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Is Snake Owner Liable for Children's Deaths?; Pete Rose Talks Baseball, A-Rod; Jury Gets Whitey Bulger Case.
Aired August 06, 2013 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: OK, so John, apparently these two boys were his best friend's kids. This is what he has told one of the Canadian broadcasters that interviewed him. So they were in his care and that snake is his snake. So what Faith says stands to reason. He's liable no matter what. But doesn't that up the game when it comes to crime?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, sometimes things like this are statutory, which means that if there are specific laws which make this an animal an inherent dangerous animal, then as Faith talked about, the strict liability would come into play, which would mean that if the snake escaped, no matter what, he would be responsible. But I don't know if there's any such statute in this part of Canada. And if even if there was, you would have to show some sort of recklessness, or something that the person didn't do that an ordinary person would do. So it would be a case-by-case basis. And this is an unforeseeable circumstance. The odds of something like this are slim to none. So there's a -- you know, in my opinion, there would be a lot of defenses as to what a defense attorney could say regarding his criminal liability.
BANFIELD: Let's leave it at this. If you have a python, and if the python is a hundred pounds or not even, that's dangerous behavior right there and you better beware that you'll have to deal with whatever happens.
I want to get you to another odd story. A 45-year-old man in Washington State is suspected of killing his bomb after putting a bomb, some sort of explosive device around his neck, and then blowing the dog up. He's apparently been jailed -- and help me on this one -- guys, for mischief, reckless endangerment, and possession of explosive devices, but the sheriff says he's not going to charge him with animal abuse, because he says that the dog could not possibly have suffered.
Faith, that sounds like abuse no matter what. Explain that to me.
FAITH JENKINS, ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: It's a completely misapplication and misinterpretation under the law. Because the level of suffering is not the beginning and end of the question when it comes to animal abuse. It's did you commit an intentional act that caused physical injury or in this case, death to an animal? And that is exactly what happened here. It is a class "C" felony, it is animal abuse in the first degree. The act itself is the abuse, not the suffering. So this is a complete misapplication of the law here. BANFIELD: And that's what I thought. John, I thought, I read that, a lot of people say, premeditated murder, if you just bring out the gun and fire, it can't possibly be premeditation, but you can have premeditation in the blink of a second under the law, why can't you have suffering in the blink of a second under the law?
MANUELIAN: You should be able to, but as Faith correctly pointed out, it's not necessarily. And in this case, the prosecution is the one that has discretion, it's not the police officer or the investigating officer who makes that call. They make a suggestion, but ultimately it lies with the filing city attorney or deputy attorney to decide whether they'll file animal cruelty charges. And you're right, it shouldn't come down to the suffering. And in this case, it's simple. Very simple. He killed a dog, end of story, he should be charged and let a jury play it out.
BANFIELD: OK. More coming up, so hold those thoughts for a moment.
And this one, I've been waiting for this all morning. A person who represents the best and the worst of baseball. One of the greatest hitters of all-time was accused of betting on his own team. You know who I'm talking about. Pete Rose. And now Pete Rose is talking about A-Rod. Yeah, Alex Rodriguez, and his performance enhancing drugs and the status of the game and the all-important legacy. Pete Rose is going to talk to me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: The Yankees' slugger known as A-Rod now suspended for 211 baseball games through the 2014 season. In just a few hours after major league baseball took that action, Alex Rodriguez was back in a Yankees uniform in a game in Chicago. But the welcome that he got, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BOOING)
ANNOUNCER: Alex Rodriguez.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That's a lot of booing. Didn't seem to faze him, though. He got a hit. You will probably know by now, from all the coverage of this man, that he's one of 13 suspended players, all because of performance enhancing drugs. 12 of the 13 players accepted 50-game suspensions, losing their pay, but A-Rod is the only one who decided to appeal the decision. And that means he will likely play the rest of the season, despite how the people are reacting.
Former Cincinnati Reds baseball great, Pete Rose, knows firsthand the highs of being a beloved baseball star, and then the humiliation of being banned for life for betting on baseball. All of this while he was the Reds' manager. He joins me now live on the phone from Las Vegas.
Mr. Rose, thank you so much for agreeing to speak out on this today. I want to get your initial reaction to what transpired yesterday --
PETE ROSE, FORMER CINCINNATI REDS BASEBALL PLAYER & MANAGER (voice- over): First of all, I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio.
BANFIELD: Oh, I'm sorry.
ROSE: That's OK. And secondly, I don't think anything (INAUDIBLE) yesterday. And if you watched it on TV, which you probably did, there was a lot of Yankee fans standing up clapping. And he chose to appeal it. He don't think he deserves 207 games when Ryan Bron got 65 games. That's probably why he appealed it. And if he loses the appeal, it could be the end of his career, because he won't be able to come back to -- he's starting to be almost 41 years old. And it's hard for a 40-year-old, a 39-year-old to miss a year and a half or so, then come back and be the type of player that they expect you to be, making all that money. So that's probably why he appealed, because he's fighting for his life, which he said last night, I think he actually meant, he's fighting for his baseball life, which is true. He made mistakes --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: So let me ask you this.
ROSE: Yeah, go ahead.
BANFIELD: You mentioned to a reporter, I think with the associated press, look, A-Rod screwed up, there's no question about it, but if there's a lesson to be learned, if you screw up and do something, don't lie about it, come clean. I eventually came clean, but it was too late.
ROSE: You're right.
BANFIELD: So this appeal, isn't that essentially not coming clean and continuing to live out this lay?
ROSE: Well, I agree with you. I made that mistake back in 1989, for anybody listening to you and I talking right now, if you're confronted with a controversy or something you did wrong, don't lie. Come forward as quickly as you possibly can and get it behind you. And you know, a lot of these guys who were suspended yesterday, now they come out and said, I made a mistake, but I don't know if any of them ever said, I used PEDs. I don't know if I heard any of the players suspended say, I took drugs and it was wrong. They just said, I made mistakes. You know, I made mistakes too. Everyone's got a different way of answering the question. You're absolutely right. Don't lie. Come forward as quickly as you possibly can. And to be honest with you, I would like to be looking for baseball, going around to these baseball camps and telling my story and it's got to wake people up, as far as if you get caught, it can be a lifelong situation.
BANFIELD: And exactly my next point. The former commissioner said, Pete Rose is all about deterrent and it's totally effective. Vincent said, no one in baseball gambles and it's all because Rose. We made it clear if you touch the third rail, you die and you don't come back. Does somebody need to be the Pete Rose of performance enhancing drugs and is that somebody A-Rod?
ROSE: Just because you suspend me for life and keep the suspension on, that's to say no one will ever gamble. You give A-Rod life instead of 200 and some games, no one will ever take steroids. Vincent's consistent with what he says, and he's one of those guys that lives in America but never gives anybody a second chance. That's another thing. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody makes mistake. We're talking about a guy right now, if I'm not mistaken, is the only guy in the history of the world to be fired as commissioner of baseball. Now, you know, you work for the owner, it's a glamorous job. You've got to be pretty bad to be fired from the owners of baseball as commissioner of baseball. So I don't think anything that Vincent says is serious, because he's still living in the past and this is America. You make your mistakes, you take responsibility for it. Most people, most people will give you a second chance. He's just one of those guys that won't.
BANFIELD: So, Pete, you're one of these guys who, you kept it quiet for a long time, you didn't come forward about the cheating, and then you did, about the gambling. And then you did. And then you got smacked for life. And yet that's not happening to some of these cheaters who get all these remarkable, you know, glories and records and yet they don't suffer the same thing -- can you still with me until after the break? Have you got a moment?
ROSE: Well, here's something --
BANFIELD: Hold your thought. I have to get a break in, but I want to ask you about this after the break, if you can stay with me.
ROSE: OK, OK.
BANFIELD: Awesome. Thank you, Pete.
After that break, was he unfairly punished where has these new guys are not? It's in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We're back live and I'm so happy to be joined on the telephone by Pete Rose, baseball's all-time great. He is live in Cincinnati right now, also knows a thing or two about suffering through a very public ordeal in baseball after wrongdoings like A-Rod is doing.
So before the break, Pete, I wanted to talk to you about this issue of the punishments that are being handed down to all these dope-taking cheaters in baseball now. Compared to the punishment that was handed down to you. You said to the soap, it's like I'm Al Capone or something. But guys are starting to come back to my side now, because they see what's happening in baseball. Guys are doing things that alter records. They get 65 games, I got 24 years. And that brings me back to that question I just asked you. You may not like Faye Vincent, but he did say, if you hand down a punishment like we did to Pete Rose, it becomes a third rail, no one gambles on baseball. So don't we need to do the same thing to someone like an A-Rod so that drugs become the third rail?
ROSE: Well, I understand what you're saying, but I just don't believe that. I just don't believe you can use one guy as an example. I mean, if you think that because A-Rod's going to get a life suspension, you've got to go within the rules. OK? And most of your listeners, I don't even know if you understand, OK? I was not -- I was not suspended from baseball for betting on baseball, OK? I have a signed agreement from the commissioner's office that there's no finding that I bet on baseball, OK? I did not bet on baseball, as far as the eyes of the commissioner, when I signed that deal.
BANFIELD: Oh, I'm so confused -- but you agreed when fans ask you to sign baseballs, that you'll even sign with the inscription, "I'm sorry I bet on baseball."
ROSE: Well, that's what people want. I just do what people want. I admitted I bet on baseball later, OK, so everybody knows that I bet on baseball, but my point is, I didn't get suspended from baseball for betting on baseball. It was undesirables. And that's what the record shows. So, you know, you're not making an example out of me when I get a life suspension, and as Faye Vincent was saying, he got a life suspension for betting on baseball. I did not. I did not get a life suspension for betting on baseball. Do you understand what I'm saying?
BANFIELD: I gotcha. I want to ask you this, I know this is a long time ago, when you were playing baseball, but did you ever use performance enhancing drugs?
ROSE: No, no. I don't know of anybody in our clubhouse being with the big red machine or my five years in Philadelphia that ever messed with PEDs, at least to my knowledge.
BANFIELD: What about in the rest of the league, did you know about it going on while you were playing?
ROSE: No, because I never worried about what was going on in the rest of the league. But there, again, nobody has ever been, you know, accused of making steroids -- doing steroids back in the '60s, '70s, '80s. To my knowledge. And I retired as a player in '86. So that's the way I can answer that question. I can't speak for all 700 players that were playing in the national league when I played.
BANFIELD: Pete Rose, it's great to talk to you.
ROSE: Nobody in the Reds, nobody in the Reds, to my knowledge, and nobody in the Phillies, that I ever heard of, took steroids.
BANFIELD: Well, I do appreciate you telling us that. And I appreciate that you say that it's all about coming clean and telling the truth. I'm glad that you're on with us today, especially at this pretty remarkable time.
Pete, thank you.
ROSE: You have a great day. BANFIELD: So moving on to our other next story, if you weigh too much, can you be fired? You'd probably say that's workplace discrimination, right? Not according to one judge, not necessarily. And our legal team is going to explain this one, why could it really happen and be completely legal?
First, though, jurors are also deciding a very important case. James "Whitey" Bulger's fate. The most famed mobster charged with murder, racketeering, conspiracy. We'll take you live to Boston, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We're officially in a verdict watch right now. All of this because of the trial of mob boss James Whitey Bulger. The jury just started their deliberations. A short time ago this happened after a passionate closing argument yesterday. Prosecution blasting him as a murderous thug terrorizing Boston for years.
Deborah Feyerick has been watching every detail of this dramatic and explosive trial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James Bulger came face-to-face can members of his underworld, men he had not seen in over two decades brought in to testify against him. Bookies like Dick O'Brien talked about the thousand of dollars he had to pay Bulger in so-called weekly rent payments to stay in business. And drug traffickers like William Linholm testified Bulger and his cronies put a loaded gun to his head before extorting a quarter million dollars for a piece of the business.
And it was Bulger's former partners who took center stage, key eyewitness to the crimes they committed together or shared stories about after. Hitman John Martorano implicated Bulger in 13 murders, describing his crime boss firing a machine gun at a victim he'd lured to a phone booth. Mob enforcer Kevin Weeks saw him strangle a woman with his bare hands, the girl's eyes rolling into her head as her lips turned blue.
Bulger's long-time crime partner, Stephen "The Rifleman" Flemmi, described the perverse high Bulger seemed to get after torturing and killing several, one of whom begged for a bullet to the head after Bulger failed to strangle the man with a thick rope.
Yet what bothered Bulger most were not claims he was a killer, a criminal, or extortionist. What bothered him was when Flemmi testified that, without doubt, both he and Bulger were FBI informants -- the worst possible thing someone from South Boston could be.
Bulger's criminal enterprise grew because of government corruption. A key prosecutor, FBI agents, state troopers all on Bulger's payroll providing information on rivals and compromising official investigations. Bulger lost his temper several times when called an informant but otherwise the men he had known so well, he treated as if they were dead to him. Bulger's lawyers mounted a small defense with respect to most of the murders. They focused instead on refuting the idea Bulger was an informant, and they tried to cast doubt on Bulger's role in killing the two women. Defense lawyers suggested in the end it wasn't about finding Bulger not guilty but holding the government accountable for FBI corruption nearly two decades ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (on camera): This is the verdict sheet the jury will consider. Count one, the racketeering conspiracy charge. The rest deal with the murders and extortion. Each count has a name next to it. They're putting the charge with a name and face. Some of the family members of the victims have been in court. They are waiting eagerly for justice to bring this 20-decade rein of terror to a close -- Ashleigh?
BANFIELD: I saw that jury form, pages and pages or racketeering.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Takes a while to read it especially in the wind.
Deborah Feyerick for us live. Thank you for that great reporting.
Coming up, some ladies went to court when they got tired of daily weigh ins. A judge said tough luck. Weigh in or get out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: In Utah, the saga of a beauty queen gone bad. 18-year-old miss river ton better known as Kendra Gill is out of jail after being arrested for throwing homemade bombs out of car. The good news is nobody was hurt.
Can you be too big to be a cocktail waitress in a casino? In New Jersey, the answer is yes. A judge has ruled in favor of the Borgato Casino. All of this was brought by some of the workers there. They decided to sue for weight discrimination. They said they were forced to do weigh-ins and could be disciplined if they gained more than 7 percent of their body weight. They did sign contracts that was OK. The weird part is the men don't have to do any weigh-ins. Stay tuned for something that may come out of that like appeal or not.
I'm out of time and I'm glad I didn't sign a contract like that.
AROUND THE WORLD is coming at you next.
