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President Obama Blasts House Republicans; Chicago Gun Violence

Aired September 20, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You may have seen it here live, the president speaking in Missouri last hour after House Republicans voted once again to defund Obamacare. It's about the 40th time they have done so. Each time, they have come up empty because the Senate won't agree to it. It's just that simple.

But this time, the House Republicans coupled their anti-Obamacare bill to this measure, this continuing resolution to fund the government past September 30th.

That means this urgent bill to avert a government shutdown is dead on arrival in the Senate, because it now includes this anti-Obamacare provision, and Democrats considered Obamacare to be really his biggest achievement, as Republicans seem to think it a blunder.

Here was the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Republicans in Congress, they have tried to repeal or sabotage this more than 40 times. They have had these repeal votes. Every time, they fail.

This law that is in place is already providing people benefits. It's not holding back economic growth. It's helping millions of Americans, including some of you or your family members that you may not be aware of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I want to bring in another Republican to talk about this, CNN political commentator Ari Fleischer. He's also the former Bush II press secretary.

Ari Fleischer, nice to see you.

You know, I was talking to Newt Gingrich last hour, and he told me there is absolutely no problem with the Republicans coupling this bill to fund the government with this anti-Obamacare measure. He said, you know, Brooke, coupling legislation, happens all the time.

But my question to you, Ari, is this -- the government funding bill, this is emergency legislation, is it not? Why weigh it down with something that spells doom?

ARI FLEISCHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. The way Washington works, it's not going to be emergency legislation until about October 30 or October 31 -- 10 days out is forever the way they do it in Washington.

But, look, Brooke, if the president were to sign this bill, it would keep the government open and it would get rid of Obamacare. And that would actually be very popular among a lot of independents, ticket- splitters, moderates in this country. Obamacare has been an economic albatross across our country. It's making people move from full-time work to part-time work and making people lose their health insurance overall, and force them on to the exchange. So it would be popular.

The problem is the president won't sign it. And therefore, in the next 10 days, something needs to be done. The Senate won't pass it. Something needs to be done to keep the government open. I suspect this is just the preliminaries and the real work is about to happen.

BALDWIN: OK. What about your party? Let's talk Republicans because you have this divide now between the so-called moderates and then the so-called conservatives. And now you have these conservatives, they're fighting one another over who's fighting harder to kill Obamacare.

FLEISCHER: Yes.

BALDWIN: I want to play some sound. I know. Listen to this House Republican talking about Senate Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SEAN DUFFY (R), WISCONSIN: We are going to give them exactly what they have asked for, the opportunity to fight in the Senate on defunding Obamacare. You saw us explode with anger publicly when they stood up and start waving the white flag, saying, listen, we're not going to fight here. We're going to surrender. We can't win.

We have been abused by these guys for so long. What I see happening now is people coming out and calling them out for the hypocrisy of these big, tough, conservatives who know how to fight, but will never get in the ring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So I know, Ari Fleischer, you could come out and you could say, hey, Brooke, you know, a good debate is a healthy thing even within your party. But it's not unusual, is it not, to hear one Republican calling another Republican a fraud, which we heard last hour, and now you saw Republican Sean Duffy, we heard him right there, calling other Republicans hypocrites, all talk, no action.

FLEISCHER: This is internally destructive for the Republican Party. Republicans need to stop setting their sights on one another. They need to start doing what's best for the country.

The reality is, so long as the Senate is controlled by the Democrats and the president is President Obama, Obamacare is not going to be repealed. So it's disappointing when people raise expectations to give the indication that we can repeal it. All they do is let down the base of the party that would sorely love for it to be repealed.

It's just not realistic. What is realistic is to fund the government in the next 10 days, to fund it at the level that it's funded at last year, which is actually recognizing Republican victories, it recognizes cuts in spending which we got through, and it should kept at that funding level, and then on to the debt limit fight, which is going to be another problem. President Obama says he refuses to negotiate.

Well, that's just as obstructionist as anything else we have heard. Of course he has to negotiate. He's the president of the United States.

BALDWIN: This budget issue may just be the preview to the debacle that is the debt ceiling. I'm sure, Ari Fleischer, we will chat again. Mr. Fleischer, thank you very much. Nice to see you.

FLEISCHER: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Now I want you to take a look at this, this adorable little face. This is Deonta Howard. He is 3 years of age, and his family says he will need plastic surgery. It's not because of something he was born with. It's because of something seriously wrong with where he lives, Chicago.

Deonta was shot in the face, one of 13 people hit by gunfire just last night at a park on the city's South Side. Chicago police say today it was likely gang-related and his family is thankful little Deonta is expected to recover. But, as for Chicago, where gun violence has killed more than 300 this year alone, the frustration, the fatigue, you can hear it all in the voice you're about to hear.

Shundra Robinson's son Deon (sic) was murdered three years ago sitting on a porch in Chicago. And she was part of a group of activists, including parents from Newtown, calling this week for more gun control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHUNDRA ROBINSON, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: And everybody wants to talk about the Second Amendment right. What about our children? They have a right to live. You guys can leave here and go on with your lives. We have got to go on to empty rooms, because our children's lives were taken away by people who should not have had guns anyway.

Most of our children's lives were lost by people under 21. This universal background check is a start. We need healing, you guys. And it's a global thing. It's beyond an epidemic. This is genocide in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Her son Deno -- Deno -- forgive me. Shundra Robinson joins me live from Chicago.

Ms. Robinson, we played that actually earlier this week when you were on the Hill. I can hear your voice. I want to get to your personal story in a moment. But, if you can, just as a mother, given your perspective, can you just react to waking up this morning and hearing the news, 13 people shot, including a 3-year-old?

ROBINSON: My heart is so heavy. I have been crying all day and praying all day for the families, because I know how they feel.

And there's no words that can describe the feeling of losing a loved one or a loved one being shot, like I said, like animals on the street. And there is a big problem in America, in Chicago, definitely, and as well as America.

BALDWIN: And I thank you for coming on. I wanted to have the discussion with you.

There's so much talk, especially when we talk Chicago, about gang vs. gun. And I read an interview that you did with a Chicago TV station after Deno was killed. And you didn't deny, you know, that Deno was probably a gang member. You talked about, you know, being pulled in two different directions.

So, you know this better than anyone. Do you think in Chicago, is it a gang problem or is it a gun problem?

ROBINSON: It's bigger than a gang problem. We know that.

That's just a small entity, but it's definitely a gun problem. As I said before, in most of these cases, they were under 21. So how did they get guns? So it's bigger than a gang problem, much bigger.

BALDWIN: How did they get guns? If you, you know, are familiar with the culture, I have to presume much of it, is it illegal?

ROBINSON: I don't know how they're getting these guns. But we know that they're getting them illegally, of course. They're under 21.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ROBINSON: So how could they get guns in their hands? You know, so much gun trafficking going on, there's no telling how they got the guns.

BALDWIN: On the issue...

ROBINSON: Somebody knows.

BALDWIN: Several people know, I'm sure. But on the issue of guns, Ms. Robinson, there is -- it's a perspective from a colleague of mine. He's Don Lemon, and so he was on this radio show and he was wondering out loud, basically, if lawmakers aren't enacting tougher laws, which I know you and folks with the Newtown families were calling for. You know, that might mean, and I'm quoting Don, that by some of us not owning a gun or at least embracing the idea of one, are we setting ourselves up to be victims in a movie theater, in a school, a public building, most of all in our streets, in our own neighborhoods and in our own homes, and armed with just our cell phones, our fists, and our wits, are we setting ourselves up to be sitting ducks?

Does he have a point at all? Are we defenseless?

ROBINSON: Yes, we are setting ourselves up.

And I believe that's what has to happen. It has to hit some of their homes for them to realize that it's bigger than an urban community issue. It's bigger than black-on-black crime. As I said, Newtown can justify that, as well as Washington, on a Naval base.

This is a big issue that has to be dealt with. We cannot continue to put a Band-Aid on it and nurse it like it's just a scratch. This is a cut. This is a deep wound that is infected. You know, just like when you get gangrene on your foot, you have to cut it off. This has to be dealt with, and it has to be dealt with soon.

We cannot wait any longer. How many more lives have to be lost, as I said before, before they deal with this issue?

BALDWIN: Shundra Robinson, I'm sorry about your son. Thank you so much for coming on.

ROBINSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, do you remember this man?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK KESSLER, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: Here's what I got to say. If you didn't get enough the first time around, go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yourself and get some more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is a small-town Pennsylvania sheriff who had a pretty stern message for anyone who he thought was threatening his Second Amendment rights, including some city council members. And now those city council members have a message for him.

Plus, a controversial school field trip, students pretending to be in a slave ship, picking cotton, even having slave masters, at one point even called the N-word, an education in history or a lesson gone too far? We will ask the man who runs the program coming up.

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BALDWIN: A small-town Pennsylvania police chief is out of a job today. He was fired for profane pro-gun rants he posted on YouTube.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KESSLER: Here's what I got to say. If you didn't get enough the first time around, go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yourself and get some more. You get that? Did you get that one? Huh? You bunch of (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The Gilberton, Pennsylvania, town council voted 6-1 to dismiss Chief Mark Kessler last night. He got national attention for these videos. Kessler said he was demonstrating his First and Second Amendment rights with the videos. He had been suspended since the 31st of July when the first clip was posted to YouTube.

All right, parents, if your child came home and told you that the N- word was shouted at your child, and they were told to act like slaves for a history lesson while on a school field trip, would you be outraged? Well, the parents of a girl who went on this trip without their knowledge are incredibly upset and they're not giving up until leaders at this one Connecticut school are reprimanded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDRA BAKER, PARENT: The fact that they used the N-word, I mean, how dare you do that, say that to my child and call it an educational experience? How dare you say that to any child?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: On that field trip to Nature's Classroom in Massachusetts, Sandra Baker says the students were tricked or basically coerced into this slavery reenactment. Baker's daughter said the instructor told her that during this enactment that -- quote -- "If I were to run, they would whip me until I bled on the floor and then either cut my Achilles, so I couldn't run again, or hang me." That's a quote from this daughter.

Hartford Public Schools declined to comment, according to our sister network HLN.

But I want to bring in John Santos, director of Nature's Classroom, where this field trip happened.

So, Mr. Santos, welcome.

Just to get your side of the story here, it is one thing to learn about slavery and its history, and it's quite another, sir, to have seventh graders have racial slurs, you know, hurled at them. I have to ask, what were you thinking?

JOHN SANTOS, DIRECTOR, NATURE'S CLASSROOM: Let me absolutely say that if this was brought to my attention in December, I would have apologized for such a terminology to be used during this event.

I'm at a disadvantage only in reference to saying clearly that we have been in operation for the past 40 years. We have done this format 20 years. Our instructors are people on bachelor and master's level, average age around 25, 26. Within the staff, they would not use the N-word. I really do find, I'm not absolutely disputing it could have been used, but it's not in the general format, no.

BALDWIN: So, just so I'm clear, as the director of this program, you had no previous knowledge of this ever happening? You wouldn't dispute it happening, but you were unaware? Is that what you're telling me?

SANTOS: I would absolutely, because of the number of staffs and how many times we have done this program format. It's a two-hour, three- hour activity. It's been done with over 200 schools participating, yes.

BALDWIN: When you say...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Forgive me. But when you say it, you mean throwing a bunch of students in a dark room and being -- pretending to be slaves and being yelled at?

SANTOS: The activity is called underground railroad. It's a process of explaining the activity to the young people.

And it really is a situation where I'm not going to deny Nature's Classroom's responsibility or put it on to anyone else. But it's one of many activities that we offer. And it's not an activity that has been challenged to this magnitude or, to the best of my knowledge, to any great magnitude at all.

Our instructors are with the young people. They're watching over young people. Young people are very -- asked to bail out of the activity at the beginning of the activity. During the activity hour, staff are -- eyes on the young people. The visiting school personnel are on the eyes of the young person.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I understand. And listen -- sorry for interrupting, but I remember going on -- I'm from the South. I went on an underground railroad field trip. And it was just literally sitting in a classroom and learning the history of it. It wasn't anything like this.

And I just wanted to also remember, a bunch of seventh graders, they may be told, hey, you can opt out, but it's kind of a group mentality in the seventh grade. Do you think these seventh graders are going to say, hey, no?

SANTOS: I would say it's a judgment call that I'm responsible for.

But it's also a judgment call that I would say is debatable. At what point do we expose young people to the past? At an age-appropriate -- inappropriate, second, third grade, I would say no. But at the seventh grade level, I would say it's quite debatable. And I'm not going to be wishing to be the last word, and I'm not passing on the buck, but our services are to schools. (CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But when you say exposing the young people, isn't there a bit of a difference between learning history and reliving history, sir?

SANTOS: There is a difference. And I'm of the attitude that reliving history is a viable activity when appropriate to acknowledge and do.

BALDWIN: So clearly, there are a lot of parents that disagree with you.

I guess, at the end of the day...

(CROSSTALK)

SANTOS: Oh, I would absolutely say...

BALDWIN: At the end of the day, and I will let you finish in a second, but are you going to change because of the myriad complaints over what happened to these kids? Are you going to do away with this or will you continue having them relive history?

SANTOS: When we were contacted by the state, Connecticut State, we have revised and rewritten.

The activity is still one of the activities, one of some 300 activities that a school would ultimately decide. We have passed on an information letter to schools alerting them to this particular incident so that they can go forward and decide that as well.

Within Nature's Classroom, we have analyzed and we have actually understand the validity of the complaint. It's one reenactment. It is not a big thing for us or for a school to decide not to become involved with it.

BALDWIN: OK. We will leave it there.

SANTOS: Not to belittle the experience at all.

BALDWIN: John Santos, Nature's Classroom director, thanks for coming on.

Coming up -- coming up, a movement to empower women who have been victimized by rape. This whole thing started with about two dozen women holding up signs that show what the rapists were saying to them during their attack. And now more than 2,000 are part of this growing movement. It has gone global. We're going to talk live to the person who came up with the idea for the Project Unbreakable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: More than half the kids in this country are growing up without fathers at home. Census data shows that number is nearly 70 percent for African-American children in Baltimore.

And that brings us to this week's CNN Hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JONES, CNN HERO: I sold drugs on and off throughout my life. The tattoos when I first got them was war paint. I didn't think about my son. I did not think about my family. They did not exist.

I have not met one man who didn't want to be a good dad. They just dote know how to be good dads. What male has helped to shape who you are? We had young men who didn't have fathers in their own lives and the cycle of father absence repeated, and we want them to change that for their children.

I'm Joe Jones. I work to help fathers and families become responsible for themselves, their children, and their communities. I was 9 years old when my dad left the house. I began using drugs when I was 13. I spent time in jail consistently and I also had a son that I wasn't responsible for.

There's no reason why you can't get out of the hole regardless of what your circumstances are, I'm telling you. There aren't many spaces in the community where men can go that are safe and constructive and healthy.

We recruit on the street because you have to penetrate the community.

Responsible fatherhood, that's the stuff that we're doing. That's why we built the center.

You can make mistakes, but you can cover those mistakes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe has allowed me to find and restore my dignity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We currently have six classes left for you to take. You're almost done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's one of the greatest things that you can offer anyone.

JONES: When you see someone and they got that pride, that light in their eye is relit, their potential is unlimited. They're showing their little boys and little girls what it means to be a man and what it means to be a dad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So awesome, CNN Heroes.

Hillary Clinton is tight-lipped about a possible 2016 presidential run, but she told -- she has told Bill Clinton about what she's going to do, right? CNN's Fareed Zakaria sat down with the former president and asked him. We will hear what Bill Clinton said next.

But, first, a technovation workshop based on a fitness club. Here's a preview of this week's "THE NEXT LIST."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This week on "The Next List" putting ideas to work. Jim Newton is a lifelong do it yourselfer who is passionate about making.

JIM NEWTON, INNOVATOR: Humans were made to make things. That's why we have thumbs. We've gotten away from making so much. There's that instinctive drive for people to create.

GUPTA: It's one of the reasons he started Tech Shop. It's an innovation workshop where members can have access to the tools they need to bring their ideas to life.

NEWTON: They say, wow, I really can do this. This is stunning. They're stunned.

GUPTA: And Graham Hill, who is a designer, an entrepreneur, who believes people would be a lot happier with less.

GRAHAM HILL, DESIGNER: I love things and I love having great things, but I don't want too many. I don't want to be overwhelmed.

GUPTA: Hill built his dream micro-apartment, by crowd sourcing design on the Internet and he got some amazing ideas. But the best part of living with less more freedom.

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Join me this Saturday at 2:30 Eastern on "THE NEXT LIST."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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