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Juror Reveals Reasons for Acquittal; Mercury Rising In New York?

Aired July 16, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A CNN exclusive, Juror B37 speaks out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUROR B37, JUROR IN GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: I think George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place. I think both of them could have walked away. It just didn't happen. It's just hard thinking that somebody lost their life and there's nothing else could be done about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: This as pro-Trayvon Martin rallies in Oakland turn violent.

Also, the prosecution's star witness that wasn't.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN LIVE": Don West gave you a very hard time, the defense attorney.

RACHEL JEANTEL, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FRIEND: Don West.

MORGAN: What is your -- what is your view of him?

JEANTEL: What do I have to say? Because I'm a Christian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Plus, captured military cargo and a North Korean captain who attempts suicide. We'll take you to the Korean Peninsula. And --

(BEGI VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not good to be driving and I can't even turn around and face the storm right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Arizona is slammed while the northeast bakes. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Good morning. Thanks so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello. Cloaked in darkness, her identity hidden in silhouette, a juror in the George Zimmerman case talks exclusively to CNN, she reveals the secretive and impassioned conversations that led to that not guilty verdict.

And that acquittal still thunders in American cities nearly three days later. This was the scene earlier this morning in Oakland. Police fired tear gas on protesters who turned rowdy and violent. Also overnight in Los Angeles, one photographer was injured when a protester vented his anger by throwing rocks and breaking windows.

More than a dozen people arrested there. And just hours earlier these demonstrations remain quite peaceful. Some 2,000 people massed outside the CNN Center here in Atlanta, protesting the verdict and calling for federal charges against George Zimmerman.

So why did Zimmerman walk free Saturday night? One juror explains in this exclusive interview with Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN'S "AC 360": Let's talk about how you reached the verdict. When the closing arguments were done, the rebuttal was done. You go into the jury room, what happened?

JUROR B37: Well, the first day we went in, we were trying to get ourselves organized because there's no instructions on what you do, how you do it and when you do it? So we all decided. We nominated a foreman so she could have the voice and kind of run the show. So everybody's not talking over everybody.

If somebody starts talking, somebody else starts talking and then she would say, you know, stop, we have to -- one person at a time, we have to do this. The first day we got all the evidence on the tables and on the walls then we asked for an inventory, because it was just too time-consuming looking for evidence when it was in no order whatsoever.

COOPER: Did you take an initial vote to see where everybody was?

JUROR B37: We did.

COOPER: So where was everybody? How was that first vote?

JUROR B37: We had three not guilty's, one second degree murder and two manslaughters.

COOPER: So half the jury felt he was not guilty, two manslaughters and one second degree?

JUROR B37: Exactly.

COOPER: Can you say where you were on that?

JUROR B37: I was not guilty.

COOPER: So going into it once all the evidence was presented you felt he was not guilty?

JUROR B37: I did. I think the medical examiner could have done a better job presenting Trayvon's -- preserving Trayvon's evidence -- they should have bagged his hands. She should have dried his clothes. They should have done a lot of things they didn't do.

COOPER: Do you feel you know truly what happened?

JUROR B37: I have a rendition of what I believe happened and I think it's probably as close as anybody could come to what happened. Nobody's going to know what exactly happened except for George.

COOPER: So you took that first vote, you saw basically the jury split, half the jurors, including yourself thought not guilty, two people thought manslaughter, one person thought second degree murder had been proven. How do you go about deciding things?

JUROR B37: We started looking at the evidence. We listened to all the tapes, two, three, four, five times.

COOPER: The 911 recordings?

JUROR B37: The 911 recordings and then there's the re-enactment tape. There were some tapes from previous 911 calls that George had made.

COOPER: The re-enactment tape, that's the tape of George Zimmerman walking police through that he says what happened?

JUROR B37: Exactly. We looked through pretty much everything, that's why it took us so long. We're looking through the evidence and then at the end we just -- we got done and then we just started looking at the law. What exactly we could find and how we should vote for this case. And the law became very confusing.

COOPER: Yes. Tell me about that.

JUROR B37: It became very confusing. We had stuff thrown at us. We had the second degree murder charge, the manslaughter charge then we had self-defense, stand your ground. And I think there was one other one. But the manslaughter case we actually had gotten it down to manslaughter because the second degree. It wasn't at second degree any more.

COOPER: So the person who felt it was second degree going into it, you had convinced them, OK, it's manslaughter?

JUROR B37: Through -- going through the law and then we had sent a question to the judge, and it was not a question that they could answer yes or no. So they sent it back saying that if we could narrow it down to a question asking us if -- what exactly -- what about the law and how to handle it, but if they could just have -- I guess, I don't know.

COOPER: You sent a question out to the judge about manslaughter?

JUROR B37: Yes.

COOPER: And about -- JUROR B37: What could be applied to the manslaughter, we were looking at the self-defense. One of the girls said that -- asked if you can put all the leading things into that one moment where he feels it's a matter of life or death to shoot this boy or if it was just at the heat of passion at that moment.

COOPER: So that juror wanted to know whether the things that had brought George Zimmerman to that place, not just in the minute or two before the shot actually went off.

JUROR B37: Exactly.

COOPER: But earlier that day, even a prior crime?

JUROR B37: Not prior crimes, just the situation leading to it, all the steps -- as the ball got rolling.

COOPER: Him spotting Trayvon Martin, whether all of that could play a role in --

JUROR B37: Determining the self-defense or not.

COOPER: Did you feel like you understood the instructions from the judge, because they were very complex? I mean, reading them, they were tough to follow.

JUROR B37: Right. That was our problem. I mean, it was just so confusing with what and what we could apply to what because I mean, there was a couple of them in there that wanted to find him guilty of something. And after hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law and reading did over and over and over again, we decided there's just no way -- no other place to go.

COOPER: Because of the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt either applied?

JUROR B37: Right, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.

COOPER: So even though he got out of the car, followed Trayvon Martin that didn't matter in the deliberations. What mattered was those final seconds, minutes when there was an altercation and whether or not in your mind the most important thing was whether or not George Zimmerman felt his life was in danger?

JUROR B37: That's how we read the law. That's how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty.

COOPER: So that was the belief of the jury, you had to zero in on those final minutes/seconds about the threat that George Zimmerman believed he faced?

JUROR B37: That's exactly what happened. COOPER: So whether it was George Zimmerman getting out of the vehicle, whether he was right to get out of the vehicle, whether he was a wannabe cop, whether he was overeager, none of that in the final analysis mattered. What mattered was those seconds before the shot went off, did George Zimmerman fear for his life?

JUROR B37: Exactly. That's exactly what happened.

COOPER: And you have no -- do you have any doubt that George Zimmerman feared for his life?

JUROR B37: I had no doubt George feared for his life in the situation he was in at the time.

COOPER: How has this been for you? I mean, how was making that decision, when you all realized, OK, the last holdout juror has decided manslaughter. We can't hold George Zimmerman to manslaughter, there's nothing we can hold him to, not guilty. In that jury room, emotionally, what was that like?

JUROR B37: It was emotional to a point, but after we put our vote in and the bailiff had taken our vote that's when everyone started to cry.

COOPER: Tell me about that.

JUROR B37: It was just hard thinking that somebody lost their life and there's nothing else that could be done about it. I mean, it's what happened. It's sad. It's a tragedy this happened, but it happened and I think both were responsible for the situation they had gotten themselves into. I think both of them could have walked away, it just didn't happen.

COOPER: It's still emotional for you?

JUROR B37: It is. It's very emotional.

COOPER: Can you explain the emotion?

JUROR B37: It's just sad that we all had to come together and figure out what is going to happen to this man's life afterwards. You find him not guilty, but you're responsible for that not guilty. And all the people that want him guilty aren't going to have any closure.

COOPER: Do you feel sorry for Trayvon Martin?

JUROR B37: I feel sorry for both of them. I feel sorry for Trayvon, in the situation he was in, and I feel sorry for George because of the situation he got himself in.

COOPER: Did you realize how big this trial had become?

JUROR B37: I had no clue. I had no clue whatsoever.

COOPER: Did it make sense to you that there was this much attention on it? JUROR B37: It didn't to me because I didn't see it as a racial thing. I saw it as a murder case, as a second degree murder case. It was just unbelievable that it had gotten so big and so political -- not really political, I don't want to say that, but so emotional for everybody involved.

And I never would have thought when we went over to the hotel to get all our stuff from the hotel, we got to the hotel and in the parking lot -- it was a regular parking lot, by the time we came out, it looked like Disneyworld. There was media, police, and it really started to sink in, when we went to get our stuff, and then the state police showed up because they were going to be our escort's home?

COOPER: Are you scared now?

JUROR B37: I'm not scared. I don't know how to say it.

COOPER: You clearly don't want people to see your face?

JUROR B37: No. But I don't want anybody else around me to be affected by anyone else. I mean, I'm not really scared, but I want to be cautious, if that makes any sense.

COOPER: It's understandable.

JUROR B37: Yes.

COOPER: But you want people to know. Why did you want to speak?

JUROR B37: I want people to know that we put everything into everything to get this verdict. We didn't just go in there and say we're going to come in here and just do guilty or not guilty. We thought about it for hours and cried over it afterwards. I don't think any of us could ever do anything like that ever again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Let's turn to our panel for some legal perspective on all of this. In Rolando, we have Mark Nejame, a criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst. Here in Atlanta, we have Jason Johnson, an HLN contributor and political science professor at Hiram College, and also Page Pate, a criminal defense attorney and HLN contributor. Welcome back, gentlemen.

Mark, we saw this juror get very emotional about how gut-wrenching this process was, how heartbreaking this case was. How much do you think that these jurors have been through? And given the protests, do you think most of the other jurors will choose to remain anonymous?

MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. I think that very few will come out in light of the true division that exists in our country over this and I think that the jury represented the division when they first went to them you saw basically a 3-3 split, three for acquittal two, for manslaughter, one for second-degree murder. I think that probably reflects pretty closely, if you were to take a poll, the overall consensus within the country. It's pretty much split down the middle. So -- and there are people who feel so passionate on both sides.

But remember, the jurors only made a determination on the evidence presented to them. They don't have the benefit of the TV news and Twitter and Facebook and all the other conversations that we all engage in. They were limited by the rules of evidence. And I think that she agonized. I think, though, that there's really an unfairness on both sides, that people are not understanding the great cultural divide that we -- although we're one country, we have very, very many pockets and a lot of us don't understand each other.

COSTELLO: Well, let's go back to why these jurors decided what they did. And I'll pose this question to you, page. She said they wanted to find George Zimmerman guilty of something, but because of the heat of the moment and Florida's stand your ground law. They just couldn't. So do you think that stand your ground was the deciding factor?

PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it made a huge difference in this case. You know, the prosecution from start to finish was trying to use as much emotion as possible, hopefully to convince the jury to do just that, you know, don't let him walk away. Maybe not murder but perhaps manslaughter. But this man should not be carrying a gun. Do something. Feel sorry for Trayvon Martin, but the law really places a very heavy burden on the state. It requires them to disprove the argument of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. And I just don't think they were able to do that.

COSTELLO: And Jason, you heard her say she felt sorry for both Trayvon Martin and for George Zimmerman. And there was another part of the interview that we didn't air this hour where she said what really struck her was when George Zimmerman went to that woman's house and the woman had been robbed. I think it was a home invasion and he comforted the woman. That really affected her. When Anderson Cooper asked her, would you want George Zimmerman to be your neighborhood watch guy today, she paused a long time and, you know, kind of intimated, yes, I'd be OK with that because I think George Zimmerman, she said, learned a lesson.

JASON JOHNSON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO365": Yes. He learned a lesson that he can shoot a young man that he may or may not have racially profiled because he thought it was the right thing to do. What I thought was fascinating about this interview is honestly how disingenuous it was to me. You can't tell me you that didn't know this was going to be an important case and yet you had a book deal less than 24 hours later. She probably had that in mind before this even happened. I have no doubt that the jury sincerely agonized over this decision.

But every other word that comes out of this juror's mouth says to me that because of her life experience and her background the likelihood that the prosecution would have been able to present a case that was going to get her to understand or empathize with a different point of view is very limited. She said someone died. She hardly mentioned the name Trayvon until Anderson Cooper mentioned it. But she said George throughout the entire interview. It was very clear culturally and personally and emotionally who she connected with regardless of what the evidence was going to be. COSTELLO: Just about the book deal and I've got to get this in. She did initially with her husband want to write a book and she talked to a publisher, but she said she backed out of that deal and she wants to remain anonymous. Just to make things clear. But you are right, Jason she did approach a publisher. Mark, I want to ask you, the makeup of the jury in light of what Jason said, was that the biggest mistake the state made?

NEJAME: There are so many mistakes it would be hard to categorize the biggest mistake. The fact is the state was woefully inadequate of presenting Trayvon Martin as a person. They did not humanize him by just simply claiming Skittles and tea was not enough to show who Trayvon Martin was. The defense, on the other hand, clearly by this juror's response humanized George Zimmerman.

Now, whatever side anybody is on, those are the facts if you look at it unbiased in that trial. People did not walk away understanding Trayvon Martin. You never heard any of his friends take the stand. You never heard -- no friends came on to identify his voice or to talk about what kind of person he was or anything like that. So we walk away.

But for Miss Jeantel, who had -- talked about the phone conversation, you walked away not knowing who Trayvon Martin was. By the state putting in the tapes and showing George Zimmerman driving through the neighborhood and talking on the shows and all, they -- there you were able to see who George Zimmerman was from the defense perspective. So you know, the state was woefully inadequate in making Trayvon Martin the human being that he was.

COSTELLO: OK. We're going to talk a lot more about this case at the bottom of the hour. But I want to thank all of you for now, Mark Nejame, Page Pate, and Jason Johnson. Thanks.

Don't miss "AC 360" tonight. You're going to hear more from Juror b37 including what happened during deliberations. That's tonight on "ac 360."

A blistering heat wave hits the northeast. We'll have a live report for you. Blistering heat wave hits the northeast. We'll have a live report for you from New York, where people are sweating it out. They're also concerned about the electrical grid. We'll tell you about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's 23 minutes past the hour. Time to get a check of our top stories, both Russian media and Wikileaks reporting that NSA leaker Edward Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia Snowden's move comes as Russian President Vladimir Putin says Snowden is, quote, "shifting his position" when it comes to meeting the terms of that asylum. Putin previously said Snowden must stop harming the United States if he wanted to stay in Russia. Late last week Snowden said he would not do that in the future.

Hidden weapons have led to the arrest of a North Korean crew and the seizure of their ship from a port in Panama. The cargo was discovered last night. What appears the missile parts were hidden a cargo of brown sugar. Parts were hidden in the cargo of brown sugar. The import and export of North Korean weapons is banned by the United Nations.

In Arizona the sentencing phase of the Jodi Arias trial resumes today. Back in May, Arias was convicted in the murder of her ex-boyfriend. But that jury could decide if she should get the death penalty. In the weather this morning, it's going to be one hot together to decide her fate.

In the weather this morning it's going to be one hot day in New York City this morning, the city under a heat advisory today and tomorrow with temperatures that could feel like they're well over 100 degrees. And as you can see, New York people, you are not alone in your pain. Let's head out to Times Square and Anna Coren. Good morning.

ANNA COREN, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORREPONDENT: Good morning. I'm going to be honest. It's warm but it's not unbearable. However, it would be a completely different story in the coming hours as the sun creeps out from behind the buildings here in Times Square. As you say, the weather bureau has issued a heat advisory for the northeast of the United States. Certainly here in New York it will reach the mid 90s, although you know, with humidity it will feel like triple digits. So certainly, you know, be careful today. That is the message. We caught up with a couple of people to find out how they are dealing with the heat.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't know in February that it was going to be this hot in July.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing we're going to do now is have an ice cream. Usually we have ice creams around 4:00. Now it's going to be before noon. We're going to enjoy ice cream most of the day. No burgers.

COREN: I think it sums it up beautifully, doesn't it? No one's ever happy. It is summer in New York. What do we expect? It happens every single year, but as you can see, people here in Times Square taking shelter from the heat. It is going to be a completely different story, Carol, once the sun does come out.

But look, common sense must prevail. People need to hydrate, keep out of the sun. And certainly, you know, check on the elderly and the young. If you have an elderly neighbor, perhaps check on them. They of course are the most vulnerable. There are more than 400 cooling centers situated around New York. So if you're doing it tough today perhaps you need to go and cool off.

Anna Coren, thanks so much.

Up next in the NEWSROOM, Asiana Airlines taking action against a TV station for reporting the pilots of the Flight 214 -- actually, they reported the wrong names, and they were not very nice names. They were actually -- well, you could consider them racist names. We'll get a full report next.

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