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Discrimination And Profiling Being Snuffed Out Daily In Communities; Murder Suspect on the Run with Teen; Extreme Flood Risk for 3 States; Usher Keeps the Kids

Aired August 10, 2013 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to be back on the air. I was away last weekend so I could not talk about this. So everyone sit down and let's talk. Because for a long time and especially around the Trayvon Martin case, everyone from the president to Trayvon's parents have said we need to talk more honestly and openly about race in this country. Then when we do, some people go berserk saying, no, that is not the conversation we want to have.

Well, that's not being open, nor honest, is it? If we're going to have those conversations, then we need to address all the issues that go with it. And part of that, the very first part, is personal responsibility. Black folks, you cannot say that you own no part in some of the ills that plague our communities just as all white people can't say they have no responsibility either. It's not honest and it's not constructive. You cannot control the conversation nor call people names like racist because they may not share your view. Nor can you constantly cast blame because then no one listens and nothing gets accomplished.

And more importantly, beyond discrimination, and beyond profiling, more lives are being snuffed out daily in our communities when our kids are shooting each other. It is a crisis. We are in a crisis. It is time now for no talking points.

So tonight, no more excuses. In my last "no talking points" segment I suggested five things some of the black community could use to fix some of our own problems. Dress appropriately. Stop using the "n" word. Respect where you live. Finish school. And plan for a child or stop having them out of wedlock. These are by no means cures for racism or bigotry. Yet the response was so overwhelming I was even asked about it on "the View."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: What I was saying was not how you end racism. I was saying self-empowerment. How you help yourself because you have to -- there are issues in the African-American community that go beyond white people. Right? You can fix things yourself. And those are things that we should do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, to suggest that that conversation was about how to end racism is disingenuous at the very least and the deflection. Because there are always things that we can do to help improve our own condition as individuals or a group.

So, I'm not going to make excuses by deflecting attention to a false narrative or equivalent. Oh, well white people do this! I didn't do that last time on this subject and now two weeks later people are still talking about it. Good. Mission accomplished.

Russell Simmons, the hip hop mogul, even wrote me an open letter. And today I wrote him one back. I'm going to get to that in a second.

Most people understood what I meant and understand the concept of personal responsibility, personal determination, self-knowledge. But for those who don't, I will let Dr. King explain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. ACTIVIST: I have come here tonight and plead with you. Believe in yourself and believe that you are somebody. I said to the group last night nobody else can do this for us. No document can do this for us. No emancipation proclamation can do this for us. No (INAUDIBLE) civil rights field can do this for us. If the Negro is to be free he must move down to the inner resources of his own soul and sign with a pen and ink of self-assertive manhood his own emancipation proclamation!

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Again, not a lesson on fixing, changing, or ending racism. The message is, self-awareness and getting your mind right. Though a little bit more radical, Malcolm X had the same message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MALCOLM X, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: The desegregation decisions and other type of legislation and Supreme Court decision depends upon changing the white man's mind. The honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that our own mind has to be changed. We have to change our mind about ourselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In what way?

MALCOLM X: Well, so he teaches us the importance of moral reformation, knowledge of self. And for instance, that the average so- called Negro, he doesn't think that he can go into business and provide jobs for himself and because of this thinks he can only get a job from the white man or he can only get clothes from the white man or can only get food from the white man.

We follow the honorable Elijah Muhammad who taught that the same thing that the white man has done for himself and his kind, if our people could be -- if we could be cured, of our slave mentality that was indoctrinated into us during slavery we would realize that just as the white man can do these things for himself and his kind, we can get together in unity and harmony and do the same thing for ourselves and our kind. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: No racism fixed there or blame. Just a suggestion on how to combat slave mentality. So, while you might think my five points are too simple, some of you, some of the world's most powerful people don't and said it more bluntly than I did. Here's your first lady.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: When it comes to getting an education, too many of our young people just can't be bothered. Today, instead of walking miles every day to school, they are sitting on couches for hours playing video games, watching TV. Instead of dreaming of being a teacher or a lawyer or business leader, they're fantasizing about being a balers or rapper. As my husband has said often, please, stand up and reject the slander that says a black child with a book is trying to act white. Reject that.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And then a more forceful tone at a black college commencement address, here is her husband, the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We know that too many young men in our community continue to make bad choices. And I have to say, growing up, I made quite a few myself. Sometimes I wrote off my own failings as just another example of the world trying to keep a black man down. I had a tendency sometimes to make excuses for me not doing the right thing. But, one of the things that all of you have learned over the last four years is there's no longer any room for excuses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And even if you do all of the right things, and make a billion dollars like Oprah, you will probably still face discrimination. Welcome to life.

However, the idea that discipline, respect, commitment, and education mean acting white is just ludicrous. Then, what is acting black? Bill Cosby has a lot to say about that mindset and how to fix it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, ACTOR, COMEDIAN: The more we see it in the neighborhoods, the more we will accept it that we can't help it. And what we need to do is give people more of a confidence that they can, they must realize that the revolution is in their apartment now. The revolution is in their house, their neighborhood, and then they can fight strongly, clearly the systemic and institutional racism.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: And that brings me to Russell Simmons.

Russell, I'm glad you wrote the letter. Honestly I really am. Initially though I wasn't even going to respond to your letter, not because I think you completely missed the point, not because, like many of the other critics I thought you were just using the occasion as a promotion for one of your businesses, your Web site, but I wasn't going to address it because, quite honestly, it was hard to take you and it seriously after you called me derogatory names like slave on Twitter. That accomplishes nothing especially when lives are at stake.

That said, I'm going to respond and I'm going to take the high road at the same time by not calling you names and simply addressing your points. And just to be clear before I start here I have asked you on this program on CNN several times to discuss the issues I have addressed. I have invited you again tonight but you declined again. That is fine. But don't throw stones and hide your hand.

Russell Simmons, we are in a crisis right now and you of all people need to understand what I'm saying and understand what you're doing. Because of what you do and who you are, you have much more influence on young people of all races than I do.

So, first. You say I sound like conservative hosts or pulling strings writing, you write this, conservatives love when we blame ourselves for the conditions that have destroyed the fabric of the black community.

My response is, you should take that up with a conservative or a liberal or someone who is concerned about political affiliation in this particular situation. That does not save lives. It shouldn't matter if someone is black, white, brown, purple, green, democrat, or Republican. If the truth they speak is saving lives, then no matter their intentions or background, we should listen, attack the problem, not the messenger.

You also write, I can't accept that you would single out black teenagers as the cause of their own demise because they don't speak the King's English or where belts around their waist bands.

That really makes me question whether you even watch the segment or even wrote the letter yourself because I never blamed anyone for their own demise. I never pinned it on any teenagers, on anybody. Nor did I mention the King's English. I did, however, mention the "n" word.

You also wrote, young people sagging their pants today is no different than young people rocking afros or platform shoes in the '60s and '70s.

Russell, afros came out of the struggle of the after American civil rights movement. The dashiki is a traditional form of African dress.

Sagging, Russell, the hip hop community which you helped established, dropped the G on the word so that spelled backwards the word reads n- i-g-g-a-s. It came from Riker's island in New York, one of the largest attention centers in the U.S. It was originally called wearing your pants Riker's style.

When you went in you turned in your belt, your shoe laces, and the only shirt the jail provided was a white double XXL-shirt. Are you equating dressing like a criminal to African pride? Are you saying it is OK to perpetuate the negative stereotype of young, black men as convicts, criminals, prisoners? How does that enhance their lives or society as a whole?

I do give you, Russell Simmons, and some of the hip hop and rap community credit for trying to clean up your act. Some like J. Cole and Kanye West are now rapping about social issues like the prison industrial complex. More of that, please. We welcome that. Everyone does. But you're not off the hook.

Finally, you write in part, I want the black kids to grow up and be like you. I want them to know that their imagination is God inside of them. Russell, I really appreciate that, but I don't want black kids or kids of any race to be just like me. I want them to grow up to be better than me. That's what my parents wanted for me. And their parents wanted for them. And as we approach the 50th anniversary of the march on Washington, we should all realize that it's what those brave men and women who risked their lives for our freedom and equality wanted for us. They fought for us and generations to come to be better than them, not to be illiterate or deadbeat dads or criminals. We must stop the blame for things that we can change ourselves and, again, as the first African-American president of the United States says, no more excuses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination. And, moreover, you have to remember that whatever you've gone through, it pales in comparison to the hardships previous generations endured, and they overcame them, and if they overcame them, you can overcome them, too.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Thank you, Mr. President. That's tonight's "No Talking Points."

Up next the conversation continues with five suggestions for white people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's continue the conversation now. My five tips for African-Americans prompted strong reactions even some outrage, anger, and shock.

Our next guest has five tips for white people to improve race relations or improve their conditions. So, anti-racist activist and author Tim Wise joins us now from Nashville.

Tim, man, I got a scathing e-mail from you. Why were you so mad at me?

TIME WISE, ANTI-RACISM, ACTIVIST, WRITER: I wasn't mad at you, man. I just think the words Bill O'Reilly didn't go far enough should never be uttered by anyone in this country let alone you. But you know, that was my beef.

LEMON: Well, my thing is that there are many things that Bill O'Reilly and I disagree on but this happens to be one subject where we agree on a few things. And so, don't -- as I said don't shoot the messenger. Attack the message. Fix the message.

So, listen. You have been on this program. I did Tim think this was the last conversation we were going to have about race? And you had been on this program 23 times since 2009 and that's the time that our booking department alerted you not the times where I called you and personally asked you to be on the show.

WISE: Right.

LEMON: And we have had many conversations about race.

WISE: Sure.

LEMON: Run the gamut. So this is -- so, now let's have this conversation since people were, you know, like hey. What about -- why don't you talk about what white people can do? You say, stop dodging the issue by saying things like slavery was a long time ago. Get over it. Why?

WISE: Right. Well that's the operative deflection, right, the idea when we are talking about racism we are automatically talking about the period of enslavement. But when black and brown folks are talking about racism, they are talking about now. They are talking about Stop and Frisk. They are talking racial profiling, and two million cases of housing discrimination a year. Now even though we have fair housing laws.

So, I think when white folks do this sort of like that was a long time ago it is inaccurate, it is disingenuous and it is really sort of inconsistent because frankly, we love the past when it makes us feel good. That is what July 4th is. That's what those fireworks are. The American Revolution happened a really long time ago. White folks aren't over that yet. So, it seems to me we ought to at least understand history does matter and it continues into the present.

LEMON: OK. I know this is your life's work but I want to get through this. I only have a certain amount of time. To get to all five of them, you said assume people know their own lives better than you do. In other words, black folks aren't crazy when they say they get profiled. I had that argument. I'm sure you remember with a conservative radio host recently. Go ahead.

WISE: Absolutely. That one is self-explanatory.

LEMON: OK. All right. Good. Stop saying you have a black friend as a get out of racism free card. WISE: Right. I mean, the reality is, first of all, we say that. We are often times lying. We don't really. But more importantly, even if we have people of color in our lives it would be like a straight man saying that he can't be sexist because he has a wife. Like who would make that argument, right? Just because you have people who are close to you in a marginalized group doesn't mean that you don't carry any prejudice in the larger society. So that's not a get out of racism free card. And that is just not a legitimate response to the claim of racial bias.

LEMON: Confront the long legacy of white denial when it comes to racism.

WISE: Yes. This is a really big one. You know, the reality is I understand why white folks in 2013 might not see the problem. But what's really scary is if you go back to 1962-1963 when we were still an apartheid country before civil rights laws had been passed between 2/3 and 90 percent of white Americans in gallop polls at that time said that they thought black folks still had equal treatment in housing, employment, and schools.

So, I guess my challenge to white folks is, what does it say that even when racism was blatant we didn't see the problem? And what is that mean for us now? If we didn't see it when it was blatant and we were wrong, and black and brown folks saw it and they were right, what makes us think that suddenly we have become really perceptive and they've lost their minds? That seems totally irrational to me.

LEMON: Stop using statistics incorrectly to justify prejudice. I think that one of those is talking about we don't say white on white crime but we say black on black crime.

WISE: Right.

LEMON: Ant then, when you actually look at overall violent crime in the U.S. is coming down. It is still a crisis especially in minority communities. It is still crisis. People are still killing each other. But you said stop using statistics incorrectly.

WISE: Right. What I mean by that is this. You know, people have tried to rationalize racial profiling and Stop and Frisk in New York, for instance, by talking about the disproportionate crime rate in black communities. But the reality is that data cannot be used to justify general suspicion of all black folks in New York for instance out of the millions of stops that have been made less than five percent of the time is even a citation given let alone an arrest. Less than two percent do they find drugs. Less than two-tenths of a percent do they find weapons.

So, the reality there is disproportionate crime in a certain community cannot be used to justify the kind of over generalization that racial profiling and Stop and Frisk have brought about in places like New York and around the country.

LEMON: It was hard for you to cut it down to five, wasn't it?

WISE: Yes. I have like 80. So, folks who want to find out more can check it out on the Web site or tweet me I guess.

LEMON: All right, Tim, don't go anywhere because I want to bring in after the break Alvin Poussaint who wrote a book will Bill Cosby. It is called "come on people." He knows all about the subject. We will get his perspective coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: So, we are talking about race. Now, we are really talking about it here. We are not trying to control the conversation. We are letting everybody have their say and we're listening.

So, we are talk about why some people get so angry the second the word "race" enters a conversation. Some black people and some white people just go berserk. Why is that?

I want to bring in now psychiatrist Alvin Poussaint who co-wrote with Bill Cosby a book called "come on people on the path from victim to victors." I love the title.

Thank you so much for joining us and spending your Saturday evening with us.

DOCTOR ALVIN POUSSAINT, CO-AUTHOR, COME ON PEOPLE: Thank you.

LEMON: What is your message to African-Americans after the George Zimmerman verdict and how do we move on from here?

POUSSAINT: Well, the message is that we have to deal with the fact that Trayvon Martin verdict was traumatic for a lot of people in the black community because it made them understand and appreciate all of the racial profiling they have had and made them feel very, very vulnerable. And I think people have to understand that. It is not like we just like as news. It is like it upsets us inside and makes us afraid.

So I think we have to recognize that. At the same time, we know we have to move on. It also reminds us there is still a lot of racism in America. And hot spots for it that we still have to deal with.

I think one of the problems, Don, is that when you start talking about what black people can do to help themselves and how they should work on this and work on that, people then attack that as if you are saying there is no structural racism. There is no institutional racism. That is not true. It is not either or, it is both of those things. That this institutional racism and as the president said you have to have black people working hard, struggling to get ahead to be successful and their parents have to join in that and the community has to join in that and that is also very key.

If you're weak, if you're weak because you don't have an education or you don't have good psychological makeup because of the way you were raised, you are not going to be an effective fighter, someone who can continue to advance black people and attack the ongoing institutional racism in America. LEMON: I saw some people, there was some discussion. I didn't actually see the program, some discussion about respectability, politics or something like that. And it reminded me of what my dad would say to my mom and it would just infuriate her because my mom had her Masters' degree and she is working toward a doctorate but she had three kids and couldn't get her doctor. She had her Master's degree. And my dad was a high school graduate, pipe fitter at a plant and a mechanic. And he would say to her, sometimes smart people are some of the dumbest people I know, right?

So, if someone's car was broken down, he wouldn't sit around and talk about the history of cars. Well, this particular car we have to look back of there is historical. He would just look and go oh, your spark plugs are broken. You want to get this car started your spark plugs are broken. We shouldn't sit around and talk about the history of all of those things. Yes that is true but sometimes you just need to get the car started -- Doctor?

POUSSAINT: Yes. Well, I think that the analogous kind of thing is a young person or an old person seeing themselves solely as a victim.

LEMON: Right.

POUSSAINT: Without any control over their lives. That is a real problem. People internalize being a victim and say, well, there is nothing I can do. In fact, I can do anything that I want and there is nothing I can do to get out of my situation. That creates feelings of hopelessness and helplessness and apathy and then change doesn't take place. And in fact a lot of people who think that way can become very self-destructive in the things that they do and not take the high road.

And I think that's one of the things Bill and I talked about in the book is you have to try to take the high road though people are trying to do you in, put you down, could be the white community and sometimes people in your own community but you have to stand up and not give up hope. And that hope is key because I think, in fact, a lot of the homicide we talk about and the suicides have to do with feelings of hopelessness and ongoing feelings of worthlessness among black people.

We are not over all of those feelings of inferiority that have been institutionalized in America. They confront us continually. And what happened to Trayvon martin is kind of symbolic in another way because even though it's not a killing, there are black middle class folks, black doctors, professional people, and people in business who in their own institutions experience racial profiling, racial rejection, it's more subtle, but there is still a glass ceiling.

LEMON: Yes.

POUSSAINT: And so what it reminds us is that this is still something that is integral to America that we have to continue to work on in a very serious manner.

LEMON: We do. And just real quickly here, because I need to move on. I have to get other headlines. I have time issues here because this show is only. And Tim, this is your life's work, Tim Wise. So as you go around to different organizations, different classrooms, different symposium, or whatever, you smart people, you're one of the smart people who I believe is not done. How do you see, what do we need to do next? Where do we go from here?

WISE: Well, I think, you know, it's fine to have a conversation about personal responsibility. But let's not forget that we also have collective responsibility. And as a nation we have not done enough to address both the history and the contemporary reality of racism.

So, it is perfectly -- like I believe in personal responsibility. I'm a dad. I got two girls. You know, I preach that as a father all the time.

But at the same time, my kids as daughters, right, have a very high likelihood of facing sexism and institutional patriarchy at some point in their lives. I've got to prepare them for that and I've got to challenge society around sexism and all I'm saying to white folks when I go around the country is while black folks and brown folk are dealing with their stuff, because they've got stuff they got to deal with. We all got a couple nickels in the quarter, so to speak.

We've got to fight the systems of inequality and discrimination that continue to put certain folk at a disadvantage. That is what justice demands. That is what the promise of this country requires of us.

LEMON: Right. Tim Wise out of (INAUDIBLE) -- thank you. We lost a shot there but thank you very much.

Tim, the conversation continues. This isn't the last conversation. Send an e-mail. We'll talk about something else next. We appreciate it.

Next, major flooding across a big portion of the United States. People in 12 states are in danger of high water right now. I'll show you a wide area of the South that's already been hit and is back in the threat zone again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A massive manhunt continues to intensify in Idaho. Federal and local search teams are looking for James DiMaggio who is suspected of killing two people in San Diego last Sunday and kidnapping 16-year- old Hannah Anderson. The search for the pair is now focused on a rugged mountain area in central Idaho where the suspect's car was discovered Friday.

Police still consider DiMaggio a threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN LARRY NESBIT, SAN DIEGO SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: At this point, we believe he is extremely dangerous. We know he has already killed two people. We know that he has a kidnap victim, hostage with him. And we're not taking any chances.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This morning, the San Diego Sheriff's Department confirmed that the second set of remains found in the burned out house, in addition to Hannah's mother, are those of Hannah Anderson's 8-year-old brother Ethan.

And right now, 12 states have flood watches or warnings. Three people are missing in Colorado where floods and mudslides hammered a small town.

Cars were swept away by rising waters in Manitou Springs, Colorado. At least one person was killed. Police found a man's body under a huge pile of debris on this highway. Right now, Missouri, Arkansas, and Tennessee face extreme flood risks just days after flood waters devoured homes in all three states.

Crews are making slow but steady progress trying to contain a fast moving wildfire in southern California. The Silver Fire has already scorched about 19,000 acres and has destroyed 26 homes in the San Jacinto Mountains. Officials say it's now more than 45 percent contained. Authorities still don't know what caused the fire.

A horrific scene plays out on a Florida school bus. Three 15-year- olds punch and kick a younger student as the driver desperately alerts a dispatcher. But one critic says a national conversation about the incident is missing one important factor. The race of the students involved. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In the wake of last week's school bus beating in Florida lots of questions are being raised. Should the bus driver have stepped in? Should the teen's parents be held responsible? How can bullying like this be prevented in the future?

But one question that's new to this conversation: why are civil rights leaders and celebrities not speaking out about this case as they have done in other cases? Leading the charge is former United States Congressman Allen West.

West wrote this on a Facebook post on Wednesday. He said, "Three 15- year-old black teens beat up a 13-year-old white kid because he told school officials they tried to sell him drugs. Do you hear anything from Sharpton, Jackson, the NAACP, Stevie Wonder, Jay-Z, liberal media, or Hollywood? Cat got your tongues or is it that pathetic hypocrisy revealing itself once again? Y'all just make me sick."

Let me bring in antiracism activist again and author Tim Wise, and attorney Eboni K. Williams.

Tim, I want to start with you. What do you make of Allen West's comments?

WISE: Well, you know, it's what somebody who doesn't have work and is looking for attention says. What he ignores of course about the difference, let's say and conservatives generally have ignored about the difference between this and the killing of Trayvon Martin which they've tried to analogize it to, a couple things. Number one, these individuals were arrested. George Zimmerman was not for 46 days.

Number two, no one is bringing on the guys who committed this crime to try to let them justify their explanation the way -- justify their actions the way Sean Hannity did with George Zimmerman. No one on the left, no one in the civil rights community is trying to justify what they did. They all admit it was a horrible thing.

Whereas people on the right have spent the better part of a year justifying George Zimmerman's actions, trashing Trayvon Martin's memory, trying to dig up everything he ever did wrong to suggest that he had it coming.

So, this comparison that Allen West is making and the charge of hypocrisy is itself absurd when you look at the way right wing media and commentators handled the last year with regard to Trayvon and George Zimmerman.

LEMON: So, do you think -- do you think that maybe leaders should come out and say hey listen. This is behavior you should not be doing? You're saying they are not condoning it. No one is trying to justify --

WISE: That is obvious. They were arrested. No one condoned it.

I mean, I don't think every time that a crime happens, anyone needs to stand up and say that's terrible. That goes without saying. The difference is that when Trayvon Martin was killed there were folks suggesting there was no crime no foul. He had done nothing wrong.

No one in the civil rights community has said that about this beating. These individuals were wrong to do what they did. They've been arrested for what they did.

By the way, the cops in that town will tell you it was not apparently racially motivated. It was because this kid had informed on them for selling weed. So, it wasn't even a racially motivated crime and has no parallel to the killing of Trayvon Martin, although it was a horrible event.

LEMON: Yes. I was on a conservative talk show radio show yesterday and echoed what you said, until you sort of figure out whether it is a hate crime if the kids were saying, "I'm going to beat you up because you're white." Not that specifically but if there is any indication then people should probably speak out about the racial aspects of this.

But white kids beat up each other. Black kids beat up each other.

WISE: Right.

LEMON: Hispanic kids beat up each other. Asian kids beat up each other.

Eboni, to be clear, police have not said race was a factor in the attack. Fights happen on buses all the time as I just said. Catching them on camera is a fairly new thing.

If the victim had been black, though, would we be seeing protests do you think?

EBONI K. WILLIAMS, ATTORNEY: Absolutely not, Don. I agree with Tim that this is a false analogy to even try to equate this in any way to the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. I believe that, you know, again, we haven't even one iota of evidence pointing to any type of racial motivation at all.

In fact, as you said, Don, reports have shown this was indeed a revenge motivation for getting them in trouble with school officials for selling marijuana on their alternative school premises. And that's indeed the motivation that we know so far. So, until I see a shred of evidence that connects this to any type of underlying racial bias or racial motivation, I am really puzzled by the far reach that some are going to try to equate this in any way to the outrage and the public outcry we saw in the Zimmerman case.

LEMON: Let's talk to ebony about the bus driver. People say he should have jumped in. He should -- he may be facing some sort of backlash from this in the court system.

I -- I mean, a bus driver is a bus driver. He is not a security guard. He -- I don't understand why would he face charges?

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think that is again very misguided, Don. This man is 64 years old. In fact, in some jurisdictions a man in his situation, a bus driver would be prohibited from interfering with that type of violent occurrence on his bus. So, I think people are looking for someone to blame in this instance. It is a horrible tragedy. The actions of these three young men is at least what they have allegedly done here seems deplorable to me and at most anyone seeing the tape.

But to allege this bus driver is somehow liable or responsible is very -- it is reaching once again and very misguided.

LEMON: Yes. It is disgusting to watch that tape. It's really hard. Your feelings can't help but go out for the boy being beaten there.

Tim, I appreciate you.

Eboni, thank you. Thank you for coming on CNN.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Dramatic moments play out in the Atlanta courtroom as singer Usher tries to hold on to custody of his children. Details from inside the court, next. Oh, we'll talk to Eboni about that as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A victory for singer Usher. A judge has denied a motion from the R&B star's ex-wife to get temporary custody of their children. Tameka Foster Raymond petitioned the court after one of their two boys nearly drowned in Usher's swimming pool. CNN's Alina Machado has more on the drama that unfolded in court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An unexpected embrace between Usher Raymond and his ex-wife moments after a judge ruled in the singer's favor.

JUDGE: Dismissing the motion.

MACHADO: The emergency hearing played out in a packed courtroom Friday. First on the stand was Tameka Foster Raymond, who was hoping to get temporary custody of her 4 and 5-year-old son after one of them nearly drowned in a pool earlier in the week. Her testimony was emotional.

TAMEKA FOSTER RAYMOND, USHER'S EX-WIFE: I don't know if my son is going to have a brain defect. I don't know that his heart is operating correctly. I don't know that my son is going to be 100 percent the boy he was that -- before this incident.

MACHADO: She kept her head down as they played the 911 call in court.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RENA ODEN, USHER'S AUNT: Is he breathing? Is he breathing? He's breathing.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MACHADO: And at one point, Foster Raymond became so upset the judge intervened.

FOSTER RAYMOND: I never left the hospital, ever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is very difficult for you.

FOSTER RAYMOND: This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.

JUDGE: All right. Step down.

FOSTER RAYMOND: Thank you.

MACHADO: A sharp contrast from Usher, who appeared calm, even as he described trying to comfort his son the day of the accident.

USHER RAYMOND, SINGER: My son was hysterical and in the back of an ambulance. He's very irate and I did my best to help him calm down. And help him understand what had taken place.

MACHADO: Rena Oden, Usher's aunt, the woman who was caring for the boys Monday, also took the stand. The judge found her to be a competent caregiver despite testimony from Foster Raymond saying she did not think Aunt Rena could handle the boys. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Well, I want to bring back Eboni Williams now.

Dramatic moments inside the courtroom, Eboni. Why do you think the judge sided with Usher?

WILLIAMS: Well, there is one prevailing rule, Don, where you talk about a child custody case. It is very simple: best interest of the child.

What you saw was a very clear distinction in demeanor between the ex- wife, Mrs. Tameka Raymond, and also Usher Raymond, and I think the judge is certainly going to consider that.

Now, the emotional stakes in a child custody case are very understandable. So, her breakdown is something I empathize with.

But from a judge's perspective, Don, they have to consider who is going to be able to provide the most stable and most -- the best environment for the child. And also, too, this emergency hearing was based off of pretty much the isolated incident of the near drowning. And the judge found that was simply an accident. The judge did not feel that Usher had in any way contributed to the negligence that would have led to something like that being unreasonable or in any way Usher's fault.

LEMON: Eboni, some of the toughest moments to watch shall the 911 tapes from the incident. Why play those in court?

You saw in the video as you were talking, you saw Tameka Raymond there, Foster Raymond there just -- I mean, she broke down on the stand and had to stop for a while. Why play those in court?

WILLIAMS: Well, that was certainly an effort to get us to understand the heavy emotional gravity and the weight involved in this. That certainly led her I'm sure to file for this emergency hearing. However, ultimately again as the judge said in his ruling, it's an accident. It's horrible. It's tragic.

However, he said, no one person could have done any better than this aunt did in this situation. That was indeed the underlying reason for him to decide ultimately to side with Usher and keep custody as it already was.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much. Eboni Williams, we appreciate your perspective.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In just a few moments you'll see CNN's "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" go to post-war Libya. I sat down and talked with Bourdain about his roles as a travel guide, food connoisseur, and cultural observer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, HOST, CNN'S ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN": It is a privileged position to be in for me because people open up to me in a way they might not for someone who is looking for answers to a specific question. I mean, that's the best I can put it. I am an essayist not a journalist.

LEMON: Yes. But still, people learn from food. I mean, that's what we all have to eat.

BOURDAIN: Well, there is nothing more political if you think about it. What a culture -- what you eat in a certain country and what you don't eat, who gets to eat and who doesn't, just the national dish or the every day foods of the country, the history of that culture, the history of the world is very much on that plate. People eat what they eat for a reason. There's a lot of pickles or a lot of salt cured food.

That indicates something about what is often a very difficult history. And people are open. If you show up and are willing to accept whatever is put in front of you, people open themselves up to you in ways that I think they don't elsewhere. I think Libya was an example of that.

LEMON: As you're there and you're having breakfast, dinner, lunch with whoever, do they talk about Benghazi? Do they talk about the consulate? Do they talk about Gadhafi? Do they talk about all of these social and political issues?

BOURDAIN: You cannot avoid it. It is in every conversation. The same person who is practically weeping with joy biting into a Western style fast food fried chicken dish will happily tell you how he danced on Gadhafi's corpse or how -- you know, kids who were transformed from gamers, med students, shop keepers, or just, you know, skater boys, who suddenly found themselves hardened militia members but who are essentially still kids. It was a real surprise to me.

What does this fire?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rocket. Home made. There's a rocket here, will go to here, and fire with --

(CROSSTALK)

BOURDAIN: You had to have serious courage to ride around with this thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? It's (INAUDIBLE). There are a lot of home made things here. This is home made, too. This is home made.

BOURDAIN: This one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was from a helicopter.

BOURDAIN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got it.

BOURDAIN: You took it off the helicopter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BOURDAIN: And you put it on a car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mm-hmm. You know what this is for? You know Molotov?

BOURDAIN: Basically a crossbow that fires Molotov cocktails.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Molotov and TNT sometimes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Very interesting stuff. Very interesting stuff.

By the way, "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN", starts in just a few minutes here on CNN.

But thank you guys so much for watching. I want to thank all of my guests for coming on.

And I want to thank Russell Simmons for responding on Twitter. We'll talk about that tomorrow.

Again, I'm Don Lemon at Time Warner Center in New York. Thank you so much for watching us.

"ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" in about 15 seconds.