Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Syria Accepts Chemical Weapons Deal; Interview with Congresswoman Marcia Fudge of Ohio; Police Respond to Zimmerman's Home

Aired September 10, 2013 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And this breakthrough comes just hours before President Obama heads to Capitol Hill to make his case to Senate Democrats and Republicans. And later tonight, the president will lay out his case to you, the American people, in a primetime address.

Senior White House correspondent Brianna Keilar will have more on the president's push. But let's begin in Moscow, shall we, with Phil Black?

Phil, this seemed to happen so fast.

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was very fast moving, the events in the Russian capital yesterday.

Carol, Syrian and the Russian foreign ministers had already agreed to come here for a day of talks. They held a press conference in the morning. They were still talking about the same old ideas for an international peace conference. And then Secretary of State John Kerry made those remarks about the possibility of Syria giving up its chemical weapons even though the State Department hosed down those comments pretty quickly afterwards.

They've really been embraced, endorsed here by Russia, embraced now by Syria as well. And so you've got this idea. But now the big job for Russia and Syria is turning this idea into a reality. Both coming to terms -- laying out what the international framework will be for how this will happen, how it will be enforced.

Russia will want to go to the United Nations on this. Will it allow a potential airstrike with some sort of military action as punishment if Syria doesn't live up to its commitments? That still has to be decided and trashed out. Russia doesn't like that sort of thing.

The other big issue, though, is just how to make this work on the ground in Syria, how to find, account for, secure, perhaps ultimately destroy Syria's highly secretive chemical weapons program within the context of an ongoing civil war. That's the real challenge and Russia says it's now working on developing that sort of plan with the Syrian government. And it will have it ready to present to the international community in the near future.

COSTELLO: Yes. And we're going to talk about that with David Kay, a former U.S. weapons inspector in just a bit. But another question before you go. The Obama administration will say this deal came out because of the threat of military action. Is the Obama administration right?

BLACK: Well, the exact origins and the evolution of this idea is a little bit murky really. There is certainly a very strong feeling in Russia that had this idea been suggested by the United States alone. Syria wouldn't have gotten on board, they would have seen it as essentially some sort of blackmail at gunpoint.

And so the Russian involvement here is very much being championed as -- has been key to pulling this off both just as an idea and perhaps ultimately making it work as a reality. But what is clear is that we know that Russia and the United States, the presidents of both of these countries were talking about this last week at the G-20 summit on the sidelines there in St. Petersburg.

But it was only yesterday after John Kerry made those remarks publicly that Russia has really jumped on board and endorsed it very, very publicly. It's unclear precisely where the idea came from but they're very much on board now -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Black reporting live from Moscow.

So let's get White House reaction to this deal now and if that could change the tone of the president's primetime address tonight.

Senior White House correspondent Brianna Keilar joins us with that side of the story.

Good morning, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Well, the White House at this point is certainly welcoming the possibility of a nonmilitary solution to the crisis in Syria. At the same time, they are skeptical when they look at Syria agreeing to something brokered by Russia. They have seen that Russia's role -- they've seen Russia's role in this as to be sort of slowing things down, trying to gum up the works.

And so in that regard, they are skeptical. But I think that what you could say here is this proposal that has now been accepted by Syria, according to Syria's foreign minister, has diminished the chances that there is a U.S. military strike on Syria. Whether Syria actually gives up its chemical weapons, that's something that I think the White House, as well as a lot of observers of the situation in Syria are kind of skeptical about.

Now when President Obama does speak tonight to the American people, we're told, Carol, he's still going to actually make his case for military action. And we're hearing from White House officials, they say that this military option would not have come about without there being this military threat.

So you're kind of seeing them take a little credit for this but I also think it reflects a little sensitivity on their part as you just talked to Phil. You know, where does this whole idea come from? Was it from John Kerry? I think that the White House is sort of sensitive to the idea that perhaps the president's policy on Syria may be perceived as having stemmed from sort of an off-the-cuff comment from the secretary of state.

COSTELLO: But isn't it likely, now that this deal is supposedly in the works? Isn't it less likely that lawmakers are going to go along with the president? Now they have another option.

KEILAR: Yes. I think that's -- that's exactly the read, Carol, that in a way, I think it sort of gave lawmakers who really were not on board with this military option an off ramp, another option. And they were very eager to take it.

And I think ultimately the White House was, too, because they wanted to -- well, I think when they started to realize -- although publicly they'll say that they thought they could get the votes, that they were sure Congress was going to go ahead and give them the victory they needed, but I think behind the scenes there was very much a realization that they were in trouble, not just in the House, which is a heavier lift, but in the Senate.

And now what you see is the Senate has decided they're not going to go ahead with their vote, which was planned for tomorrow. So at least the short-term effect of this, Carol, is that the White House has avoided being what could have been a very stunning defeat with that Senate vote.

COSTELLO: All right. Brianna Keilar, our senior White House correspondent, reporting live for us this morning.

So let's bring in the former chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, David Kay.

Good morning.

DAVID KAY, FORMER U.S. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: OK. So you heard about this deal. What do you think? Is it a delaying -- tactic? Is it serious?

KAY: Well, you never know. The Russians both, before the 1991 Gulf War and the 2003 invasion, came up with ideas that would hopefully postpone it. Now they turned out to be delaying tactics. Secretary Baker was very blunt with his counterpart in '91.

But, look, it's -- if it works, it's a win-win situation. Not only does it avoid the consequence of military action, it really removes the serious threat that most of us worried about. That is, the rebels might gain access to those chemical weapons or terrorists coming from abroad just for the purpose of getting those chemical weapons could happen. If this works, it really is a genuine win-win.

COSTELLO: OK. You're saying if this works. So how exactly would it work? KAY: Well, first of all, you've got to start with, do you know where all the Syrian chemical weapons are? And if they tell you they're in six places, do you know there's not a seventh or eighth?

Now in this -- you're going to lean both -- lean on both the intelligence community and, quite frankly, the Russians have got -- put against the wall. They know a lot more about this than we do from the outside because they're actually in Syria and have been at the heart of that program. Secondly, you go to the Security Council and you -- you get agreement on a resolution, which not only implements this, but says if anything fails, if the Syrians violate it, you go to Chapter 7 which authorizes -- preauthorizes, really, action to -- threats on peace and security.

And then the final one that of course personally is I see as a huge difficulty, you've got to find international inspectors which are both acceptable to the West and acceptable to the Syrians and you're putting them in a hostile environment. What do you do for their own protection? Several of these sites are on the edge of rebel action. So it's not a peaceful walk in the park and -- by any means for the inspectors.

COSTELLO: And so they would need --

KAY: And then I guess --

COSTELLO: They would need security, right? They would need security. Would that involve U.S. troops on the ground in Syria to find it?

KAY: No, it probably would not. But it would involve, I would guess, Turks, Jordanians and even, quite frankly, the Iraqi Security Force that we have trained would be well put to do this, but it also involves a layer of other international responsibility.

The hardest thing for inspectors, let me tell you, is to report violations. Usually your political bosses don't want to hear that something that looks so good, kept them out of trouble is actually not working. So you've got to have absolute integrity in the process. There are a number of technical dangers along the way. But we're not there yet.

And finally, I should answer -- say that one of the interesting things about the Russian proposal is not only international control, but finally destruction of these weapons subsequent to the control. That is a very hopeful sign. And we should push the Syrians to agree to this. Their foreign minister this morning, in fact, did agree to it. It's got to be in the final agreement.

COSTELLO: OK. So that would be the best-case scenario, if these chemical weapons would be destroyed. But if Syria doesn't agree to that but agrees to some sort of -- I don't know, international depository for these chemical weapons, where would that be?

KAY: Well, initially, look, it's got to be in Syria. A, their stockpiles are huge. We're talking about tens -- over 10 tons of chemical agent. And maybe as much as twice that. We really don't know fully the size of their stockpile.

It's dangerous to move them. And you -- the question is where would you move them to. The experience we had in 1991 and '92 about moving Iraqi chemical weapons, it was -- no state wanted to receive them. And so you finally had to build a destruction capability in Iraq. I suspect this is what you would have to do in Syria.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. Thank you so much, David Kay, for your insight this morning. Also thanks to Brianna Keilar and Phil Black, who will be back with us in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

Again, President Obama addresses the nation tonight at 9:00 Eastern. You can watch it right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, they're some of President Obama's staunchest supporters but even members of the Congressional Black Caucus are not ready to throw their support behind a possible military strike in Syria. I'll talk to the group's leader next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're following breaking news out of Syria. The country's foreign minister says they've accepted Russia proposal to place Syria's chemical weapons under international control. But should that fall through, it's going to be a tough sell for President Obama to get Congress' go ahead for military action.

If you need another example, talk to his most ardent supporters, the Congressional Black Caucus. The president met with the caucus at the White House for more than an hour yesterday to no avail. In fact Congressman Emanuel Cleaver said everyone in the room wanted to say we are with you, but simply could not.

In a moment, we're going to talk to Ohio Congresswoman Martha Fudge, who is chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus. She's not quite ready for us yet. But when she gets to the microphone, of course, we'll take her live.

We'll take a quick break while she gets there. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Seventeen minutes past the hour. Welcome back.

Again, it's going to be a tough sell for the president to get Congress' go-ahead for military action. If you need another example, talk to his most ardent supporters, the Congressional Black Caucus. The president met with the caucus at the White House yesterday for more than an hour to no avail.

In fact, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver said, quote, "Everyone in the room wanted to say, we are with you, but simply could not."

Ohio Congresswoman Marcia Fudge is with me. She's the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus.

Welcome, Congresswoman.

REP. MARCIA FUDGE (D), OHIO (via telephone): Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

First, I want to get your reaction to this breaking news about Syria -- acceptance Russia's proposal to turn over its chemical weapons.

FUDGE: I mean, I think that's outstanding. I do believe that if there is some way we can find a diplomatic way to address the atrocities in Syria, I think that we should move forward with all due speed to make sure it is something that is credible and I think that we should engage with this kind of a discussion.

COSTELLO: Do you trust Russia, trust Syria?

FUDGE: I don't know that I trust any of them, but that doesn't mean that this is not something that is not going to happen. I think that we really do want to do is make sure that we take chemical weapons away from Syrians and I do as well believe that because of the threats that have come from the United States, that Russia and Syria both understand that there needs to be some action. So, I'm hopeful, certainly, that this is something that is going to move forward.

COSTELLO: When I introduced you, I read a quote from Congressman Cleaver who said, you know, we want to be with you, President Obama, but we just can't. We can't be with you.

How many members of the Congressional Black Caucus are with the president and support military action?

FUDGE: We have not taken any kind of a poll. Every member is going to make their own decision, so I really don't have that answer. I don't think anyone has that answer.

COSTELLO: Well, the way it looks now, it's unlikely that the president will get congressional support, especially from the House of Representatives, for a military strike. Does this deal that Russia has put forth and presented to Syria, does this save face for the president? I mean, how do you characterize this?

FUDGE: I don't know that it's a matter of saving face. I think the president did the right thing by coming to the House of -- by coming to Congress. It's something that many, many of us that wrote letters, we sent all kinds of messages to the White House saying that this was a decision we'd like to be involved in. He did that.

Now, whatever happens in Congress, I can't call it. But I would say to you that if, in fact, this situation does work itself out in a nonmilitary way, I think it's a benefit for the entire world, not just for the United States.

COSTELLO: So the president talked with the Congressional Black Caucus for a little less than an hour, also his national security adviser, Susan Rice, was there. Obviously, they didn't change minds enough for people to come out and say, yes, I agree with you President Obama.

So, in light of that, what more does the president need to say tonight?

FUDGE: Well, I think the president needs to do tonight is to convince the American people. We do have responsibility as members of Congress, but as well we have constituencies who have been very vocal about their opinion. So, I think it's important for him to make the case to the American public, why this action needs to happen.

And I think that if he does that, I think he has a very good shot at getting the support in Congress. If he doesn't, I think it's going to be a very difficult --

COSTELLO: You really do?

FUDGE: -- road ahead.

COSTELLO: You really do, especially in the House of Representatives? You think the president has a good chance, like a military strike? That's what we're specifically talking about.

FUDGE: No, I said if he makes the case to the American public, I think that it is possible. But he has to make the case to the American public and to those members of Congress who are still skeptical. I mean, I think if he does that, I think there will be some people who will side with him, because so many -- more than 300 members of the Congress are undecided.

So, I think this is his opportunity to give us the kind of information we immediate to make a decision. I'm one of the undecideds. So, I want to hear what he has to say.

COSTELLO: I'm just curious about something. I think many political pundits are curious as well. You urged CBC members to remain largely silent on Syria until more information comes forth. Why was that?

FUDGE: I didn't urge them to be silent. My words were: limit your comments --

COSTELLO: Why?

FUDGE: -- until we have all of the information. Because I think it's important that we have all of the information before we start making statements and don't really know, in many instances, what it is we're making statements about.

COSTELLO: I just ask you that because some cynics might say, here are President Obama's most ardent supporters and they can't get behind him and fight the fight alongside him.

FUDGE: Well, let me just say to you -- I am a member of the U.S. Congress. I have a constituency just as every other member here. He is the president of the United States, just as there have been other presidents.

We make decisions based upon what we think is best for the country, we make decisions what we believe is best for our constituents. We do not make a decision based upon who is in the White House.

And so, I am hopeful that people will understand, wherever we end up as a caucus, that we are doing what we believe is best for the American people and for the United States of America.

COSTELLO: Congresswoman Marcia Fudge, chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, thanks so much for joining me this morning.

FUDGE: Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Still to come in the NEWSROOM: a domestic dispute and Shellie Zimmerman's 911 all.

SHELLIE ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S WIFE: I don't know what he's capable of. I'm really, really scared.

COSTELLO: Questions this morning about what really happened at the couple's old home.

MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: George wasn't aware of it. So, when George showed up to see a trailer and a truck outside the house, it was concerning to him.

COSTELLO: Both sides of the story after a break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A bizarre incident puts George Zimmerman back into the spotlight and it all began with this 911 call made by Zimmerman's wife, Shellie.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

DISPATCHER: 911, do you need police, fire or medical?

ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) police.

DISPATCHER: All right. We do have units en route to you ma'am. Is he still there? Shellie Zimmerman: Yes he is and he is trying to shut the garage door on me.

DISPATCHER: Is he inside now?

ZIMMERMAN: No, he is in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying "step closer", and he is just threatening all of us with his firearm.

DISPATCHER: "Step closer" and what?

ZIMMERMAN: And he is doing to shoot us.

DISPATCHER: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: He punched my dad on the nose. My dad has a mark on his face. I saw his glasses were on the floor.

He accosted my father and then took my iPad out of my hand and smashed it and cut it with a pocket knife.

And there is a Lake Mary city worker across the street that I believe saw almost all of it.

DISPATCHER: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: He is sitting in his truck right now. He just showed up here but my phone died so I had to call from my father's phone.

DISPATCHER: OK, that's what I was wondering. I was trying to get you back and it kept going to voicemail

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

DISPATCHER: All right.

ZIMMERMAN: I'm really, really afraid.

DISPATCHER: We have units in the area where you are at, OK, so just stay on the line with me. ZIMMERMAN: OK, OK. I don't know what he is capable of. I'm just really scared.

DISPATCHER: All right. There are multiple units in the area, all right. This is Shellie right? What's your phone number that you are you calling on now?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. Oh, the police are here.

DISPATCHER: What is Zimmerman doing right now?

ZIMMERMAN: He is in his truck. There's police here with their weapons drawn.

DISPATCHER: Does he see them?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm sorry.

DISPATCHER: Does he see them?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. They are telling his bodyguard to get out of the way.

Oh my God. Dad, get behind the car or something. I don't know if he is going to start shooting at us or not.

DISPATCHER: Are you outside right now?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes we are. The police have their weapons drawn.

Dad, get inside the house. George might start shooting at us. I don't know.

We are going inside the house.

DISPATCHER: OK, go back inside.

ZIMMERMAN: Oh my God

DISPATCHER: Are you both inside right now?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

DISPATCHER: OK, stay in there, OK? Let the police take care of it.

ZIMMERMAN: OK. He has got his hands in the air. He is not touching his weapon.

DISPATCHER: OK. OK.

Does your father need medical?

ZIMMERMAN: Dad, do you need medical? He says no, but I think he does need medical. He is shaken. He says he feels like he is going to have a heart attack. His nose.

Yes, you do because your nose looks like it could be broken. I think he should have a medical, if we could have an ambulance come.

DISPATCHER: Sure. They won't be able to approach until the situation outside is secured.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

DISPATCH: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: Oh my God. Oh my God --

DISPATCHER: You guys are safe inside, correct?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

DISPATCHER: Shellie, you are doing really good, OK? This is a tough situation for anyone, all right? I'll stay on the line with you, all right, until our units can speak with you, all right?

ZIMMERMAN: OK.