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Zimmerman Verdict Reaction
Aired July 15, 2013 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's 2013 but in America the issue of race is hitting a fever pitch, mostly because of two words, "not guilty." I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When doesn't anything play into the race narrative?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People feeling like they are treated differently in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the pace for which a black man can walk in America?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I will speak with every voice from every side in a provocative discussion about what a legal case says about our society.
Meantime, George Zimmerman disappears, but for how long and where? Plus, his legal troubles may be far from over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON WEST, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I think the prosecution of George Zimmerman was disgraceful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One word to describe George Zimmerman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murderer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: They're free to speak after a contentious battle. But both legal teams aren't holding back.
And the hunt for answers about a young star's final nights alive.
BALDWIN: Hour two here on CNN. Good to be with you today. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Today, George Zimmerman is a free man, found not guilty of the murder of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. But Zimmerman's battle may not be over here. Thousands of people are signing this petition on the White House Web site calling for a civil rights prosecution of George Zimmerman by the U.S. Department of Justice.
But we heard from Attorney General Eric Holder not too long ago, and he really made no mention of new charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We must not, as we have too often in the past, let this opportunity pass.
I hope that we will approach this necessarily difficult dialogue with the same dignity that those who have lost the most, Trayvon's parents, that they have demonstrated throughout the last year and especially over the past few days. They suffered a pain that no parent should have to endure and one that I as a father cannot begin to conceive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I want to show you these pictures as well, because in the wake of that verdict that came down late Saturday night, look at this, people across the country taking out their anger and frustration on the streets. Some protesters there, look at that, in Sanford, burning the U.S. flag.
The worst of the protests, though, they're actually across the country on the West Coast in Los Angeles. Police there firing off beanbag rounds after some protesters pelted them with rocks and concrete. It's clear this loud cry for justice demanding one thing, federal prosecution of George Zimmerman over the death of Trayvon Martin.
Reverend Al Sharpton says the verdict was "a slap in the face" putting up this on his Instagram account, planning a justice for Trayvon national day of action, calling for vigils in more than 100 cities across the country.
CNN's Shannon Travis is live for us this afternoon in Sanford, Florida.
We know, Shannon, we showed the pictures of the flag burning yesterday. What's it like there in Sanford right now?
SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, you want to talk about protests. Let's talk about prayers here in Sanford, Florida. You got to figure, Brooke, it's been about 17 months that this community has been reeling from the impact of the tragedy and the trial, obviously.
Well, today the community tried to come together and say, it's time to move forward. Across Sanford and across Seminole County, frankly, different churches, church leaders and churchgoers got together, Brooke, and just came together and tried to say, you know what? We accept the verdict as it is. Let's pray together and heal as a community, as a nation, and try to move forward.
Here outside the church where I am at the New Life Word Church here in Sanford, elected officials, the mayor of Sanford, Jeff Triplett, the police chief was here as well as well as members of the community. That was the basic message that they preached today.
BALDWIN: Prayer. Prayer over protest. Shannon Travis, thank you so much.
I know we have seen, we have showed you the public reactions. We have heard from the attorney general now today. Let's get some analysis. I want to bring in RYAN SMITH of "HLN After Dark."
Good to see you, sir.
RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Good to see you.
BALDWIN: What about in terms of the future potential legal ramifications that George Zimmerman could still face? I want you to just first explain for people who don't understand. We have already seen this work through the court of law there in Sanford. When we talk about civil rights violations, this is what the NAACP is calling on from the Department of Justice. What would that even mean?
SMITH: The claim is that George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's civil rights, essentially that he racially profiled Trayvon Martin and, therefore, has to face prosecution, because he shot, killed him.
BALDWIN: Federal prosecution.
SMITH: Yes, based on his race.
The question is where does that go? The federal government, the Department of Justice originally had an investigation going into this matter. They seemed to have more or less suspended it when the case took place in state court and they let that take its course. The question is where does it go from now? And then how do you prove that? Especially in light of this verdict. Also, what kind of evidence do you try to bring in for that?
There was talk about George Zimmerman saying Trayvon Martin looked suspicious, describing his clothing. Do you try to bring that in and other things from his background to try to prove there was racial profiling?
BALDWIN: We heard from Eric Holder, yes, he's concerned. Even the president said, yes, this is a tragedy, but folks calling on for peace. The jury has spoken. Do you think the reason that Eric Holder didn't say anything specifically addressing the charges is just because he didn't want to show his hand or because that's not likely?
SMITH: I think it's a combination of both. I think it is a showing your hand thing. I think they have got to get more information to be able to bring that.
BALDWIN: Aha.
SMITH: You can't just bring a case and see what happens, and nothing happens and then you have a problem. I think it's a little bit of that. I think it's also a little bit of I don't know where we're going to go right now with this, because again, they started it. They stopped it. Now you have his verdict. Where does it go from here?
BALDWIN: Let me throw you another possibility. There are a lot of people that are like, darn it, kid -- I shouldn't say kid. George Zimmerman should be facing something. So many people are very, very angry and enraged. What else can be done? There's the possibility of civil charges filed on behalf of Trayvon Martin's family.
I think it was Mark O'Mara who said, no, no, he would be immune.
SMITH: So, what Mark O'Mara is saying here is that under Florida law, this is I believe what he's saying -- under Florida law if, in fact, you have done what the court, I guess the jury has claimed George Zimmerman did, this idea that he felt threatened, he killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense, and he did so justifiably, so the ruling -- you know, he's found not guilty of the murder of Trayvon Martin.
Essentially, it was justifiable killing. If that is the case he is immune under Florida law from criminal and civil prosecution. It's an immunity thing that works similar to the way stand your ground can. Does that mean they can't file a civil suit? Not necessarily. They can file it. They can try it. They can push it. And then Mark O'Mara and George Zimmerman would go in front of a judge and say, look, here's the clause that addresses this.
It was a justifiable killing. Therefore he should be immune. Maybe that hearing then goes on in front of that judge and then the other side, the plaintiffs, who are trying to get a judgment here.
BALDWIN: And just quickly I want to be clear that just because I'm asking you doesn't imply the family is even contemplating doing this.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Don't know that yet.
BALDWIN: Ryan Smith, thank you very much.
SMITH: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: Appreciate it.
Make sure you tune in tonight on HLN. Vinnie Politan talks with the prosecution team from the Zimmerman trial. Do not miss this. You will hear their reaction to the verdict in a special interview on "HLN After Dark" tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up, there has been a letter. Probably several. But we're going to show you one in particular. A letter written to George Zimmerman that has surfaced telling him, well, now you know what it's like to be a black man in America. My panel will discuss that, plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you run out the door?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no other way to get out the door.
(CROSSTALK)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What if you would have gone around him to go out the door? Your life would have been easier today if you did that.
MARISSA ALEXANDER, FACES 20 YEARS IN PRISON: Yes. But the law states I don't have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: This woman is facing 20 years behind bars for firing shots in the air. The woman who prosecuted her case, Angela Corey. You're going to hear about this case and the sentence, what that says about the Zimmerman outcome, how this is potentially tied. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: In the near year-and-a-half since the shooting death of Trayvon Martin there has been a lot of talk about Florida's stand your ground law.
Yes, it makes it legal to shoot someone under certain circumstances. But, no, it is not a license to kill or even fire a warning shot.
CNN's Gary Tuchman looks at the stand your ground case here that was pursued by the same state attorney who prosecuted George Zimmerman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): She walks down the jail hallway in handcuffs. Marissa Alexander is facing 20 years behind bars, convicted of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
She says she was defending herself, standing her ground, from a husband who had been arrested before on charges of abusing her.
(on camera): He was arrested for doing what to you?
ALEXANDER: He choked me, he pushed me forcefully into the tub. He pushed me so hard into the closet that I hit my head against the wall and I kind of passed out for a second.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Her husband received probation after that incident. Months later, Alexander says she was in the bathroom at their home here in Jacksonville, Florida, when her husband started pounding on the door. She says he was in a jealous rage over text messages on her cell phone.
ALEXANDER: He managed to get the door open, and that's when he strangled me. He put his hands around my neck.
TUCHMAN: Alexander got away from her husband and then made a fateful decision. She could have run out the front door and escaped. Instead, she went into the garage, but says she did not have her car keys and the garage door was stuck. So instead, she grabbed her gun she kept in this garage.
(on camera): What did you think you were going to do with it?
ALEXANDER: I thought that I was going to have to protect myself.
TUCHMAN: Were you thinking you might have to shoot him?
ALEXANDER: Yes, I did, if it came to that. He saw my weapon at my side, and when he saw it, he was even more upset, and that's when he threatened to kill me.
TUCHMAN: But how is he going to kill you if you're the one with the gun?
ALEXANDER: I agree. I thought it was crazy too.
TUCHMAN: But why didn't you run out the door at that point?
ALEXANDER: There was no other way to get out of the door. He was right there threatening to kill me.
TUCHMAN: And what if you would have gone around him to go out the door? Your life would have been easier today if you did that.
ALEXANDER: Yes, but the law states I don't have to.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): The law she is talking about is the controversial stand your ground law. Instead of running, she did what she thought she was allowed to do. She believed she stood her ground and fired the gun into the wall.
Nobody was hurt, but it was enough to scare her husband, Rico Gray, and he left the house with his two young children from a previous relationship. Alexander was safe from her husband, but not from the law. She was arrested, her stand your ground defense rejected and found guilty by a jury.
(on camera): Marissa Alexander's husband, Rico Gray, agreed to do an on-camera interview with us to counter his wife's allegations, but a few hours later he made the decision not to do the interview, claiming that going on camera would put his life in danger.
(voice-over): However, later, he sent us an e-mail saying he would do an interview if he got paid, which CNN does not do. But he has already said quite a bit.
During a deposition with the prosecutor from the office of state attorney Angela Corey and a defense attorney for his wife, Rico Gray acknowledged hitting his wife in the past and said this about the shooting incident. "If my kids weren't there, I knew I probably would have tried to take the gun from her. I probably would've put my hand on her."
Marissa Alexander's attorneys then asked the husband what he meant about putting his hand on her. And Rico Gray responded, "Probably hit her. I got five baby mamas and I put my hands on every last one of them except for one."
ALEXANDER: I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was going to do. That's exactly what he intended to do. And had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here.
TUCHMAN: But later at a court hearing to determine whether Marissa Alexander should get immunity based on the stand your ground law, Rico Gray changed his story, saying he'd lied repeatedly in the deposition to protect his wife, claiming he did not threaten to kill her, and testifying, "I begged and pleaded for my life when she had the gun."
The jury deliberated for 12 minutes before convicting her. The Jacksonville NAACP wrote a letter to the trial judge, saying Marissa Alexander may not have received justice because of her race, gender, or economic status. Some African-American news Web sites are saying much the same thing, that if Marissa had been white, her stand your ground defense would have been accepted and she wouldn't be facing 20 years in prison.
But Alexander will not say if she agrees with that possibility.
ALEXANDER: I'm going to be honest with you. I'm uncomfortable answering that.
TUCHMAN: For now, she sits in the city jail, awaiting her sentencing scheduled for next week.
She had a baby girl with Rico Gray almost two years ago, but she only sees her child in photographs. That's because Rico Gray has custody. He's considered the victim, his wife the criminal.
ALEXANDER: This isn't -- my life I'm fighting for. This is my life -- and it's my life, and it's not entertainment. It is my life.
TUCHMAN: The 20-year sentence is a mandatory 20 years, meaning no chance of parole.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Gary Tuchman now joins me.
Wow. We underscore -- we were watching the piece -- 12-minute jury deliberation. She's sentenced to 20 years.
TUCHMAN: And the same prosecutor in this case as the Zimmerman case.
BALDWIN: Let's talk about that, because people could look at this. On one hand, you see Marissa Alexander and then you look at George Zimmerman. Here she fired these shots in the air. She's locked up for 20 years. Here's a man who shoots and kills a young man and he's acquitted over this past weekend. This is the same judicial system, as you point out, Angela Corey here. How does that happen?
TUCHMAN: What a lot of fine legal minds are saying throughout Florida and the country is that Angela Corey has a tendency to overcharge. Didn't work out well for her in the Zimmerman case. It did work out well for her in the Marissa Alexander case. And then there's a third case.
BALDWIN: What's that?
TUCHMAN: And this is where she implicitly acknowledges she does overcharge. There's a 12-year-old boy named Cristian Fernandez in Florida who is accused of killing his younger brother. Defense attorneys say it was an accident. Angela Corey's office say it was violent.
They charged him as an adult, 12-year-old as an adult. He went to an adult jail. He was in solitary confinement in adult jail. He's only 12 years old. Ultimately, Angela Corey said I never wanted him life in prison. They agreed to a plea bargain. He's now serving in a juvenile facility after pleading guilty until the age of 19.
But she said, after we did the story, her office, we didn't want him to get life in prison, even though that's what he was charged with, the possibility of life in prison. Certainly other attorneys are saying that was an overcharge and she has a tendency to do that.
BALDWIN: Incredible. Gary Tuchman, thank you very much.
TUCHMAN: Thank you, Brooke.
And coming up here, what killed this young 31-year-old star, so talented, from "Glee"? An autopsy set for today as investigators piece together his final night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BALDWIN: Coming up next, join me for a half-hour CNN special on race in America and what the George Zimmerman case says about our society. We will hear from every side, every angle. No topic is off-limits. Should black men act differently when they're on the street? What do parents tell their kids about the verdict? That, so much more. Tweet me @BrookeBCNN.
Do not miss this, race in America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me here on this Monday.
And for the next half-hour, you will hear a provocative discussion on race in America after a huge weekend here. A jury decided that a Hispanic man who shot an unarmed black teenager is not guilty of murder in the second-degree. This case has inspired emotion, perhaps in you, anger, rage, confusion. One side upset over lack of justice, the other confident in America's legal system.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When doesn't anything play into the race narrative?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People feeling like they are treated differently in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the pace for which a black man can walk in America?
BALDWIN (voice-over): Across America, hundreds hit the streets to protest. We break down their complaints.
Plus, a provocative letter surfaces: "Dear George Zimmerman, you will now get an idea what it feels like to be a black man in America."
And how to explain the verdict to young people of all races.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What do I tell him now as a lawyer, as a mother?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Well, with me now, Mo Ivory, attorney and host of radio's "Mo Ivory Show." Also, David Webb will be joining us momentarily, co- founder of the NYC Tea Party. Buck Davis here in studio seven, a diversity and inclusion expert, and Ruben Navarrette, a syndicated columnist for The Washington Post Writers Group.
Ruben, welcome back to you.
Welcome to every single one of you.
And we just want to go there in every which way because this is such an important story that has resonated across this country.
First, let me just read you a letter. I think from what I understand there are many letters similar to this. There's a young man on Facebook by the name of Alex Fraser. He has written this letter. This is what he said.
"Dear George Zimmerman, for the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America.
You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that.
People will cross the street when they see you coming. They will call you hurtful names. It will drive you so insane some days that you'll want to scream at the top of your lungs. But you will have to wake up the next day, put on firm look and push through life.
I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles. Enjoy your 'freedom.'
Sincerely, a black male who could've been Trayvon Martin."
It's a powerful letter. It has been shared more than 75,000 times on Facebook. You're wowing.
(CROSSTALK)
MO IVORY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Wow. I read that letter last night. It was being passed around Facebook. And I saw it. And I read it.
I thought it was really very intense and a very great analogy, although I do feel a little bit differently about why a black man has to go through those struggles in America vs. why George Zimmerman has to go through this struggle now.
BALDWIN: Very different reasons.
IVORY: Very different reasons.
BALDWIN: But you do feel like it's a fair comparison?
IVORY: I think it's a fair comparison in that there are just these things a black man goes through that are about the stares, are about the judgments without having a basis.
Now, for George Zimmerman, he deserves every bit of every judgment that is coming his way. I have no feelings about that. But for the situation for black men, it is a very good analogy, because that is what black men go through in all of the stereotypes that are put on them every day, all of the judgments, all of the sort of blockage that they have in their lives trying to just live in America.
