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Wiring Problem Likely Caused Boardwalk Fire; Guns, "Anger" Involved in Arrests; Senate Pays Tribute to 12 Killed; Reliving the Chaos and Uncertainty; New Push for Gun Control Law?; Rick Warren Talks about Son's Suicide

Aired September 17, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just in to CNN, we are now learning what caused last week's huge fire at the New Jersey boardwalk. Investigators today revealing an electric wiring problem likely caused all these massive flames you see here in the areas that had just been rebuilt right after Superstorm Sandy hit. An investigation has now officially ruled out human involvement.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: But let's turn back to the investigation into the Naval Yard shooting here in Washington. I want to bring in Brian Todd. Brian, one of the things we heard law enforcement officials talk about was how the shooter, Aaron Alexis, had the proper security clearance and pass to get into the Naval Yard. What would somebody have to do to get that type of clearance? Is it a difficult process? Would they look to see about whether or not he had a criminal record?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a difficult process, Jake, from everything that we've been able to find out. We've talked to two attorneys who help people get these security clearances. What they've told us is this. The initial step is for a private contractor to do some background checking on behalf of the Office of Personnel Management, that massive government agency that deals with all the government employees.

TAPPER: That's part of the White House, the executive branch.

TODD: Exactly. They hire out a private contractor to look into the background of the person in question, find out anything in this person's background that might raise a red flag or deny them a clearance. They would report to the Office of Personnel Management, which would turn it over to the Department of Defense, one of three possible offices in the Department of Defense that we're told about, which would have been the entity to give him his final clearance.

But you have what appeared to be three stages where they would have hopefully flagged some of this stuff in his background. Somebody should have caught it. The attorneys we talked to who help people with these things say somebody should have caught it. The three arrests, two on gun-related charges, especially the one in 2004 where he shot at the construction worker's car in some kind of a blacked-out rage. That should have been flagged if nothing else. That should have been, but his arrest for disorderly conduct, other gun-related arrests in 2010 all should have been flagged, even if he wasn't convicted. But also, the eight instances of misconduct in the Navy that Barbara Starr has been reporting. The two instances that Pamela Brown reports of him going to the VA for some kind of mental health issues, all of it should have been flagged.

There were three entities in the government, a private contractor, the Office of Personnel Management and the Department of Defense, that, you know, these are the layers that would have gone through. We have called and e-mailed all these people, including the private contractor. We haven't confirmed the name yet to confirm they were the ones who did look into his background.

We believe it's them. We're not going to say the name right now. We've tried to make contact with all these agencies to get answers on this as to how he got through. We've not really heard back on that yet.

BALDWIN: OK, Brian Todd, thank you. I want to stay on this whole issue, asking questions about the system that awards security clearances specifically. We'll talk to someone coming next who certainly has a clearance. He's a commander here in the U.S. Navy. He's standing by with us here. He was at the Washington Navy Yard when the shots began early yesterday morning. He can talk about coming up colleagues huddled in his office. Not sure what was happening. That's next.

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BALDWIN: You are watching CNN's special coverage of the investigation into the shooting here at the Washington Navy Yard. Today, the Senate was silent for 35 seconds to pay tribute to those murdered right here in Washington. The quiet on the Senate floor is a stark contrast to what you're looking at here, the chaos on the Washington Navy Yard after those early morning gunshots. Family and friends headed straight to the scene searching for their loved ones.

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JACQUELINE ALSTON, HUSBAND WORKS IN NAVY YARD BUILDING 197: All I know is I'm supposed to be patient, which I am trying to hold on, you all, being patient and understanding and ask God what created this problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Most people got the reunions they were desperately seeking, including the woman you just saw. I mean, look at these, photo after photo, today, we can say that employees and their families are now beginning to allow what has happened, this tragedy to sink in. The site here in Washington is closed to most staff as investigators are processing the scene.

But there are a couple staffers who they're calling essential personnel who are back to work here at the Washington Navy Yard, including my next guest, who is at work, but has taken a moment to join us. Lieutenant Commander Rodeece Dean, thank you so much for being with us today and for your service, first and foremost. Let me ask you this, 8:15 the shots began just a couple blocks that way. Where were you?

RODEECE DEAN, NAVY YARD EMPLOYEE: I was in my office. My first indication that something had gone wrong was a little after 8:30, when I got a phone call from one of my co-workers who wasn't able to access the base, he said the base was locked down and that there was an active shooter. Shortly after that, we got the shelter in place order. My co-workers, we all got into my office. It was the biggest base we could lock. We locked ourselves in and spent most of the day there.

BALDWIN: What were you doing in your office? Just huddled or?

DEAN: Well, we stayed in the office. We were checking the news. We were getting reports on the emergency alert system, which fortunately was working as it should. We got alerts on our government cell phones, on computer. Yes, we were checking the news to find out what was going on.

Eventually, we were able to get dialed into the Regional Operations Center and find out what was going on there. You know, there were some moments where we just didn't know whether there were multiple shooters, whether there was one shooter. At one point we heard a loud commotion outside. We heard some yelling. It was around the time when we had heard that there were multiple shooters.

We didn't know if there was going to be another shootout right outside of the office. You know, when I joined the armed forces, I understood that there could be a day where my life would be put in danger. You know, I experienced that when I was in Iraq. I was concerned about it when I was afloat. But when I looked at my co-workers who were all civilians, it was very sobering to realize that this is not part of their job assignment.

TAPPER: None of you have arms?

DEAN: No, that's correct. We're essentially an office workplace. It was a little uncomfortable for me as someone who had been trained to use arms to not be able to do anything really useful to help. Not having access to arms. That's just what our office is like.

BALDWIN: What about, Lt. Commander, something we keep bringing up, which is this clearance? My dear friend, your colleague, was just e- mailing with me as he was watching this unfolding on CNN and saying, my gosh, he had just recently gone through a new clearance and how incredibly difficult it was for him. Yet, when you hear about what apparently happened with this contractor, it certainly makes you wonder. Is the system broken?

DEAN: Well, there are different levels of clearances based on, you know, what you need access to. I can't comment about whether the system is working or not. I know having gone through the process that -- and having a slightly higher clearance that I have had more extensive background investigations. You know, they're professionals.

They do their best to make sure that people are not a threat to, you know, our personnel. Again, this is not a warship. This is not an area that has access to arms. It's an office building. So the security clearance they go through normally is appropriately levelled to that threat.

BALDWIN: Lieutenant Commander, we appreciate you taking a couple minutes with us.

DEAN: Thank you.

TAPPER: Thanks for your service. We're glad you're OK.

Coming up next, he's a self-proclaimed pastor for the gun people. Hear his controversial message about how gun owners can stand their ground after mass killings without appearing to be callous.

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TAPPER: Back here in Washington, D.C., Aaron Alexis opened fire here at the Washington Navy Yard just after 8:00 in the morning yesterday. At around 10:30 today, Senator Dick Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, said this on the Senate floor.

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SENATOR DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: If we value the right of every American to enjoy their liberties with reasonable limitations, then we need to return to issues that are of importance. There was an issue before the Senate several months ago, a bipartisan amendment offered by Senators Manchin and Toomey, that would have taken an extra step to keep guns out of the hands of those who have a history of felonies or people who are mentally unstable. The vast majority of Americans think this is just common sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So there you have it. Just about 24 hours after this senseless killing of 12 people, the president's failed gun control amendment getting mentioned on the Senate floor. I want to bring in Reverend Kenneth Blanchard to talk a little bit about this. He's a former U.S. Marine, a pastor and gun rights activist. He's also the author of "Black Man With A Gun." So Reverend, welcome.

REVEREND KENNETH BLANCHARD, AUTHOR, "BLACK MAN WITH A GUN": Thank you.

BALDWIN: First, what's your reaction to what happened here yesterday?

BLANCHARD: I was crushed. America doesn't need any more tragedy like this. We don't need any more stuff to happen to us. When you work you want to be safe when you work. This place is as safe as you can get. Trouble can happen anywhere. I was grieving for the families. I was worried about my daughter who worked down the street from this place. I was in it. So it's part of my life too. TAPPER: Is there anything you think that can be done? I think there are a lot of individuals who would look at this situation -- and obviously there are a lot of details we don't know -- but say it's pretty obvious that people who have severe mental and emotional problems and a history of violence should not be able to get guns.

Here you have somebody who have had some incidents with guns, had been complaining and others had talked about psychological problems he had. Why not try to do everything we can to keep guns out of the hands of those people, which wouldn't affect individuals like you?

BLANCHARD: We also have the problem of not reaching back to our communities. There are people that we know are hurting, and we don't say anything. We want to make a microwave solution for everything. Sometimes it's just as close as somebody in your family isn't right. Grab them, hold them. That's kind of where I'm going now.

For me, it's to make sure that we don't do the automatic reaction. That we actually take time and look at our families. Somebody knows this guy, after the fact is too late. They should have been talking to this guy a long time ago.

BALDWIN: In reading about you, you do a weekly podcast. Your church is a couple blocks down the road from where we are. What is the message? You have a lot of hunters and outdoorsmen as members of your congregation that you say brace for the blowback.

BLANCHARD: It's hurt people. All soldiers, marines, sailors, airmen, everybody knows don't leave your brother behind. We forget that when we get back into the world. Right now, our community is hurting. I'm asking my people to listen to me, not to forget the people who you know are by themselves, who are lonely, who are not coping with stuff. Go back and get your brother.

TAPPER: When you hear the story of how Aaron Alexis in 2004 shot the tires out of the vehicle of a construction worker and then when asked about it claimed he had a blackout, do you have an issue with that person having guns?

BLANCHARD: Something happened. We failed somewhere. Everybody around him failed. Nobody wants to put the finger on ourselves, but it's us. We're our own worst enemy sometimes. We want to ignore. We're stuck. We want to put this thing down and grab somebody. We know what happened. Somebody saw that. That's a warning shot. He shot the tires, but it was a warning to be that his clock, something was broke. He was starting to spiral out. We had to pull him back in.

TAPPER: All right, Reverend, God bless and thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.

BLANCHARD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, we'll hear from another pastor, Pastor Rick Warren, reacting to the shooting here in Washington, D.C. He also opens up about something very, very personal to him, the death of his son.

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RICK WARREN, PASTOR, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: It's a day no parent wants. It's your worst nightmare.

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BALDWIN: He talked exclusively to Piers Morgan about his son's suicide. Piers joins us live next.

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BALDWIN: For the very first time since their 27-year-old son committed suicide five months ago, the author of the best-selling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," Pastor Rick Warren and his wife, Kay, are talking about his death.

TAPPER: They spoke exclusively with CNN's Piers Morgan, but talked also about yesterday's massacre at the Washington Navy Yard right near us.

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WARREN: When I heard about those deaths at the Naval Yard, the first thing I did is get down on my knees and pray for those families of the victims, those who died and those who were wounded, and my heart went out to them.

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BALDWIN: The Warrens' son, Matthew shot and killed himself back in April on the 5th inside his family's Orange County home. His parents say he had suffered years of depression and mental illness, and now they want to increase awareness about mental health.

So Piers Morgan joins us live from Los Angeles with more on that sit- down interview. I tell you my heart, Piers, obviously goes out to them to have to deal with something so absolutely horrendous, but then to take that moment and say, you know what, I want to help others. Let's talk about this. Let's get it out there.

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN LIVE": You know, it was one of the most heartbreaking interviews I think I've ever conducted because I've interviewed Rick Warren numerous times. He's a great guy. He's always very positive. He and his family and his wife -- I interviewed him and his wife together. They were hit by this awful tragedy, which they had been waiting for with a terrible sense of foreboding for years.

This boy, Matthew, was in his late 20s. He'd been mentally sick and depressed for a very, very long time. About a month before he killed himself, he told his mother that he had acquired a gun on the internet illegally. He paid big money for this gun. He'd been trying to get one for a long time. He tried to kill himself before. A few weeks after he got the gun, about two weeks later, he tried to kill himself with pills.

His mother was in this constant text dialogue with him on his phone trying to talk him down all the time. He said to her, if you tell the police I have a gun and they turn up, I will kill myself. Can you imagine the agonizing dilemma of this poor mother and Rick Warren knowing that this boy, their son, was going to kill himself if the police turned up, but was almost certainly going to kill himself if they didn't turn up.

That's what he did. He took his life and they went around his house and they realized what he'd done and they talk so moving. Take a look at them talking about this.

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WARREN: Matthew was not afraid to die. He was afraid of pain. I remember 10 years ago when he was 17, he came to me sobbing and he said, daddy, he said, it's really clear I'm not going to get any better. We've gone to the best doctors, best hospitals, treatments, therapists, prayer, everything you could imagine, good support. He says it's real clear I'm not going to get any better, so why can't I just die? I know I'm going to heaven. I know I'm going to heaven, so why can't I -- he was not afraid to die.

MORGAN: What did you say to him, Rick?

WARREN: In that situation, I said, Matthew, the reason why is there's a purpose, even in our pain, and I am not willing to just give up and say that the solution isn't there. You might give up, but as your father, as your mother, we're not ever giving up. We won't find the solution because I really believe Matthew could have been a great advocate for children in the world.

He was an amazingly compassionate kid. He had an ability to walk into a room and he instantly knew who was in the most pain in that room. It was like his antenna was up. He could feel it. He would make a b- line for that person.

He'd spend the entire time talking to that person trying to cheer them up, trying to encourage them. Many times he'd say, Dad, I could help a lot of other people, I just can't get it to work for me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Heartbreaking interview, Piers. Tell me, did the Warrens, did either one of them talk at all about any crisis of faith that they might have experienced after their son's suicide.

MORGAN: Very much so. They both actually felt that in the end it has strengthened their faith. Of course, they questioned their faith. They questioned their God that they believe so strongly in. They asked, why us? Why would this happen to us? It's very, very moving, almost the entire time this interview. They're talking about a family who have always been there for everybody else. You know, he runs one of the biggest churches in America and constantly deals with other people's tragedies. Suddenly they had to face this with one of their own. It comes back to this great issue in America right now of guns. We saw it yesterday with what happened at the Naval Yard. We saw it at Sandy Hook, Aurora, and so on. You know my position on this. I've been very strong about the need in America for more gun control. When you listen to the Warrens, you know, they had no way of stopping their son getting his hands on a gun because it's so easy to get your hands on a gun. It was so easy for the shooter at the Naval Yard to get his hands on a gun.

We don't know exactly what type of gun yet. Yesterday's reports suggested an AR-15. That may not be the case now. It may have been a shotgun. Somewhere this mentally disturbed man has gotten a hold of a gun and taken it into the Naval Yard and killed 12 people. That's what happened with Adam Lanza. That's what happened with Holmes in Aurora. There's got to be a moment, a tipping point when America looks at itself and says, enough.

I urge people to watch this interview with the Warrens because they've been decimated by guns now. All the families at the Naval Yard yesterday are devastated by guns. I still have contact with some of the families at Sandy Hook. They'll never recover from what happened to them. And yet, the only answer, it seems to me, and I'm an outsider here. I'm British. We don't have this gun culture in my country.

But the only answer in America to all these tragedies seems to be that the NRA come out and say if only everybody else had a gun, they would have killed the shooter and more guns get sold. There are more guns in circulation. Yet, yesterday the Naval Yard is one of the most secure bases imaginable. It's crawling in armed security.

Still, somebody could get in because he got access to a gun and was mentally deranged. It's the lethal cocktail. Look at this guy's background. He was mentally ill. He was hearing voices. He was having treatment. He'd had several gun-related incidents in the past. He was somebody obsessed with violent video games to a dangerous degree, said his friends.

Yet, he could still get his hands on a gun and go and do what he did. At some stage, America has to wake up.

TAPPER: All right, Piers Morgan. Thanks. His interview with the Warrens will air tonight at 9:00. We'll be right back.

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