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CEO versus Worker Pay could be Disclosed; Feds Crack Down on Food Stamp Fraud; France Could Ban Child Pageants; Celebrating Diversity in the U.S.; The Frenzy over "Breaking Bad"

Aired September 19, 2013 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

You're now going to find out how much your boss makes, really. Wall Street's top regulators were posing a rule to force publicly traded companies to release that kind of information. Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange. Really?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I kind of laugh at this, because what better way to kind of fan the flames when it comes to CEO pay debates that go on, you know make their salaries public.

So the SEC agreed this week to draft this new rule. Basically forcing these publicly traded companies to disclose what its CEOs get paid in comparison to how much their other workers make. The AFL-CIO, according to them, they say the average CEO makes $12 million -- the average worker $35,000. The highest paid CEOs are Larry Ellison, Oracle's CEO. He makes $96 million. Elon Musk, he's the CEO for Tesla, he makes $78 million.

Now no surprise here Carol, big business lobbied against this rule. Saying it -- you know, it's going to be really tough to clause all these data. Companies already, by the way, have to disclose pay of its top five executives. But the thing is this would take it to a whole new level -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Alison Kosik live at the New York Stock Exchange, thank you.

The deadly floods in several Colorado counties could cost homeowner, businesses and the government nearly $2 billion. But unlike most natural disasters, many of those losses are not covered by private insurance. In several areas, rescue efforts are slowly turning to recovery. And in Boulder, just a handful of people remain unaccounted for.

You can help the victims of the Colorado floods. Just log on to CNN.com/impact.

NEWSROOM will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COSTELLO: Congress could vote as early as today on a Republican-led bill that would cut $40 billion from food stamps over ten years. It would do that by restricting who was eligible for food stamps.

This comes as a new Census Bureau data shows the number of people using food stamps growing. Now 13.6 percent of households -- that's up five percent from the height of the recession in 2008. Complicating matters, the feds are cracking down on food stamp fraud across the country. In fact, this week in Detroit, nine store owners and managers were accused of illegally exchanging food stamps for cash. Another ten were charged in Baltimore. Prosecutors say store owners scam taxpayers out of millions of dollars.

Joining me now to talk about the investigation is U.S. attorney Rod Rosenstein. Good morning, sir.

ROD ROSENSTEIN, U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF MARYLAND (via telephone): Good morning, Carol, how are you?

COSTELLO: I'm pretty good. So tell us exactly what was happening in the city of Baltimore?

ROSENSTEIN: Well these ten defendants were charged following an investigation by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, along with support by the FBI. In the course of that investigation, evidence was uncovered that led to these charges, that ten defendants associated with eight retail stores in Baltimore, were engaged in what we call food stamp trafficking. What that means is the defendants allegedly traded food stamp credits for cash instead of food.

COSTELLO: How widespread is this problem?

ROSENSTEIN: Well the USDA estimates that the rate of fraud associated with the food stamp program is relatively low. Their latest estimate is 1.3 percent. Now, as fraud program, as fraud goes, that's a relatively low rate. But in terms of absolute numbers, you're still talking about close to $1 billion in fraud. So it's become a very high priority for the Department of Justice and agriculture department to root out that fraud.

COSTELLO: I notice this went on in Baltimore and in Detroit. Is this a nationwide effort?

ROSENSTEIN: The USDA I know is making efforts nationwide. Now they're limited by the enforcement resources they have available. I believe they have just over 100 agents nationwide. And so the goal is in the enforcement actions we take to get the maximum impact, to prosecute significant offenders and to make sure that we send a broader message to deter other people from violating the law.

COSTELLO: Rod Rosenstein, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

ROSENSTEIN: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Now we want to turn to Republican Congressman Andy Harris from Maryland to talk about the politics of food stamps and what exactly we should do. Good morning Congressman.

REP. ANDY HARRIS (R), MARYLAND: Good morning Carol.

COSTELLO: So tell us about this bill to change who is eligible for food stamps.

HARRIS: Well what this bill does is it takes the program, which of course has doubled in the past three years, and says what we want to do is take out some waste fraud and abuse and we want to decrease the program by five percent.

But you know as you have just heard, waste, fraud and abuse occurs in the program; 10.5 percent of the stores that participate in food stamps are engaged in trafficking. So we think that if we just eliminate the waste, fraud and abuse, we'll actually have more money to get to the people who need it.

COSTELLO: So -- so the federal government seems to already be doing this. You just heard from the U.S. attorney from Baltimore talking about that. You do think there is a need, a real need out there, to be on food stamps for many people.

HARRIS: Absolutely. Again, but we want to get food stamps into the hands of those people who deserve it. Not, as in the case of Baltimore, the one small store owner who defrauded the government for $2 million. That's $2 million that didn't get into the hands of needy recipients.

COSTELLO: So -- so the amount Republicans want to cut is $40 billion over ten years. Critics say that's an arbitrary figure, way too much, when the poverty rate in this country now stands at more than 13 percent.

HARRIS: Well as I said Carol it's a five percent decrease. When we know there is 10.5 percent of the stores that take food stamps are engaged in trafficking, so we know the fraud stands at 10 percent of the stores. We only want to cut five percent. That ought to leave more money getting to the hands of the people who do need it. And there are millions of Americans who need that benefit.

COSTELLO: But if you -- if you change the requirement, some people will be thrown, you know, some people will be eliminated for qualifying for food stamps. There are critics who say that those people need them too. And -- and how do you decide who needs food stamps and who doesn't? I mean is there some study that says how many people are on the rolls right now who are not deserving?

HARRIS: Well, again, there's the one -- one study that's showed by the Department of Agriculture 10.5 percent of stores are committing fraud. And you know what we're doing is we're just saying, look, if you're going to -- if we're going to help you with food stamps, and we are, then we need you to either work, look for employment, if you're able-bodied, not disabled and able to work.

Either be working, look for work, or engage in job training. We think that's a commonsense tradeoff for getting help from the American taxpayer that needy people need.

COSTELLO: Well some might say that it's easy to say, you know, get some job training, get a new job, get a better paying job, but there aren't that many jobs available at this particular time in our economy to accomplish that. Or is there, in your mind?

HARRIS: Well no look, clearly this economy is stagnant. There is no question about it. We have very different ideas from the President on how to get that you know job engine going. But we're not telling people they have to be employed but that they have to seek employment or they have to seek job training. That's reasonable. That's the hand up, as well as -- as well as the hand out when in need.

So we think that's the -- that's the -- the double-punch people need. They need to get the aid, and we need to be giving them a hand up to getting a job and ultimately reducing the amount of people who need food stamps.

COSTELLO: But don't we have to create the jobs first? And I only ask you that because yesterday, I interviewed the CEO of Panera Bread. He's taking this food stamp challenge. And I asked him if he thinks food stamps are enabling people. And here's what he had to say. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON SHAICH, CEO PANERA BREAD: One in six Americans, 48 million Americans are -- are food insecure. Now, are there people in that group that are taking advantage of it in some way? I'm sure there are.

On the other hand, are there people who have real need? Absolutely. And the question we each individually have to ask is what kind of society we want. What does it mean? And how do we want to live?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Your response to that.

HARRIS: I couldn't agree with him more. We have to help those people in need. But again and he agrees, there are people who are getting it who probably shouldn't be. Again, we know 10 percent of stores are trafficking in food stamps, 10 percent of stores that take it. We know there's waste, fraud and abuse. We think that it's reasonable to say, let's -- we know there's probably 10 percent when you combine people who probably should be working or are looking for a job or in job training, plus the stores that shouldn't be trafficking. We're only asking for a five percent decrease in a time of budgetary crisis where, you know, this is -- this being put up against, you know, funding the NIH for basic medical research.

I mean this is against putting money into defense. So we are -- we're saying, look, let's be smart with the dollars we have, help the people who need it and help the people, again who can work, get a job, find a job. Obviously, in this -- in this economy, you're going to have a lot of people who can't get a job right now. No question about it. Everybody agrees this economy is stagnant. But we have to -- we have to at least make the offer of job training and encourage people to do that in order to -- when this recession is finally over, God knows when, let's go ahead and get them back on the wood --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: You know I hear you about, I hear you about the job training but who exactly is going to do that? And where's the money going to come from -- from that? Because the savings that you're going to save from cutting this $40 billion from the food stamp roll, for lack a better term, is not going to go to job training.

HARRIS: Oh, we have billions of dollars in job training. There are 41 different programs the federal government provides grants for and moneys for, that provides job training in the states, 41 different programs.

So we have a lot of programs. We have to just get these to the people who need them most. And I think that the people who require federal help, federal food stamp help in times of need are people who we ought to be doing more than just giving them food stamps. We ought to do but then we ought to be also getting them the job training. Or -- or jobs you know getting this economy going. This is part of a larger effort to say, look, let's get America back to where it was. Remember, the number of people on food stamps has doubled in the last three years. We've got to reverse that trend. And one way to do it is get this economy going again.

COSTELLO: All right Congressman Andy Harris, thanks so much for joining me this morning, I appreciate it.

HARRIS: My pleasure, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Miss America addresses her history-making win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA DAVULURI, MISS AMERICA: I wanted to be the first Indian Miss America, to be that symbol of a new face for the organization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Why she says she is proof positive the girl next door is evolving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A bid to prevent girls from being sexualized too early could mean the end of child beauty pageants in one country -- talking about France. The French Parliament currently considering a measure that would do just that. And while it is still has to pass their lower house, some in the United States are asking if we should follow suit.

CNN's Kelly Wallace has more for you. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Little girls in makeup and heels going head to head in pageants. It's been reality TV ratings gold here in the U.S. But if lawmakers in France get their way, there'll be no French Honey Boo-Boo.

The country's senate voted to ban pageants for kids under 16. The measure will now go to the Lower House for a vote.

The anti-child pageant momentum in France was partly fueled by this controversial photo spread in French "Vogue", a then 10-year-old model in heavy makeup and sexy clothing. Critics argue these competitions sexualize girls at too young an age.

WENDY WALSH, LICENSED PSYCHOLOGIST: You're basically telling a young girl that her visual, her physical self is far more important than her emotional intelligence or her intellectual intelligence.

WALLACE: But Anna Berry says her 13-year-old daughter, Ashley, overcame extreme shyness competing in pageants. And now, Ashley gives speeches around the country talking about her experience with bullying. Berry tells CNN, "I know without a doubt that my 13-year- old can out interview anyone and speak more confidently than most adults."

Some psychologists are concerned about normalizing behavior for young girls that would have once been considered extreme.

WALSH: Now, it seems OK for a little girl, a six-year-old to be walking in thigh-high boots and short booty shorts and smacking her butt while she's dancing down a runway? Come on, that's what a stripper does.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: It's hard to watch. I wasn't allowed to shave my legs until I was -- no, it was 12 years old. It's unbelievable. I'd like to know what you think about this. Go to my Facebook page, facebook.com/CarolCNN. There's a place for your comments. I'm interested to hear what you think about all of this.

Back here at home, there's a different kind of controversy in the pageant world after 24-year-old Nina Davuluri became the first Indian- American to be crowned Miss America. And while some say she's a trailblazer, others have lashed out on social media, claiming her heritage disqualifies her somehow from that title. For her part, she says she welcomes that debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINA DAVULURI, MISS AMERICA: It's something I've grown up with, with a stereotype, which is why I started my platform -- celebrating diversity through cultural competency. And that's the cause I've been promoting for three years now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

DAVULURI: And so I have always viewed Miss America as the girl next door but the girl next door is evolving as the diversity in America evolves. She's not who she was ten years ago and she's not going to be the same person come ten years down the road.

So now, going into this, I wanted to be the first Indian Miss America to be the symbol of a new face for the organization, hope, and let younger girls know that regardless of race, their socioeconomic status, their religion, that anyone can become not only Miss America but anything because I am living my American dream right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: She's so beautiful and well spoken. Becky Anderson is in London this morning. And Becky we all know about the backlash Nina received here in the United States.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

COSTELLO: But backlash in India too?

ANDERSON: Well, it's amazing, isn't it, Carol. You could argue these pageants are a relic of the past or outdated, outmoded, but the debate fueled by Nina's victory, is very, very 2013 as the U.S. argues about just how American or not the daughter of Indian immigrants is.

The irony is that in India she'd be too dark skinned to probably win Miss America. There was a sort of conventional standard of beauty in India these days, which says that you need to be fair-skinned. And that is very, very big business. The pigment or the paradox of pigment as it were is massive business, that skin whitening creams are absolutely huge; the preference for fairness in skin color, Carol, goes really, really deep into Indian culture.

If you look at marriage ads, and there are many, many of those in India, you often see grooms and brides being looked for who are of fair skin. So it is -- it seems sort of ironic, doesn't it, that somebody who is fighting a good fight in the States, as it were, for being American, in India, would probably stand absolutely no chance of winning the national pageant there. Remarkable stuff.

COSTELLO: It's just sad. It just makes me sad. And to the United States' credit, there are critics, but I think there are few. I think most Americans embrace this young woman.

ANDERSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: She's beautiful, she's well-spoken, and she's done more than one interview, and people are really listening to her.

ANDERSON: That's right. And in her interviews, she has said, she said during the pageant that she was opposed to plastic surgery, for example. She didn't talk about skin whitening creams herself. You're absolutely right. For every one nasty tweet, let's be quite frank about this, social media has been awash with really, really nasty things said about this girl. She said for every one bad tweet she's got since the pageant on Sunday, she's had 12 dozen, she says, of really supportive tweets.

She'll go out there. She's somebody who really embraces cultural diversity. She calls it sort of cultural competency. She wants to really make a difference, so she will and I'm absolutely sure about this.

But you know it's not just the debate in the States. She doesn't just face that sort of backlash there. But these remarkable debates that continue on in what seems, you know, seems ridiculous, doesn't it, in 2013, we're talking about things like skin whitening creams, but there you go. That is the reality, I'm afraid.

COSTELLO: I'm not into these beauty pageants either but in this particular case I'm glad she was crowned Miss America because she can actually accomplish something.

ANDERSON: Certainly.

COSTELLO: Becky Anderson, thank you.

One of television's most critically acclaimed shows, "Breaking Bad".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYAN CRANSTON, ACTOR: You brought a meth lab to the airport? Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said we were in a hurry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: There are only two episodes left and fans are on the edge of their couch waiting to see what terrible end is in store for Walter White. Here's CNN's Mark Istook.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRANSTON: Say my name.

MARK ISTOOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): People have been saying his name a lot lately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bryan Cranston, "Breaking Bad".

ISTOOK: Who would have predicted so much attention on a show about TV's scariest high school chemistry teacher who makes meth to pay for his cancer treatment?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it with you guys?

ISTOOK: good question. 13 Emmy nominations this year, critical acclaim, record ratings -- it's a good time to be bad.

MARY MCNAMARA, "L.A. TIMES": "Breaking Bad" is really hot. So people who maybe hadn't watched it are watching it now. ISTOOK: Are they ever. Almost six million people watched the midseason premiere -- a record for AMC. And they're not just watching, they're tweeting and blogging and breaking down "Breaking Bad".

MCNAMARA: You go online and it's like a deconstruction that used to be reserved for Shakespeare, for like, you know, honors papers on Shakespeare.

ISTOOK (on camera): And you can find plenty of that devotion here on YouTube. A quick search for "Breaking Bad" fan videos yields almost 400,000 results --

(voice over): -- whether it's the fake "Breaking Bad" sitcom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm talking with Ted.

ISTOOK: Or a Jimmy Fallon spoof, "Joking Bad".

JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: There's no end to what we can do.

ISTOOK: But there is an end to the show. And the closer it gets, the more everybody wants to know how the show will end. Well, almost everybody.

BOB ODENKIRK, ACTOR/PRODUCER: I don't want to know. I want to watch it just like you people. I'm just as much a fan as you are.

ISTOOK: But he won't be saying good-bye just yet. AMC recently announced a spinoff of Odenkirk's character.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Better call Sal.

ISTOOK: Perhaps has suspenseful as the show's ending, will the "Breaking Bad" buzz help come Emmy time?

MAGGIE FURLONG, HUFFINGTON POST: "Breaking Bad" is the show to beat -- period, end of statement. It's "Breaking Bad's" Year.

CRANSTON: Wouldn't it be great if we got a win.

ISTOOK: Cranston nabbed three straight Emmys for playing Walter White. Now he's just getting ready to say good-bye to what he's called the role of a lifetime.

CRANSTON: It's hard for me now that it's over to voluntarily let it go.

ISTOOK: Reporting from Hollywood, I'm Mark Istook and --

CRANSTON: This is CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Love that. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: A state trooper testing new sonar equipment may have just solved two, not one, two decades-old disappearances. Wait until you hear what we've learned about a pair of rusty cars filled with skeletal remains pulled from a murky Colorado lake.