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Zimmerman Found Not Guilty; Robert Zimmerman Interview
Aired July 13, 2013 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that's been such a challenge for me. Obviously, while I've tried a number of cases over the last 33 year or so, a number of them would extremely at my state, death penalty cases. Nothing, of course, like this with the media attention. Nothing that had the case tried over and over and over again in the media. Nothing where the media was accused of such irresponsibility early on, frankly, being swept along with this narrative that simply has been shown not to be true. To me, as a trial lawyer, that was incredible distraction because I like to, in fact, the only place I can try a case is in the courtroom and I think we did that. So I don't know how to respond.
MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) for "The Times of London" and "The Daily Beast." You mentioned about George wanting to get his life back. There's one person who is not going to. Have you got any words for Trayvon Martin's family?
O'MARA: They suffered a tragedy. I've acknowledged that to the family on three previous occasions. Nothing can bring back Trayvon Martin. Every time any life is lost particularly a young life, it's a tragedy. We hear about it in car accidents. We hear about it with cancer. I lost a 13-year-old niece to cancer. We hear about it constantly and it's always a tragedy. But I'm not going to shy away from the fact that I think that the evidence supported that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong and that he was battered and beaten by a 17-year-old who for whatever reason and we won't note thought that he had to lash out and attack violently. And it turned out that all of the forensic evidence supports that.
None of it supports that George was ever the aggressor. Certainly not legally and I don't believe morally. So did that end up leading to the tragic loss of life? Yes. Could it have been avoided? Yes. When it really came down to it, 45 seconds before the gunshot when George was getting battered, I still believe that that decision was in Trayvon Martin's hands more than my client's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The family's message.
O'MARA: As I mentioned, they get my greatest sympathies for their tragic loss of their son. No one should ever have to suffer losing a child ever. But it happens much more than what we are willing to acknowledge sometimes or that we want to admit. This is a tragedy like many other loss of children. It's just not one that George was responsible for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE), Valencia Voice. When the jury asked for clarification of instructions regarding manslaughter, were there any narratives between guys and George that you would be facing the lesser charges?
O'MARA: My understanding was that they were confused about I a confusing jury instruction. I said to the judge Mr. West first argued one day and before I started my closing the next day, that the manslaughter instructions is very confusing. I don't want to get into the legal part of it and I know you don't, but if you look at it justifiable homicide is identified within manslaughter, excusable homicide is identified with a manslaughter and somewhere separate is the use of justifiable or use of deadly force. If you try and read those, they are logically inconsistent but not legally inconsistent. And I think that jury as smart as they are because they were thinking looked at it and said why are you telling us about excusable homicide? Just that we had to even though it had no application to the facts of this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I had a question.
O'MARA: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Hi. (INAUDIBLE) with "USA today."
Don West, you said that I am thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty. Can you talk about what the tragedy you're talking about? We talked about civil rights issues here, people not falsely or wrongly linking it to race. Tell me more what you mean by that tragedy into a travesty?
WEST: The tragedy is the loss of Trayvon's life, in every respect, regardless of what he was doing or immediately what led up to it, it's a tragic loss of life. It will not only impact, of course, Trayvon Martin's family and all those that knew him forever and ever. This event itself also impacts George Zimmerman forever and ever and ever. This is something no one gets over. There's no winners here. There's no monsters here. That's the tragedy.
The travesty, it would have been a travesty of justice had George Zimmerman been convicted. That's the travesty.
O'MARA: Thanks, guys appreciate the time. I think someone said it was the last question so --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Just other quick. I heard from your private conversations with George Zimmerman, what was the most compelling statement from George Zimmerman that made you believe in his innocence?
O'MARA: There's not just one but if you really want to look at the statements, the first opportunity that he could say something about this case he said, I was screaming for help and nobody came. When officer Serino challenged him and said I think there may be a video of this, he said thank God. I dismiss with disgust the state's suggestion that he was some cop want-to-be savant who knew that he could take on that bluff. I think that really speaks to what George is going through that night and how he presented it. So if you want to look for insight from him, that was it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did he cry to you?
O'MARA: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Did he ever cry to you, show you emotion?
O'MARA: Absolutely. Sixteen months of being some people called him the most hated man in America for having defended his own life only after getting beat for 45 seconds and then a man who believes in the system whose dad was a judge who maybe wanted to be a cop or prosecutor, then gets two systems went against George Zimmerman that he can't understand.
You guys, the media. He was like a patient in an operating table where mad scene scientists were committing experiments on him and he had no anesthesia. He didn't know why he was turned into this monster but quite honestly, you guys had a lot to do with it. You just did because you took a story that was fed to you and you ran with it and you ran right over him. And that was horrid to him.
Then he comes into a system that he trusts. Let's not forget, six voluntary statements, voluntary surrender and he believes in the system that he really wanted to be part of, right? And then he gets prosecutors that charge him with a crime they could never ever (INAUDIBLE). They lose evidence along the way, right?
So, I don't this anyone would argue with me in this room that they had evidence of second degree murder. This, in your hear kind of stuff, is not what we're supposed to do and not what they're supposed to do. So those two systems failed him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: thank YOU.
O'MARA: Thanks.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: There you hear it, George Zimmerman's defense team taking questions, also really giving some very pointed responses, some very forceful responses about the prosecution. I want to take you back just over an hour ago inside the Seminole county courthouse, specifically in that courtroom on the fifth floor when George Zimmerman heard his fate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the circuit court of the 18th judicial circuit in and for Seminole county, Florida is, state of Florida versus George Zimmerman, verdict, we the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty. So say we all, foreperson.
JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, SEMINOLE COUNTY: Does either side want to poll the jury? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would, your honor.
NELSON: OK, ladies and gentlemen, I mean ladies, I'm sorry, as your juror number is called please answer whether this is your verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-29, is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-76, is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-37, is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-51, is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: E-6, be is this your verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror E-40, is this your verdict? Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That verdict coming almost 10:00 eastern straight up from inside that courtroom. We're getting reaction from around the world from celebrities from the Martin family. You're going to hear it coming up here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
We, the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty. So say we all, foreperson.
NELSON: Does either side want to poll the jury?
WEST: We would, your honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: Does either side want to poll the jury?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would, your honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: The jury has spoken in the George Zimmerman trial and that jury has found George Zimmerman not guilty in the murder of Trayvon Martin. Not guilty in the murder of Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman is a free man tonight. Reaction is coming from all over the world. On twitter reaction from Martin's family and first 7th, this is from Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin. Here's what he says
He says Quote, "God bless me and Sybrina with Tray and even in his death, I know my baby proud of the fight We, along with all of you put up for him, God you bless."
And he also said even though I am brokenhearted my faith is un- shattered. I will always love my baby Tray. Thanks to everyone who will be with us, and who will be with us, we together can make sure that their doesn't happen again.
I want to go to Benjamin Crump, the Martin family attorney. He is speaking.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: To the prosecution, Miss Angela Corey, Mr. Bernie De la Rionda, attorney John Guy and Mr. Rich Mantei, and everybody from the prosecutor's office, to everybody that put their hoodies up and top everybody who said I am Trayvon, his family express their heartfelt gratitude for helping them these past 17 months.
To Tracy and Sybrina, Trayvon's parents, your tireless work in the name of your son has made Sanford and many other cities just a little safer for all our children. I know Trayvon is up there proud at the changes that you as his parents have inspired in his name.
This morning, Martin Luther King's daughter Dr. Bernice King, tweeted me a message that read today is a defining moment for the status of my father's dream. Whatever the Zimmerman verdict is, she tweeted, in the words of my father, we must conduct ourselves on the higher plain of dignity and discipline. Trayvon Martin will forever remain in the annals of history next to Medgar Evers and Emmett Till as symbols for the fight for equal justice for all.
Tracey and Sybrina are thankful for all those prayers over the past 17 months since the death of their son. This is a very trying time for their family and we ask that you respect their privacy.
In conclusion, for Trayvon to rest in peace, we must all be peaceful. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a couple of questions. Yes.
AMANDA EVANS, NEWS 13: Hi. Amanda Evans, News 13.
Mr. Crump, the defense gave you a hard time throughout this. They just said moments ago that your first interview with Rachel Jeantel was made for TV but not an investigation. Your thoughts on that?
CRUMP: You know, it is easy to go back in a vacuum. Miss Jeantel, God bless her, she did not want to get involved in this matter and no way possible. And so, I think it's pretty well documented about the challenges we had to try to get her to do an interview and finally we got her to agree to do a telephone interview and we feel that we did that interview the best we could to make sure that we had her statement. And Trayvon's parents are thankful that she did come forward to act as a witness in this case something she did not want to do.
STEPHANIE KOPEWHELM (PH), WEST 2 NEWS: Stephanie Kopewhelm (ph), West 2 News. Does it bother you when people say this case is not about race?
CRUMP: No, it doesn't. But you know, the whole world was looking at this case for a reason and what people wanted to see as we all said how far we have come in America in matters of equal justice and certainly as we have said we'll be intellectual little dishonest if we didn't acknowledge the racial undertones in this case. So we have to have very responsible conversations about how we get better as a country. And move forward from this tragedy and learn from it.
DANNY MORALES, VALENCIA VOICE: Mr. Crump, Danny Morales of the Valencia Voice here. Could you just give us a little bit of insight on why the Martins weren't in the courtroom for the verdict reading?
DARYL PARKS, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Upon our advice, we knew this would be a very emotional time for them. As you know, they have sat here for four weeks. And I don't know how hard it was. We were with them every step of the way. What they had to endure, the pain of hearing gunshot after gunshot after gunshot say, staying calm, faces of their son in the morgue time and time again as late as yesterday.
Upon our advice, we recommended to them they should go home and attend their home church since we were going into Sunday. So upon our advice, they went home to go to church tomorrow. And that's what they will do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Mr. Crump and Mr. Parks. Hello. I think Mr. Parks, you may have answered this question in part but I'll ask it again if I can. Where was the family when the announcement was made in court tonight, and did they skip this because they expected a particular outcome?
PARKS: Well, I will just say they were in a safe location and remain in a safe location. They will be going to church tomorrow, though, but I won't disclose the location at this time for security purposes.
CRUMP: Any more questions?
Please remember that this is a very challenging time for their family and please respect their privacy. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: May I ask one last question? I'm sorry.
I asked the same question of the prosecution. It's a question that came up during the trial the prosecutors raised. Do you think the outcome would have been different if the races were reversed? If George Zimmerman was black and Trayvon Martin was white?
CRUMP: Well, we know that a 17-year-old unarmed boy was killed. And I think all America has to dig deep in their heart to try to find out how we as a society can learn from this tragedy and how we can make sure that it's not repeated.
KYLE HIGHTOWER, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Just one more. Kyle Hightower from the Associated Press.
It's for you, Natalie. You were born and raised in Sanford. You know, you've been in the community. What are you saying to the Sanford people who may not like this verdict tonight? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of people worried about some things happening. What do you say about your city and how they'll receive this news tonight?
NATALIE JACKSON, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: What I say is what I told Sybrina and Tracy. I sent them a text and I told them, I said I listened to the sheriff's press conference yesterday and he noted all these changes that have been made in the wake of the shooting of Trayvon Martin, and there's a victory in that.
There was a child died and I think that because people took to social media and because 2.2 million Americans signed a petition on change.org and demanded not in an effort to persecute George Zimmerman but in an effort to say that a black 17-year-old child should be able to walk home from the store and not be shot.
So, I think for the people who did that, I don't want them to be discouraged because I think they may have saved the life of another child because I think that from now on, if there is someone that wants to follow someone with a gun, I think they'll think twice about it. And so for those people, I say thank you for everything, and Sanford has changed for the better. And I think that you know, there is Grace and dignity in what these people did in the peaceful protests.
CRUMP: Thank you.
LEMON: There you're hearing the Martin family representation. Benjamin Crump, Daryl Parks and also Natalie Jackson speaking out. Miss Jackson becoming very emotional there at the end of what she is talking about.
I want to get more reaction now to you as we continue on with this coverage of the Zimmerman verdict here. George Zimmerman found not guilty just about 10:00 p.m. eastern time.
The NAACP has responded now to the George Zimmerman verdict. And this is from the group's chairman, Roslyn Brock. She says today, justice failed Trayvon Martin and his family. We call immediately for the justice department to conduct an investigation into the civil rights violations committed against Trayvon Martin. This case has re- energized the movement to end racial profiling in the United States.
And this is from NAACP president, Benjamin Jealous. He says we are outraged and heartbroken over today's verdict. We stand with Trayvon's family and we are called to act. We will pursue civil rights charges with the department of justice. We will continue to fight for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws in every state and we will not rest until racial profiling in all of its forms is outlawed.
We should tell you that tomorrow Benjamin Jealous will be on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley starting at 9:00 a.m. eastern here on CNN.
And the U.S. justice department has reacted. A justice spokesperson telling CNN tonight, the department continues to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal investigation as well as the evidence and testimony from the state trial.
Here's a man I've been wanting to speak to all evening, and that is CNN's Martin Savidge. Martin was inside the come when they will verdict came down.
Martin, take us inside.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At 9:50 is when that the notice went out to the court that there was a verdict. We were down stairs in courtroom 1B. That is the courtroom we all gather in way. It was a race to take it up the elevator, probably 36 reporters and then on top of that the legal teams that have to get up there, the families that have to get into place. We all barely got into the seats, barely got into the courtroom and then you saw George Zimmerman rise an indication that meant the jurors were on their way back. The judge had called them.
Absolute silence. You could tell that will everyone in that courtroom was extremely tense. That went from journalist all the way through family members. The judge admonished everyone, warned as any judge would at a verdict like this that no matter what it may be people should not have the an outburst, should not make any noise and not do the anything overt.
You saw George Zimmerman there, his reaction was, you know, barely discernible. He heard the verdict. You're wondering whether he really got the verdict but then he sat down and, of course, as the jurors were polled it became quite clear.
But it was very simple in many that all the jurors said was not guilty. It wasn't not guilty first, second degree murder or not guilty to manslaughter. It was just this not guilty. The air went out of the room. There was no noise with the exception of some of the family members of George Zimmerman. You could you hear back slapping. It's not even that. They were hugging each other so strongly. You heard that. I looked at the jurors. I watched them the entire time. They were I guess the word is they were nervous.
LEMON: Really?
SAVIDGE: It wasn't that they were -- they just knew that you what was being rendered was very important to everyone in that courtroom. And it wasn't like they smiled at George or anything like that and it wasn't like George Zimmerman smiled back or did any, you know, thank you. None of that.
This was I think acknowledged by everyone in that will courtroom a tragedy. It was everyone on both sides has agreed the death of 17- year-old Trayvon Martin is a tragedy. So I think everyone in that room would have preferred not to be there. But justice had to be ruled upon.
LEMON: What just went through my head, if anything would give them comfort is the mother of Trayvon said all along whatever it was she would accept it and she want everyone. But they didn't know about that because these people were chosen because they knew as little as possible about that George Zimmerman, the trial and media coverage.
SAVIDGE: Right. They were unaware if you believe of course, the preservation of the sequestration is that they did not know these jurors all of this that was going on outside of the courtroom. Didn't know the crowds. Didn't know how every night it's scrutinized analyzed for hours on television. They did not know that this had become an American focus.
And so, it would be remarkable to find out now as they go home free of the burden turn on the television or even go out of this courthouse just to hear the hovering of the helicopters to see the lights. You couldn't hear it inside.
LEMON: Could you hear the demonstrations?
SAVIDGE: No, no. You could not. I listened carefully for that. We could not especially up on the fifth floor. So they were, you know, shielded in every way from that. But now they step out into all of the aftermath.
LEMON: Stand by, Martin because I don't want you to go far. You're providing congratulate great color. Sitting by patiently has been Sunny Hostin here. And Sunny has been with me throughout the evening.
And Sunny told me early on, she just said there is going to be a verdict tonight. And what's your reaction to this verdict?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I'm stunned. Having followed this case day in and day out. But as a lawyer and especially as a former prosecutor I respect the system. I believe in the system. I respect the jury's verdict. But I think justice took the day off today. I think justice failed Trayvon Martin and the Martin family. And I think it's time for reflection about why in today's day and age a young man, a young child cannot go for a snack run and make it home safely.
And as a mother of a young boy, a boy child, I'm concerned about that. And I think we have to have a discussion about why this is the America we live in today.
LEMON: And I had -- I think Mark O'Mara alluded to such but he thinks this brings an even bigger divide to this conversation. But stand by. We are going to talk much more about that.
Much more of it with Martin Savidge and Sunny Hostin coming up.
I want to tell you that next, a CNN exclusive, the brother of George Zimmerman, Robert Zimmerman junior is sitting down live with CNN's Piers Morgan, the first interview from the Zimmerman family since the verdict was read. There they are, and this is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Don Lemon live in Sanford, Florida. I'd like to welcome our viewers here in the United States and those now joining us from around the world on CNN International as we follow the breaking news story.
George Zimmerman is not guilty in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Right now, CNN has an exclusive with George Zimmerman's brother, Robert Jr. The Zimmerman family has been a -- it's been a living nightmare ever since Martin's death in February of 2012.
Let's go to CNN's Piers Morgan for that.
Piers, take it away.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Yes, Don. Thank you very much.
I'm here with Robert Zimmerman. We're live.
You've just heard the verdict within the last hour. I've interviewed you six or seven times in the last year but always in very tense circumstances. I'm now interviewing you when you know your brother is a free man.
How does that feel?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER: I really can't put into words how relieved we are as a family. That's the first thing my father said.
Having said that, I don't think this is a time for high-fiving. I acknowledged, we all have acknowledged that Mr. Trayvon Martin lost his life. It was not an act of murder. It was not an act of manslaughter.
The jury has spoken. Our judicial system has spoken but that does not diminish the tragedy. Death is tragic in any circumstance of someone -- a young person losing their life for whatever circumstances exist.
MORGAN: I know you've just spoken literally in the last moments to your sister, Gracie, who has spoken directly to George after the verdict. How did she describe his mood?
ZIMMERMAN: He is still processing the reality or notion of being a free man, of having what the judge described as no further business before the court. As you know, he's had an ankle monitor on him, a GPS monitor monitoring his every step, his whereabouts and his curfew. None of those things exist anymore. So, I think, you know, he has -- he has some decompression to do, some decompressing, and he has to align himself with himself again as the free George.
MORGAN: Was he emotion? Did Gracie describe how he was on the phone?
ZIMMERMAN: She didn't. Our family was. George is just now getting around to processing.
I think as most of our family is just now getting to process the reality that we're not on the other end of this mountain of misinformation that now the jury has spoken and that now we are exonerated as a family. But more importantly, George is exonerated as a defendant and we are going to process that.
It takes time. We've been on the other end of this for better part of a year and a half now. It's going to take some time to heal.
MORGAN: What will he do?
I mean, he's a free man. He's come out tonight into a world where many people despise him. You know that. They'll continue to, because of this result. It's incredibly polarizing case.
Does he fear for his safety? Does he have concerns about the quality of a life for the rest of his life?
ZIMMERMAN: He has always feared for his safety. We have always feared for his safety and our safety as a family.
Clearly, you know, he's a free man in the eyes of the court but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life. There are factions, there are groups, there are people that would want to take the law into their own hands as they perceived it or, you know, be vigilantes in some sense that they think that justice was not served, they won't respect a verdict no matter how it was reached and they will always present a threat to George and to his family.
MORGAN: Let me replay for you the moment that your brother heard that he was a free man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the Circuit Court of the 18th Judicial Circuit in and for Seminole County, Florida, State of Florida versus George Zimmerman, verdict -- we the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty. So say we all, foreperson.
JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, SEMINOLE COUNTY, FL: Does either side want to poll the jury?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would, your honor.
NELSON: OK, ladies and gentlemen is -- I mean ladies, I'm sorry -- as your juror number is being called, please answer whether this is your verdict. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-29 (ph), is this your verdict?
JUROR B-29: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-76, is in this your verdict?
JUROR B-76: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-37, is this is your verdict?
JUROR B-37: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror B-51, is this your verdict?
JUROR B-51: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror E-6, is this your verdict?
JUROR E-6: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror E-40, is this your verdict?
JUROR E-40: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: He was extraordinarily calm, George, on hearing that.
Let me ask you the difficult questions here.
ZIMMERMAN: Sure.
MORGAN: Many people have reacted with fury tonight. Many people have acted thinking this is the right decision but many have said it's atrocity. It's an outrage. Nobody has been made accountable for the death of Trayvon Martin.
What do you say to those people?
ZIMMERMAN: You know, I think of that we don't make people accountable for death you know as it were because there is a death. Death is unfortunate. Death is a byproduct of as the law ascribes, you know, returning force with appropriate force. The injury found that he acted appropriately in defending his life in accordance with the law.
I would say to them that we're a country of laws. We respect the rule of law. And that respecting this verdict, as we called for before the verdict was in, is the only appropriate thing to do as Americans.
This is our system. This is what we have. It's the best in the world.
And I think that conjecture and speculation and emotional reaction to what people think may or may not have happened has been dominating the conversation for a long time now.
But you know, people called for an arrest. They called for his day in court. They have had their arrest. They have had their day in court.
They have seen blood. They have seen what Trayvon Martin did to my brother and it's time -- it's high time that they accept that the jury system that we have in this country is a system that we should respect.
MORGAN: But they've also seen, of course, what your brother did to Trayvon Martin and many people feel, why did your brother pursue him? Why did he get out of the vehicle and pursue him? Why did he carry a gun? Why is he not in himself feeling any sense of responsibility for what happened because --
ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's --
MORGAN: -- without those two things --
ZIMMERMAN: Sure.
MORGAN: -- Trayvon Martin would probably still be alive.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't think it's true that he doesn't feel responsibility. George was completely sorrowful after this happened. And just because he's calm or because he's not over the top, you know, emotional doesn't mean he doesn't feel terribly about it as we saw in court when he asked Doris Singleton, are you Catholic, yes, because it's in my religion bad no matter what when someone losses his life -- abortion, self defense, what have you.
I would tell those people they are -- again, from my previous answer -- they're not paying attention to facts. You said "pursued" which is a key word which comes from Benjamin Crump. He admitted to following. That came out in court.
The state of Florida never proved that he continued to follow. So any reference to George following Trayvon Martin, catching up to confronting him is simply conjecture to formatted narratives.
MORGAN: But the truth, though, is we don't know.
ZIMMERMAN: No, we do know.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: There are too many unanswered questions. You know what your brother told you.
ZIMMERMAN: No, no, no. In this country, we know when there's a verdict. In your country, we may not know and we may be subject to continual speculation until the end of time.
MORGAN: No, no, I totally respect the judicial system and I respect the verdict of any jury under that. I think that's the only way you can respond to these things. But you know my view about this from the start. About I do respect the jury here.
Let me just ask you this I guess. If the situation was reversed, if you were the brother of Trayvon Martin and or, say, you were the brother of George Zimmerman and he'd been killed by Trayvon Martin and the same situation reversed, Trayvon got out of a vehicle, had a gun, a neighborhood patrolman and had got involved in some altercation, pulled the gun out and had killed your brother dead.
ZIMMERMAN: What the jury found is --
MORGAN: How would -- how would you feel on a human level and an emotional level about that?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, two things obviously. That is tragic. You know, but if Trayvon were my brother and he was legally armed and, you know, able to carry that firearm in a legal way, and my brother blindsided him by breaking his nose and pummeling his head into concrete and continuing to punch him, I would find and the jury has found that unfortunately he had the greater hand in his own demise, which was causing by his own hand his death. That's unfortunate but that's the reality.
MORGAN: Do you really believe that?
ZIMMERMAN: That's what the jury believes. It doesn't matter what I believe.
MORGAN: Do you believe that?
ZIMMERMAN: Absolutely I do believe that. I know --
MORGAN: You believe that Trayvon caused his own death, 17-year-old boy just armed with a bag of Skittles?
ZIMMERMAN: Look, we can be cynical about it until the end of time.
MORGAN: I'll just ask you what your personal view is.
ZIMMERMAN: And I've been very clear what my personal view is, and I think so has the jury. The jury has spoken and they've been very clear.
Self-defense means you were defending your life from a real perceived threat. Whether or not you were injured to the degree that some would have you be injured to in order shoot someone or not, you actually perceived an imminent threat of grave bodily harm or death.
That is what the circumstances were that surrounded George in the moment he fired his pistol. That's the law in this country. The jury's been very clear. They agree with George. It is unfortunate that someone lost their life.
But having said that, you asked me if the role were reversed.
MORGAN: Yes.
ZIMMERMAN: I don't begrudge anyone for trying to get answers as to why their son died. I just -- what I do take issue with is when those answers are not immediately forthcoming, throwing the race card on the table and accusing everyone from George, the Sanford Police Department, the chief of police, Bill Lee, the state attorney's office in the 18th Circuit, everyone in between of being racists or sweeping a murder under the rug for --
MORGAN: Well, Mark O'Mara tonight said that if George Zimmerman had been black, he never would have been charged with any offense.
ZIMMERMAN: Perhaps not because that happens in Chicago every day. You know, there are many people who go out and shoot other people who are black and shoot other people who are black, and they are not charged for whatever reason.
MORGAN: Well, some of them are, obviously.
ZIMMERMAN: Some of them are, there are many more who are not. There are many more unsolved homicides in Chicago than there are in Sanford, Florida.
But, you know, we are where we are as a family and George is where he is as George. We're going to have the right conversation that we need to have going forward. You know, Trayvon is the victim of many things. He's certainly not.
Our system has found he is not the victim of a murder. He is not the victim of a manslaughter. And as much as you want to spin it or talk about Skittles or trash George on your program or any other CNN program, he is an innocent man.
MORGAN: Essentially, it's not about trashing him. It's not about trashing him. It turned out to be a fact after George pulled that trigger and killed Trayvon Martin that Trayvon had been unarmed and just had a bag of Skittles.
ZIMMERMAN: No, he was armed with the sidewalk. He was armed with his nose-breaking fists and he was armed with whatever aggression he brought to that moment. You know bag of Skittles or bag of M&M's or bag of whatever you want.
MORGAN: Let's have a short break. We'll talk more about this.
I want to get what you want to say to Trayvon Martin's family, and also what life will be like for George. He's put on lots of weight -- obviously, been under deep stress. He's got this moment of freedom. How you and the family intend to help him celebrate that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: Mr. Zimmerman, your -- I have signed the judgment that confirms the jury's verdict. Your bond will be released. Your GPS monitor will be cut off when you exit the courtroom over here. And you have no further business. (END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Back now with Robert Zimmerman. His brother George was acquitted sensationally tonight of the murder or manslaughter of Trayvon Martin.
Do you see your brother as innocent after this?
ZIMMERMAN: I do.
MORGAN: Or simply not guilty of murder or manslaughter.
ZIMMERMAN: No, I do. I think that that kind of connotation suggests some kind of accident or some kind of unforeseen circumstance where unfortunately, a death occurred. Like if you got in a fight and punched me and I had a pacemaker and I died.
I think that what is different in this situation is that the self- defense not only the instruction to the jury but the notion and the right that we have in this country to defend ones self speaks right to the face of innocence. It speaks boldly and it makes enunciates innocence very clearly. You have the right to defend yourself when someone is beating you the way that Trayvon beat George or anyone.
MORGAN: Did Trayvon Martin not have the right to the defend himself?
ZIMMERMAN: From what, Piers? Trayvon had the right to go home. You know, unfortunately, I don't want to retry the case here tonight. It's been tried.
MORGAN: Yes, fair enough.
ZIMMERMAN: My brother is innocent. He acted in self-defense and that is what our jury and our criminal justice system has found.
MORGAN: There's a statement from Tracy Martin, Trayvon's father, "God blessed me and Sybrina and Tray. Even in his death, I know my baby would be proud of the fight we along with all you put up for him. God bless. Thanks to everyone who were with us. We together can make sure this doesn't happen again."
Obviously very upset, very emotional. You would expect them to be like that. What is your message to Trayvon's family tonight?
ZIMMERMAN: I should be very careful with that. I've been very clear about my message before. I expressed our condolences as a family last year.
And I think it would be remiss of me not to say I understand tonight -- I understand their pain and there are no winners. They will not win or lose anything more than they already have lost, which is their son's life by any kind of verdict for George.
I applaud them for asking for the verdict to be respected. It's the same thing our family did. I would ask them to reflect quietly as a family which we will do and to pray and I will pray for them.
MORGAN: I mentioned as we came to the break that George has got his freedom. He's been through hell. Put ourselves in the Zimmerman family mind-set for now. It must be a moment of celebration, although not as you said, in a flag-waving celebration, but a moment of great relief for the family.
How do you think you will as a family celebrate? Let's use that phrase. That's what it is for you and your family -- George's acquittal and his freedom.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, I don't think we're really there yet. I think that what was very clear to the Sanford Police Department, to all the men and women of honor who honored their oath, and to the state attorney's office and all their employees who honored their oath and assistant state attorneys, there was no crime committed here because it was self-defense. So, I think we're kind of taken back to that moment and because we have been through this hell, this virtual nonexistence or evaporating from the public eye, except with exchanges like this, we kind of have to get there.
We're not -- we're not just celebrating. And I don't think we'll ever have a day that people might imagine is some kind of celebration. That's the word you're using -- because we're always going to be concerned about our safety and George's safety in terms of vigilantes. You know, there's threats all the time directed at George, directed at myself, directed at my family.
MORGAN: He was handed back his gun as part of the process of being released. Will he keep it?
ZIMMERMAN: I don't have confirmation from him. I don't see any reason why he shouldn't.
MORGAN: Do you think he'd be --
ZIMMERMAN: I think he has more reason now than ever to think that people are trying to kill him because they express they're trying to kill him all the time, every day, on my Twitter feed, on the Internet. Someone was just arrested today in Florida for saying they were going to go on some shooting spree if George Zimmerman got free. There's people outside --
MORGAN: I've seen the threats to you and your family.
ZIMMERMAN: Black Panthers calling for his death right there in front of the courthouse. There's a person wearing a shirt with George's face on it in the crosshairs.
He has reason now more than ever to think that people would, if they could, try to kill him.
MORGAN: He's been demonized. He's been turned into a monster in many ways, in the buildup to this trial. But he has been found not guilty. He is an innocent man. Do you think it's time the demonization stopped in relation to your brother or do you accept perhaps as a family and does George accept that the fact that his actions led to the death of a young teenage boy who turned out to be unarmed, that that in itself means that it can never be an easy ride for him?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I don't think George accepts nor does his family that his actions led to the death nor does the jury nor does the criminal justice system. The action that led to Trayvon Martin's death was deciding to either lay in wait or return to attack George viciously continuously relentlessly, despite George's cries for help, which is a sign that he's giving up and ultimately threaten to kill him and attempt to disarm him.
And that is the final verdict.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: I understand that.
ZIMMERMAN: You asked a question. I'm trying to answer it.
MORGAN: I understand that.
ZIMMERMAN: You said did George's actions lead to Martin's death. No, they in fact did not and continuing to repeat that is irresponsible.
We have a verdict. It's time to respect it not just on CNN's air, but throughout this country.
MORGAN: Right. I respect that.
I suppose what I would say though is that he was responsible for pulling the trigger that shot dead Trayvon Martin. It was a 17-year- old unarmed boy.
ZIMMERMAN: It could have been a 45-year-old, armed to the teeth woman. It doesn't matter.
MORGAN: But it happened to be an unarmed teenager.
ZIMMERMAN: It happened to be an assailant (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Here's my question really. With that, what kind of sense of responsibility do you think George has about that, the fact that he did kill a boy?
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, he has -- I've said that, Piers. I've said that on your show. I've said that on many shows.
George was never the same after that. You know from watching or from hearing reports of the court proceedings that he had moral qualms. He didn't know that Trayvon Martin had died, until he was told. In his religious beliefs, death by any definition is a tragedy. So he has moral things that he's going to have to deal with, and emotional and psychological hurdles he is going to have to overcome. They are not legal hurdles and they are not to be equated with him taking responsibilities that his actions somehow led to Trayvon Martin's death because they did not. And that is the finding of the court. It's time to respect it.
MORGAN: You've been somebody that I've admired hugely as a brother giving support to his brother. Every time I've interviewed you, we've had quite robust exchanges, as we have tonight. You've never reacted badly to that. You've accepted that it's been a very contentious case from the start.
How do you feel on a personal human level to what's happened tonight after all the stress, the strain that's built up over the last year or so?
ZIMMERMAN: I -- how do I feel on a personal level? I think I have learned to kind of insulate myself to have very thick skin to exchanges or to being -- George will speak for himself one day but until he could or until he's able to, I spoke for my family.
And I think I've had to -- as much as I've tried to help my family, make sense out of this, I've had to rely on them to make sense out of all of this for all of their children, our parents, Robert and Gladys.
I think that we need some time to take a step back. I'd like to start engaging the world again in some kind of meaningful sense and I feel terribly for George because I don't think he's going to have that opportunity for a very long time.
I do want to thank the people placed their trust in George, who placed their trust in the Sanford police, who placed their trust in the criminal justice system and who placed their trust in what they were hearing, what they were hearing was the truth.
Even when no one would believe us, even when everyone would stand against us or rebut us with conjecture or rebut us with conjecture or talk about Skittles or whatever, the truth is, the jury has found my brother is an innocent man. He committed no crime. He should have never been charged for this or any other crime whatsoever.
And we have to really take a step back now and kind of rebuild as a family. Our identity won't be the same, and I think that's kind of what you're asking. There's no semblance or there's no illusion that we're going to go back to something. We go onward and forward from this point as a family.
MORGAN: Robert Zimmerman, I do appreciate you coming in for this interview. It's been an easy time for you and your family. I totally understand and I respect that and your brother has today, by a jury in an American court, been found not guilty of murder and manslaughter. That will be a huge relief to you and to your family.
So, thank you very much. ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: Robert Zimmerman.
Back to you, Don.
LEMON: Hey, Piers, are you there? Can you hear me?
MORGAN: Yes, yes.
LEMON: Hey, listen, I know this is your interview. I don't want to step on it, if you'd say no.
I'd like to ask Robert a question, if that's possible. Is that OK?
MORGAN: Yes. Sure, of course.
LEMON: Robert, you know, you said you want to start some sort of dialogue and, you know, much has been made about race in this particular case. And you, your brother, your family, you have a unique opportunity in this country to address that.
What would you like to see happen when it comes to race healing the divide? And do you plan to do anything about that, and will you ask your brother to do anything about that?
ZIMMERMAN: I will ask George first to heal. And I will see to in that my life's work is bringing people together and not driving people apart. I know that for the better part of a year and a half, we've been on the receiving end of a lot of attacks and I think that now that the jury has spoken, like Piers said in an American justice system, we have to grow from this.
I want to know what makes people angry enough to attack someone the way that Trayvon Martin did. I want to note if it is true -- and I don't know if it's true -- that Trayvon Martin was looking to procure firearms, was growing marijuana plants or was making lean or whatever he was doing, I want to know that every minor high schooler that would be reaching out in some way for help, and they may feel it's by procuring firearms or whatever they may be doing, that they have some kind of help.
I think that's he what George was trying to do when he mentored two black children. Even when funding from the county was withdrawn, he and his wife continued to break that cycle of you know, misfortune. These children's father is serving a life sentence in prison. I don't think a lot of people know that about George. I think the only way he saw to break that cycle was through service. And service means personal devotion and personal dedication.
I wonder how many of these people at rallies calling for George's death, calling for his capture, dead or alive -- I wonder how many of them mentored African-American children.
I think that it's a time now going forward, that we should start to the ask really tough questions about why it was so hard for us to conceive the likelihood that you know, perhaps Trayvon Martin really did attack George this way and ask tough questions about, are we not willing to accept that because of race?
Now, we've been the product of a bicultural love story in our life and we've wrapped our arms around every race since we were growing up because the only people around us who were anything like us were black people.
LEMON: Robert, thank you.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Don.
LEMON: I have to go. The computer's going to cut us off. We have to get to a break. I'm so sorry, but I thank you for answering that question.
Piers, thank you for letting me ask that final question. I really appreciate it.
Our coverage is going to continue here in 60 seconds on CNN.
