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Hotshot Widow Challenges City; Two More Indicted In Boston Bombing Case; Dr. Gupta: I Was Wrong About Marijuana; U.S. Reports Malaria Vaccine Breakthrough; DiCaprio Hovers Over Mediterranean; NYT: NSA Spying More Pervasive; Transplant Surgeon's Special Bond

Aired August 08, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It has now been more than a month since 19 families lost their loved ones in a wildfire. They were an elite group of firefighters. They were known as the Hotshots. They were overtaken by the blaze northwest of Phoenix. The only survivor of that Hotshot crew, Brendan McDonough, talked to ABC News about losing the men he calls his brothers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRENDAN MCDONOUGH, GRANITE MOUNTAIN HOTSHOTS SURVIVOR: I asked a million times, why am I sitting here and why isn't someone else? Why aren't they sitting here with me? And I was still with our vehicles in one of the buggies and I can hear -- whoever didn't bring their phone, I could hear phones ringing, knowing that it was their wives, their family. I sunk, sunk into my seat. I sunk into myself. I couldn't think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now one of the victim's widows is also speaking out. She says she's being denied the city's lifetime benefits she needs to raise her four children. Juliann Ashcraft, widow of Andrew Ashcraft, spoke with CNN's Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIANN ASHCRAFT, WIDOW OF HOTSHOT FIREFIGHTER: I mentioned to the HR Department that my husband did work full time. You know, that my kids and I sent him off to work 12 months a year for the city of Prescott. Her response to me was that it must be a marriage issue. That perhaps we had bad communication in our marriage, which is why I did not understand his employment status.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So seasonal says the city of Prescott, Arizona. Not full time. Families of the six firefighters deemed as full time are entitled to lifetime salaries and benefits.

Just into us here at CNN, the two men accused of helping the suspected Boston bombers after the attack have been indicted. Joe Johns is live in Washington with the news. Joe, remind us. These are the two 19- year-olds who according to police, right, helped toss fireworks into backpacks and everything else into Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, right?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's certainly what they're alleging and what they've alleged all along, Brooke. A federal grand jury today returning a two count indictment against these two men previously charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice in the Boston marathon bombing investigation as well as obstruction of justice.

Dias Kadyrbayev and Azamat Tazhayakov are both 19 years old from Kazakhstan. They were living in New Bedford on student visas, charged, as I said, with obstruction of justice and conspiracy in the bombing investigation. This indictment alleges that on the evening of April 18th this year, the FBI posted pictures of the two Boston bombing suspects and Kadyrbayev got a text message from Dzhokhar Tsarnaev suggesting he go to his room and take what's there, you remember.

The indictment alleges they took a laptop computer and a backpack containing fireworks, brought them to their apartment in New Bedford. Later that night they say the men threw the backpack in a trash dumpster. There's a third friend we talked about earlier this year, 19-year-old American Robel Filipos.

He was arrested for allegedly lying to investigators in the days after the bombing. He wasn't indicted so far. Apparently negotiations are going on with him. He was released on $100,000 bail and put under strict house arrest. Brooke, these guys are facing some tough time if they get convicted.

BALDWIN: Yes. It sounds like possibly 20 years on obstruction of justice. Five years for the conspiracy counts for these two 19-year- olds. Joe Johns, thank you very much.

Weed. Pot. Reefer, whatever you want to call it. Marijuana has split the nation. And for years CNN's own Sanjay Gupta has been one of the most vocal detractors and outspoken opponent of medical marijuana, but then something changed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meet 19-year-old Chaz Moore. He uses many different strains of marijuana, many of them high in CBD to treat his rare disorder of the diaphragm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My abs look like lock up.

GUPTA: That's why he's talking this way, almost speaking in hiccups, like he can't catch his breath. It's called myoclonus diaphragmatic flutter.

(on camera): This fluttering here, it's annoying, but it becomes painful pretty quickly I imagine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. After, like, 15, 20 minutes is where I can, like, start to really feel it.

GUPTA (voice-over): He's about to show me how the marijuana works. He's been convulsing now for 7 minutes.

(on camera): How quickly do you expect this to work?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within, like, the first 5 minutes. And I'm done.

GUPTA: That's it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it.

GUPTA (voice-over): It was actually less than a minute.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Just like that, arguably the most well known neurosurgeon in America, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, had a change of heart.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: I think, you know, we've been terribly and systemically misled in this country for some time. I did part of that misleading. You know, if you look at all the papers that are written in the United States about marijuana, the vast majority of them are about the harm. We fund studies on harm. We don't fund studies on benefit nearly as much.

So it gives a distorted picture. You know, I didn't look far enough. I didn't look deep enough. I didn't look at labs in other countries doing incredible research. I didn't listen to the chorus of patients that said not only does marijuana work for me. It's the only thing that works for me. I took the DEA at their word when they said it's a Schedule 1 substance and has no medical applications. There was no scientific basis for them to say that.

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN LIVE": When New York Mayor Bloomberg was quoted as saying medical marijuana is the greatest hoax of all time, what do you say to him?

GUPTA: I'm surprised. I mean, I follow a lot of the mayor's comments quite closely. I listen to those comments as well. As part of those same comments he was saying that the potency of marijuana has gone up. That is true. It has gone up probably over the last several years. I urge him to look at the scientific papers. I was just looking at them again in preparation for your show. The science is there. This isn't anecdotal. This isn't in the realm of conjecture anymore. I mean, for a long time we just ignored these papers. But this was a drug that was, you know, used for thousands of years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Sanjay's new found support for the use of weed, this shocking turnaround, sparking a fiery debate now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOWARD SAMUELS, FORMER ADDICT: The vast majority of people that use weed. Use it to get loaded. They use it to get high. Look, I'm not here to say that it's worse than alcohol. Of course, it's not worse than alcohol. But why in the world would we legalize another drug so our nation's youth have another substance to abuse and medicate their feelings with?

You know, this is, to me, the issue. We don't want to go from one extreme, reefer madness, which we know is a total exaggeration, but we don't want to go to the other extreme where we legalize this drug and endanger so many of our young people.

GUPTA: OK. Look, it can be difficult to sort of stratify the legitimate patients who have use for cannabis not only as a medication, but as the only medication for their suffering. And as the doctor says, people who just want to get loaded or get high. That's true.

MORGAN: If it's no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco, why shouldn't it be legalized? Isn't there an inconsistency in government policy?

GUPTA: I think so. Let me take it a step further than that. I think it's irresponsible of the medical community not to offer this as an alternative.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: You have to watch Sanjay on Sunday. He digs into the highs and lows of weed, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Do not miss that.

Coming up next, this is the coolest water sport I've never tried but now really, really want to. It's called fly boarding. You will see Leo Dicaprio in action.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Breaking now on CNN, huge news in the medical field especially when it comes to troops serving overseas, many of whom get malaria. Barbara Starr joins me now. Barbara, this is a big breakthrough. Tell me why.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: This is a big deal, Brooke. The U.S. Navy announcing a short time ago along with the federal government and the medical industry they have developed what they believe is the first ever complete vaccine against malaria. Now, it is in the development stages. They are working on it. But the first trials they have completed have shown 100 percent protection against malaria.

They will have to work on this. They will have to get it into a shape that it can be administered to patients or troops in the field. Why is this so huge? Well, of course, as you can well imagine, U.S. troops travel all over the world especially Navy troops to many areas where there is malaria.

Malaria is a killer around the world. A 3.3 billion people live in areas where they are at the risk of getting malaria around the world. There were 219 million cases of malaria in 2010 alone. About 660,000 people around the world lost their lives due to malaria. So this is a massive development. If they can get 100 percent protection with this vaccine, it may not be in the field for a few years, but if they can really get it into the field, it will change life in so many places.

BALDWIN: Huge. I have a dear friend who has been in the hospital. This is the second time with malaria. He lives in Africa. So it's troops and its volunteers as well. Big, big news. Barbara Starr, thank you.

The sweet life of an A-list movie star, take a look at this photo. This is my favorite photo of the day. Gravity defying photo shows actor, Leonardo Dicaprio on vacation in the Mediterranean. Check out what he's got strapped on his feet. It's called a fly board. It's kind of like a skateboard for the ocean. It uses powerful jets to hover above the water.

Chad Myers and I are dying to try this out at least I am. So how does this work? You see the water shooting out. Show the picture again. It's a hose?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: There's a hose. Not a hoax, a hose, a hose that's coming out of the water. It's coming out of the back of a real jet ski. The Jet Ski throttles up. The jet goes out of the Jet Ski, into the hose, threw the boots and shoots him up out of the water. Now Tony Garm was in the area, the model. So I think he was just trying to show off a little bit.

BALDWIN: Victoria's Secret model, of course, you had to go there. You're such a dude.

MYERS: I would be showing off, too, of course. These things go pretty fast. You can dive under water with them. I've seen some video where people were getting pretty close to the coral reef, which seems at this speed a little bit dangerous.

BALDWIN: If you choose to get on the Googles, there are many videos of fly boarding you can see. Here we go. It's almost like you're a dolphin spinning around, diving, flipping, these guys aren't wearing helmets, though.

MYERS: There's the movie "Splash" in here somewhere, just a different kind of splash. They're not wearing helmets. Leonardo was and a life jacket, too.

BALDWIN: Do we know how much this cost?

MYERS: It's $6,000. Plus you've got to have the Jet Ski.

BALDWIN: What?

MYERS: It's not free. You can rent this thing.

BALDWIN: We can all dream.

MYERS: Or you can actually go out to Colorado. There are companies that will do it. Many lakes now have this.

BALDWIN: We can dream, six grand. Chad Myers, thank you, fly boarding.

Coming up, a new report from the "New York Times," see this, this morning? It says the NSA is tracking all messages into and out of the United States. We're going to break that down with our legal panel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: If you text or e-mail someone overseas, there is a good chance the government is combing through what you've written. Today's "New York Times" first reported today that the government spying is possibly more pervasive than we actually thought. The "times" says NSA computers are searching texts and e m-mails going in and out of the country.

Looking for certain words, information on suspected terrorists. The government's already acknowledged it monitors suspect communications, but according to "The New York Times," most every text or e-mail that crosses the U.S. border is searched for key words.

That said, joining me now from New York, CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin and from Los Angeles, Darren Kavinoky. So, Sunny, let me just add one more thing. This is what we just got from Barbara Starr from the Pentagon, from a source close to the program. It also allows collection and monitoring of content based upon these two things.

It's about a location overseas that's already identified as being of interest. Two, triggers key words like a foreign e-mail address or words in that content. That said, if the "Times" has this whole story right, how much bigger than we thought is the government's spying program?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALSYT: You know, I think it's unclear, quite frankly. We've been talking about this issue for several years, what, maybe about four or five years. It's unclear what the legal analysis is at this point. We don't really know whether or not this is bulk collection, whether or not they're looking at it sort of retroactively, almost. Are they studying the information? Do they get it in bulk and then look at last year's and compare it to this year's?

We really don't know. I think really the issue here is, of course, people are concerned about their privacy rights. Of course, they're concerned their constitutional rights are being -- are trampled on. But the other thing you have to balance that against is, is this a minimal burden to protect our country from terrorism? So I think that's really a balancing act. Again, we don't really know because the government hasn't told us what the legal basis is for allowing this.

DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We should just trust them! BALDWIN: Right. I hear you laughing, Darren. We hear from folks who are in the know saying absolutely it thwarted terrorist attacks. At the same time, Congress has said, show me. I haven't seen that.

KAVINOKY: Right. I think like so much, well intentioned, and the question is going to be how is it in the execution because if you're like me, if you've gotten nothing to hide, my e-mails, my texts, they're pretty boring stuff. Here's the real problem. We don't know where this ends. We know that in the policies that we're targeting people that are on foreign shores. But we have these policies that say, well, we may be targeting them and we need to target at least one participant who's not in the United States, but what we really want is we want the juicy stuff on the people that are in the United States.

So we're creating these policies that allow us to circumvent and narrowly tailor it so we can get to the good stuff that we want without a warrant. Because generally speaking, when we're going to be tapping into people that are in the United States, we need a warrant. So at the end of this, Brooke, the concern is does this put us on a slippery slope where people's privacy rights, where their constitutional rights, get eroded? And we really don't have all the information. That's the scary part.

BALDWIN: You know, we heard from the president speaking publicly about this after this whole Ed Snowden story broke. Saying, at least we're having this conversation. This is an intelligent conversation to be having about privacy rights and that he is open to realistic changes. What changes, Darren, I'm just going to go back to you, what changes would you like to see to these surveillance programs that we've been learning about?

KAVINOKY: Yes. It starts with this much transparency as can be had without thwarting the fundamental mission, which is discovering terrorism, right? This is all about protecting folks and keeping them safe.

BALDWIN: Right.

KAVINOKY: But it can't be done with these super secret meetings and super secret policies. And "The New York Times" article really points that out that a lot of the stuff is on the super secret.

BALDWIN: OK.

HOSTIN: Well, it's supposed to be super secret because it's surveillance.

BALDWIN: Right. That's the point.

HOSTIN: Right. I think we want transparency. Again, I think as Americans we also -- and as lawyers, of course, we have to think about the balancing test. Yes, there are constitutional rights and privacy rights. But is it, perhaps, a minimal burden to bear when you're talking about our right to protection ourselves?

BALDWIN: Got to leave it there. See you next hour, Darren Kavinoky and Sunny Hostin. I know we can go on. Thank you both very much.

Coming up, stunning video out of China, look at this, bus crash and the driver, wait for it, disappears, is basically sucked out of the window. We'll tell you this whole story and they're OK. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Take a look at this. This is China. A driver was thrown out of a window after a truck slammed into a tour bus full of people. This accident, this happened Friday, it was so incredibly powerful. The passengers, you see them tossed in their seats. You see the driver going out the window as well, 23 people were hurt. They're OK. The driver I have to tell you of the speeding truck was killed. But the driver of this bus, he survived, amazing. Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A transplant surgeon has a very special bond with her patients. Chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to this week's "Human Factor."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): As a transplant surgeon, Silke Niederhaus has transplanted more than 100 kidneys. It's what she's wanted to do for as long as she can remember.

SILKE NIEDERHAUS, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND MEDICAL CENTER: I was interested in being a doctor at age 4.

GUPTA: By the time she was 8, Niederhaus who grew up in Germany was in the fight for her life.

NIEDERHAUS: I started having blood in my urine. We couldn't figure out why. It came on so acutely all of a sudden.

GUPTA: She was diagnosed with a relatively common kidney disease that caused severe inflammation.

NIEDERHAUS: By the time I was 11, in March I had to start on dialysis.

GUPTA: Nine months later, she received a new kidney and it worked immediately at first.

NIEDERHAUS: About a week later, I had my first rejection episode.

GUPTA: And then a second, and a third, all of it within a month.

NIEDERHAUS: They said this kidney's had so many rejections, it will probably never work.

GUPTA: On average, a donor kidney lasts about ten years and doctors gave her kidney a 50/50 chance to last one. But Niederhaus was not about to give up. She became the first child to try an experimental drug, and it worked. NIEDERHAUS: I had something that I wanted to do. You know, that was to be a transplant surgeon.

GUPTA: After high school, Niederhaus and her family moved to the United States so she could go to medical school and pursue that dream. Now she shares her own story with her patients.

NIEDERHAUS: The kidney was absolutely not working at a few points in time and I walked away with 24 years later excellent kidney function.

GUPTA: That allowed her to fulfill another dream, which was to have a baby with her husband, John. Transplant patients typically have high risk pregnancies. She did develop anemia and high blood pressure, but in June, Noah was born. He was early due to complications, but he was healthy.

NIEDERHAUS: If you've had a goal all your life and then something gets in your way, you know, set yourself a goal. Work towards that goal. Then you'll get there. Then you have something that doesn't let you give up because you have something to look forward to beyond that.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)