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Bodies Of Three Women Found East Cleveland; Verdict Dominates Talk Shows; Phil Mickelson Wins British Open; Two Views of the Zimmerman Trial

Aired July 21, 2013 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for joining us. Here's what's coming up this hour from the CNN NEWSROOM. Police in Ohio have discovered the bodies of three women they believe may be victims of a serial killer. We'll tell you why.

We're continuing the conversation on race relations that has been taking place this week in the streets, in the White House and now on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We have made significant progress but I think that recent events have obviously highlighted the differences that remain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What's the status of race relations in our country and what needs to be done to move the conversation forward?

Plus --

Talk about a close call, we will show you how this all plays out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We are going to begin in East Cleveland, Ohio, where police made a disturbing discovery.

The bodies of three young women found wrapped in layers of plastic. So badly decomposed, the police are unable to identify them and now the mayor says there may be more victims.

CNN's Anna Coren is live in the East Cleveland neighborhood where the bodies were found,

Anna, police have a man in custody they believe is connected to the gruesome case. What do we know about him?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have a man in custody, Don. That's exactly right, 35-year-old Michael Madison. He is an African- American, a father of two and well-known in this community, so he's currently helping police. He is the number one suspect. But as you say, a gruesome discovery in this neighborhood, three bodies, one of them actually found in the basement in the home directly behind me and then a garage visually 20 yards away. Another in a vacant lot I should say close by. So, all of these bodies wrapped in plastic garbage bags, I believe, and taped up. These women were in the fetal position.

As we say, Michael Madison, he is in custody and the mayor of East Cleveland really believes that there could be more bodies. The reason he says that is firstly, Michael Madison has alluded to that. Secondly, he says that he was inspired by a serial killer by the name of Anthony Sowell. This is a man who killed 11 women here in Cleveland and was convicted of it in 2011 and now currently on death row. Let's have a listen to what the mayor had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR GARY NORTON, EAST CLEVELAND, OHIO: This is a sick individual who appears to have been influenced by another sick individual. It is absolutely horrible. It is atrocious. And again, we believe that this individual that we are dealing with killed three women in a span of about ten days. That is insane. And we know that if he had been out for one more hour there's no telling what would have happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Quite a frightening segment there from East Cleveland mayor, Gary Norton. But I can tell you that a search is under way. Not far from where we are standing. And the neighborhood, people have been coming out and helping going through vacant homes to see whether they can find any other remains that may still be there. So that is the situation at the moment, Don.

LEMON: Unbelievable.

OK. We will check back with Anna Coren. Thank you very much in Cleveland.

To Mississippi now, where questions remain after a mysterious murder four months ago. Marco McMillian was a rising star in a political world, the young, black, gay mayoral candidate was said to be charismatic and dreamed about putting the town on the map. Before his campaign could take off, he was dead. McMillian's burned body was found dumped near Mississippi River delta in February. Lawrence Reed, the key suspect, who is also black, is behind bars at the local jail awaiting a hearing next month. But in this month's -- in the months since the killing, the sheriff has said very little about the case adding to the suspicion there may be more to the story.

McMillan's family attorney Daryl Parks joins me from Houston, Texas, now. CNN reached out to the sheriff's department with an open records request and so far has no response. They also have not responded to an interview request.

And what makes you believe, we are wondering, the Marco McMillian's death is more than just a random killing. Why? What makes you believe that? DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY (via phone): Well, without question, Don, the mere fact that the sheriff refuses to talk on the issue draws serious concern.

LEMON: Just because he refuses to talk on the issue. I mean, why does that give you -- you don't think they're just having an investigation and they don't want to give up their information? You think they are hiding something?

PARKS: Well, the mere fact that Mr. Reed has no court date, they have given no information to the family and not contacted from the sheriff or the D.A.

LEMON: So what are you saying by that?

PARKS: Well, you know, I'm getting feedback here but I'll say this. They could have been a more in any situation where you have the victims. They have a right to get information. To date, the sheriff or the D.A. has not contacted the family.

LEMON: OK. Let's move on. I want to ask you about the text messages. There were text messages from McMillian to friends and the comments of his mother about how he feared for his life and coroner even refuses to sign the autopsy, the first time in he done that in 24 years. How does all these factor into the case?

PARKS: It draws great suspicion around the case and causes anyone to wonder what is going on with Clarksdale, Mississippi. So, think of the text message, I think the department of justice is probably going to be looking into it. And in relation to the autopsy, that the autopsy itself shows serious issues with the autopsy, especially the thermal injuries to his body. And so, they have many lingering questions in the situation to be answered.

LEMON: What do you know about this suspect who's in custody now? Do you know anything about the suspect?

PARKS: Very little about him. So they're really unable to say much about him. But, you know, when you think about this case, Marco white young person as you see in the text messages, she was very suspicious of the people locally and some of the conversation that he was getting both the text message and the conversation. And he let some people know about that.

Now, that aspect of this investigation we have contacted Washington department of justice and the U.S. attorney for the district of Mississippi concerning that issue.

LEMON: The McMillian family is asking for federal investigation, so what's next?

PARKS: Well, what's next is I think that we have to keep pushing. You know, this situation is, as you know, the sheriff is black. Marco is black. How somebody -- the establishment in the local area is not black. And so, you know, one of the issues you have heard come up in the course of many of the issues talking about in this past week with black on black crime, this needs to be part of this but it's a political overtone to it and our firm came in and worked with the national black justice coalition with the gay and lesbian issues in our country and worked with them there in northern Mississippi.

For whatever reason, it is kind of different that this sheriff who refuses to give information about the status of the case, I sent an e- mail actually to the sheriff asking where they were. They referred me to the D.A. I asked the contact person in the D.A. I didn't get a contact person.

It is very absurd in the Memphis society to get a defendant that doesn't have a court date at all. It's very absurd in the society when you don't have someone from the victim's advocate contact a person's family after they've been murdered.

LEMON: Yes.

PARKS: And I actually myself checked in to other parts of Mississippi if in the normal course of business whether or not they normally have victims advocate. And they do in other parts of Mississippi. So, that's what makes the situation very, very odd.

LEMON: Well, Mr. Parks, we are going to be checking back in with you to see what happens and see if the McMillian family gets justice and if this is indeed solved.

We appreciate you coming on CNN. If you get an update, please, let us know, OK? Daryl Parks.

OK, moving on now. It is Rosy Esparza's first trip to Six Flags over Texas and did ended tragically when she fell from a Texas giant roller coaster car with her son sitting behind her. Witnesses describe what they saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARMEN BROWN, WITNESS: She goes up like this. And then when it drops to come down, that's when it released and she just tumbled. It didn't hit me until we got back down to the bottom and I said, like, she was no bigger than I was. Like that could have been me and then I like -- I lost it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were screaming when they came back and trying to get out of the restraint and screaming, my mom, my mom, you got to get my mom. She's gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very sad. I'm -- I feel horrible for the family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Here's what witnesses telling "the Dallas Morning News" that the victim expressed concerns for the safety bar. It wasn't secure before the ride started. Authorities are investigating the cause of this accident. The blistering heat has blanketed much of the U.S. is being blamed for two more deaths in Milwaukee raising the total this week to five. A 64-year-old woman found dead in her home. The temperature was 93 degrees inside the house and all the windows were closed because the family feared violence. A 69-year-old man died after being hospitalized with a body temperature of 102. Earlier this week, three men were found dead of heat related causes in their homes.

A tornado rips through Ursuline College in northeastern Ohio causing extensive damage. The twister destroyed the school's gymnasium and damaged three other buildings. Luckily, it happened early yesterday. No one was in the buildings when the tornado hit and no injuries were reported.

Phil Mickelson says he played the round of his life and it was more than good enough to win the first British open. Mickelson shot a blistering 66 today including four birdies in the last six holes. In case you are wondering, Tiger Woods stumbled to the finish with a final round of 74.

CNN's Rachel Nichols will join us later this hour to talk about the Mickelson's win. Congratulations to him.

With tears from a juror, a heated exchange and expletives and the suspicion death of a witness, the trial of reputed mobster Whitey Bulger is a wild one. We will hear from a man who worked for Bulger right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Now to the most exciting trial not on television, I'm talking about the trial of reputed mob boss Whitey Bulger and last week's testimony was some of the craziest yet.

Who better to talk about this than this man who have talking to him, John "Red" Shea? He once worked for Bulger and he is the author of "rat bastards: the life and times of south Boston's most honorable Irish mobster."

So Red, let's go back to Wednesday, shall we? That's when this man, 54-year-old, Stephen Rakes, was found dead less than 24 hours after he learned he was dropped from the prosecution's witness list. It is so unclear how he died but authorities say the death is suspicious. So what's your take on this?

JOHN "RED" SHEA, FORMER MOBSTER: Well, I mean, you know, I feel -- my condolences first of all to the family, Don. There was this discrepancy in the testimony of one of the witnesses. When he had said before and then changed his mind about the whole situation with Mr. Rakes and how he was shook down for his liquor store. That said, Mr. Rakes went out after the court trial was -- had ended, went out and gave an interview to the news saying, hey, he had his day and I'm disputing what he says and I'm going to have my chance on the stand. Well, a few days later, I knew right then to be honest with you he wasn't going to be put on the stand by the government. The government wasn't going to let him dispute one of their star witnesses. It wasn't going to happen whether he was a victim or not.

And, you know, that's just the way it goes sometimes. Unfortunately for him, he waited 30 years to tell his story bit he never get the chance to do it. What happened? Who knows/ I'm not going to speculate on that.

LEMON: You don't think it's suspicious?

SHEA: It's too early to speculate. You know what? I don't want to say that it's suspicious. I mean, it's a bit bizarre, yes. You know what? Who knows what it is? I don't want to speculate.

LEMON: All right, Red.

SHEA: It is not a polite thing to do.

LEMON: You must have good reason if you're hedging a bit here.

SHEA: Yes. I mean, you know, out of respect to the family and respect to him, also.

LEMON: All right. Let's move on to Thursday, Red. OK? Because Steven "the rifleman" Flemmi took the stand. Flemmi is a prosecution's key witness and served as Bulger's right hand man for nearly two decades. As he entered the courtroom, he and Bulger exchange some obscenities and in by Friday, he admitted his role in ten killings. He says Bulger ordered including the strangling death of this girlfriend, 26-year-old, Deborah Davis. It was that testimony that brought one of the jurors to tears.

So, Red, you worked with Bulger. Did you know Flemmi and how damaging do you think his testimony is?

SHEA: Yes. I knew Stevie well. You know, let's put it this way. I'm saying it from day one. I've said it to Deborah Feyerick on your show CNN. Stevie is the nail in the coffin for Whitey Bulger. He was his partner. He was there for everything, Don. He was there for all of the meetings with the FBI. He was there for 90 percent of the killings. And everything that Whitey did he knew about, whether he was there or he wasn't there. He was well informed. They were partners.

But, in the end, we know who the real boss was because, hey, what guy would let a man, OK, kill his own girlfriend, someone that he loved so much. Whether he had dropped, you know, a little word to her saying that, you know, they were associated with a FBI agent and had to meet him for, you know, and stuff like that, doesn't make -- doesn't matter. If he loved her that much, he would have never let him strangle her to death.

LEMON: Red, Flemmi is going to be back on the stand for cross- examination next week before the prosecution wraps up this case. Then it's the defense's turn leading to the big question, will Whitey Bulger take the stand? Do you think he'll take the stand?

SHEA: Well, there's a choice of words that I would like to use on television but I can't.

LEMON: Thanks.

SHEA: Yes, you're welcome. I will be considerate and I will say, he has a lot of guts in some ways but, you know what? I say he doesn't have the guts to get on the stand. I challenge him to get on the stand. Let's hear what he has to say. You know? His ego just might be big enough and he does have a big ego. But I still challenge him to get on the stand. If he gets on the stand, they will eat him alive.

LEMON: When you -- when Steven Rakes, when you see what happened with Steven Rakes, you're hedging and said it's a little odd. You don't want to say it's suspicious. But do you worry about your own safety after you come on television and you say all this stuff? You don't hold your tongue. You say it like it is. Do you ever worry?

SHEA: A guy who's walked the walk and has never ratted on anyone as we know, I can walk down any street anywhere any time and respected for being a man and taking responsibility and not pointing the finger at anyone in my life or in the life that I lived at the time. These guys here, they are the first guys to get on the stand, to save their soul, to save their hide and point the finger at each other. I didn't. I have nothing to worry about.

LEMON: Jon "Red" Shea, thank you, sir.

SHEA: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Coming up, this was the cover that sparked outrage around the country and these are the photos a Boston police officer released in protest. Now, see how thousands of people are trying to save his job.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: "Rolling Stone's" cover of suspected Boston bombing Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is sparking fresh outrages. Senator John McCain said it's horrifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I thought it was stupid. I thought it was glorifying an individual that represents the -- represents a great threat to innocent lives and which is responsible for the taking of innocent lives and I thought it was stupid and I thought it was inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Several national chain stores refusing to sell the magazine. The photo is a self portrait shot by the 19-year-old Dzhokhar himself. It is in circulation for months. It appeared in the Sunday "New York Times," on the 5th and other publications, as well.

Meanwhile, a movement is under way to try to save the career of a Massachusetts state police sergeant. Sean Murphy was enraged by what he called the glamorization of the Tsarnaev on the "Rolling Stone" cover. So, he released bloody photos from the night Tsarnaev was captured telling "Boston" magazine, he wanted the show a more accurate portrait of a terrorist. Well, in 25-year police veteran was suspended for the unauthorized release of those photos. Now, facebook page is set up urging that sergeant Murphy be reinstated. It has more than 30,000 likes. Murphy's status will be reviewed this week.

Meanwhile, more information about a possible link between Tamerlan Tsarnaev and a triple murder in 2011, police never questioned Tsarnaev about those murders, but one victim was Tsarnaev's close friend.

And CNN's Deborah Feyerick talked to the owner of a gym where Tamerlan and his friend trained.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the terror attack on Boston three people in John Allan's world were about to collide. Three people who trained in boxing and mixed martial arts. All three are now dead. And key among them is bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev, seen working out in Allan's Wai Kru gym days before the attack.

Were you surprised at the demeanor, 72 hours before those bombs --

JOHN ALLAN, OWNER, WAI KRU MIXED MARTIAL ARTS CENTER: Unbelievable. Just him entering the ring -- I mean, you know, like jumping over both legs. Feet shoulder height.

FEYERICK: Right.

ALLAN: Clearing the ring, hopping in, jumping rope like, yes, like he was on top of the world.

FEYERICK: Allan trained both Tsarnaev and another Russian speaker, Ibrahim Tadashev.

ALLAN: There were a few times that Ibrahim and Tamerlan prayed to Mecca in the gym which was not abnormal for Ibrahim because he did it from day one, but it was abnormal to Tamerlan.

FEYERICK: They were getting closer?

ALLAN: It seemed so, yes.

FEYERICK: Allan says Tadashev and Tsarnaev trained together in 2011. That same year Tsarnaev's friend Brendan Mess who also trained in a gym was murdered in a near beheading along with two pals. Tsarnaev was never interviews by state troopers n connection with his friend's murder or the murder or other two thickets, Eris Weissman and Raffy al-teken (ph).

Did Tarmelan ever tell you that police had come to speak to him, about what he knew about Brendan, the jugs, anything?

ALLAN: No. You know, I mean, around here, they call it NHI.

FEYERICK: Which is?

ALLAN: No humans involved.

FEYERICK: OK, which means?

ALLAN: There were three drug dealers murdered over drugs and money.

FEYERICK: That was the perception, even though only one of the victims faced drug related charges. Shortly after the murders, Tadashev moved to Florida. Tarmelan Tsarnaev left Boston and traveled to Dagestan where it's believed he was radicalized.

Was it weird disappeared to you that Tamerlan just disappeared after those murders?

ALLAN: No, because we had been in serious dialogue about him becoming a professional Boxer. He definitely had become disillusioned and he was very hesitant to do it.

FEYERICK: Allan says he gave FBI agents Tadashev's name. Tadashev was shot by a FBI agent after allegedly implicating himself in the murders.

What questions do you have over the death of Ibrahim Tadashev?

ALLAN: I think everybody has questions. That's a bizarre story and situation. It is very hard to believe.

FEYERICK: A seemingly bizarre coincidence of two unthinkable crimes and a cast of characters all connected to Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his days working out at a Boston gym.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Boston, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Deb.

Well, the middle-sex district attorney's office which heading the investigation into the triple murder case says it's conducted a thorough investigation from the start and the investigation active an ongoing.

From the streets to the White House, Trayvon Martin case is sparking conversations around this country. And now, it could prompt changes on Capitol Hill. We are going to explain that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Today that Trayvon Martin conversation has moved from outside to inside. Saturday's call to action compelled thousands of people to rally at federal buildings and courthouses in more than 100 cities around the country. Well, today, lawmakers and newsmakers took to the airwaves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I can also see that Stand Your Ground law may be something that needs to be reviewed by the Florida -- legislature.

CANDY CROWLEY, ANCHOR, CNN'S STATE OF THE UNION: In Arizona?

MCCAIN: By the Florida legislature or any other legislature that has passed such legislation. Obviously, a lot of things need to come up for review but to somehow condemn the verdict of the jury you would have to show me where the jury was corrupted by any -- in any way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A lot of shows, of course, were taped in Washington, D.C. so let's go to Washington and to CNN's Athena Jones.

Athena, that's what, you know, Senator John McCain had to say earlier this morning. He told Candy Crowley that he agrees with President Obama that Stand Your Ground needs to be looked at.

Who else made the rounds today talking about the Zimmerman verdict?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. Well, probably doesn't surprise you that a lot of people had a lot of things to say not just about the Zimmerman verdict on the Sunday talk shows here but also about the president's response to this case and the debate and outrage it's ignited.

I want to play for you a clip from two shows. One from own "STATE OF THE UNION." It's Congressman Xavier Becerra, a Democrat of California, followed by PBS host Tavis Smiley who was speaking on "Meet the Press." They showed the mix of views or part of the mix of views we saw today.

Let's go ahead and play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: I have never seen a president of the United States address this, address it personally. And that's a big difference that now you've got a president to say, I remember when that woman clutched her purse. I remember hearing the door locks click.

That makes you think a lot more when your own president says that and hopefully that's what helps us change attitude.

TAVIS SMILEY, PBS AND RADIO HOST: The president, again, is the right person at the right place at the right time to do more. I am not part of the anything is enough generation. I want the president to step in this moment, as Colin just pointed out, and lead us in a complex conversation about these very difficult issues. I don't want him to shrink from the calling of this moment historically.

(END VIDEO CLIP) JONES: And so there you have an example of the mix of views. Interestingly, Congressman Becerra's point echoed a lot of the views I heard when I went out immediately after the presidential remarks and had a chance to speak to ordinary people walking around the mall here in D.C.

Many of the African-Americans I spoke to were really pleased to hear the president come out and speak in this personal way about this case and about his own experience being black in America. Something we haven't really heard him do in that personal of terms during his whole presidency.

On the flip side, of course, you have Tavis smiley who has been a pretty reliable critic of the president over the last several years saying that he wants more. We heard what he said on "Meet the Press" and on Friday he sent out several tweets after the president spoke, saying that he wanted him to do more and that he wasn't showing leadership on this issue. So I think that this conversation is certainly going to continue -- Don.

LEMON: I think he said the president is weak -- and I'm paraphrasing, as weak and as sweet as Kool-Aid was one of the -- one of the tweets. Very sharp, focused language there.

Thank you very much, Athena. We appreciate it.

JONES: Thanks.

LEMON: Coming up, see Phil Mickelson's unbelievable performance at the British Open next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All eyes were on Tiger Woods but Phil Mickelson stole the show. Woods faulted in today's final round at the British Open just as Mickelson caught fire and stormed to victory.

CNN's Rachel Nichols joins me.

Rachel, Tiger gets compared to Jack Nicklaus. Phil is more like Arnold Palmer. Risk taker, popular with the fans. Has Phil solidified his spot as one of the all-time greats?

RACHEL NICHOLS, ANCHOR, CNN SPORTS: You know, he's already a Hall of Famer but by winning this, his first British Open, there's no question he moves up the pantheon and you're absolutely right. He is a risk taker.

Phil Mickelson is outrageously brave on the golf course and sometimes that ends up in us seeing the spectacular, sometimes it ends up feeling incredibly foolish. But hey, it is always exciting and we saw that just last month at the U.S. Open when he was leading on the final Sunday and then ended up blowing it coming in second.

He was very open after that tournament talking about how, quote, "heartbreaking" it was. Well, he also talked today about how he recovered from that. How he got from there to here in this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL MICKELSON, BRITISH OPEN CHAMPION: You have to be resilient in this game because losing is such a big part of it. And after losing the U.S. Open, it could have easily gone where -- gone south where I was so deflated. I had a hard time coming back. But I looked at it and thought I was playing really good golf. I have been playing some of the best of my career and that didn't want to stop me from some potential victories this year and some potential great play.

And I'm glad I didn't because I worked a little bit harder and in a matter of a month I'm able to change entirely the way I feel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: And we saw that great moment off the 18th. Him hugging his entire family just all wrapped up in each other. Phil's wife, Amy, very publicly battling breast cancer a few years ago. So an emotional moment, all of them together, and Phil's long-time caddy Bones was weeping there on the side. I don't know if the camera shot showed that.

But, hey, Don, when you can make a guy nicknamed Bones cry like a baby, you know that you've done something big, right?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Absolutely. You are right on. Rachel, thank you. Always a pleasure, my friend.

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

LEMON: All right.

Did you see that? Well, that happened. Yes. That happened in Russia. A classic lesson about not trying to pass a wide load on a narrow two-lane road but what about the reflex of the driver who avoided the flipping car without a scratch? Luckily everyone survived this spectacular crash.

Good reflexes but I think a little luck -- not a little luck. A whole lot of luck. Was involved, as well. My goodness.

Coming up, we've been talking a lot about race in this country, especially after the president spoke out on Friday about race. But what about class? Race and class. Not many people are talking about that. We're going to discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: George Zimmerman acquittal sparked so much discussion, so much soul searching nationwide, and two of the most interesting columns on CNN.com this week were written by L.Z. Granderson and Dean Obeidallah.

L.Z. is a CNN commentator and a senior writer at ESPN and Dean is a columnist for CNN.com.

L.Z., we're going to start with you because your column is very personal. Here's a quote from it. You said, "To be a parent of a young black man in this country is to be torn between wanting your son to see the world with no boundaries and warning him of the boundaries that are out there. Moving him into a safe neighborhood and then fearing for his safety. It's nerve-racking to tell you the truth. Anxiety grips my body each time he leaves home. Seeing the defense attorneys crack grim jokes and gloat after the not guilty verdict does not help matters."

And I think your son is probably the main reason that, you know, this case hit home for you and listening to parents of black kids, especially young black men, black boys, I think they worry about their safety a lot more than people may realize. And for different reasons.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. It's -- it is a true struggle for me because I am a product of the hood, if you will. I grew up on the east side of Detroit. I never went to a private school. I went to public schools. I grew up on government cheese, government pork. We grew up extremely poor. So I understand that aspect of life and I came out from it and I think I did all right.

And there's a part of me that never wants my son not to go through that because it made me the man that I am. It made me strong, it made me resilient. But at the same time, I don't want to make my son into a social experiment. I don't necessarily want him subjected to that environment because of all the bad things that can happen to him.

You know, the first time I was mugged I was in elementary school. I don't want my son mugged and so I constantly struggle back and forth between the community that I grew up in which was predominantly black and poor with a lot of violence around but there were good things that came from that.

And then putting him in an environment that is a higher class that may be predominantly white. He may lose some things but I gain a measure of safety. It's a different danger but I don't have to at least worry about the black-on-black crime rate because basically I'm not around black people anymore.

It's a struggle. It's frustrating. It's infuriating but this is part of the dance that I do as a parent of a young black male.

LEMON: OK, Dean. I'm going to get to you and then -- but no matter how much money you make, and no matter how much status you have, you can never buy your way out of that.

GRANDERSON: No, no. You can't. I mean, as I said, I constantly am filled with anxiety.

LEMON: Yes.

GRANDERSON: In the neighborhood we live in Chicago right now, as I said, it's fairly safe, it's predominantly white. And I wonder, as my son is jogging around the neighborhoods, if someone may look at him jogging in the cold with a hoodie on and wonder what is this young black male doing in our safe white neighborhood?

LEMON: Yes.

GRANDERSON: I don't mean to sound racist. I'm sure to some people it sounds racist but I want you to know the real deal.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: No, but you wonder. Yes.

GRANDERSON: This is the things -- yes.

LEMON: You worry about that. Yes.

GRANDERSON: These are some of the things that go through my mind. Will someone look at my young black child with his hood on, jogging because he's on the cross country team, and wondering if he's running to or into trouble.

LEMON: OK.

GRANDERSON: That's just one of the things that I have to deal with.

LEMON: Dean, you write about a racial empathy gap you say. And here's a quote. You say, "You don't have to agree with the opposing views but you should listen and try to understand them. But when was the last time you heard leaders, community groups, regardless of race, say, hey, let's look at the -- at it from the other side? I haven't."

Do you see people ever coming together on this issue?

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, CNN.COM COLUMNIST: I think it's going to take a lot of work and I think, frankly, in this time and age when there's a racial issue, a hot button issue, we cheer for our own race, our own side, like it's a sporting event. You know, we come together and we like -- and we demonize the other side --

LEMON: Dean, can I stop you right there? Can -- I don't believe that's true.

OBEIDALLAH: I think it's true.

LEMON: I am rooting for the other side to --

OBEIDALLAH: I see it all the time.

LEMON: Have to have some empathy and to understand and just say that what the president said day before yesterday that the president has some validity. I'm actually -- I'm actually rooting for the white guys and the white lady who's watching this, and who don't -- may not understand what the president is saying.

OBEIDALLAH: That's different.

LEMON: Yes. OBEIDALLAH: Right. But look what happened to President Obama. He made that speech and instantly you see people on the right pushing back. Not letting the words sink in. Pushing back on, how can there be racism? We have a president. He's black. He's been re-elected twice. We're saying things about Trayvon Martin, sort of saying who care about him?

In Chicago, 94 percent of the people killed by -- black people killed were killed by other people black people like he doesn't matter, Trayvon Martin. So instead of thinking about it from the point of view as a white person, well, what's it must be like to live in a world where you're considered suspicious simply because of your skin color?

And that's something most white people can't relate to. I used to be white. I'm Arab American. Before 9/11, I live that white life. Afterwards I live in a different world where I'm Muslim, and I'm Arab American, and I'm racially profiled, and (INAUDIBLE) profiled, and it's a new experience for me.

(LAUGHTER)

It was eye-opening. Believe me. It was shocking. It's not something you want. So all I do is I ask -- and I'm half white. I ask my fellow half -- other white people, think about what it's like to have your skin color as a determinant factor if you're suspicious or not. How unfair would that be? And I said to the African-American community, look what it must be like. You don't have to agree with this.

LEMON: Yes.

OBEIDALLAH: But think what it must be like to be white person living in a community where the only black people you see are criminals. So of course you're suspicious of black people. And it's not right. You don't have to agree with either side. Just think about it for a moment. Maybe you understand their fears and what move them.

LEMON: Yes. I don't know if --

GRANDERSON: You know, Jon Huntsman used to talk about --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I've got to go. I've got to go. My producer tells me I have to go. But it's just funny. I don't know if Dean is --

GRANDERSON: All right.

LEMON: -- the angry white guy, the angry Muslim guy. The -- I don't know what it is.

OBEIDALLAH: I'm angry. I'm just angry, Don.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: He's just angry.

(LAUGHTER)

OBEIDALLAH: I'm just angry.

LEMON: Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. Wish we had longer but unfortunately we don't. We only have a limited time. Thank you both.

We're going to talk to -- everyone says, Don, if you're going to talk about the generation gap when it comes to race, why don't you talk to some young people? OK. We're going to do it. We're going to do it live, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. I'm going to get you some live pictures now from Texas, and it's in Houston. But the reason this is important is because this is -- this is a pro, what you're looking at live pictures from our affiliate KHOU. This is a pro-Trayvon Martin rally. And this is in River Oaks, the River Oaks neighborhood. It was a pretty exclusive neighborhood, pretty tony neighborhood of -- tony neighborhood of Houston, Texas.

And they are marching towards a pro-George Zimmerman group, which is at a mall. And so there you see -- do you see the police presence? Do we have the V.O. of the -- the video of the other group?

And so they're trying to keep these folks off the streets, trying to keep them on the sidewalks. This is the Zimmerman group. It's a small group of people, those are the pro-Zimmerman group. But they're at a mall in the River Oaks neighborhood and they have been protesting and holding up signs.

Some of the stores didn't open today -- and they were holding up signs because this Zimmerman group is at the mall. And then now this -- so the stores didn't open. So now this Trayvon Martin group is marching towards them. And so we'll see what happens. We'll keep -- we'll keep you updated on that. Hopefully there -- nothing will happen and both sides will just do what their right as Americans -- what they can do, just protest. Protest peacefully. You can do that in America. So we'll keep you updated.

Let's move on now. We want to talk about race relations with a new generation. Each generation's views on race relations become more fresh. They gain a fresher perspective. Well, this week our nation's first African-American president talked personally about racism. And thousands rallied to show outrage over George Zimmerman's not guilty verdict for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

You just saw two rallies there, one of them live, the other one you saw a video of. So we want to know how does Generation Y handle race relations?

So let's bring in Shelby Lena -- Shelby Lena Clayton is a student at the University of Georgia joining us from Los Angeles. And there's Chadwick Smith, an incoming student at the College of Wooster joins us in Atlanta. And then Colin Christensen, a student at Emory & Henry College joins us in Washington.

How are you guys doing today? You guys look nice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

CHADWICK SMITH, INCOMING STUDENT, COLLEGE OF WOOSTER: Great. Thank you, Don.

SHELBY LENA CLAYTON, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA: Thank you.

LEMON: OK. Great. OK. First I want to talk about the N word, right? Because you know, Trayvon Martin's friend, Rachel Jeantel, says her generation has tweaked the N word. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL JEANTEL, TRAYVON MARTIN'S FRIEND: It starts spelling, N-I-G-G- A. Nigga.

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S PIERS MORGAN LIVE: What does that mean to you? That way of spelling it? What is that word mean to you?

JEANTEL: That means a male.

MORGAN: A black male?

JEANTEL: No, any kind of male.

MORGAN: Black or white?

JEANTEL: Any kind. Chinese you can say nigga. That's my chino nigga. But nigger or nigger, I advise you not to be by black people because they're not going to have it like that.

MORGAN: Right.

JEANTEL: Because that's a racist word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So Chadwick, to you first. All right? Just today, I'm having lunch with a friend. He said he was at dinner last night with a group of people. One of the guys said to him, he's half Puerto Rican, the other guy is Puerto Rican, said hey, what's up, my nigga? And he said, what did you say? He said he was offended by it.

But not just black people say this word to each other. So do you agree with Rachel Jeantel that it's OK for anyone to say N-I-G-G-A?

SMITH: Anyone, no. I think black people can use the word with the word with A ending because just because it holds a lot of meaning -- derogatory meaning behind it and it's hurtful. And I think we just need to be more careful about what we say so I don't think anyone can use this word.

LEMON: OK. But young people use that word. Come on. Don't tell me you don't.

SMITH: No, I do, I do. In the (INAUDIBLE), I do.

LEMON: Yes. So you use it but you wouldn't want to -- you wouldn't want to hear a white person use it?

SMITH: I've heard white people say and I've heard Hispanic people say it. I wouldn't want to hear them say it but sometimes I just let it roll off my shoulders when I hear it.

LEMON: OK. So Shelby, as a young black female, do you agree with Rachel Jeantel? How do you react to someone when they say the N word in your presence?

CLAYTON: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the pop culture that our generation is actually basically listening to the music that some of our artists have used that word in their lyrics and some people it didn't really matter what race and whether -- what socioeconomic background, they have used that word numerous times in everyday lifestyles.

So I really -- I don't think -- I don't necessarily like the word, especially how it's evolved in just everyday jargon, but I do think that it has a lot to do with our pop culture and how it's been able for people to use that every day.

LEMON: Do you use it?

CLAYTON: I mean -- no.

LEMON: Come on, tell me the truth.

CLAYTON: Not in the terms -- not in the terms of how Rachel Jeantel was -- I don't really like that word so I try not to use it. But --

LEMON: But you do -- you have used it?

CLAYTON: Well, it -- yes, but not in the way that Rachel Jeantel was stating how I used it.

LEMON: OK. All right, OK. Colin -- don't be nervous. That's OK. We're all just being honest here.

Collin, what do you think of the word?

CHRISTENSEN, STUDENT, EMORY AND HENRY COLLEGE: I mean personally, as a white male, I think it -- as much as you tweak that word, it still has a very negative connotation. And I think it is synonymous with the lesser form that it was used in the Jim Crow era. And I think that, you know, we really need to value our fellow human beings and not use derogatory words like that, because I don't think you can divorce the word even in its modern sense from its negative connotation that it definitely gained in the Jim Crow era.

LEMON: Yes. So do you think that -- a lot of people said that they didn't understand. And even the witness which was interviewed here on CNN said she didn't understand Rachel Jeantel and a lot of African- Americans said yes, I understood her, and a lot of the younger people said, I understood her.

Did you understand, Colin, what she was saying? Is it a generation gap?

CHRISTENSEN: Yes, I definitely understood when she was saying in the sense that, you know, our generation is definitely influenced by -- as Shelby said, we're definitely influenced by a pop culture, by a media addiction to the -- you know, that's predicated on the use of these words.

And I definitely think it may have come across to the jurors a little bit differently because they are so much older than our generation. But I think, you know, President Obama is correct, that each generation gets better and I think with the next generation and the generations to come, that even these words may become less frequently used.

LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So, Colin, Chadwick, Shelby, thank you all. You guys were great. You don't have to worry about if you use the word or not, no one is going to be mad at you, all right? I want -- I want to have you guys back --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

LEMON: -- when we have more time. We had some breaking news and I wanted to spend more time with you but thank you for being so honest and coming on CNN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

CHRISTENSEN: Well, great. Thank you, Don.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No problem, thank you.

LEMON: All right.