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Zimmerman Not Guilty; Actor Cory Monteith Found Dead; Interview with Robert Zimmerman, Jr.
Aired July 14, 2013 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the Circuit Court of the 18th Judicial Circuit, in and for Seminole County, Florida, State of Florida versus George Zimmerman, verdict -- we the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty. So say we all, foreperson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.
It is 11:00 in the East. Thank you for joining us this Sunday.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Chris Cuomo.
Welcome to this special edition of CNN NEWSROOM.
From potential life imprisonment to free man, George Zimmerman found not guilty. You just heard it, in the death of Trayvon Martin. Jurors deliberated for 16 1/2 hours before clearing Zimmerman of all wrongdoing, rejecting both the second-degree murder and manslaughter charges.
Zimmerman's reaction to last night's verdict was muted, as you saw, barely showing anything, betraying anything when he heard the words "not guilty." He then shook his attorneys' hands, smiled only after court was adjourned.
Defense attorneys and prosecutors reacted to the verdict during a news conference last night. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DEFENSE ATTORNEY: George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self- defense. I'm glad that the jury saw it that way, and I hope that everyone who thinks, particularly those who doubted George's reasons and doubted his background, now understand that the jury knew everything that they knew was enough for them to find him not guilty.
BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: I am disappointed, as we are, with the verdict. But we accept it. We live in a great country that has a great criminal justice system. It is not perfect, but it's the best in the world. And we respect the jury's verdict.
JOHN GUY, PROSECUTOR: We have from the beginning just prayed for the truth to come out and for peace to be the result. And that continues to be our prayers. And we believe they have been answered.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
BOLDUAN: George Zimmerman's brother Robert is also reacting to the verdict. He told CNN's Piers Morgan the feeling of freedom hasn't yet sunk in yet for his brother but a weight has been lifted, he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER: I really can't put into words how relieved we are as a family. That's the first thing my father said. Having said that, I don't think this is a time for high-fiving.
I acknowledged, we all have acknowledged that Mr. Martin, Trayvon Martin, lost his life. It was not an act of murder. It was not an act of manslaughter. The jury has spoken. Our judicial system has spoken. But that does not diminish the tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Now, that's Robert Zimmerman Jr. He's going to be joining Chris and I in just a few minutes and we're going it talk about -- we've got a lot to talk about. We're going to talk about the trial, the verdict, and of course his brother's future from here on out.
Now, Trayvon Martin's parents, they were not in the courtroom when the verdict was announced, but they shared their thoughts on Twitter. Martin's father, Tracy, tweeted this, "Even though I am brokenhearted, my faith is un-shattered. I will always love my baby Tray."
Now, Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, she tweeted this, "Lord, during my darkest hours I lean on you. You are all that I have. At the end of the day, God is still in control. Thank you all for your prayers," she went on to say, "and support. I will love you forever, Trayvon. In the name of Jesus."
The Martin family lead attorney called the verdict heartbreaking last night. Saying it was intellectually dishonest if race in this case was not acknowledged. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN CRUMP, MARTIN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Trayvon Martin will forever remain in the annals of history next to Medgar Evers and Emmett Till as symbols for the fight for equal justice for all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Benjamin Crump right there continued saying, "It's time for the country to move forward from this tragedy and learn from it."
CUOMO: The verdict has sparked emotional protests across the country. It started outside the courthouse in Sanford, Florida, last night. Take a look and listen to what was there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: Nationwide protest! Nationwide protest!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: People demanding protests. People wept openly. Important for you to see the faces in that crowd -- many of them black but not all of them. White, Asian. A lot of different people came together in their mutual disappointment from this. Not just in Florida but coast to coast.
Listen to this rally in San Francisco last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROTESTERS: Trayvon Martin! Justice for -- Trayvon Martin! Justice for -- Trayvon Martin!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: People shouting "Justice for Trayvon Martin" while marching through the streets. This remained mostly peaceful so far, except for one protest in Oakland, California, where a public transit car was smashed. In Washington, people marched late into the night calling for more to join them.
And in Chicago, protesters carried a giant sign saying "We are Trayvon." They also chanted "Not one more."
Back in Florida a group of young demonstrators had an emotional moment as they sang quietly on the steps of the capitol building in Tallahassee.
Civil rights leaders are reacting with shock and frustration. The Reverend Jesse Jackson gave us his take earlier today. Take a look and a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: I remain stunned at this decision, that the grown man armed murdered the unarmed boy going home because he suspected him. The state's attorney avoided the issue of race. The defense team denied the issue of race.
And yet race profile was obvious from the very beginning. You look on the jury without a black or without a man on it. It sure wasn't a jury of Trayvon's peers. The Department of Justice must intervene and take this case frankly to another level.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: What we're seeing here is legal responsibility and moral culpability coming head to head for civil rights leaders like Reverend Jesse Jackson. Also, the NAACP has called on the Justice Department to file a civil rights lawsuit.
Last night, the department said it is doing its own investigation into this. They're monitoring evidence as it comes out. But it did not respond directly to the NAACP.
This morning, the White House said all questions on that issue will have to go to the Justice Department.
NAACP President Ben Jealous told Candy Crowley today he's been in touch with officials at the Justice Department. Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: They will make a choice about whether or not they will pursue criminal civil rights charges. We are calling on them to do just that because when you look at his comments and when you look at comments made by young black men who lived in that neighborhood about how they felt, especially targeted by him, there is reason to be concerned that race was a factor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now, reason to be concerned versus making a case two very different standards. Important to note, prosecutors had available to them a law on the Florida books that is an aggravating crime for picking someone because of among other things race. They chose not to charge George Zimmerman with that.
So, we're going to talk to Candy Crowley more about that this hour.
BOLDUAN: Now, many leaders called for calm after the Zimmerman verdict last night. And you can imagine in churches across the country ministers, preachers, all of them will be talking about what came out of the Trayvon Martin case.
Alina Machado is at the Allen Chapel AME in Goldsboro, Florida, looking at just this.
So, Alina, what is the reaction you heard so far this morning?
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, people here are upset. They're in shock. They are visibly disappointed.
This church, this Allen Chapel AME Church, is where the first town hall meeting happened right after the shooting. This is where the movement to get George Zimmerman arrested and charged and have him go through this judicial process started.
The pastor of this church, Valerie Houston, she is very emotional. She is very upset. She will be addressing her congregation this morning. She's going to be talking about that verdict and urging people to stay calm.
Now, this community, the Goldsboro community, is a historic community in the African-American community here in Sanford, Florida. We were out here yesterday right after the verdict was read.
And again, people were walking around. They seemed dazed. They seemed shocked. Some of them were very angry.
And the anger in the community was palpable but things were very peaceful. Now, we spoke with an activist, a community activist, who was very involved in this entire process. His name is James Davis.
And here's what he had to say last night about this verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAVIS, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: I don't blame every white person in Seminole County for this.
MACHADO: You seem angry.
DAVIS: Well, I'm not -- the system didn't work for us. It just didn't work. The system was broken initially, and I think the system continues to be broken tonight is what I'm suggesting to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACHADO: And that's what we've been hearing. There's questions about the system, about the process, about the initial stages of this investigation and how that may have played into the final verdict.
Now, the service here is expected to go for a little while longer. We will be talking to the pastor. She is going to announce to her community, to the congregation here, that there will be a rally. There's a rally planned this afternoon in front of the courthouse. It's a rally calling for justice for Trayvon Martin -- Chris, Kate.
BOLDUAN: All right. Alina Machado, thank you so much.
A lot of those conversations happening in churches all over the country today.
CUOMO: And there will be a lot of talk today in places of worship about spiritual and moral responsibility and about what the responsibilities of this community is. And I mean community as the country and how you move forward after something like this. And we'll be following that part.
And there's no question that this is a very emotional verdict for many people of different perspectives. Even the lawyers, who have lived and breathed every moment of this trial, had heated responses to this.
BOLDUAN: And they spoke to the media last night after a long, exhausting day and after three weeks of trial and then 16-plus hours of deliberation by that six-person jury.
And George Howell has been there through it all and he's joining us now.
George, you asked a question of both the state's -- the prosecution and the defense. They're very passionate in their responses last night.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris. Good morning.
Absolutely, because when you think about this, this is a situation, it's a case that really people dug in on either side. It was very emotional. It was very divisive.
And you could even see that playing out with the defense, the prosecution, and with Ben Crump and his team of attorneys.
Let's start first of all with the prosecution. Last night we saw something when prosecutor John Guy walked over to defense attorney Don West to try to shake his hand. West refused to shake his hand. And I did ask Don West about what it was like to work in that courtroom with that judge.
You'll remember, there was a lot of back and forth. You saw some heated moments. Take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
HOWELL: Since testifying in that pretrial hearing about discovery evidence, we understand that he was terminated. Can you talk to us about why he was terminated from your office?
ANGELA COREY, FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: I believe that we have released a letter that details why he was terminated. And again, we want to keep the focus on what we promised 15 months ago, which was to get all of the facts of this case in front of a jury or in front of a judge if it had been a "Stand Your Ground" hearing. And I believe that's what we've done.
HOWELL: As far as the relationship with the judge, the back-and- forth, can you talk to us just a bit about that? Do you feel that you were getting fair treatment?
DON WEST, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'd like to keep my bar license for a couple more years. And the second part of the question?
HOWELL: The second part of the question was what do you tell people this has become -- you know, people have watched around the country and have dug in on either side of this. What do you tell people just given the tension that could follow this verdict?
WEST: You know, that's been such a challenge for me. Obviously, while I've tried a number of cases over the last 33 years or so, a number of them with extremely high stakes, death penalty cases, nothing of course like this with the media attention. Nothing that had the case tried over and over and over again in the media. Nothing where the media was accused of such irresponsibility early on, frankly, being swept along with this narrative that's simply been shown not to be true.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
HOWELL: Chris, Kate, want to back just a little bit, give a little context to the first sound bite, that first thing you heard from prosecutor Angela Corey. I asked her about this IT technician, Ben Kruidbos, who was fired from her office, put on administrative leave on May 28th, fired on the day the jury started deliberating.
I asked her about that because that's the person who hired an attorney who was concerned about legal exposure because he was worried that certain information was not getting over to the defense team in a timely manner. That's why they raised this issue of possible discovery violations. But when I asked her that question, you can see that she dodged the answer.
BOLDUAN: There will be more questions on that. That's for sure. George Howell, great to see you. Great work on all of this. Thanks so much, George.
Now, we're going to give you some other headlines we've been watching while we don't go far away from the George Zimmerman verdict.
Another headline we're following this morning, actor Cory Monteith, star of the TV show "Glee," has been found dead in a Vancouver hotel room. Police say Monteith's body was found by hotel staff yesterday after he missed his check-out time. Now, the cause of the death was not immediately known, but they have ruled out foul play.
An autopsy will be conducted tomorrow, we're told. Monteith, while they're not making a connection between the two, people are noting because of his young age, that Monteith has spent time in rehab earlier this year and had been public about his struggles with drug abuse. He was just 31 years old.
And the Asiana Airlines says it is considering legal action now against a San Francisco TV station as well as the National Transportation Security Board. That's the NTSB that's investigating the cause of the crash.
The airline is upset over KTVU, a local station, using racially offensive names in a report on air about the pilots on board flight 214, which made a crash landing in San Francisco obviously last weekend.
The NTSB says the TV station called looking for information on the pilots and a summer intern working there gave the TV station fake names for the pilots. It was not immediately clear who generated the fake names, but the NTSB said it was not their intern.
CUOMO: Almost too bizarre to believe when that happens.
BOLDUAN: We are not showing those names on our air, that's for sure.
CUOMO: No. That mistake only gets made once.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
CUOMO: We're going to take a break now. When we come back, as we told you, George Zimmerman is a free man. His brother Robert, though, says George will spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder. We're going to talk to Robert Zimmerman just ahead and find out the latest with his brother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLDUAN: Welcome back, everyone. The prosecutors who tried to send George Zimmerman to prison, they had to prove, they had a big burden on them, they had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman did not act in self-defense that night.
CUOMO: And in the end the jury came to a decision unanimously that they did not meet their burden.
BOLDUAN: Right.
CUOMO: Still unclear as they neared a decision what happened as Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin wrestled on the ground that night in February 2012. And without that any decision would be difficult. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, SEMINOLE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: To prove the crime of manslaughter, the state must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt -- one, Trayvon Martin is dead. Two, George Zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmerman cannot be guilty of manslaughter or committing a merely negligent act or if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide.
MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Technically, it could be a debate going on between manslaughter and second degree. It could be a debate going on between manslaughter and an acquittal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the Circuit Court of the 18th Judicial Circuit, in and for Seminole County, Florida, State of Florida versus George Zimmerman, verdict -- we the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Complete shock. Utter shock. I cannot believe he was not found guilty.
(CHANTING)
O'MARA: Obviously, we are ecstatic with the result. George Zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. I'm glad that the jury saw it that way.
WEST: I am gratified by the jury's verdict. As happy as I am for George Zimmerman, I'm thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty. For that we are eternally grateful.
DE LA RIONDA: I am disappointed, as we are, with the verdict. But we accept it. We live in a great country that has a great criminal justice system. It is not perfect, but it's the best in the world. And we respect the jury's verdict.
COREY: To the living, we owe respect. To the dead, we owe the truth. We have been respectful to the living. We have done our best to assure due process to all involved. And we believe that we brought out the truth on behalf of Trayvon Martin.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S BROTHER: I really can't put into words how relieved we are as a family. That's the first thing my father said. Having said that, I don't think this is a time for high-fiving.
I acknowledge, we all have acknowledged that Mr. Martin, Trayvon Martin, lost his life. It was not an act of murder. It was not an act of manslaughter. The jury has spoken. Our judicial system has spoken. But that does not diminish the tragedy. Death is tragic in any circumstance.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
CUOMO: And to pick up on Rob Zimmerman's point, not only has the system spoken but it has given an answer that now creates a lot more questions. And that's why this coverage is so necessary.
People don't understand the decision. Some people don't understand why it ever went to trial. They don't understand how it could have reached not guilty. They have questions about the jury.
So from highlights to going very deep into the analysis to making sense of what happened in the jury room, tune in tonight at 8:00 Eastern for a special "A.C. 360," "Not Guilty: The George Zimmerman Trial."
BOLDUAN: Now, coming up, we're going to talk more about this. As we all know now, George Zimmerman is a free man, and you heard just a moment ago from his brother Robert. Well, he's going to be joining us live to talk more about the trial, the verdict, and George Zimmerman's future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: Mr. Zimmerman, your -- I have signed the judgment that confirms the jury's verdict. Your bond will be released. Your GPS monitor will be cut off when you exit the courtroom over here. And you have no further business with the court.
GEORGE R. ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, your honor.
NELSON: OK, thank you --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And that is how the criminal case ended just late last night. George Zimmerman, a free man this morning.
CUOMO: But his lawyers said whether he decides to stay in Florida or move away and start over, Zimmerman's life will never be the same. Nobody understands that better than his family, especially his brother, Robert Zimmerman, who joins us now.
We know it's been an incredibly long evening for your family. The last thing you wanted to do was leave them. But I know that getting out and getting the message from the family out is also important.
So let's start with the obvious.
When is the last time you had a chance to speak with your brother and get a sense of where his head is now?
R. ZIMMERMAN: We heard from George last night. He is adjusting. That's really the best way I can put it.
I think he's been kind of caged in. He's had these constraints with GPS and having to show up to court every day and having this weighing on him.
Freedom is kind of a new concept to him all over again -- as bizarre as it sounds. He really is free to move about this country and do whatever he pleases for the first time in a long time.
CUOMO: Any idea of plan for him now?
R. ZIMMERMAN: No. I as his brother would like to see him heal, re-center himself, take some time to rest, to relax. The stress has been incredible on him, on our family.
I think it's important that he take some time for himself. He's been through a lot. I can't foresee any plans or any meaningful engagement that he'd have with society for a while because of the threats that are still going around and continue to.
BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about that because you have mentioned previous concern for your brother's safety and your family's safety, and that continues as well. I mean, Mark O'Mara had even told CNN that George doesn't go out without either wearing a disguise or some body armor, something under his clothing.
What are the threats your family has been receiving?
R. ZIMMERMAN: You know, people take to social media. And I know it's just someone behind a computer screen and that might embolden them. But the threats are vile. They're vicious. They're disgusting.
And they are sometimes in person. Like people wearing shirts with my brother's face on it in crosshairs or encouraging others to act out violently against him. I know that you can't take every one of those seriously, but you can't afford to be wrong about a threat either because you could be dead wrong if somebody really were intent on harming you.
BOLDUAN: So what kind of steps are you taking as a family for yourself, as well as George going forward? Because he can't stay in his home all the time.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
BOLDUAN: He is re-entering society.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right. Sure. And that is actually something that's kind of new to him.
You know, going out in armor and disguises but having a curfew and only doing it in one county limits you. So, now, as he engages the world as anyone in his situation would without those restrictions, he's going to have to learn to move about in a very low-profile way and keep to himself. I came up to New York preemptively, expecting a not guilty verdict.
It's -- I guess it's just a sign of how much we trust his attorneys, the representation he had, and how much we trust the system. And that was, you know, another step that we had to take. I don't foresee being able to leave Florida after a verdict like that with my last name.
BOLDUAN: You've had threats against the family, but now there are threats of new charges possibly. We have -- the president of the NAACP was just on with our colleague Candy Crowley talking about how civil rights leaders like himself, Ben Jealous and others, they are pushing for the Justice Department to file, to bring federal civil rights charges against your brother. And even the Florida state's attorney kind of talked about that last night after the verdict.
Let's listen to a little bit of what Angela Corey said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COREY: This case has never been about race, nor has it ever been about the right to bear arms. Not in the sense of proving this as a criminal case. But Trayvon Martin was profiled. There is no doubt that he was profiled to be a criminal. And if race was one of the aspects in George Zimmerman's mind, then we believe that we put out the proof necessary to show that Zimmerman did profile Trayvon Martin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: What Angela Corey says right there is something in the aftermath of the verdict we're hearing a lot. There is a lot -- a very big push now for bringing civil rights charges against your brother.
What do you say to them?
R. ZIMMERMAN: It sounds to me like what she's saying is race was never a factor. I think that's the first thing she said. And she believes or alleges, which has been disproven in the court of law, that George Zimmerman somehow criminally profiled Trayvon Martin.
I think that I would encourage Mr. Jealous, who I describe as a self-professed civil rights leader, I don't think he does anything for civil rights by perpetuating a narrative that has now been proven false and calling for an arrest and then a conviction, and it didn't happen. So now there's more agitation by the same players that were insisting that George was a murderer and a racist to begin with.
BOLDUAN: But the Justice Department is gathering information. I mean, the Justice Department is not directly responding to the NAACP's request, but it has -- it is gathering information and there is an investigation.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right. And we welcomed actually that investigation through the FBI when they originally started investigating George. They've investigated, I think, about 3 dozen of his closest friends and acquaintances. And there is not any inkling of racism.
In fact, there's evidence to show the opposite. So I would encourage them to cool their jets, give everyone some time to kind of process what's going on. Agitation doesn't help us. It doesn't do anybody any good right now.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to the specifics of the night, not to retry the case, but to understand the perspective that you're coming from versus all the people who believe this verdict is very wrong, and that even though it wasn't shown in court, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Does your brother find himself responsible for anything that night?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Yes. I think I disagree what -- court is supposed to precisely show or prove that something happened. And not having that proven proves, in fact, that it does not happen or at least cannot be proven that it took place that way.
CUOMO: To the level of the standard required in court.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right. But you have to remember that part of the evidence are George's statements, that police found to be consistent or -- any inconsistencies are attributed to just simply repeating something, as a human being would.
We're not typewriters. It was nothing concerning. So those --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: To the prosecution it was, though. Right? When they called him a liar it was the basis of their case.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right. That was the basis of their case. It's a weak premise for a prosecutor to go about trying to prove a case just by name-calling somebody.
But we have a verdict. I think we should really take a step back, respect that verdict, respect those six women, an all-women jury who had to make a really tough call and had to look at this outside of all of the emotions that were stirred up and all of the racial innuendo that was stirred up and just kind of look at the facts, and the facts spoke for themselves.
CUOMO: From your brother's perspective, you know where his head is on these things.
Do you believe that he looks at things he did that night and says I wish I hadn't, I regret having a round in the chamber or following him when I was told it wasn't necessary or starting something or continuing something?
What does he regret?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I'll tell you what. I'll tell you that when this happened George wasn't the same. He was profoundly saddened. He was completely a somber person that was just not himself.
Regret is a very strong word. "Regret" implies that your actions, you have culpability in what you did for what happened. And I think that's what you're asking, is does he share or accept the blame.
I think that George, outside of the word "blame," feels and has felt -- and I've expressed this before -- very bad. He even told the police officer, Doris Singleton, he asked her, "Are you Catholic?"
That came out in court -- because in my religion, death by any standard is a tragedy, whether it's abortion or self-defense or what have you.
So he does have emotion about the fact that he had to take a life in self-defense. But that is incompatible with finding culpability with what he did.
CUOMO: Have you ever heard him say "I wish I didn't do it" that night?
R. ZIMMERMAN: No. In fact, I've heard him say the opposite.
BOLDUAN: What do you mean?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Well, he told -- he had that interview with Sean Hannity and that was presented in court as well. And I don't think that people who are forthcoming and forthright in what they do and believe they're doing the right thing should then go back -- that's the way we were always taught as children, if you do the right thing all the time or what you believe to be right, you don't have to go back and make amends for that and say it should have been this way.
If it should have been that way now and you can think of that in hindsight, then it should have been that way then.
BOLDUAN: All right.
CUOMO: We're going to take a quick break here and come back with Robert Zimmerman. A lot to talk about, about his brother's feelings about that night and the reaction to the verdict. Stay with us.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
CUOMO: Welcome back to this special edition of NEWSROOM. We're here with Robert Zimmerman. Let's continue our conversation where we left it off. This is a big point.
You're saying what he did was right that night, it's right today. I'm asking something a little different. Taking someone's life is the last thing you should ever want to do.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
CUOMO: Does your brother feel that way, that he wishes he hadn't taken this 17-year old's life?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's two different questions, really. Taking someone's life is the last thing you should ever want to do. I would agree that that's what came out in court. That's exactly how he felt. He didn't find out until he was at the police station that he had, in fact, taken someone's life. And he was distraught by that thought.
CUOMO: He really didn't know?
R. ZIMMERMAN: No, he really didn't know. He asked Officer Doris Singleton and she revealed to him in an interview, in his first interview with police, that Trayvon Martin had expired, that he had died. And he was dismayed by that.
But when you're saying is that what I should or shouldn't do, self-defense is self-defense. And people who carry guns who discharge them are trained and taught that there's only one reason or one legal way that you should discharge a weapon. You don't discharge them to wound people or you don't discharge them -- you don't brandish them or you don't shoot up in the air to control a crazy party.
That's what happened. He was an armed person who -- Mr. Martin unfortunately isn't here to express any regrets he might have today, but Mr. Martin had plans for George that night. And unfortunately, his plans and his encounter with George began with breaking his nose. I wish it weren't that way. You know, but it is.
BOLDUAN: Will George carry a gun now?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I don't know. I heard from Piers Morgan actually last night that his gun was returned to him, or that at least he's eligible to have it returned to him. I don't know that he'll carry a gun.
I would think that he has more reason to now than before because there are so many more people who want him dead and that know that he's free. But at the same time he can move about a little bit more than he did before.
BOLDUAN: I want to ask you about one of the biggest questions that kind of hung over this trial, these three weeks as we watched it.
Will George Zimmerman take the stand? Mark O'Mara had said that George wanted to take the stand.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
BOLDUAN: But under the advice of counsel he did not take the stand in the end.
What did George want to say?
R. ZIMMERMAN: The truth, the same truth that he told the police from the beginning, the same truth that he told Sean Hannity, the same truth that he told his family.
When this first happened, George reached out to each family member individually to tell them what had happened. It was important to him that the truth came from him to his brother, his mother, his father, his sister, whomever, that it didn't come from some other source.
BOLDUAN: If he didn't think that was being represented or he thinks that he really wanted to have his say in court, why didn't he? The judge, Deborah Nelson, made it very clear that she wanted it to be his decision and no one else's.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right, which is what the law, you know, suggests --
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BOLDUAN: Right.
R. ZIMMERMAN: -- that that is our right as defendants.
I think I would be kind of the same way as George. I think that when you don't have anything to hide you talk. And I think it says a lot about him that night. This wasn't a whodunit. He didn't run away...
BOLDUAN: But he didn't end up taking the stand.
R. ZIMMERMAN: He didn't take the stand in his defense in that proceeding, in that trial. But he did take the stand in a sense because he had so many other statements that he made to police, to Sean Hannity, interviews that he did with cops --
CUOMO: And you know that a big concern, Robert, was that he'd get caught in inconsistencies. And while you said earlier well, they were nothing that really mattered obviously to the jury, that may or may not be true, because one thing in particular, do you know what "stand your ground" is? No.
R. ZIMMERMAN: I think --
CUOMO: And then you have the professor come on and says he got an A in the class that was largely about "stand your ground." That speaks to a desire to conceal knowledge of what mattered most. It speaks to maybe your brother thinking this can go my way.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I think that what I actually said was that the police who were investigating it didn't find any kind of these tiny little minor -- you know, was it the bushes or was it the darkness or was it the bushes in the dark? Who knows? They did not find anything like that.
CUOMO: But you get my question. Why say you don't know what "stand your ground" is?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I think "stand your ground" -- I'm sure if the professor -- captain said that he taught that in that class, he taught many things in that class. My brother got an A because he paid attention to that class.
But I don't know that that term, that term, "stand your ground," is kind of like a catchphrase for that one part of the self-defense statute. So I think the media started using that term because of Florida's "stand your ground" law George Zimmerman will not be arrested or the police are saying --
CUOMO: You either know what it is or you don't. "Stand your ground" is what it -- we all know it to be, especially your brother. And he said he didn't know about it.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
CUOMO: I'm only harping on it because it goes to something that's central to what your brother did that night when he killed Trayvon Martin and he pleaded ignorance of it with Sean Hannity. And it was a lie.
R. ZIMMERMAN: No, it wasn't a lie.
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CUOMO: Why not?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I take exception to that. You don't know that George knows what he was taught in class as the "stand your ground" law. You're just -- you just called my brother a liar without actually having asked him, do you know that 786.012 is called this by the media or by, you know, whatever catchphrase you want to call it or 786.031 is called that.
"Stand your ground" is just the popular term for that part of the statute. But what that statute is actually named is "justifiable use of force," what that part of the statute is actually named, that paragraph.
CUOMO: So you're saying your brother didn't know it by its most commonly referred-to name?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I think you'd have to ask him. I think the way I know it and I understand it is if someone tries to kill you or you perceive that you could be killed or another, you have the right to defend yourself up to and including with a firearm.
CUOMO: You get why it made people curious, though, right?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Of course I do. Yes.
BOLDUAN: One of the other most poignant moments in the trial that if you watched any of our coverage you would also point out is when two mothers testified. You have Trayvon Martin's mother and you have your mother testifying.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
BOLDUAN: Clearly emotional and clearly impacted, of course, it impacted everyone and I'm sure it impacted the jury as well.
What has it been like for your mother to then take the stand and what was it like watching Trayvon Martin's mother take the stand?
R. ZIMMERMAN: I didn't watch Trayvon Martin's mother or my mother when they were on the stand, but I've seen it since then. And I did it because of what's known as the rule of sequestration. We're not -- we were witnesses and we could have been called in court.
BOLDUAN: Have you spoken to your mother? What was that day like?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Of course I've spoken to my mother. Yes, I mean, I spoke to her before. She was very nervous. I spoke to her afterward. She came home and kind of broke down and sighed a sigh of relief that that part of her involvement in the trial was over, foreseeably, unless she was recalled.
It was difficult. I mean, she knows that that's her son's voice. We've all known that that was George's voice.
And kind of like on a side note we were actually kind of strangely encouraged when we learned that these tapes were going to come out and everyone would hear George's voice and this matter would be put to rest.
Instead, the opposite happened. There was kind of like a window of calm where people were saying, oh, good, you know, here we hear the person who is being attacked screaming; the police have said all of his statements are consistent with evidence. He said to the police, I screamed for help and nobody came.
But then it got spun again by Mr. Crump and Ms. Natalie Jackson into to two shots fired, a boy pleading for his life and here's another shot, the kill shot. And people in the media were very complicit with --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: They had witnesses of their own saying that that -- who's --
R. ZIMMERMAN: No, they went out and said that they heard two shots fired. You know, they did that before we got into a trial. They went out and said, Mr. Crump and Ms. Jackson both, you hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a boy pleading for his life and then you hear George execute him or something to that effect.
BOLDUAN: But that did not make it into the courtroom. That didn't -- that was not presented to the jury.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right. That -- what you're saying is that that is not, in fact, truth and courtrooms have a way of filtering what's actually true.
So what they did was they took a false narrative, a narrative based on untruths and the media ran with it and the media puts them on television and doesn't rebut any of their assertions even when they're caught in their fabrications.
BOLDUAN: So are you and your family -- I mean, I sense that you're angry at the media.
R. ZIMMERMAN: I am -- I'm not angry at the media. I think the media has to do a better job when you have people injecting race into things. A red flag has to go up right away, especially after a case like this where two very crafty attorneys got away with fabricating a completely scripted narrative and selling it to the American people through the media, through CNN, through ABC, through NBC.
They did it themselves, you know, to borrow a line from the movie "Argo," if you want to sell a lie, have the media sell it for you. And I guess there's no better example of that than Mr. Crump and Ms. Jackson.
CUOMO: You think it's that far-fetched that on a night where an unarmed 17-year old winds up getting shot and killed, you only have the one main witness, who is the killer, and they have injuries that are somewhat obvious but not necessarily consistent with having someone try to kill you, that that's something that might be investigated, charged and tried?
R. ZIMMERMAN: Well, they didn't have those answers at the time. What they had were questions. And I don't begrudge parents for having questions about how their son ended up dead.
What I take issue with is with attorneys coming in, dropping the race card on the table because they don't have the answers that they want when they want them, and they're not the answers that they wanted. So everyone is a racist. George Zimmerman is a racist, the Sanford police department are racists, the state attorney's office are racists.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement are racists. And in fact, when he reached out, according to him, to this witness that he interviewed on the phone, he didn't want to involve the police because he had lost all faith in the police.
You know, so I do take issue with the media when people are using race to perpetuate falsehoods, simply just running with their story.
CUOMO: Look, we appreciate you being here to give your side of the story. We look forward to see what you or your brother or your family does next in terms of helping people come together.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Right.
CUOMO: After this. It's going to be the most important part.
BOLDUAN: Appreciate it.
R. ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, Chris.
BOLDUAN: It's been a long journey for you and your family.
R. ZIMMERMAN: That's right. Thank you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Robert. Thanks so much for coming in. We really appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right. So we're talking to Robert Zimmerman about his brother. We're going to keep looking at this and figure out legally what could be next for Mr. Zimmerman's brother, George Zimmerman. Stay with us. We'll take that up after the break.
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BOLDUAN: Welcome back and good morning. Thank you for sticking with us. I'm Kate Bolduan.
CUOMO: The people you see flying behind us are our producers. There's a lot going on here during the break.
BOLDUAN: Lot going on.
CUOMO: Especially during a special edition of CNN NEWSROOM. Now we're talking about the George Zimmerman trial, the jury, of course, the focus of all the deliberations -- they're the ones who did it, six people, all women, 161/2 hours over two days before finding George Zimmerman not guilty.
BOLDUAN: Now, none of the jurors have commented on the trial at this point. All of them through the court saying that they wanted to be left alone, but plenty of people are weighing in on why they think the prosecutors failed their case.
To talk more about this, let's bring in some of our best CNN legal analysts, Paul Callan, a former prosecutor; Tanya Miller and criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles as well as Richard Gabriel. He's a jury consultant, very key in this trial with the selection of this jury.
Paul, I want to start with you.
I mean, when the jury was asking about that manslaughter charge -- we talked a little bit about this this morning but wanted to pick it back up again -- a lot of people were thinking that it was a good thing for the prosecution, right? They have got options. They've got the second degree murder charge that he was charged with. But now they've got another option, this manslaughter charge.
But after a while, you kind of thought the jury was looking not (inaudible), but (inaudible) but then manslaughter. And then they came with not guilty.
Where do you think that process was, when they came with the question about manslaughter, everyone thought, they're going that way?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's interesting, you know, and I've seen this happen in cases that I've tried. Sometimes the jury asks a question because a majority of the jurors are trying to convince a holdout juror to change the vote.
My bet is that what happened here was -- all of the jurors, maybe four or five out of the six, were -- wanted to vote for acquittal and one juror was saying, no, I think we should think about manslaughter. Let's have the judge read the charge back.
So they asked that very vague question of the judge, can you tell us again what manslaughter is, then the jury came back and they said, no, we don't need an answer to the question after all. I think the holdout juror probably changed her mind and voted guilty. I think that's probably what happened behind the scenes.
BOLDUAN: Yes. Unfortunately, none of us can be in there, but that's probably a good assessment.
CUOMO: Tanya, you were just listening I hope to what we were talking to Robert Zimmerman about. Very interesting, asking him about his brother and his feelings about that night. Any regrets? He says I don't like that word. It's not the right word. What he did that night was right, so it's still right today. And it is consistent that way. Is that an -- what do you think about that, the notion that there is no sense of, boy, I wish I hadn't done that that night, I wish it all hadn't happened? He does say he was dismayed when he learned that Trayvon Martin was dead. But the idea that there are no regrets.
TANYA MILLER, FORMER DEFENSES ATTORNEY: Well, I think it's just -- it sounds so harsh because so many people have looked at this case and they said, well, if George Zimmerman had just stayed in the car, if he just listened to the advice of the 9-1-1 operator and not followed Trayvon Martin, we wouldn't be in this situation.
And the idea that we can't even accept that responsibility for that, it just -- it seems a little bit disconnected, I think.
BOLDUAN: Now (inaudible) bring you in on this. Another thing we talked with Robert Zimmerman about -- and it's really kind of the look being -- the forward thinking question is the fact that this might not be the end of legal battles for George Zimmerman, the fact that the NAACP and others are asking the Justice Department to file federal civil rights charges against him.
Do you think that they have that case, do you think that that is likely?
MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it's a possibility. I mean, the federal government did step in a few months ago actually and open an investigation into this case. I believe they were looking if to whether or not Sanford police had accurately handled the case from the beginning, whether or not those rights -- Trayvon's rights, rather, had been violated in the sense where the Sanford police somewhat appeared to drop the ball when they didn't arrest Zimmerman right away.
But in terms of criminal charges against George Zimmerman, federal criminal charges, it's possible. You never know whether or not he could be looking at hate crimes. After all, there is a litany of facts here that exist with respect to the fact that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin.
CUOMO: Rich Gabriel, let me bring you in here before we have to go for time.
There is speculation this jury was six people, supposed to be under Florida law, non-capital case, non-death penalty case. It was all women. People are talking about that, differences between men and women and whether they were relevant in the deliberations, your take as a jury expert.
RICHARD GABRIEL, JURY CONSULTANT: As a jury expert, I have to say it's not necessarily the women or the gender of this jury. It has to do with their individual personalities.
In jury selection, three of these jurors had heard about the case, had had opinions about the case and to me that's much more determinative. One talked about that they thought there was an altercation and the gun went off, one talked about rioting in Sanford. Another juror talked about this was a lesson that she taught her children.
So whether those jurors brought those preconceived notions about the case into this, it's hard to say, but it's certainly something that all jurors who are dealing in high profile cases struggle with about separating the evidence that they hear in court versus what they actually have heard beforehand.
BOLDUAN: (Inaudible) a very tough case in front of them. Very passionate case made by the prosecution, as well as the defense and everyone, including the court, applauded their work as they were sequestered for a very long time.
Thank you all. Paul, Midwin, Tanya, Richard, great to see you. Thanks so much for coming in on Sunday. Appreciate it.
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CUOMO: All right. So we now know as we were just discussing with the legal panel the verdict is in. All right. It's now all about the postgame analysis. But also the question of whether or not the case is really over.
Why? The NAACP, they say no. They're calling for federal civil rights charges. We've been discussing them. But you're going to hear from the president of the group make the case for why they may be necessary, next.
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CUOMO: Welcome back to this special edition of NEWSROOM. It wasn't long after the not guilty verdict came in that the head of the NAACP called for more action. They want the Department of Justice to file a civil rights lawsuit.
BOLDUAN: Yes. And he spoke with our own Candy Crowley, the president of the NAACP, Ben Jealous, on our show, "STATE OF THE UNION." I want to play you part of that interview.
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BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT, NAACP: It's important just as we all put our faith in this justice system here in Florida, and in the jury, that we let the justice system run its course.
And the realities in these types of cases where there are very serious questions, we know there will be a state phase, there will be a civil phase almost assuredly, and then there will be a federal civil rights phase and we are putting our faith in that system.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BOLDUAN: All right. So we'll hear much more on that in the days to come, but you can also hear much on that in just a couple minutes. Candy Crowley will have much more on that on (inaudible) special edition of "STATE OF THE UNION" at the top of the hour.
CUOMO: Thank you for being with us for this special edition of CNN NEWSROOM. That's it for us for now. I'm Chris Cuomo.
BOLDUAN: I'm Kate Bolduan. Thank you for joining us, everyone. We'll be right back.
