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Syria Options; George Zimmerman in Police Custody; Interview With Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey

Aired September 09, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hour two. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You know, it may be the opening that could avoid a U.S. strike on Syria. Today, huge news, Syria's foreign minister said that Syria, quote, "welcomes, welcomes a proposal from Russia that would put Syria's chemical weapons under international control."

While the White House is cautious, it's also candid. Syria giving up its chemical weapons could make a difference. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton agreed, speaking at the White House just in the past hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: That would be an important step. But this cannot be another excuse for delay or obstruction. And Russia has to support the international community's efforts sincerely or be held to account.

TONY BLINKEN, U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We would welcome Assad giving up his chemical weapons, doing it in a verifiable manner, so that we can account for them and destroy them. That's the whole purpose of what we're trying to achieve, to make sure that he can't use them again. That would be terrific.

But, unfortunately, the track record to date, including recent statements by Assad not even acknowledging that he has chemical weapons, doesn't give you a lot of confidence. But, that said, we want to look hard at what the Russians have proposed. And we will.

QUESTION: I just want to make sure, so is this an ultimatum coming to Bashar al-Assad? Is this an escape hatch for him?

BLINKEN: Again, we will look at what the Russians have proposed. We will talk to them about it and we will see where it goes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, still, as of now, this news has not altered the presidential push, really, it's a presidential push we have rarely seen, from closed-door briefings to televised interviews, multiple televised interviews.

The president seems to be using up every hour, every top aide to try to convince Congress to authorize this limited strike on Syria. Keep in mind, this afternoon, the president is giving six, six news channels interviews, including our own Wolf Blitzer, before his speech to the nation tomorrow night.

At this hour, in addition, the House and the Senate are opening the floor to official debate on Syria. The Senate could vote as early as this week on whether to authorize military action there. And then you have this. Our latest poll here from CNN taken just this weekend shows Americans don't want it. You see the number, and 59 percent were against American military action in Syria.

Now, Syria has said that it welcomes this Russian proposal to put its chemical weapons under international control, to head off the U.S. military strike, but that begs the question, is Syria simply stalling for time? Or did what seemed like this off-the-cuff remark by the secretary of state, John Kerry, this morning in London, did it crack the door open for diplomacy?

I want you to watch what Secretary Kerry said today at this news conference in the U.K.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Is there anything at this point that his government could do or offer that would stop an attack?

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Sure. He could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. Turn it over, all of it without delay, and allow a full and total accounting for that. But he isn't about to do it, and it can't be done, obviously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Within hours after that, Russia's foreign minister proposed that Syria hand over control of its chemical weapons, and his Syrian counterpart, as I mentioned, issued this statement welcoming the idea.

And the United States, while expressing some skepticism, said it would take a hard look at the Russian plan.

So, Fareed Zakaria, let me bring you in. You're host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." You have been listening, you have been talking about this moment today. Could this be an opening? Might this be the beginning of diplomacy for everyone involved?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It could be, Brooke, but it also could be a very clever Russian/Syrian ploy. After all, what it does, when you look at it, it weakens the momentum the president has been trying to build. It weakens the case for the war.

It's also going to create complications among the president's coalition, because there are many people who are supporting the president in his efforts here who want much more than just a signal about chemical weapons.

People like John McCain and Lindsey Graham are doing this because they want to use this opportunity to decisively tilt the balance of power away from Assad in favor of the rebels, really to get Assad out of power. They're not going to want to miss this opportunity, so they're going to be frustrated. I think for a whole bunch of reasons, this is a very clever Syrian/Russian move that could lead to a negotiated outcome, but could also thwart the president's plans.

BALDWIN: OK, I appreciate your skepticism and that this could very well be a ploy. But here's the next question, then. Is the Syrian foreign minister's statement a tacit admission that Syria has in fact these chemical weapons? Because we have heard in these interviews, most recently with Charlie Rose on CBS, that he never admitted to having them.

ZAKARIA: Of course. That's a very good point. Assad doesn't admit to having them, and there's in fact no question that the Syrian government has mountains of chemical weapons. This is somebody that everybody, even the Russians, again by their tacit -- by their proposal, understand and underscore that the Syrian government does have these weapons.

Assad has in effect just said no just a day or two ago. His foreign minister is admitting it. But, look, we have always known the Syrian government has chemical weapons. In my opinion, it's quite likely that they used them. We will never have circumstantial proof that will be perfect, but there's a lot of circumstantial proof.

The question really is, is this enough? Is there a way to get -- is there a way to get a serious plan that is verifiable, that will satisfy the United States, and that will destroy these weapons? Because it's simply not a question of putting them into safeguard so that the Syrian government has them accessible when this crisis passes.

The point should be here, of course, to destroy them once and for all.

BALDWIN: Sure, it should be long-term. But just indulge me for a moment, because in terms of safeguarding them, let's just -- practically speaking, Fareed, how would this even work? Because we know Syria is in the midst of this war, right, going on three years. The weapons inspectors would have to be brought in. The weapons would have to be secured. Is that even doable? Who would be in charge of doing that?

ZAKARIA: It's doable. It would have to be a U.N. team. Remember, we have some experience with this because of Iraq.

After the Gulf War, there were a series of U.N. inspection teams that went in and actually did -- in many cases did precisely this, destroyed various stockpiles of chemical weapons, biological weapons, mostly chemical weapons, actually. We do know how to do this. You add the complexity, which is Syria is currently at war, but I would suspect that there would be a way to do it because the government would have to guarantee a certain security for these people.

The rebels don't have any interest in interfering with that because if these guys are going to destroy Assad's chemical weapons, why would the rebels stop them? So I think there's a way forward here. The question is really, are the Russians serious, are the Syrians serious, or is this just a way to deflate whatever momentum the administration has been building?

BALDWIN: We shall see. Fareed Zakaria, thank you very much.

And in addition to all these layers of this narrative that's come out today, there are the numbers. The new CNN/ORC poll just out this afternoon shows that most Americans, 60 percent, do not think it's worth attacking Syria's regime for its alleged use of chemical weapons, this after message after message and message from the president, from his staff that a strike is necessary for national security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: Iran is watching what we're doing. North Korea is watching what we're doing. Hezbollah is watching what we're doing. If we don't stand up and enforce this prohibition, they will take the wrong lesson from it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Chief political analyst Gloria Borger joins me now.

Gloria, you heard what John Kerry said, what we heard from Syria, what we heard from Russia. What does the president need to say tomorrow night when he speaks to the nation to try to sway public opinion?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think, and even tonight in the interview with Wolf Blitzer, I think he needs to make very clear what our mission is.

He needs to let the American people know whether what John Kerry said was actually just sort of some hypothetical, freelance, rhetorical point, or whether John Kerry was actually suggesting something on behalf of the president of the United States. And I think he has to reassure the American people that if you were to do some kind of a surgical strike, which John Kerry called unbelievably small, that that would actually have the impact that the president says it would have, and that it would be worth doing, and that it wouldn't lead to a more protracted involvement in Syria, which, of course, nobody wants.

BALDWIN: And then we have Hillary Clinton. Right?

BORGER: Yes.

BALDWIN: She was speaking at this pre-planned event at the White House. Now this is the first time we hear from her publicly. We have seen the statement, but publicly here supporting these limited strikes. And she, too, mentions this comment from the secretary of state. She also has been floated as a possible 2016 contender. If she chooses this path, she could inherit all of this.

BORGER: She could inherit all of this. I think, you know, in a way, John Kerry might have done her a little bit of a favor, because she had something to say, which is, OK, let's see if the Russians are serious about this. You know, the United States has no choice but to take the Russians up on this particular offer now that Kerry has said it, because they don't want to -- America doesn't want to look like it's rushing, you know, into military strikes. So what Hillary Clinton could do is tell a little bit more of the story from the administration's point of view. Keep the skepticism intact. And they are skeptical, very skeptical, and they keep making the point that the only reason the Russians and the Syrians are sort of taking -- or talking about this is because they're under the threat of the use of force.

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: And that if we had let that up, then they would never even be talking this way.

So she had something to say. And , you know, no matter what she does, Brooke, she's going to be in the middle of this because she was the secretary of state. She's very high-profile, and she's probably going to run for president.

BALDWIN: Because she is Hillary Clinton. She is in the thick of things.

BORGER: After all, after all.

BALDWIN: Thank you very much. And for all the reasons Gloria just outlined, this is a must-see interview tonight, Wolf Blitzer getting one-on-one with the president on this crisis in Syria.

That interview with President Obama will air tonight, 6:00 eastern, right here on CNN. We will be watching.

And speaking of watching, there's Congress. We're going to go straight to the source here. Democratic Senator Bob Casey tells us why he's adamant the U.S. should strike Syria, even though the majority of the country is against it.

Plus, more on our breaking news this afternoon, George Zimmerman in police custody after some kind of altercation in Central Florida. We're getting word this altercation involves his wife.

Busy day. Stay right with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: More of our breaking news.

Let's go straight to Washington. Here he is, Senator Bob Casey, Democrat Pennsylvania. He supports military action against Syria.

So, Senator, welcome. Busy couple of weeks for you in the nation's capital. But I just to -- right out of the gate, I have to get you reaction on this notion of putting Syria's weapons under -- quote, unquote -- "international control." Does that have any appeal to you, Senator? SEN. BOB CASEY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, Brooke, we will have to see how serious they are. But I have to be blunt about this. When the Russian Federation and the regime in Syria makes proposals like this, I think their credibility is really in question.

So we will see. And we should consider every offer that's out there, but that should not in any way slow down the effort to make it very clear that when you use chemical weapons against your own people or against anyone, that there will be a price to pay for it. And I think that's what we have to do, just be careful that this doesn't allow us to take our eye off the ball, which is to hold Syria accountable for this and also to send a very clear message to the regime in Iran and Hezbollah, the terrorist group, that we mean business when it comes to this, and we're not going to allow terrorism and the kind of crime perpetrated by Syria to be the order of the day in the Middle East.

BALDWIN: I hear you, but I have to just -- let me just stay on this point, though, because we earlier had the suggestion from this unnamed administration official that secretary had goofed in raising this entire idea that we're talking about.

But the official line at this moment is that it is something worth exploring. I don't know if disarray is the right word, but how would you qualify behind-the-scenes goings-on at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in terms of Syria today?

CASEY: Well, I think we're going to have a lot of analysis about words that are used and what people are saying, but the most important thing right now is the United States Senate, of which I'm a member, is going to have to cast -- is going to confront a vote this week, and it's a very clear choice I think for any member of the Senate.

Do you just condemn a crime against humanity or do you do something about it? I think that's what -- basically what the vote will be about. But I also think what is underestimated or under-discussed or underplayed in Washington is this very basic threat that Iran, the regime in Iran, poses to us each and every day, not just with regard to the nuclear capability.

That's bad enough when they're trying to develop that, but Iran is the number one sponsor of terrorism in the world, at least as it relates to state actors. And we have got to be very cognizant of that when we make this decision.

BALDWIN: Sure. I think that was crystal-clear when your senator colleagues Graham and McCain stepped out of the White House after meeting with the president last week, specifically mentioning connecting the dots with Iran.

But let me get to this poll, because CNN has this new poll. And I just want to share numbers with you and our viewers when it comes to strikes against Syria. So, it shows just 39 percent of the public wants Congress to pass a resolution backing the president on this. And that is very much in line with what we have been hearing. Last Thursday, your colleague Senator Dianne Feinstein was asked about this lack of support, and here is what she said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: What are your constituents in California saying to you and how much does that weigh on you?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it weighs on me no question, because I'm very constituent-oriented, and every day, I get a report on what the calls are, where the calls are coming from, what the nature of the argument is.

And there's no question, what's coming in is overwhelmingly negative. There's no question about that. But, you see...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Do you feel the same way, Senator? She talks about overwhelmingly negative constituents' comments. But if your constituents in Pennsylvania knew what you knew, would they back military action?

CASEY: Well, I do think, though, that -- and there's no question that the responses in my state are overwhelmingly against it.

I think we should be honest about that. But I also think that, in the next couple of days especially, the clear and convincing case of the evidence will become more apparent. It's even on the public record, not to mention the classified information that members of Congress see.

But also the gravity of this crime I think is just beginning to break through. So all of us here in the Congress and in the administration have to do a better job of communicating that. And I think when that evidence is before the American people, those numbers will start to rise. But there's no question that because of the way people were misled in the lead-up to the war in Iraq and the terrible sacrifice that our fighting men and women paid and their families, that people are skeptical.

The basic difference here is that there are no troops going to be put on the ground. That is not planned. That will not happen. If this were a vote about troops on the ground, I would vote against it. If they try to put troops on the ground, I will oppose that.

But I think when people know the difference and understand what this is about, it's very specific as it relates to chemical weapons, about holding a regime accountable for a crime against humanity, and, secondly, the overarching question about the message it sends to bad guys in the region, especially the regime in Iran that tried to blow up a restaurant in Washington in 2011 that would have killed scores of Americans, and they did it with impunity. It's just that a lot of people have forgotten that.

BALDWIN: I remember that, but I just want to take you back to your point. You said you would vote no if this ever meant to no -- boots on the ground. And I watched the Senate and House hearings, specifically, questions asked. How do we know what will happen next -- after the United States, if they were to go in with a limited strike, how do we know about, A., retaliation, and, B., if it might ultimately may or may not lead to boots on the ground?

CASEY: Well, we know for that sure the authorization here will be the most limited authorization of force probably in American history. It's designed that way. It very specifically says no boots will go on the ground.

So, we know already because of what is in print in the resolution, what we will be voting on. Do we know exactly what the outcome will be? No, there's no question about that. But here's what I know for sure after having looked at this region for years.

What I know for sure is, tomorrow morning, this week, next week, for the next number of months and years, the Iranian regime and Hezbollah will try to kill Americans. And anything we do that strengthens their ability to kill Americans is a bad move. I would argue that if we don't respond to chemical weapons and Mr. Assad stays in power, that strengthens Iran and Hezbollah.

That is very bad for us. It will lead, I think, to more Americans over time being killed by those regimes, because they have already done it. They have killed Marines. They tried to take out an American ambassador in 2011, tried to blow up a restaurant in Georgetown right here in Washington, knowing that it would be full of American government personnel.

These are regimes and terrorist organizations that only understand one thing. They understand a strong fist and the determination to use the fist.

BALDWIN: Senator Bob Casey from Capitol Hill, Senator, we appreciate your time very much.

CASEY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Back to our special coverage here in just a moment, but, first, breaking news out of Florida. George Zimmerman is currently in custody. We're told it involves some kind of altercation involving his wife and that there was a gun present. We're getting details. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Back to our other breaking news story here. We're getting even more information into CNN on this story out of Florida, the Orlando area. George Zimmerman, as we have been reporting, is in custody.

Alina Machado and Ryan Smith join me now.

Alina, just start from scratch. What do you know? ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we know is George Zimmerman has been detained, that he's been placed in what is called an investigative detention and that's while authorities investigate what happened in the situation. He's being detained.

This is all related to a domestic altercation that happened this afternoon, late this afternoon, between George Zimmerman, his wife, Shellie Zimmerman, and her father. We know that Shellie Zimmerman filed for divorce last week and police say she's the one who called 911 today.

This happened in Lake Mary, Florida. That is a suburb of Orlando, and it's also close to Sanford, and police say there was a gun present at the scene, but a gun was not involved in the incident.

BALDWIN: That's an important clarification. OK, it was at the scene, not specifically involved here.

We were talking just quickly in commercial break, Ryan Smith. This is a guy obviously we know, we followed the trial, Trayvon Martin, he was acquitted on that murder charge. This is someone who we have seen semi-publicly pulled over, what, for speeding recently?

RYAN SMITH, HLN ANCHOR: Speeding twice.

BALDWIN: Speeding twice. Got a ticket, got a warning. When you think about this, if this wife was filing for divorce last week, she knows darn well what she's doing when she picks up the phone and calls 911. Right?

SMITH: You have to know. You have to know that there is going to be an explosion of media attention the moment you pick up the phone and call 911.

Either something tremendous was going on here, so big that she had to call 911, or there's something going on in the divorce proceedings where there's a button being pushed. We don't know for sure on that one. But here's the thing. We never got to hear from George Zimmerman himself at the trial. A lot of people said we're not seeing the real George Zimmerman. Who is this man who got involved in this altercation?

When you talk about this situation in the context of their divorce, possible domestic altercation? Is this who he really is? Does that shed light on who we did not see at the trial? That builds into all of this. I have to imagine once the phone was picked up, something was going on that she had to know what the context would be behind all of this.

People would say, well, is this guy domestically violent? Is there something going on? You have mom and you have got father-in-law and her and him involved. Not a good scene at all.

BALDWIN: You were in the weeds in this whole thing as the trial played out. Maybe you know as well here. What do we know, I guess, about his past when it comes to his wife? SMITH: It's been nothing but sunshine in many ways up until the divorce proceedings and what we heard from her.

BALDWIN: A week ago.

SMITH: Yes. She was in that courtroom whenever she could be, standing by her man.

She almost got convicted of perjury standing by her man.

BALDWIN: That's right.

SMITH: And in this particular -- up until that recent interview, we always thought the relationship -- trials will put a strain on anybody's relationship, but we always thought it was one where at least they were together. It's only recently we have seen the tension between the two of them. So with this coming out following a divorce filing, that speaks volumes to me because it shows that it's a very tense relationship between the two of them.

And the second thing is, and, again, we don't know this for sure, but divorce proceedings are extremely stressful. They involve a lot of feelings. One of the affiliates said it looked like there were boxes on the scene that indicated moving in and moving out. You tie that all in together and you start wondering what is going on in their relationship, because up until a couple weeks ago, it was husband and wife together in this.

BALDWIN: Wow. Keep us posted. Obviously, as the investigation continues, we will get more information to find out exactly what happened and what happened I guess maybe behind closed doors beyond what we saw play out in front of the cameras in that courtroom in Sanford. Thank you both very, very much.

And coming up next, the U.S. open -- the U.S. is open to Russia's offer for Syria to put its chemical weapons away, put them under international control. How is that playing at the United Nations? We're getting responses from other countries.

More breaking news right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)