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Mother Arrested for Helping Son in Jail Break; Convicted Father Testifies in Son's Murder Trial; Another Spying Program Aimed Towards U.S. Citizens; Tawana Brawley Rape, Racial Insult a Hoax.

Aired August 05, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: You would think that a guy who has a long rap sheet, charges of aggravated robbery, breaking and entering, burglary and fleeing, might not have a whole lot of support from his mommy. But police say a guy named Derek Estell's own mommy helped him to escape from jail.

Take a good look. Here he is. He made a run for this last week, squeezing through a sliding glass window, and he is still on the run, and he is considered armed and dangerous. And if you're wondering how big a window a guy like this would have access to, it's 12 x 30. I was trying to figure how big 12 x 30 is, so we did this cutout. It turns out it's big enough almost to do cartwheels through. This was the window apparently in the reception of this detention facility. Think it's easy to get through that? Yeah. Especially when you might have help.

CNN Nick Valencia explains the mom apparently isn't the only one suspected to be in on this. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Derek Estell is on the run after this brazen jail break last week in Garland County, Arkansas. Now police have identified another possible accomplice. His mother, Glenda Estelle, has been arrested for allegedly helping her 33-year-old son escape.

According to the police report, between June and July, a total of 40 calls were made between Estell and her son detailing a plot to break free from the jail.

VITO COLUCCI JR, PRIVATE DETECTIVE & FORMER POLICE OFFICER: This guy escaped just in March from another prison. Now, you would think when he went to this new one, they would have said this guy is a runner. We have to make sure we keep our eyes on him all the time.

VALENCIA: Police say Estell, seen in this surveillance video talking on the phone right before his escape, was speaking with his mother. According to a review of the call, his mother asks if he's still shackled. A short time later, he jumps out the sliding glass window.

DEPUTY SCOTT HINOJOSA, GARLAND COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: They had their back turned at that time.

VALENCIA: Police have also arrested 58-year-old William Harding, suspected of distracting the guards and providing the getaway car, and an arrest warrant has been issued for the driver of that car, Tamara Upshaw. As for Estell, he was being held for allegedly stealing a car in March and leading police on a chase that ended with a standoff.

HINOJOSA: Typically in the past, any dealings with Mr. Estell, there's been -- he's been in possession of a firearm.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Estell's lengthy rap sheet includes 26 charges of aggravated robbery, breaking and entering, burglary and fleeing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Thanks to Nick Valencia for that report.

And by the way, police do tell CNN that he may attempt to go to Dallas County, Missouri. Dallas County, Missouri, not Texas. It's an area he has been protecting in the past along with his girlfriend, who was the alleged get away driver. CNN has not been able to determine if his mom at this point has an attorney, but stand by for more on that one.

Checking some of our top stories now. We are getting new information about one of the passengers killed when an Asiana Airlines crash landed in San Francisco last month. "The San Francisco Chronicle" reports the fire department's supervisors were not alerted that a 16- year-old had been found near the plane. The video shows the girl was run over by a fire rig after she was covered by the foam fire retardant. The footage was recorded by a camera that was mounted on the helmet of a fire battalion chief.

A plant implosion in California that went horribly wrong. Everything looks like it's going according to plan, just as most implosions do, but this one in Bakersfield resulted in five people being injured because the debris flew so hard far, it hit the crowds. One person was so badly injured he had his leg amputated. Not this person. This person had bad injuries. But the other person not only may one both leg, may in fact loose both legs. So quite a serious result from that implosion.

In another story making top headlines, a house of horrors in Cleveland, Ohio. Ariel Castro's home where he held three women captive for a decade is set to be demolished perhaps sometime this week. And family members are there today. They are allowed to gather items like musical instruments and tools from the garage, but if they find any money, money, they have been told to turn it over to authorities.

Tonight, at 9:00 eastern, Piers Morgan will talk to an expert how Castro's victims can possibly move forward with any sense of normalcy in their lives. A father already convicted in his own stepson's death is testifying as his own son goes on trial for that death. Here's what Joshua Gouker said earlier about this killing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSHUA GOUKER, TESTIFIES IN SON'S MURDER TRIAL: It's one murder. You know, it's not like it was a whole bunch of murders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Just one. Not like it's a whole bunch of murders. You heard right. Wait until you hear why he said that.

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BANFIELD: Today we're hearing from a key witness in a trial. Not just any trial, a trial of a 17-year-old boy who is accused of helping his own father murder his own little stepbrother. And the witness is the father himself. Joshua Gouker is going to take the stand. He pleaded guilty last month to the beating death of 14-year-old Trey Zwicker. That death happened behind a high school in Louisville. He's going to serve a life sentence for that. And he is on the stand in his own son's trial right now. Gouker's son, Joshua Young, is charged with something called complicity to murder and complicity to tampering with evidence. At the time of all of this, he was only 15. You look at him in the courtroom and he looks even younger than that now. But he, too, is going to face a potential of life in prison if convicted of this crime.

And just a short time ago, his dad explained why he killed his stepson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOUKER: It just felt right at the time, but that wasn't why I did it. I mean, it's not like I wanted Trey to die or, if I could do it over, I'd kill him again. None of that, you know. I mean, his mother killed a couple of mine. And it just felt right. I mean, I know it sounds monstrous and all that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), but it's not. If we was in the Old Testament, it would be the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wow. You don't often see that, but then again, he's already got the uniform on, the jump suit. He ain't going anywhere. Why not take the rap, all right? Or maybe not.

I want to bring back our two attorneys, Brian Kabateck, a criminal offense attorney, as well as former prosecutor, Nicole Deborde.

Brian, it's such a weird dynamic when you have a father and son and the victim is another son, stepson. Do you think jurors can see right through the orange jump suit, the mea culpa, the filthy language? Do they see right through that and say you're just trying to protect your kid, it's obvious? BRIAN KABATECK, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I'm not sure. I'm not sure why the prosecutor is putting them on -- him on in their case. I mean, his testimony is going to be, or has been at least at this point, I did it. Now there's earlier testimony where he said that Joshua, the defendant in the case, did it. And then he switched back and he says, no, I did it. I acted alone. So I'm not sure why the prosecutors are putting this guy on in their case in chief.

And then you have a jury looking at someone who, as you indicated, Ashleigh, looks now like he's younger than 15. He's 17 now, but was 15 at the time. They're going to look at him and at the monster that's on the stand. I'm just trying to understand why a prosecutor would put this guy on the stand in the first place.

BANFIELD: It's weird, right? It's a ping-pong match honestly.

KABATECK: It is. It's very weird.

BANFIELD: Look, I have the benefit of watching TV monitors. If you're sitting in that courtroom, I assume that you can only go back and forth between the monster on the stand, who is fully admitting what a monster he is, and that cherub-faced baby at the defense table accused of one of the most heinous crimes Americans can be accused of.

By the way, speaking of that monster on the state, I want you to listen to something he is. Admitted, "I am a liar." Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOUKER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED), I've lied this whole (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time except since arraignment. Since arraignment court, I've told you I've done it. I admitted everything I've done. I've been sentenced for it, life in prison. Yet, here I am going over the same (EXPLETIVE DELETED) story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, how about this, Nicole. Is this a matter of the prosecutor saying if we just put him up there, it will be so over the top that the jury will see through this and they will see that this is a family of horrors? I'm trying to figure this one out.

NICOLE DEBORDE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yeah, I think it's a really difficult call for the prosecution. I mean, I think it's very possible if they chose not to call him, that the jurors would be wondering what on earth they were trying to hide. So they might find themselves in a catch 22. Do we call the guy, go ahead and let him say whatever he's going to say, and at least direct the testimony by asking the questions we want answered and let them see we're not hiding anything, or do they take the gamble that the defense gets to call him and have this guy say, I've been trying to tell everyone the same story since the beginning and then be stuck trying to impeach him with cross. It's a tough call. This is the choice they made. We'll see how it pans out.

BANFIELD: Will we ever. I got to say, every time I see a defendant like this, I think -- the King brothers were the last time I couldn't take my eyes off them in Florida. Oscar King and Derek King look like babies. They look like babies. I know that's not lost on jurors.

Brian and Nicole, don't go anywhere. Hold your thoughts for a moment because I'm going to have to mine them in a moment.

A secret government program that may be far more reaching than the one conducted by the NSA. And guess what. Yup, it's targeting you, American citizens, not terrorists in some foreign land. You. That's according to an exclusive report by Reuters. I'm going to explain the full extent of it coming up.

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BANFIELD: If you're outraged or even a wee bit troubled by the NSA scandal, this next story may really tick you off, putting it mildly. And this is basic cable. According to an exclusive report by Reuters, the DEA, Drug Enforcement Administration in this country, is now directing agents to cover-up investigations of American citizens. I will repeat that. The DEA is asking their agents to cover up some of the work that they've done while they've been investigating Americans, fellow Americans. Reuters says this is a secret program, that it has nothing to do with national security, like the terrorism and everything you've been hearing about before by the NSA. This is being carried out by a Special Operations Division. That's SOD for short. Reuters says it includes two dozen agencies, including the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the IRS and the Department of Homeland Security. Reuters also says that the SOD funnels information from intel intercepts like wiretaps, informants, this massive database of telephone records, and they funnel that stuff to officials right across the country. Some of the legal experts are saying that this is a program that violates any defendant's constitutional rights to a fair trial. But look, we lie all the time. And it's legal to lie when you're trying to solve crimes if you're a cop.

So I want to get a little bit deeper on this with the person who did the investigation in the first place. John Shiffman is the co-author of the Reuters report. And also joining us again is Brian Kabateck.

John, let me start with you.

I tried best I could to boil this down, but I want to get the essence of what this really means and why this matters to somebody, say, in Poughkeepsie or in Idaho who is watching right now.

JOHN SHIFFMAN, REUTERS ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it matters because what the agents are doing is, it's not so much the way in which they conduct the investigations. It's the manner in which they hide what they're doing. So if you're in Idaho and you get arrested, you get pulled over by a state trooper, and they make a drug case against you, the state trooper would write down in his report and would testify that the case began when he pulled you over for speeding. But in fact, what's been happening is, in many cases, is that this DEA center called the SOD has been receiving these tips and passing them along to other law enforcement agencies across the country. Passing along the tips is fine. Probably. But what -- what's wrong is, according to many experts, is the fact that DEA and other agencies have instructed that receipt this tips never to reveal that they have received these tips.

BANFIELD: OK, why? John, why, if there's nothing wrong with how they began the case, and like you said, it didn't start with the roadside stop. It started well before that, when the feds sent the info to the locals and said, do a roadside stop and get this guy. If there was nothing wrong with what the feds did originally, why are they covering it up?

SHIFFMAN: The DEA says they do it to protect sources and methods. But the thing is, in the United States courts and the regular criminal courts, the common courts, there are procedures for protecting sources. You go before a judge, you have a special hearing, in-camera evidence is presented. In this case, a lot of times prosecutors don't even know. I interview a current prosecutor who told me that a DEA agent told him that he had received the information from an informant. That was how the case was started. When, in the fact, when the prosecutor pushed, it turned out that the information came from an NSA wiretap. The prosecutor was very angry. And it infringes on a defendant's right to try to defend himself. There's also potential exculpatory evidence that could --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: OK. That makes more sense now.

Brian, ump in here with me, if you will. Is this a situation where the discovery is only half because you're not getting anything before, say, that roadside stop? You're not getting any of the wiretaps or those informants reports, et cetera, or ultimately does it all come out in the wash just a little too late?

KABATECK: It's outrageous. If this is true and this story is accurate, it's a violation of the United States Constitution. It's a violation of the Sixth Amendment right to confront your accusers. It's a violation of the obligation that every prosecutor has, from the lowest-level prosecutor in the smallest county in the United States, to the federal government, the Justice Department, to turn over all evidence to the defense attorney, the defense team and the defendant that they had in the case. If this is accurate it could mean dozens, maybe hundreds of criminal convictions will be set aside when this comes out.

I can't believe this slow drift into this lack of privacy and the kind of information the government is getting. This just sounds like another example of it.

BANFIELD: OK, John, I want to be real clear. Is what you're reporting that all of that information prior to -- I'm going to use the example of the guy getting pulled over after the feds tipped off the locals to pull him over. All of that origination information doesn't become public? That defendant never gets to confront all of the aspects that led to the original drive and pull over?

SHIFFMAN: According to the agents that we talked to -- we talked to more than a dozen former agents and prosecutors, and according to the training slides that we posted on reuters.com, the agents are instructed to do something called parallel construction, which means you carve out and you recreate the investigation.

BANFIELD: Ick. That just sounds really ugly. And I can't imagine -- you right, it just doesn't sound legal, not with our Constitution. You have the right to confront your accusers and you have the right to know what you're accused of. And parallel construction sounds like it's an eraser.

I'll be looking forward to further reporting on this.

Thank you, John Shiffman, from Reuters.

SHIFFMAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And, Brian Kabateck, thank you for weighing in as well.

More than two decades ago, she falsely accused an innocent man of rape and, last week, Tawana Brawley made her first payment for the defamation case that she went up against and lost. And update on this infamous case when we return.

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BANFIELD: Thousand of rape evidence kits that have sat untouched in Texas for decades are finally going to be tested. "The Texas Tribune" is reporting that this is thanks to $11 million that has been set aside in Texas for the Department of Public Safety to analyze the DNA evidence they collected. It's estimated that between 16,000 and 20,000 kits are sitting untested in that state. Nationwide, it's awful. There are about 400,000 of those kits.

She made national headlines more than quarter of a century ago but she's now only beginning to pay for her wrong doings. If the name Tawana Brawley sounds familiar, it should. She was 15 years old when she falsely accused a group of white mean, including a police officer and D.A. in New York, of raping her. And not just raping her but scrawling racial terms on her body and leaving her in a trash bag.

That's the Reverend Al Sharpton you see beside her. Way back then, he was and up-and-coming street activist, and he famously took up her call and called for racial justice for Tawana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL SHARPTON, ACTIVIST: Ms. Brawley, the victim, identified him. And Miss Brawley's family said that. She's been in public and private gatherings where it's been discussed. There's no evidence to the contrary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It turns out it was all a hoax. Tawana Brawley had lied to avoid getting in trouble. She was sued for defamation. For 26 years, she hadn't paid a dime of the $400,000 judgment against her. Last week, that changed. She made her first payment. She could end up paying for the rest of her life. But the man who won the suit says he will forgive her if she will apologize and officially clear his name.

That's all the time that we have on this program. Thank you so much for watching.

AROUND THE WORLD starts after this short break.

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