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Asiana Airlines Suing TV Station; Prosecution's Star Witness Speaks; "He Had the Right to Defend Himself"
Aired July 16, 2013 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello. At 30 minutes past the hour. Let's check our "Top Story".
A little over a week ago Asiana Airlines flight 214 approached its landing at San Francisco too low and too slowly. It crashed, killing three people and seriously injuring others. Now after a bizarre and mind-boggling false TV report about the names of those pilots the airline says it's going to take action. Kyung Lah has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's now an infamous report painful to even watch. In the midst of the crash investigation of Asiana flight 214 San Francisco station KTVU reports the supposed release of the pilot names.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sum Ting Wong. Wi Tu Lo.
LAH: A jaw-dropping and now obvious juvenile prank. The story made all the more amazing when the next day it's learned the fictitious names were actually confirmed by an NTSB intern. The NTSB issued an apology, as did the TV station.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And from all of us here at KTVU we can only offer our sincerest apology in this case.
PHIL YU, ANGRYASIANMAN.COM: I was like, is this for real? Am I really seeing this?
LAH: Phil Yu is a blogger behind Angry Asian Man. He is, as you might guess, angry but also incredulous.
YU: This is completely inappropriate, especially because we're talking about a tragedy. People died. People were seriously injured. I almost was bracing myself for the jokes that would come.
LAH: And they did come and are still coming. From HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" --
BILL MAHER, TALK SHOW HOST: Now that we know the cause of that Asiana Airline's crash was the pilots flying too slowly, I don't want to hear another word about me doing Asian driver jokes. LAH: It speaks to the way Asian-Americans are depicted in American pop culture. Often like this character from "The Hangover" --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that's the point. It's funny.
LAH: -- which may help explain Asiana Airlines' reaction. In a bizarre turn the beleaguered Korean company says the first lawsuit post-crash will be their own, against the TV station that aired the erroneous report. The airline tells CNN "After a legal review the company decided to file a lawsuit against the network because it was their report that resulted in damaging the company's image."
If officially filed, some lawyers say that lawsuit will be hard to prove in court. And the move's provoked a backlash on social media, roundly calling Asiana's move myopic. On Twitter, "Asiana's decision to sue KTVU is indicative of deranged management." and "Funny how Asiana thinks it's this news report that is making them look bad and not the crashed plane."
Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: We'll keep you posted.
Coming up in the NEWSROOM, Trayvon Martin's friend Rachel Jeantel, she was on "Piers Morgan" last night. Hear what she's saying now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERCE MORGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Tell me first of all your reaction to the fact that George Zimmerman was acquitted.
RACHEL JEANTEL, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FRIEND: Disappointment. Upset. Angry. Question. And mad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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COSTELLO: Just moments before Trayvon Martin was shot he was on a cell phone with his friend, Rachel Jeantel. If you followed the trial, you surely remember her. She was expected to be the prosecution's star witness. But many believe she actually helped the defense when she became testy and combative during questioning.
Here's an example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON WEST, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Are you finished? I'm sorry.
RACHEL JEANTEL, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FRIEND: Yes.
WEST: I don't know for sure. I think we should plan on at least a couple of hours.
JEANTEL: What? Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Last night we saw a far different Rachel Jeantel reflective, vulnerable. She could elaborate on things. Here's part of her exclusive interview with CNN's Piers Morgan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANTEL: It's not that I didn't want to be there. It's a lot of stress. I was dealing with a lot of stress for 16 months I think.
MORGAN: And you were grieving a friend.
JEANTEL: I was grieving. You're just shocked. You're just like, wow. You can't believe -- like you can't believe what just happened. You were just on -- a minute on the phone with the person. And he sounded normal. And then a situation happened and then I'm finding out two days later he's dead.
And then I had to be -- by a friend telling me, oh, do you know he died at 7:17 and I had to look at my phone, and my phone say 7:16. And people got the nerve to tell me oh, why I aren't come to that funeral. I didn't put Trayvon at that funeral. I didn't put Trayvon in that casket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Striking difference, right? We want to take a closer look with our guest, Michael Skolnik. He's the editor-in-chief of GlobalGrind.com and a board member of the Trayvon Martin Foundation. He joins us from New York. And in Orlando Mark Nejame, a criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst. Welcome to both of you.
MARK NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thank you.
MICHAEL SKOLNIK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, GLOBALGRIND.COM: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Good morning. Michael, I'd like to start with you because you know the Martins, Trayvon Martin's parents. What do they think of Rachel Jeantel?
SKOLNIK: The family is incredibly proud of Rachel Jeantel, incredibly proud of her courage, incredibly proud that she got on that stand and for two days she took just absolute bombardment of questioning from Don West. And held her ground and stuck to her same story over and over and over again.
You know, after last night's interview with Piers I think that Rachel certainly reminded America that Trayvon Martin is a human being. He's not a symbol and he's certainly not a thug.
COSTELLO: Yes, yes but -- but the juror that Anderson Cooper spoke to said she did not find Rachel Jeantel to be credible, she felt sorry for her. It wasn't effective testimony.
SKOLNIK: Because the juror has never met anyone like Rachel Jeantel. And that's a problem with our country and the race relations we have in our country. And Piers Morgan asking Rachel last night, tell us about the world that you live in.
These are American children. They don't live in a different world. They don't live in a different nation. The fact that we have two different Americas where Rachel Jeantel and a Juror B37 have never met each other is an issue. And we have to address that.
COSTELLO: So Mark is it a problem for our country or was it a problem that the state had?
NEJAME: Oh, I think it's both. I think it was just very articulately stated. We do have a major cultural divide. You know, I -- I'm hurt on a lot of levels. I'm hurt when I hear people attacking Rachel Jeantel because they don't understand the world from which she comes. And I'm hurt when people attack Juror B37 because they don't understand the world from which she comes.
We are one country, but for us to suggest that we are all one and we are -- we all know each other is simply an untrue statement. We have very, very many different pockets of society within our overall society and one does not know the other; that we are simply strangers to each other.
So rather than pointing fingers and blaming and showing more prejudice to each other and -- and we need to identify the fact that we have a lot to learn and although we've come far we have a heck of a long ways still to go.
COSTELLO: So -- so Mark, do Trayvon Martin's parents do you think -- I mean when they -- when they look at the jury makeup and they look at the decision that jury came to, do they say why didn't we have an African-American on the jury? Why did we have six white women?
NEJAME: And that's what we were saying from the beginning. You know, sometimes I've been criticized by some who don't understand that a legal opinion is very different than a personal, a social, or a philosophical opinion. When you look at the composition of Seminole County, it's 11 percent African-American. And when you look at Sanford, it's 30 percent African-American.
So when you subtract Sanford from the overall Seminole County, you have, you know, a very, very small minority, specifically African- American representation within Seminole County. So when in fact you condense that down to a jury, the odds of getting an African-American on the jury are very slim when you're in Seminole County.
COSTELLO: Although if I remember correctly one of the prosecutors struck a black -- a potential black juror from -- from the jury.
SKOLNIK: Yes, he was also -- I was going to say he was also a Fox News watcher. So that was, you know, problematic for the prosecution. NEJAME: Yes, you can't -- I'm sorry. You can't just strike or add people because they're black or white. Obviously, you know, we hope we get to the place in life where we look at more than just somebody's color and we understand that an African-American or a white or a Hispanic or an Asian could have different thoughts and feelings and opinions than -- than everybody else within that particular group -- whites too. I don't know if I mentioned.
But the reality of it is that we -- we have a situation where we say a jury of our peers, but as we become more and more in some ways separated in society between the haves and the have nots are we really anymore getting a jury of our peers?
COSTELLO: And -- and Michael, I want to ask you this last question because I know you were at the CNN Center and you ran into the juror that Anderson Cooper spoke to and you also ran into Rachel Jeantel. So -- so share what you gleaned from them.
SKOLNIK: Well, I'm certainly surprised. And I don't want to criticize her because everyone has the right to put food on their table. But I'm certainly surprised at the timing of Juror B37 to announce she's doing a book and then to go on television and then to not do a book. I think it's a little bit in poor taste in terms of the timing of this.
Rachel Jeantel last night, certainly I had a conversation with her. She's an incredibly beautiful young woman. And this idea that she's uneducated, therefore she cannot be truthful is just an awful comparison. The fact that she doesn't have the educational background some of us may have does not mean that she wasn't truthful on the stand. That woman told the absolute truth of what she knew. And last night we saw certainly a different side of her but the same Rachel Jeantel that was on that stand, which is 100 percent truthful.
COSTELLO: All right. Michael Skolnik, Mark Nejame, thank you so much for sharing your insight. I appreciate it.
SKOLNIK: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Coming up -- you're welcome. Coming up a shot-by-shot testimony -- the squeamish details behind 17 of the 19 people former mob boss James "Whitey" Bulger reportedly killed. We'll have the latest from that trial, next.
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COSTELLO: "George Zimmerman had the right to defend himself." That key statement from a Zimmerman juror helps us understand why the jury found George Zimmerman not guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUROR B37: Because of the "heat of the moment" and the "Stand Your Ground". He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened, that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Now, keep in mind Zimmerman's attorneys never used the Stand Your Ground defense at trial. But if there is a civil case brought against Zimmerman, Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law could play a huge role.
Joining me now are Ken Blackwell and Jeff Johnson. Ken is a former Ohio secretary of state. And he's a member of the National Rifle Association. Jeff is an activist and social commentator and the host of "The Intersection". Welcome to both of you.
JEFF JOHNSON, HOST, "THE INTERSECTION": Thank you.
KEN BLACKWELL, FORMER OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be with you.
COSTELLO: Thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.
Jeff, I want to start with you. The jury -- the juror, you heard her, she says she believed -- well, actually, maybe you didn't hear this part of her interview. But she said she believed Trayvon Martin threw the first punch and it was Zimmerman's voice on that 911 tape and he's got a right to defend himself. As you heard, she specifically mentioned Stand Your Ground. She thinks jurors had no choice but to rule Zimmerman not guilty. Do you agree?
JOHNSON: Well, I think ruling them -- ruling Zimmerman guilty or not guilty based on the facts that were presented by the defense and the prosecution is different than whether I think Stand Your Ground is the kind of law that needs to be in place. I think that the prosecution just didn't do the job they needed to do of painting Trayvon Martin as the victim, what happened that night, so on and so forth.
I think the fact that this juror felt that because of Stand Your Ground George Zimmerman had a right to defend himself is really the problem with this law, and we've seen it not just in Florida but across the country.
COSTELLO: So Ken, is Jeff right?
BLACKWELL: Well, no -- look, I think Jeff is right by saying look, the Trayvon Martin case was a case in and of itself. It has nothing to do with the natural right of folks to protect their personhood, their lives, and their space. Stand Your Ground is a logical extension of the Castle Doctrine, which basically says people have a right to self-defense and protection.
Our streets are ever more violent. Neighborhoods in some parts -- cities of our nation are no man's land. And people have a right to defend themselves.
COSTELLO: Yes, but as a member of the NRA you're a supporter of responsible gun ownership, right? That same juror said Zimmerman was guilty of not using good judgment that February night. So doesn't judgment matter in these types of cases? BLACKWELL: Absolutely. I'm for gun safety. I'm for the exercise of good judgment. And I'm for the right to bear arms and self- protection. I mean there's nothing inconsistent --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Do you believe George Zimmerman was defending himself responsibly that night?
BLACKWELL: Look, I think that when he shot Trayvon he was defending himself. And I think the jury decided that that was the case. Do I think he should have --
JOHNSON: Carol.
BLACKWELL: Excuse me. Do I think that he should have heeded the advice of the police officer who had him on the phone who said stand down? Yes. I think he should have stood down.
COSTELLO: Jeff, go ahead.
JOHNSON: No, no, absolutely. And Ken and I know each other. We have a good relationship. I think, Ken, you know that the NRA has supported with Alec these Stand Your Ground laws in over 30 states. We know that in the state of Florida in 2005 when they passed the law it was unanimous in the Senate and 94-20 in the House, which said that this didn't just squeak by.
BLACKWELL: Right.
JOHNSON: But there's been triple the number of homicides in Florida since the law has been passed. And if you look at the Texas A&M study, in all of the states combined where Stand Your Ground laws have happened, there's been an 8 percent increase in justifiable homicides which translates to 600 homicides a year.
Whether we're talking about suburban America or whether we're talking about urban America, I don't want to see in Chicago, in Cleveland, or the city that's behind you, Cincinnati, us saying to the young men that are already in war zones -- here's another justification for you to shoot somebody.
This deal with reasonable policy that protects law-abiding citizens, that gives them the right to protect themselves, but what we're doing is we are taking a law and allowing people who are racist, people who have isms, people who have issues to use those isms and issues in the process of determining are they actually in danger, and that is the problem with this law.
COSTELLO: And I want Ken to respond to that because George Zimmerman certainly knew about Stand Your Ground. He was carrying a gun that night. And possibly had used -- he used poor judgment. So how, Ken, when you have these laws in place can you stop the next tragedy, can you stop the next situation like Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman?
BLACKWELL: Carol, let me just answer the question by saying there are devastating losses of life on the streets of Chicago. It has nothing --
COSTELLO: Well, let's just talk about what happened in Sanford, Florida.
BLACKWELL: Ma'am -- look, no. You're saying Stand Your Ground laws across the country. I am telling you that perhaps if you didn't have Stand Your Ground laws the homicides would be much more than they are now. The fact is that we need to put criminals who use guns in jail and we need to leave law-abiding citizens alone.
COSTELLO: All right.
BLACKWELL: We have a fundamental right to protect ourselves. I've been a mayor of a major city --
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: That's not the case.
BLACKWELL: -- and I've been an undersecretary of HUD, and I've been through public housing communities all across this country. And I'll tell you right now just as the deacons of defense said that they would protect themselves and their homes during the great civil rights movement, that's what average American citizens are saying. We have a right to protect ourselves.
COSTELLO: Well, in fairness of course, there's the opposite opinion. And Jeff, I'm sure you know it because you talked to people in those housing projects.
BLACKWELL: Absolutely.
COSTELLO: And they don't really like a lot of armed people around.
BLACKWELL: Carol, that --
COSTELLO: All right. We've got to go. I'm sorry, we've got to go.
BLACKWELL: That's just not -- that's not the case.
COSTELLO: Jeff Johnson, Ken Blackwell.
JOHNSON: Just look at the numbers.
COSTELLO: We'll be back after a break.
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COSTELLO: Just moments ago the Reverend Al Sharpton announced a plan for action in support of Trayvon Martin. Using the symbolic backdrop of the U.S. Department of Justice, Sharpton's group the National Action Network is planning a series of "Justice for Trayvon" rallies and prayer vigils to be held Saturday in front of federal buildings across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: We are going to fight. On Saturday night with the verdict we lost the battle, but the war is not over. And we intend to fight. Let me say before we open up that we urge all that participate with us to do so non-violently and peacefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Some 100 cities are expected to host those rallies.
Thanks for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. CNN NEWSROOM continues after a break.
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