the people around him.
NEJAME: Within the next few hours, you could be spending the rest of your life in prison or you could be going home with your family. So that is what's going on inside him. Whether he has a nervous laughter or he is in denial, who knows? But in the next few hours, one person's fate is simply going to be determined by a few people in that courtroom.
LEMON: Yeah. And you've been hard at work on your phone. Are you finding out any information as to what is going on inside this courtroom?
NEJAME: No.
LEMON: Or what the question will be?
NEJAME: I think they're waiting on us to tell them.
LEMON: But I do think it is interesting, depending on what they want clarification on or what question they will ask, will give you an indication of how far along they are in these deliberations.
HOSTIN: That, and another thing I think is very interesting is we don't know yet who the jury foreperson is.
LEMON: Right.
HOSTIN: That can tell you a lot as well. My guess is that it's the woman that's in her 60s that sits in the back. She was a very methodical person as well. She may be the leader here.
LEMON: I want to just update our viewers at home.
Just a short time ago, we got word that there was movement in the courtroom. That the attorneys were all making their way back to the courtroom. And now they are here. They're back in the courtroom, the attorneys for both sides, including George Zimmerman. They're bringing the jury back in. The jury has a question and needs some clarification about something. They're bringing the jurors in and we're waiting for the judge, Debra Nelson, to come into the Seminole County courtroom and take the jurors' question. The judge will be there in a moment, we're hearing.
The Martin family, Trayvon Martin's family not in the courtroom, but we did see George Zimmerman's mother and father and his wife enter the courtroom with him.
We were just commenting a short time ago, he was, you know, appearing to be a bit jovial with his defense team, sitting with Mark O'Mara and Don West at the table at the defense table.
Again, there it is -- inside, there is Judge Debra Nelson walking into the courtroom. We're going to listen in now. DEBRA NELSON, CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE: The question reads as follows. "May we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter?"
Does counsel want to come up here and view it and propose a response?
LEMON: OK. So they have approached the bench. They're having a moment there. There is George Zimmerman.
Sunny, you said it. The judge just said they need some clarification on a question regarding manslaughter.
HOSTIN: Yeah. I thought that's where they would be. You know what this tells us, because I --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Does this mean they're over second-degree murder?
HOSTIN: That's what it tells me. But it also tells me they could be over self-defense. If you look at the jury instructions, which is why I have a copy in front of me, the beginning of this talks about justifiable homicide and excusable homicide. You don't get to manslaughter until you have determined that that is not applicable.
LEMON: Can we put up the definition of manslaughter? I would hate to go away from this courtroom -- I don't know if you can put it up in a double box here so that we can see.
But there it is: "The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification, and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder."
HOSTIN: But, Don --
LEMON: Much smaller screen here.
HOSTIN: We need to -- what you have to understand is --
LEMON: The prosecution has to prove that.
HOSTIN: Well, that's the thing. You look at that, this is --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: That Trayvon Martin is dead. The prosecution has to prove Trayvon Martin is dead. Martin intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Martin.
HOSTIN: That's a pretty low threshold for this prosecution. Second- degree murder, yes. Much more difficult because it is an intent crime. You have to get into somebody's mind and you have to prove he had a depraved mind. You don't have to prove that for manslaughter. You don't have to get into his mind. So all of the notion of, you know, F'ing punks and these A-holes always get away and that sort of thing, they don't need that. All they have to rely upon is Trayvon is dead and George Zimmerman committed an act that caused the death.
NEJAME: Look, there --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So the jury -- hang on one second, Mark.
We are hearing the jury is not in the courtroom yet. The jury doesn't know the sentencing for manslaughter.
HOSTIN: No.
LEMON: They don't know the punishment for manslaughter.
HOSTIN: That's right.
LEMON: Sorry, go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Here's the punishment rule: Maximum sentence is 30 years in prison. The minimum depends on the sentence guidelines but is likely 10 years. There is no parole in Florida for manslaughter. OK.
NEJAME: It is dangerous to read too much into what the jury is at. I could be three different scenarios with that question alone. They are debating between second-degree and manslaughter. It could be, as Sunny just pointed out, that they have excluded self-defense because self-defense, as we heard the defense argue, is applicable to all counts. Or it could be that there is a holdout and they're saying, no, this is manslaughter and everybody else is saying, no, it's an acquittal. I want to hear what self-defense means.
I think you could interpret it three different ways. And it's what we do. But it does not necessarily tell us anything, except that, clearly, manslaughter is in the mind of at least one or some of the jurors.
LEMON: Again, we don't want to speculate here, but that is the reason you were a prosecutor. You know, you've been through this process numerous times.
As an attorney, you've been through this process as well.
But this at least tells you in some instance where the jurors are in this process.
