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Exclusive interview with the Director of the film, "THE FLAG"; Congress returns to Washington divided; White House chief of staff Dennis McDonough talked about plan to attack Syria; Ben Jealous has resigned as NAACP president

Aired September 08, 2013 - 22:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Don Lemon.

Now that you have just watched "THE FLAG", I want to bring in the director now, Michael Tucker.

Thank you for joining us here in studio.

Let's talk about the reaction to the film. Are you getting any sort of leads on where the flag might be?

MICHAEL TUCKER, DIRECTOR, THE FLAG: We have received dozens of tips so far. Some very credible, some more -- you have to realize there were hundreds of flags at ground zero, and they have been spread across the country. And everyone sort of has a connection to these stories and these flags.

LEMON: No, I understand that there was a company that you thought there might be wow, this may be it. But what happened?

TUCKER: It was the first tip we received was last Saturday from a company called Musko Lighting in Iowa. And they had mobile lighting trucks for sporting events. And on September 11th, they had trucks in New England. They sent them down to the city. They sent them to the Pentagon. And on the morning of September 12th, they said they received a flag from a firefighter which they then put on the boom of their truck. But as it turns out, that flag was far too large.

LEMON: And if the public wants to help out there is that you can go to CNN -- findtheflag@CNN.com, findtheflag@CNN.com and you can send tips. And you said you have got dozens so far. And hopefully one of those will pan out. Do you think you're close to it, maybe, hopefully?

TUCKER: I think as more people, especially the New York metro area see the film, some first responder is going to realize that this flag they took from the site probably just accidentally is the flag.

LEMON: The story was about -- I mean, how much was it about the mystery of finding the flag, or was it about the importance of getting it back? Which one or is it a combination?

TUCKER: Well, I think actually it's something different. More than just looking for a flag, it's about looking for a feeling, looking for how we felt as Americans. And by going on the search, we were able to talk to so many people and somehow register how we felt that day and in those weeks that followed.

LEMON: If the flag ever turns up, and let's hope it does, how will you know if it the real McCoy? Who gets to determine that?

TUCKER: The yacht owners that you saw in the film tonight, Shirley Dreyfus and (INAUDIBLE), they Are the only people that can identify it. And if they were able to identify it, there is some sort of mark on it, and then they would probably give to it one of the museums in the city.

LEMON: Are you afraid that they will -- that this flag will never be found? And even if it is, that people will say, hey, you know, how do we know? They will doubt that it a genuine article.

TUCKER: I think the mark is pretty specific. So--.

LEMON: So you're not worried about that. You think that you will get it back, right?

TUCKER: I'm not sure that we'll get it back at all. It could just be out there some place in the five boroughs or on long island and we'll never find it.

LEMON: Do you have any idea where it will go if it is recovered?

TUCKER: Initially, the yacht owners wanted to give to it the Smithsonian. That's where old glory is. It's the most visited exhibit at the Smithsonian. I think now with the 9/11 museum opening the spring, they would probably definitely consider that.

LEMON: What was the idea -- what gave you the idea to do this? Obviously, it's what happened. But why you? Because many people didn't know that the flag was even missing. What made you take this up as a mission?

TUCKER: Well, I think there is a larger story there. This is probably the most iconic picture of the day. It's the one that ended up on covers, "Newsweek," covers of newspapers. It's been referenced by people like Rudy Giuliani. It was even in his political campaign. So people know this picture. What they didn't know was the story behind this flag and this flag raising. So it was a way to revisit the day.

LEMON: What is your hope here, obviously, to find it, right?

TUCKER: I don't know if the hope was to find it. I think there is a lot of -- there is very much unhealed wound.

LEMON: Right.

TUCKER: And the more that we talk about this, the more that we can view this historically, the more that we can have a conversation about 9/11, the stronger we'll be. LEMON: Michael Tucker is the director of "THE FLAG." And again, before I let you go, I want to put that e-mail address up there. It's findtheflag@CNN.com/theflag or findtheflag@CNN.com. And you can leave your tips there.

Again, our thanks. Great film. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN. Appreciate you doing the film for CNN.

TUCKER: Thank you so much for having me.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

Up next, the GOP senators have dinner with the vice president at his home tonight, and guess who decides to join them?

The president comes calling, looking for votes to support an air strike on Syria. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Just hours away now, Congress returns to Washington divided. Many members still unsold on the president's plan for a military strike in Syria. And the president is already working for votes. He attended a dinner Sunday night. Republican senators at vice president Joe Biden's residence.

Well, Monday, CNN has learned the former secretary of state Hillary Clinton is expected to make brief comments on the Syria crisis during a visit to the White House. And meantime, current secretary of state John Kerry met with Arab league ministers in Paris on Sunday. He says Saudi Arabia has approved international military intervention in Syria. Other key regional support uncertain, though, but Kerry emphasized urgency.

White House chief of staff Dennis McDonough appeared on five Sunday talk shows to make the case for military strike against Syria. On CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION," he talked to our Candy Crowley about our intelligence linking the Assad regime to chemical weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Joining me now, Dennis McDonough, chief of staff at the White House.

Thanks for being here. I want to ask you something right now. If the U.S. should launch a strike, is there any country anywhere that would provide military equipment or military personnel to help us?

DENNIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, it's important to see this statement that was released by the G-20 on Friday where we had several countries joining us in calling for the Syrian regime to be held accountable --

CROWLEY: But not supporting a U.S. strike? Let's make that clear.

MCDONOUGH: To be held accountable for an instance that nobody now is debating, which is interesting. Nobody now debates the intelligence, which makes clear, and we have high confidence about this, that on August -- in August, the Assad regime used chemical weapons against its own people.

A former Iranian president has indicated that he believes that. The entire world believes that. We Are talking to Congress about that now. So Congress has an opportunity this week to answer a simple question, should there be consequences for him for having used that material. There is going to be a lot of interest in the answer to that question in Tehran, among Hezbollah, and in Damascus, and we should be very clear about that.

CROWLEY: I want to ask about Tehran and the message of Tehran in a minute. But let me get to this point. Right now, the president has talked about it's the world's red line. The president has talked about all the neighboring countries that are threatened by what Assad has done in his use of chemical weapons. Are any of them willing to provide military equipment or military personnel to give a firm commitment from anybody?

MCDONOUGH: We have got commitments from, as you saw in the statement, and as you have seen in series of statements since, including yesterday out of Brussels where the EU came out and said that the Syrian government should be held to account.

CROWLEY: Moral support. And not specific report -- it's not specific support for the strike at this point.

MCDONOUGH: Well, not at this point. But it is specific support for holding him to account. And it is a recognition that it happened. So we are no longer debating whether it happened or whether it didn't happen. And that's important.

But we do have plenty of friends who are standing with us. But let's remember why the president said it's an international red line. Going back almost 100 years, 1925, the Geneva protocol against the use of these terrible weapons, that's been in place for almost 100 years.

CROWLEY: And it's a protocol that does not include and here is the punishment if it happens. We should say that. So, the answer is pretty much to know at this point that we have to commit.

MCDONOUGH: It is a call that has allowed us to ensure that our people, our troops, men and women in uniform have not been subjected to attacks with chemical weapons since World War I. That's the important issue here. We want to continue it, to have it that way.

CROWLEY: So let me just put this to rest. No, we have no firm commitments for military personnel or military equipment from any other country?

MCDONOUGH: Look. We have plenty of support. I'm not going to get into who is going to do what in any particular operation. We feel every good about the support we have, and we'll continue to build more.

CROWLEY: OK. At this point, more moral support than anything is what you're talk about.

MCDONOUGH: You're trying to get me to say that. I'm not going to say that.

CROWLEY: All right.

Will you wait until after the U.N. inspectors come out with their report on the chemical weapons before a strike?

MCDONOUGH: Obviously, we are interested in what the U.N. inspectors have to say. But let's remember a couple things. One, they're not going to be able to tell us what is responsible for the attack. So, it could be interesting corroborative information to what we already know and to what I've just indicated to you. Everybody whom I speak with has indicated to me they believe which is he used chemical weapons in August against his own people.

CROWLEY: But the question comes from the fact that the EU in their statements seem to be indicating we want to see this U.N. report, that there is, you know, there is the imprimatur of having the U.N. saying yes, they were used.

MCDONOUGH: It obviously is very important to our friends in Europe and other friends as well.

CROWLEY: Right.

MCDONOUGH: So we have indicated to, as secretary Kerry said yesterday, we have indicated to our friends that we will continue to work with them. We will see what comes out of New York. We are right now focused on Washington, trying to get congressional support for this.

CROWLEY: Would you wait?

MCDONOUGH: Well, right now the timeline seems to work consistent with one another. But we'll see how this works. The president ultimately is going to make this decision in consultation with Congress on our timeline as best suits our interests.

CROWLEY: So when the president speaks on Tuesday night, do you have, and will he reveal a direct link between Bashar al-Assad and these chemical weapons being used?

MCDONOUGH: Well, I'm not going to front run the president's address. But here is what we do know --

CROWLEY: Is there one? And does the intelligence show a direct link?

MCDONOUGH: Here is what we know. Here is the common sense list. I'm not going to talk to you about intelligence. Here is the common sense list.

The material was used in the eastern suburbs of Damascus that had been controlled by the opposition for some time. It was delivered by rockets. Rockets which we know the Assad regime has, and we have no indications that the opposition has. And you have now seen -- CNN in fact ran these videos yesterday. You've seen the video proof of the outcome of those attacks. All of that leads to, as I say, a quite strong common sense test, irrespective of the intelligence that suggests that the regime carried this out. Now, do we have a picture, or do we have beyond reasonable doubt evidence?

This is not a court of law, and intelligence does not work that way. So what we do know and what we know the common sense test says he is responsible for this. He should be held to account.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And we are just learning, CNN has learned that Dennis McDonough will meet with house Democrats on Monday. And this follows the president's announcement that on Tuesday he is going to take his case for U.S. action against Syria to the American people, and also the president will meet with Senate Democrats on Tuesday as well. And then the president is going to address the nation, as I said. And then you can see and hear the president live 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.

Before the president addresses the nation, he is sitting down with CNN's Wolf Blitzer. And you can see that interview tomorrow, 6:00 p.m. eastern on "the SITUATION ROOM."

So, how does the image of the U.S. change if it goes it alone and it strikes Syria? I'm talking about that with a former state department official, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Nations are divided over whether military action is need in response to these alleged chemical attacks in Syria. But what does President Obama stand say about America's place in the political world -- in the world.

Joining me now from Washington, Middle East analyst and co-author of "Going To Tehran," Hillary Mann Leverett.

You have spent a lot of time in the Middle East. You are a former state department official. You have interviewed Bashar al-Assad. You have interviewed his father as well. Help put this into perspective for us. How does the U.S. image in the world change if an attack on Syria is carried out?

HILLARY MANN LEVERETT, CO-AUTHOR, GOING TO TEHRAN: Well, if an attack is carried out, it will likely be done without U.N. approval, without U.N. security council approval. And therefore in part because of that, it will be seen inside Syria and the region and around the world as an illegal American attack, aggression on a country. So inside Syria what it's very likely to do is consolidate support around Bashar al-Assad. Within the region, it's likely to boost Assad's defenders like Hezbollah and Iran and the Shia government in Iraq. And globally, it's likely to bring America's competitors -- Russia, China, Iran together into a closer alliance than they would be in any other context. LEMON: Yes. Talk to us more about the U.S. intervention. What would it mean to the U.S. relationship with Iran?

LEVERETT: Well, for the past two years, Saudi Arabia with the help of the west has really pushed this narrative that the war in Syria is a sectarian civil war. And that has pitted Shia against Sunni. If the United States attacks, particularly in this kind of illegal way, it will no longer be seen as much as a sectarian war, but as one to resist the United States, resist Israel that gave the United States in their view and their perception this kind of intelligence.

So, what that will do is it will put Iran on the side of resistance, on the side of noble resistance against an ugly American/Israeli aggression. This is something that we know, year after year, it plays well. It plays well for a reason. People in the Middle East are angry about illegal interventions in their countries that have led to the deaths of thousands if not millions of people. That's their perception. So if we do it again, we're going put ourselves on the -- really isolate ourselves and put Iran into a camp that will have a lot of support through the region.

LEMON: Is this why you say that American intervention will be sort of the last nail in the coffin when it comes to Middle East influence? I spoke with you earlier.

LEVERETT: Yes.

LEMON: And I believe those were your words. Is this why you say that?

LEVERETT: Yes. Each military intervention that we have pursued over the past ten years has put the United States, has lessened American standing, has diminished American standing, has diminished American credibility, has diminished any respect for the United States whatsoever.

It's interesting to look at the poll numbers. You compare President Obama's poll numbers, who made outreach to the Muslim world a signature of his first term. His poll numbers in the Middle East are less than George W. Bush's were at the end of his term. The reason for that is people don't like American military interventions that kill thousands or more of their people. But we keep doing it, thinking somehow each time we do it, we're doing it for noble reasons to liberate these people. And then we are shocked, shocked like in Libya that these liberated people aren't more grateful, and they have the nerve to kill our ambassador.

I know that sounds politically incorrect, but we have to really look at this soberly. We cannot continue to go into these countries despite the public opinion polling, despite reality on the ground and think people are going to react differently, that they are going to welcome us with open arms and chocolate candy.

LEMON: I want the talk about Senator John McCain, who is a long-time political adversary of President Obama's. He says that Congress' blocking authorization for the president's plan in Syria, he says it would be catastrophic, that is a quote, "catastrophic." Does he have a point?

LEVERETT: He is pointing to an underlying problem, which is that President Obama put -- painted himself into a corner, both on Syria and on Libya. He insisted at the beginning of protests in both of those countries that their leaders had to go, their leaders had to be overthrown, with no plan, no strategy of how to affect that, and no thinking through of what the consequence would be, what those countries would do in response.

So, senator McCain has a point that this is going to be a problem. But to make the problem worse would be to intervene, would be to attack, would be to kill more people on the ground. And unfortunately, I don't think that Senator McCain fully understands that.

LEMON: Very interesting. Thank you so much. We appreciate that Hillary Mann Leverett. Really good analysis. Thanks again.

LEVERETT: Thank you.

LEMON: Syria the big story this week in Washington. But there is more to tell you about in the days ahead, including a big unveiling from Apple, and a sunken cruise ship hopefully rising back to the surface. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here now are five things you need to know for your week ahead. We call it the weekly five.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): Congress gets back to work this week with the crisis in Syria the talk on the hill. On tap, new closed door Intel briefs for members of congress. President Obama will address the nation Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Also on the agenda, immigration, spending bills, and a hearing on marijuana laws.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the phone that has changed phones forever.

LEMON: Two for Tuesday. Apple is expected to unveil a pair of iphones at the annual September media event, grabbing the most attention will be the iphone 5s which may feature s finger print ID reader. Apple is also releasing a less expensive model, the iphone 5c, which some tech launcher say is mostly made of plastic and will come in an array of colors.

Wednesday is September 11th. President Obama will mark the 12th advocacy of the attacks with a moment of silence at the White House. He will also attend a solemn ceremony at the Pentagon memorial. Wednesday is also the one-year anniversary of the attack on the American embassy in Benghazi, Libya.

Do you have the need for speed? Reno, Nevada, will be an aviator's paradise during the national championship air races. In addition to thrilling air competitions, Jetman will show off his aerobatic skills as he flies through the skies at nearly 150 miles per hour.

Salvaging a shipwreck. Saturday, engineers will attempt to raise the cruise liner Costa Concordia. The crippled vessel has been sitting in the waters off Italy for nearly a year. Once the ship is upright, it will be towed and dismantled.

And that's your weekly five.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: The president and CEO of the NAACP is stepping down. Ben Jealous says he will resign on the last day of the year. Jealous says the constant travel has kept him away from his wife and young family too much, he said. I talked to him, just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I got to be honest with you that I want to spend time with my family all the time. And it sometimes usually means someone got kicked out. I'm just being honest. And I just saw you a week ago, and you were very happy. And I wondered why. And?

BEN JEALOUS, NAACP PRESIDENT: And there you go. And there you go. You know, my chair asked me when I called her, she said well, is there somebody who is luring you away. And I said yes, there. His name is Jack and her name is Morgan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I'm Don Lemon in New York. "Presumed Guilty, Murder in West Memphis" begins right now.