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Glee Star Dead from Heroin Overdose; Examining Heroin's Return to Prominence

Aired July 17, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And for the next 30 minutes, we are talking heroin. We will be speaking with two former heroin addicts. We will talk to doctors, police about the drug, the addiction and the recovery.

He played the singing high school football star Finn Hudson in the hit TV show "Glee." But on Saturday, Cory Monteith's voice was silenced. He was found dead in a Vancouver hotel room. Behind the smile, the 31-year-old actor was battling demons, a drug and alcohol addiction he spoke publicly about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORY MONTEITH, ACTOR: For me, it wasn't so much about, you know, the substances, per se. It was more about -- about not fitting in. It was not having -- I hadn't found myself at all. I had no idea who I was. I had no idea where I was going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: According to this autopsy report, his drug of choice most recently was heroin. And, in the end, that was the drug that would end his life.

And when you look back through the '70s and the '80s and the '90s, look at these faces. Heroin took the lives of dozens of actors, rock stars, River Phoenix, John Belushi, Janis Joplin, just to name a few.

But Cory Monteith's death is highlighting once again an alarming new trend. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration is now reporting this sharp rise in heroin usage, a 63 percent increase when you look back from 2005 to 2011.

So, state by state by state, heroin's deadly grip is increasing. And not only that, but a new face of heroin addiction is emerging.

And that's why I wanted to talk about this today because Cory Monteith fits that profile, a male, white, in his 30s.

We have a whole panel to talk about this for the next half hour. Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, first up here, taking a closer look at this deadly substance. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: In the 1970s, heroin was big news. It devastated parts of American cities.

The focus then shifted to cocaine, meth and prescription drugs, but heroin is back in the spotlight. Heroin use jumped 63 percent from 2005 to 2011.

DR. HERBERT KLEBER, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: What we've seen in the last decade has been, in a sense, a perfect storm. The potency of heroin has gotten higher. The price has gotten lower.

COHEN: And it's easier to use. You don't have to shoot it up anymore. You can snort it.

SEAN CLARKIN, THE PARTNERSHIP AT DRUGFREE.ORG: I think parents can't afford to be complacent or to make that assumption that my kid would never get involved in heroin.

COHEN: Back in the 1970s, heroin was generally thought of as the kind of drug people used in street alleys. But not anymore.

CLARKIN: That notion that it's concentrated in the inner city among the down and out is less and less the case.

COHEN: As we've seen, heroin has an appeal beyond street corners, contributing to the death of beloved television star Cory Monteith.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this. We have Bob Forrest, VH1 "Celebrity Rehab" and "Sober House" and founder of Bob Forrest Counseling Services joining me, also Gary Langis, recovering heroin addict, drug- use researcher currently.

Sitting alongside him, Kim Hanton, director of Addiction Services for the North Suffolk Mental Health Association.

Before we go to you, Elizabeth Cohen sitting next to me in Studio Seven, we just heard from you.

Those who know zero, just what we see in TV and on the movies, the needles on the street, heroin is an opiate. What does that mean?

COHEN: It means it depresses your central nervous system, so you get a high from it, but when you take too much of it, your brain forgets to breathe.

I know that sounds crazy because we don't think about it. Our brain tells us to breathe all the time.

It actually shuts down that part of your brain and you just forget. And that's why heroin is so incredibly dangerous.

BALDWIN: OK. Bob, I want to go to you. Elizabeth, I'm going to bring you in and out through this whole conversation.

I know people know you and know your face from "Celebrity Rehab," but you did heroin. How much of it did you do?

BOB FORREST, VH1's "CELBRITY REHAB" AND "SOBER HOUSE": On a daily basis for over a decade. I was a hardcore user of heroin.

And I thought it had gone away. I really did. I'm naive. I'm always optimistic about addict trends.

I thought as soon as we can get a handle on these young people abusing prescription drugs we can really make forward progress. But we can't.

I think why you're seeing this increase in heroin is because we've done a good job at clamping down on the pill mills in certain parts of the United States.

And we've all become very aware of prescription drug addiction and prescription drug access for young people. Now they're turning to the streets. That's what I believe.

BALDWIN: Gary, you're helping folks in communities right now. You've been clean for 10 or so years.

You hear about drugs. People take them. You're addicted after the first time. Is that what heroin does to you?

GARY LANGIS, RECOVERING HEROIN ADDICT: Not really. You can use it until you build up a tolerance to it. Then you become addicted.

With the pills which were just talked about, we are doing a great job with the pills, like passing new regulations, closing the pill mills.

But what that does, that leads folks to a cheaper product, a more accessible product, which is the heroin. And it's really pretty easy to find, any street in America.

But, again, it happens like if you take a pill which is a purer form of an opioid you'll build up a tolerance a lot faster probably than most of the heroin that's on the street right now.

But you can become addicted in just a few times.

BALDWIN: I know I've been --

LANGIS: You get withdrawals.

BALDWIN: I've been getting tweets and people are saying this is old news. Just because of Cory Monteith's death that people are talking about it.

Kim, I was having a conversation with your colleague in Boston over the weekend. She was saying to me, it made me just stop and pause and think about it for a minute, so many more -- it seems like there is this uptick in young people.

You counsel folks in the Boston area. How young are we talking?

KIM HANTON, DIRECTOR, ADDICTION SERVICES, NORTH SUFFOLK MENTAL HEALTH ASSOCIATION: Well, it can start at age 13. Right now in the Boston area, we definitely are seeing an up-rise.

You know, the 18 to 25-year-olds at this point seems to be the most predominant demographic that we're dealing with. But they can start -- we definitely have kids using heroin at 13.

Kids are comfortable with pharmaceuticals. They cannot keep up with the financial burden.

The other piece fatal is combing the other pills such as the benzodiazepines and the alcohol. The combination, that's where the lethalness comes in as well (inaudible) decrease in the respiration.

BALDWIN: That is, according to this autopsy, it was this toxic mix of both alcohol and heroin that ultimately claimed the life of Cory Monteith.

HANTON: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: He was 13 when he started abusing.

HANTON: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Quickly, Elizabeth, were you going to jump in?

HANTON: And he just came out of detox.

COHEN: Yeah, I want to talk about the appeal to young people.

When you can only shoot up heroin, I think young people are like, who wants to put a needle in your arm?

Now that you can snort it or smoke it, it doesn't have that stigma.

BALDWIN: Bob Forrest, cocaine usage, that's also sort of old news. That's something you snort.

When you think of snorting heroin is it more toxic? Does the body absorb it differently? Is that what's making this increasingly deadly for young folks who don't have the tolerance?

FORREST: I think, speaking to what Gary was saying, I don't think these young people know how to use drugs safely.

BALDWIN: Can you use drugs safely? Hang on. Can you use ...

FORREST: Well, to use -- to know not to combine certain deadly combinations, all addicts knew for decades. This generation does not know that.

I'll tell you a story. There was an old blues musician in Los Angeles. I was stumbling around, O.D.ing, somewhat like what some of these kids are, going unconscious. And he really told me you cannot take this drug with that drug. And I understood that.

And these kids are not getting this education about drugs because we're becoming more and more of a backwards society in talking openly about these problems. We have serious problems in this country from drug addiction.

BALDWIN: That is why I wanted to talk about this today.

But here's my question. Kim, to you in Boston. Just, for example, using your area, your neck of the woods as an example, you're saying you're seeing folks as young as 13.

Are you seeing more black, white, Hispanic, young, older, you know, different socioeconomic backgrounds?

HANTON: It knows no boundaries. It definitely has no boundaries. We're definitely seeing an increase more in the female population. It was historically more of a male predominant ...

BALDWIN: Really?

HANTON: Yes, absolutely. What we're seeing now is a total surge in, you know, an increased use among the youth and it really doesn't have any boundaries.

BALDWIN: How do we stop this?

HANTON: We really do have to get this message -- we got to keep talking. This is how we're doing this, Brooke. We're talking. We've got to keep on talking because it is a disease of the brain.

You know, we really do -- it doesn't have a cure. We have to treat it. It's a lifelong treatment experience. You have to change everything in your life.

I just think we have to keep talking about this. We have to continue to de-stigmatize, de-stigmatize for the parents, de-stigmatize for the colleagues. We have to get out there and send the message.

BALDWIN: What is the message? What is the message to people?

Gary, from you, since you somehow found the strength to kick it a decade ago. How did you find the strength? Also, what's your message for parents, you know, folks who know folks?

LANGIS: My message is you want to know how do we stop this? First, we have to engage an unengaged population of folks.

If you start to use heroin, all of the sudden the family notices. They're not interacting with the family as much. They're not going to their favorite sporting events. They're using heroin.

Who engages these folks? Not usually too many folks. Because they will, like, stigmatize them like Kim was saying. You become a junky now. You're not looked at the same way as your peers.

So, like, that's what we try to do now. We try to engage the populations, and we'll give them tools. The word "safe?" It's "safer," so the safer ways you can use substances. There's things you can do. There's tools you can have.

In Massachusetts, we have a naloxone program, and we train drug-using -- folks that are using heroin, their family members and witnesses to that, how to use naloxone which reverses a heroin overdose and it gives them enough time to get to the E.R.

HANTON: But we also need to look at not having people discharged from rehab and be alone.

LANGIS: Exactly.

HANTON: Because if they're alone, that's another danger. And that's a strong message that has to be heard. People need people.

BALDWIN: And as your colleague, my friend told me, you know, once you're out of rehab, your tolerance is down. You use again and that could be it.

LANGIS: That's right.

BALDWIN: I have to leave it here for you.

Coming up next, Cory Monteith in his own words, you'll hear how the actor described his addiction.

We'll talk to the man who asked Monteith about his very own demons, George Strombolopolous live in Toronto.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Cory Monteith was 31, 31-years-old and a heroin user. It's hard to swallow, I know, because this young man, a heroin user? Clean shaven, soft spoken, flat-out adorable, Cory Monteith.

Here he is on the set of "Glee," the series that launched him into stardom. Juxtapose that with the scene of his death, Vancouver, British Columbia, some of his many, many fans including lots of young girls stopping by mourning a life cut short by drugs.

George Stroumboulopoulos is with me now from Toronto, host of CNN's "Stroumboulopoulos Tonight." Good to see you. I hate that we're talking under the situation that we are, but I have to ask about this interview.

You talked to Cory. It wasn't the first time, but you talked to him in 2011. It was a time when he seemed to have turned his life around. Let me play part of your interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STROUMBOULOPOULOS, HOST, "STROUMBOULOPOULOS TONIGHT": You're so unique in this position that fame often leads to the disintegration of a person, but it seems like in your case it's having the opposite effect.

CORY MONTEITH, ACTOR: I try and do the next right thing. You know, I just try and do the next right thing. That's all I can say.

When you have this whole fame thing, it seems like so many opportunities. I see so many opportunities. There are many opportunities to do the next wrong thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It is so incredibly tragic. When you think about it, you know, Monteith, he began drinking and began using drugs.

As he talked to you, he started around age 13 which is the age of a lot of his fans today. What can you tell me about his teen years and how this whole addiction developed?

STROUMBOULOPOULOS: You know, about him, he was one of the loveliest ones you're going to meet, right? I know it's tragic when you lose anybody. He was kind of the good one.

And Cory did seem to have turned things around. I don't know a lot of the details near the end of what happened to him or what precipitated, you know, those final few hours for him, but it's just sometimes the stuff just kind of comes out of nowhere.

He seemed to be making the right choices in most parts of his life. He was very self-aware. He was aware of the step-by-step process with which he could get better.

And this is the tragedy of addiction. This is the complicated part of addiction is that everybody has their own relationship with it. And how you get through it is kind of -- sometimes it's not really up to you.

It's a real tragedy. He was a really lovely man.

BALDWIN: He seemed lovely. You could tell he seemed very self-aware.

I watched the whole clip when you were sitting down and talking to him. He seemed also pretty confident when he was talking about his sobriety.

I'm wondering when the cameras weren't rolling or any moment in between did you pick up anything different?

STROUMBOULOPOULOS: No. You know, what I learned from him is that what made him special, actually, was that he was very brave, and not brave in the braggadocio way, brave with his vulnerability.

He realized that he had lots of issues that he had to deal with, and he was making active choices to deal with them. You know, the way -- in our conversation that we had, he talked about his father and dealing with that with his upbringing, dealing with things like addiction and the idea of making the next right choice.

But that's the thing, right? With addiction, you can be going down the right road for so long, and it's a bad hour, and look out, right? That bad hour could be the difference maker in somebody's life.

I actually didn't pick up a single thing that said he was in trouble, not a single thing, because I don't think at that time, the last time I saw him, it had been a minute since I'd seen him, he was in that right place.

And I think it was confidence in recognizing that he had vulnerabilities that he was he working towards. So he didn't think he had nailed life. He thought he was working towards it. And that brings a certain confidence to a guy.

I just was really impressed with how brave he was in sharing that stuff on the air. As you know, Brooke, celebrity for the sake of celebrity is not interesting.

But in those conversations when he was willing to engage, he was actually actively helping other people make better choices in their life, people who could watch and relate to some of his stuff.

Because our culture does not really appreciate mental health issues and doesn't deal with addiction with the most empathy. We don't as a culture. And when you have strong, successful people talking about it, that's how you can help end the stigma and help people get help.

BALDWIN: And I heard he was helping. He was helping folks. Richard Branson was working with him, I know, on a group helping folks on the street, helping young people.

He seemed to have such a giving way about him, and the whole thing is sad every way you cut it.

George Stroumboulopoulos, thank you for hopping on television after what I think was your vacation, so thank you very much. I appreciate it.

And we'll be watching for you Friday night here on CNN, your big guest Friday, former CNNer, Larry King. Stroumbo, thank you very much.

Coming up next, wait until you hear actually where heroin is being found these days, how it gets here, how it's cheap, and how police are trying to crack down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We are talking this half hour about the death of 31-year-old Cory Monteith, and the growing use of heroin.

There are several reasons for the drugs recent resurgence, and one of those reasons is higher potency which allows users to get around having to shoot up.

Let me quote a government study for you. Quote, "Since smoking or sniffing is less invasive than injecting heroin, it may be perceived as less risky. This may be a reason for the increase in new users of heroin, especially among the young."

Joining me now from Los Angeles, Sam Quinones of the "L.A. Times." He's done some detailed reporting on the current state of heroin use and distribution, so, Sam, welcome to you.

SAM QUINONES, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Thank you.

BALDWIN: I read your piece from 2010. And so your lead line -- you write about the business of black tar heroin.

To quote your lead line, you say, "Immigrants from an obscure corner of Mexico are changing heroin use in many parts of America." How?

QUINONES: Well, there's one town in particular in the small state of Nayarit, which is along the Pacific coast, where guys in this town have learned how to market heroin as if it were pizza.

They basically have a dispatch system. Very much like you would order pizza over the phone, you call up. They have an operator standing by, basically. They have drivers circulating out in the town wherever -- where you are, and these guys then will deliver you your dope. These fellows have used this system and a lot of very aggressive marketing techniques to spread black tar heroin farther than its ever gone before.

For a long time, black tar heroin was really a West Coast thing. It was really from Seattle and Portland down to L.A., Arizona, maybe Texas, right near Mexico.

But these guys have brought it east of the Mississippi River.

BALDWIN: To smaller towns.

QUINONES: A couple of places -- excuse me?

BALDWIN: To smaller towns?

QUINONES: They've brought it to towns that really never had a heroin problem to speak of, or a very small one.

For example, Columbus, Ohio, is awash. That was a major hub for these guys.

The name of this town is Jalisco, it's in the state of Nayarit, and these guys are know -- I've taken to calling them, after a police officers-coined term, as the Jalisco Boys, and they are in -- the Jalisco Boys are in Columbus, and Charlotte, Nashville, Indianapolis, parts of South Carolina.

And when they're in these towns, they're not just in the towns. Really, they only sell to white people. I think that's really their focus, and they're selling to really the suburbs, so they're selling in Columbus, but people from the suburbs are coming in to buy from them.

BALDWIN: As you described, it's the smaller network, entrepreneurial spirit, if you will, from Mexico, not these big mega-drug cartels that are infiltrating these parts of the country.

QUINONES: Right.

BALDWIN: Sam Quinones, I have to leave it there, but you mentioned police -- Sam, thank you, "L.A. Times."

You mentioned police. Coming up next, we're going to take you inside the crime scenes in the crackdown on heroin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. We're talking this last half hour about heroin's deadly comeback.

HLN law enforcement analyst, worked police officer, what, 20 years?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Twenty-six.

BALDWIN: Twenty-six years (inaudible), D.C. BROOKS: In the nation's capital.

BALDWIN: Just telling a story in the commercial break about finding a guy shooting up driving around and around DuPont Circle.

What is it like, if you're a cop and you come upon somebody who's high as a kite on heroin?

BROOKS: You know, a lot of times we would find people in alleys. And this particular guy, who would overdose on heroin.

And you come up, most of the time, just like Elizabeth Cohen said, you stop breathing. And that's what happens. They stop breathing.

There's an antidote that you shoot them up with, Narcan. You'd use one amp. Sometimes that wouldn't work. Another amp, you shoot them up.

And all of a sudden they would come out it, and they would be ticked off with a real bad headache because you just screwed up their high.

BALDWIN: You were saying, people in the '70s and the '80s, police were so worried about crack and cocaine, the heroin users and abusers were saying, great, you're not cracking down on me.

Now the times are changing.

BROOKS: Right. And I started to see things change toward the late '90s.

We started to see a resurgence of heroin, again, Brooke, because all of the drug efforts were against cocaine, crack cocaine in the cities.

But I'll tell you, there's no -- when it comes to socioeconomic, no, what the guy I was telling you about who overdosed in his car on DuPont Circle, downtown D.C., evening rush hour, was an attorney with a high-powered law firm in downtown D.C>

BALDWIN: Sees no limits, this drug, that's what one of the drug counselors was saying.

Mike Brooks, thank you very much. I wished we had more time.

Thank you for watching this last half hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

"THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.