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Secretary Hagel Honors Shooting Victims; Gunman's Background Raises Flags; ATF Traces Weapons Used In Shooting; Security Questioned In Wake Of Shooting

Aired September 17, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: -- downtown. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, the secretary of the Navy, the chief of naval operations will all gather as Secretary Hagel lays a wreath. Washington will pause for a moment to remember the victims of this masses shooting.

The military lain into place many of the procedures to honor and remember those who fell yesterday at the Navy Yard, just as they do for those who fall in battle, the families of the fallen are getting military assistance, they are getting counselors. You begin to see, I believe, the ceremony about to take place -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's listen.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Barbara, we still are waiting for this event to begin. It will begin very, very shortly. Barbara Starr is with us right now to help walk us through this. One of the faces of the men involved here is not someone who is familiar I think to most Americans, but is someone who was here yesterday at the Washington Navy Yard. That's the chief of naval operations. He lives here.

STARR: That's right, John and Carol. This is Admiral Jonathan Greenard, the chief of naval operations. He and his wife were evacuated out of the Navy Yard yesterday this morning as this incident unfolded, so many people trying to make the rush to safety. As you see in a few minutes, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel laying this wreath, this moment of remembrance.

I think it's worth remembering, again, Hagel himself a combat veteran of Vietnam, a man who has seen so much. As he is sort of settled in at the Pentagon over the months, this is a guy who out in the hallway will suddenly stop some fairly low-ranking military member or civilian and just stop and talk to them and ask how they're doing and what's on their minds.

We've seen that happen here in the hallways of the Pentagon. This is felt very deeply, very deeply across the military family. Again, they're sending chaplains. They're sending assistance officers. The wounded are being granted access to Walter Reed just as the wounded in the war zone. For the military, just like the tragic shooting at Fort Hood, this is best described as family business. This is the military family in the United States, whether they're civilians working for the Department of Defense or active duty carrying a weapon on the front line. This is the military family in this country and very much heartfelt that they look after each other. Admiral Greenard, the chief of naval operations, Ray Mabus, the civilian head, the secretary of the Navy moving very quickly yesterday afternoon to put all those procedures into place.

So that, as families were notified that their loved ones had been killed, there would be a casualty assistance officer, a chaplain available to them, and grief counseling, trauma counseling for anybody at the Navy Yard that felt they needed it. This is -- I can only keep say, for the military, it's family business, just as it has been at so many scenes across this country, Aurora, Colorado, the movie theater, the school shooting, Sandy Hook.

It just takes place in various communities. People really do come together. This today what you're seeing this morning is the military community, the navy community, coming together for a few minutes in Washington to pause and remember. There will be investigations. There will be reviews. There will be law enforcement, but just for a minute, as you see as they approach, a moment to pause and reflect.

COSTELLO: All right, so as we await this ceremony to get under way, we expect "Taps" will soon be played, a very sombre moment. As Barbara Starr said, you know, the military is a family, has to take care of its own. After it gets through this grieving process, which will be a very short time, it has to undergo this rigorous investigation and answer so many important questions.

BERMAN: Very serious questions. The secretary of defense has made clear that right now what he wants to focus on is the family aspect. He wants to mourn with this entire community that has lost so much in the last 24 hours. But he has also acknowledged that he needs to start right away starting to ask these questions about the security procedures at military installations like this one. Because after Fort Hood, after what happened here, it's clear these need to be addressed.

COSTELLO: I suspect many meetings have already taken place overnight, and of course, investigators in Building 197 are putting together exactly what happened. And the big question still remains this morning, what was the shooter's motive? Why did he do this? I mean, we've pretty much ruled out terrorism, but we don't exactly know because we don't know what the motive was in this case.

BERMAN: And Barbara Starr, who's still with us, from the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, it is interesting that the Department of Defense is treating this really as a military event. Explain the significance of that.

STARR: Well, it's that notion, as we're talking about, about a military family. For those who fall on the front lines in the war zones, there's a lot of help that is given to the families. Here we know so far all of those who lost their lives yesterday were civilians working for the Department of Defense, but that doesn't matter just as it didn't matter on 9/11 when so many civilians were killed right here in the Pentagon on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon.

In these mass casualty attacks, in these mass incidents where there is loss of life, the military comes together. Everyone is treated exactly the same. So what we know is, overnight casualty assistance officers, chaplains, fanning out across Washington, going to the homes of these families to render what assistance they can.

And as you see Secretary Hagel begin to approach here with the chief of naval operations, the secretary of the Navy, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, let us just pause and watch.

COSTELLO: All right, a sad and moving ceremony not far from where we are right now. The military family mourning the victims from yesterday's shooting but still so many questions.

BERMAN: So many questions. Like Barbara Starr said, the military acting like a family today, coming together to mourn those that were lost, even though we know the names of the people lost here, civilians, contractors, not necessarily military personnel.

COSTELLO: But still members of the family. As I said, so many questions remain, like how did this man get through security armed? We turn to Congressman Mike Turner for some answers. He's been investigating this. In fact, he sent a letter recently questioning the security inside the buildings at the Navy Yard. Congressman, are you there?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R), OHIO: Yes, I am.

COSTELLO: Congressman --

TURNER: First of all, our prayers go out to the victims and to the victims' families. But shortly after this event, this tragedy, occurred, an inspector general report was delivered to Congress that cited failure across the Navy security system for access to these types of facilities. It said in the inspection report that the people who worked there were at risk and in fact cited 52 felons who had been able to get through the system inappropriately.

It said that the system that was currently utilized by the Navy did not meet federal or DOD standards and it actually made a recommendation that the system that the Navy was deploying immediately cease to be used. This is obviously of great concern.

We sent a letter to the inspector general asking for the report to be made public to Congress so that we can begin the process of reviewing, did this contribute and did this have an impact on what occurred yesterday?

COSTELLO: And Congressman, when you say "the system," can you sort of explain to our viewers what you mean by that.

TURNER: Right. It included the background checks of the -- how they looked at an individual who was seeking access to the facility, who was either a contractor or trying to -- who was either employed or a contractor at the facility, that system did not utilize the background checks system that the federal -- or Department of Defense required. I'm sorry. I'm getting a tremendous amount of background noise.

COSTELLO: I apologize. Hopefully, we can fix that. So we'll do the best we can and muddle through and hopefully you'll stay with me. Congressman, I kind of want to take you back to the beginning of the shooter's career and ask you how he got into the Navy Reserves in the first place when he had an incidence of violence involving a gun in his background.

TURNER: That's the type of questions Congress is going to be asking. Congress is returning to Washington today, and part of our oversight function will be to review both this individual and also the system that's currently in place. The inspector general report cites failures across the system with the Navy, and I think that's something that people certainly would be very concerned about.

COSTELLO: So I guess your biggest fear would be there are more people in our military services or acting as contractors like the shooter.

TURNER: Right. Again, I'm having a great deal of difficulty hearing you. But the issue I think that we have to address is that, within hours of this shooting, this report was delivered to Congress that had also been delivered to the Navy and had told them to immediately cease using the system that they were using to vet contractors.

As a result of that, Congress needs to take a look at, does this contribute to the overall situation that we had yesterday and the fact that this report specifically said to cease using the system because contractors and military personnel were at risk is of grave concern.

COSTELLO: I'll just ask you one more question. Bear with me. I hope you can me and I want to ask you about sequestration because D.C.'s mayor came out and said sequestration is partly to blame for this. Do you agree?

TURNER: I think it's one of the issues we have to look at. I can tell you that the inspector general report does cite cost pressures on the Navy for the decision making that put this system in place that may have caused the risk. But the report itself specifically says that people at these facilities remain at risk as long as this system is in place. That's certainly what Congress is going to have to check on when we get back.

COSTELLO: Congressman Mike Turner, thanks for hanging in there. Important information you imparted to our viewers. Thank you for joining us this morning -- John.

BERMAN: All right, some of the crucial questions in the investigation right now involve the weapons used in the shooting. Where did the gunman get the weapons? What did he use? Our Pamela Brown has new surprising information about the guns. We'll tell you what that is, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back to the Washington Navy Yard, everyone and our coverage of the shootings that happened here just over 24 hours ago. We have a pretty important new development to tell you about. We've just learned that the ATF has traced the weapons used in this shooting.

CNN's Pamela Brown is all over this part of the story for us. Pamela, what have you learned?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, ATF has traced the firearm in the shooting. Now what we know from law enforcement services is that the gunman they believed walked into the building yesterday carrying a shotgun. We've learned from sources that the gunman bought that shotgun just in the past few days at a gun shop in Lorton, Virginia. That he also rented and returned an AR-15 at a shooting range at that same location in Lorton, Virginia.

Our Susan Candiotti is reporting that he tried to buy that AR-15, but they wouldn't sell it to him. So this is important because there was information out initially that he was armed with an AR-15 at the shooting. It is believed now that he walked in with a shotgun. There were two pistols also recovered, and that military personnel who were responding to the shooting were carrying maybe one or more AR-15s. That's where the initial confusion came from. That's why that was reported.

BERMAN: A number of items you just mentioned there that are hugely interesting. One, that it was a shotgun that he walked in ultimately and began this rampage yesterday. The second thing you mentioned, he tried to buy an AR-15 at this it place in Northern Virginia, but they didn't sell it to him. Any indication of why at this point?

BROWN: There's -- we're still trying to find that out. Right now, as we speak, officials are trying to piece this together, trying to get the paperwork and figure out why, but we do know obviously he's had a history of mental health issues. He had made contact with two Veterans Affairs hospitals recently.

So we don't know how all of this played a role in this, but, again, as we reported earlier, we know that according to law enforcement sources, they believe he bought a shotgun at this gun store in Lorton, Virginia so a lot of unanswered questions here -- John.

BERMAN: Unanswered questions and information reporting seems to change, but that's because what they are investigating is changing and evolving by the day. What investigators have been telling us over the last 24 hours has changed hour by hour in some cases. What we're reporting is also the latest, clearest picture that we have.

BROWN: Exactly. We hope people understand it is very fluid. Investigators are on the scene looking at ballistics, shell casings and so forth, trying to piece this together. This could continue to evolve, but right now what we're being told is that the gunman walked in with a shotgun. Two pistols were also recovered at the scene and one of the pistols recovered that the gunman took the pistol off of a guard that he shot. It's unclear where the third pistol came from.

COSTELLO: It's just interesting that he was able to buy an AR-15 -- he was not able to buy an AR-15, but he was able to buy a shotgun. BROWN: Again, that bit of information just came out from our Susan Candiotti. That he was at a shooting range at that location in Lorton, Virginia, where he bought the shotgun, according to sources in recent days. It's unclear, though, why they wouldn't sell that to him. We're still learning. This is obviously a developing story.

BERMAN: Well, we will follow up on this. You are doing a great job following up on reporting. Pamela Brown. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Pamela. One of the big questions for investigators, how did an armed military contractor with a checkered past manage to pass through security inside Building 197 at the Navy Yard and kill so many people?

CNN justice reporter Evan Perez is following that part of the story. Good morning.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. That is exactly right. The investigators today are trying to figure out exactly, you know, how this suspect goes from having, as you said, some checkered history with law enforcement. He's been arrested for some gun incidents in his past. Yet in July, according to the company for which he worked, called "The Experts," a subcontractor working at the Navy, he somehow passes a background check to get his security clearance.

There are about 4.9 million people with some kind of security clearance. That's 4.9 million people subcontractors and government workers. So this is a large universe of people. It's clear that this is something that congress and perhaps the White House wants to take a look at, which is perhaps taking a look at how many people have these clearances, whether or not it's too easy to get them. But without that clearance, it's clear he would not have the job that he had and would not have been able to make his way on to the navy yard yesterday, Carol.

COSTELLO: Kind of bring us through that process. How do you get clearance? Is there a waiting period before you're granted clearance?

PEREZ: That's again part of what's going to be investigated. The congressman who was on the air a short time ago I think is asking some of the same questions, which is, is the Navy using the procedure, the background questions that other parts of the government use? That's not clear right now.

Now, the arrest history is something that should come up in any kind of background check. Again, it's not clear whether or not those came up, whether or not it was sufficient enough for him to be able to pass clearance. At this point, those are all the open questions that investigators are trying to put together.

COSTELLO: I'm just picking up my notepad to refresh my memory. He was arrested, questioned by police four times?

PEREZ: Yes. He had incidents in Washington State, near Seattle, and in Fort Worth, Texas, both incidents involving firearms. In one he was accused of shooting through the floor of his neighbor. He told police he was just cleaning his gun. He had previous run-ins with this neighbor so she was very afraid of him.

In the Seattle incident, he said he was reacting to people in a construction site. Again, it seemed a bit unprovoked, but this is, again, part of the picture of his mental health, of his history of violence that I think investigators are trying to piece together today that could figure out what would have triggered the events yesterday, Carol.

COSTELLO: Evan Perez, thanks so much -- John.

BERMAN: All right, when we come back, putting together the pieces of a complicated and sometimes contradictory past. What are the key elements that investigators are now looking for? We will speak to a former FBI official, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We continue our coverage now of the shooting here at the Washington Navy Yard. As more questions are raised about security at the facility, the navy yard where 12 people were killed and eight injured is home to 3,000 employees, service members and civilians, just a few miles from White House and U.S. capitol.

Joining me is Shawn Henry, former executive assistant director of the FBI and the president of Crowd Strike Services. Shawn as we mentioned, some 3,000 people work at this facility, hundreds presumably in Building 197 where this incident occurred. Are those the people investigators will start with? They're going to talk to everyone there, I imagine. What will they be asking today?

SHAWN HENRY, FORMER EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI: Yes, absolutely. They'll want to absolutely talk to all the witnesses. Clearly what they want to do is put together a time line from the moment the shooting started until it ended and talk to all the witnesses to ensure, first of all, this was the only person.

I think that's clear at this point, but then going forward, did any of those people know Alexis? Did any of those people have any prior contact, had they seen him on the base, outside the base? Has he been stalking the facility?

BERMAN: The days and weeks in advance of this, so important. What did he do, if anything, in this building?

HENRY: Yes. This will be a domestic investigation across the United States. They'll be looking at people that have known him for years, people he may have gone to school with, people he served in the military with. They'll look at bank records, cell phone records, trying to piece together all of those pieces, critical to determine not only what he's done in the past but, was he planning something else, working with someone else, does he have co-conspirators or collaborators, make sure for certain this is the sole incident and there's not another one coming up. BERMAN: They've gone to the Residence Inn where he's been staying here in Washington. I understand people from CNN who have been there carrying boxes out of that hotel.

HENRY: That is a treasure trove, looking at documents, looking at computer records, looking at his house, his car, or any piece of paper with a clue.

BERMAN: What about his personal history? One of the disturbing things that is fascinating are the contradictions here, apparently devoted to Buddhism. At the same time had been arrested for gun violence in the past, at least two if not more incidents of that. How do these contradictions affect an investigation?

HENRY: One of the things I've learned in my experience in the FBI is that these things don't often happen in a vacuum. There are flags that come up. Oftentimes what you see of somebody is not what they really are.