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World Leaders Gather at U.N.; Forces Launch Assault; FBI Investigating if Americans Involved; Iran Signals Willingness to Talk; President Obama Speaks at United Nations General Assembly Tomorrow; Seven Days Until Possible Government Shutdown; Gun Debate

Aired September 23, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now authorities are questioning at least 10 people in connection with that deadly shopping mall attack in Kenya. Security forces claim they have taken control of the mall. We're going live to Nairobi.

Also right now, President Obama's arriving here at the United Nations. He meets with the Nigerian president in a few minutes. We're going to listen in to see if he says anything about that terrible mall attack in Kenya. I suspect he will.

And the president is in good company. Right now leaders from all over the world, they are gathering here in New York City for the annual United Nations General Assembly.

I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from here at the United Nations where officials from almost 200 countries will meet this week. Iran's new president sure to make headlines.

Also, prospects for peace in Syria. We're going to have extensive live coverage of the U.N. General Assembly, that's coming up.

But first we turn to the story that's held the world's attention since Saturday. We're talking about Kenya. Kenyan authorities say they have arrested more than 10 people in the deadly assault on a Nairobi shopping mall. The hostage standoff now in its third day.

Here's the latest information coming in. Authorities say they have taken full control of the mall after an assault that killed three attackers. But gunfire erupted since their assault and it's not clear how many hostages may still be inside.

Earlier, black smoke was seen billowing from the mall. Kenyan officials say the smoke was from the fire set by the attackers. The Red Cross now says 62 people, 62 people have died since the siege began. That number, by the way, was revised down from 69. Authorities say some of the bodies earlier had been counted twice. Nearly 200 people have been injured in the attack.

The tense situation is unfolding minute by minute in Kenya. Gunfire continuing to break out. Our own Zain Verjee, watch this, she had to take cover as she was getting ready for a report earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we have the helmets? Where is the helmet?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) are safe. She's joining us now live from Nairobi.

Zain, Kenyan authorities claim they have taken control of the mall. From where you are, and you're there on the scene for us, do you get a sense they actually are in control of the situation right now?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They made a statement earlier saying, yes, they're in control of the four-story west gate mall, Wolf. And then, a short while later, there was sporadic gunfire and everybody had to take cover. I made some calls about that. And what I was told was that, yes, they were in control however, at that moment, there were pockets of Al Qaeda or Al-Shabaab and they were fighting back. There was heavy gunfire exchanges between the security forces and the militants.

Since then, Wolf, it's been a number of hours now, it's been totally silent, both gunfire, no explosions and also total silent on information. We're just trying to put together and get some kind of clarification because where I am with the medics and the emergency response, they've been told to pack up. Typically in a hostage situation, we would see the freed hostages or get some information about them but there's nothing. I asked about the gunmen, also nothing.

I've spoken to a couple of sources that are in contact with officials on the ground there that say that it's pretty much clear inside. So, I'm just trying to put the pieces together and understand where are the hostages? What happened? And do they have the gunmen? Where are the bodies, if any? And did anyone come out alive? We don't have the answers to any of these questions. There is -- certainly, the operation is said to be over. These are outstanding issues.

Zain, I know you're from Kenya, your family still lives there and they frequent this popular mall in Nairobi. First of all, how's the -- how are you doing? How are your family doing? What's the mood there? People must be in shock.

VERJEE: Yes. I mean, I'm pretty miserable. This is just crazy. It just feels totally surreal. My family is just tense. And that's three of us here. Millions of Kenyans are totally shocked at what's happened. People that are living in this area go to West Gate like, you know, you have your Starbucks latte every morning. You know, it's just what you do. And so, this is a part of everyday life. There's another place there that everybody kind of meets. It's a chicken place and a place where (INAUDIBLE.) And it's a real social community gathering location. And so, it's completely transformed the lives of people around here. And it's still a situation that, as far as people around here are concerned, is ongoing.

So, it may technically be over per the statement but people are traumatized and shocked, especially at the horrible stories and the brutal description that were starting to emerge and the cold blooded killing of children, of women, both Muslim and non-Muslim, that occurred at this mall. So, everyone is kind of wrapping their heads around that and the funerals also have started to take place. So, that's something that we're also learning about.

BLITZER: All right, Zain, be careful, please. And we'll stay in very close touch with you and our best wishes to your parents and everyone else there as well. Zain Verjee on the scene for us in Nairobi.

People were going about their business shopping at this popular mall on a Saturday afternoon. Then all of a sudden, the shooting started. Terrified employees and shoppers crouched behind displays. A North Carolina woman who had moved to Nairobi only in July hid behind the metal gates of a store with dozens of others.

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BENDITA MALAKIA: While we were back there, they methodically end up going from store to store talking to people, asking questions, shooting, screams and then it would stop for a while and then they would go to another store.

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BLITZER: The State Department says five Americans were among the 175 people wounded in this brutal attack. One of them, a University of California Berkeley graduate from San Diego.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ELAINE DANE: I'm OK. I'm very grateful to be alive. I'm also very grateful for, like, the Kenyan people. Everyone was so helpful and supportive. I don't want people thinking that -- something about Kenya. Like, I'm very prideful for the country, and I love Kenyans even though I'm American.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: The group Al-Shabaab says it did carry out the attack. The FBI now investigating claims by the Al Qaeda affiliate that Americans were involved. Let's bring in our Justice Reporter Evan Perez. Evan, I know you're speaking with your sources there at the Justice Department, the FBI. They're trying to figure this out. What's the latest we're getting?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Wolf, the confusion and the claims that Zain Verjee reported from in Nairobi is exactly what U.S. law enforcement is dealing with as well. The FBI has a -- has a -- has a pretty big operation in Nairobi. It's a regional center where they keep an eye on things in Somalia and the -- and East Africa. So, they are at the scene. They're working with Kenyan law enforcement. They're sharing intelligence information. We know that they're looking at communications, intercepts, that kind of thing to try to figure out which claims from Al-Shabaab to believe. Whether or not they're Americans or other westerners who were involved. They're still not confirmed, at this moment. They're working to try to figure that out. It may well be until they figure out if -- until they arrest the suspects that are inside or those that are killed for them to do identification work for them to get this -- get this all figured out. Right now, there's still -- there's still so many questions -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It's a very, very murky situation. Evan, thanks very much. Stay with us. We'll have much more coverage of the Kenya mall attack at 1:30 p.m. Eastern. A little bit -- for a little while from now, about 20 minutes or so. The former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes, a CNN Analyst, he will join us live. We're going to talk about the challenge of rescuing the remaining hostages inside, ways to keep shopping malls safe. Tom Fuentes standing by to join us.

I'm here at the United Nations as the 68th General Assembly gets underway. The highlight in -- is the general debate which speakers -- features speakers from most of the 193-member nations. President Obama arrived here in New York just a few moments ago. He's expected to meet with a couple of the world leaders here at the General Assembly before the formal speeches kick off tomorrow. The United States traditionally is second, second on the speakers' list right after Brazil. Others we will be watching closely, of course, Syria, Israel, Afghanistan, Palestine which is considered a state by the U.N. General Assembly.

Tomorrow afternoon the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, addresses the United Nations General Assembly. And there's a different mood than in years past when it is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad taking the podium. Now, there's talk of an actual possible meeting between presidents Rouhani and Obama. But here's former secretary of state Henry Kissinger's assessment of that idea.

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HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: (INAUDIBLE) that building with great energy a nuclear program and I would be more at ease if the meeting of the presidents occurred at the end of some diplomatic achievement. But I can see the temptations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's discuss what's going on with our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto. He's here covering the U.N. as well. So, to what -- first of all, do we know for sure there will be a meeting between President Obama and President Rouhani?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No, we don't know. The White House saying they were open to outreach but there is no meeting as yet on the schedule. And they also say that any of these aren't going to happen by accident, just an accidental meeting in the hallway with a relationship as important as this. What we can expect though from President Rouhani's speech is a radically different approach than we heard from President Ahmadinejad in the past. So, no America baiting, none of the holocaust denial, a more general message of outreach.

But also, I think it's unlikely to have a specific proposal in that speech, for instance, on Iran's nuclear program. If anything like that's going to happen, it would happen in side, for instance, when the P-5 Plus 1 (ph), the permanent five members plus Germany, those foreign ministers meet with the Iranian foreign minister this week. That meeting will include Secretary John Kerry.

BLITZER: There was an exchange of letters between the presidents, President Rouhani and Obama. And President Rouhani even sent a new year's greeting worldwide to the Jewish community on Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year's, which a lot of people thought was at least symbolically significant.

SCIUTTO: No question. This is and has been said to be by many Iran watchers, and I've been there a number of times as well, clearly the most significant outreach from Iran since the 1979 resolution -- revolution. So, of course, the question now is what does that lead to that's -- that is concrete? And that's something that Capitol Hill is watching, too.

The president just received a letter from senators Menendez and Lindsey Graham saying, we urge you to make clear the United States goal of achieving a diplomatic solution but also our resolve to take whatever action is necessary to prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon. And that, of course, remains the administration's position here that they will -- that military action remains on the table while they are open to a diplomatic resolution.

BLITZER: Because usually -- and Henry Kissinger was alluding to this. Before a meeting like this, and there hasn't been a meeting between American and Iranian leaders since the 1979 takeover of the U.S. embassy in Tehran. They're lower level dialogue, lesser officials, shall we say, lower ranking officials, that begin the process. Even Henry Kissinger probably thinking of China when he opened the doors to China. But there were contacts that were going on before Nixon -- President Nixon actually went to China and I assume that's what he's referring to.

SCIUTTO: No question. I think it's interesting here that the stakes have been raised so high, all of us talking about this and many other diplomats, about the possibility of a meeting. And the White House not denying it. The Iranian side not denying either. So, almost -- you set those expectations high so that if you don't have the meeting, it might be considered a step back. But in reality, I think we have to say, look at where we were just two weeks ago and before this election by President Rouhani. A radically different approach from both sides to U.S. Iranian relations.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see what happens. And maybe there have been some secret dialogues going on that we just don't know about. At some point down the road, we might --

SCIUTTO: I'll be the first to tell you if I hear.

BLITZER: Jim Sciutto, he's going to be here all week with us at the United Nations. By the way, we'll have live coverage tomorrow of President Obama's address before the United Nations' General Assembly, so stay with us for that. Seven days now until the U.S. government runs out of a lot of money. And now, the ball is clearly in the U.S. Senate's court. Will they let it pass? Will they smash it back to the House of Representatives? We're going live to Capitol Hill. Much more of our special coverage coming up right after this.

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BLITZER: President Obama now here in New York. He's getting ready to come over to the U.N. General Assembly. He's speaking tomorrow morning. In the meantime, shortly he's going to be meeting with the president of Nigeria. At the top, we expect some comments. We're covering it. I assume the president will want to say something about the brutal massacre at the mall in Nairobi, Kenya. Stand by for that. We'll bring it to you as soon as we get it.

But there's other news we're following, including that very high stakes battle on Capitol Hill in Washington. Get this, we're only seven days away from a possible government shutdown. Both sides say that's not what they want. But we seem to be heading in that direction anyway. Last week the House of Representatives approved a bill to keep the government running for a few more months. But in that bill, they also took away the funding for the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. This week, the Senate votes and that's where it's getting interesting.

Let's bring in our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. She's watching all of this.

So walk us through the schedule. Seven days left. Dana, what's the latest?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that nobody thinks that the votes are there in the Senate, the Democratic-led Senate, to defund Obamacare. Even Ted Cruz, the Republican from Texas who is leading this fight, admits that. So let's start there.

That means that Senate Democrats believe that they have the votes to strip that out and pass a straight spending bill to keep the government running through the middle of December. The question at hand is, how long are the opponents of Obamacare going to play this out. I want to put that calendar back up to give you a sense of how things could play out this week.

Today is one week away from the end of the fiscal year, September 30th. It is possible That Ted Cruz and his few Republicans who have been demanding that spending is linked to defunding Obamacare could play this outside procedurally. They have the tools to do so until Sunday the 29th. So the day before the end of the fiscal year.

Assuming that the votes are where everybody thinks they are, that eventually, even after it plays out, Obamacare -- the defunding of Obamacare is stripped out, the government is funded, it goes back to the House, then that Republican-led House would probably have a day to decide whether or not they want to do something else or they will just agree to pass, keeping the government running, pass this level of funding for the next couple of months and that -- a lot of that depends on whether the votes are there, which they weren't in the past.

Republican sources, Democratic sources on both sides of the Capitol have said to us privately that they believe that that is likely going to happen. The Republicans in the House will be able to pass funding the government with the help of Democrats. But, Wolf, as we've seen, there's so much that has been happening here that is unpredictable when it comes to the matters of spending and the president's health care law that we just - we don't know. I mean there's no question that nobody wants the government to shut down, but we just have to see how this plays out because it is likely to go right down to the wire.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens. Obviously, seven days to go and next weekend, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, will be critical in this process. Usually they wait until the last minute to resolve it if they're going to resolve it. No guarantee they will this time. We'll watch. Dana, thank you.

Up next, last week's Navy Yard shooting sparking renewed debate about gun control in America. The president delivers a very powerful eulogy, lashing out against what he calls the new normal when it comes to guns. The NRA unwilling to yield as of right now. Gloria Borger is standing by to join us. We'll break down the latest in this continuing debate.

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BLITZER: The gun control debate flaring up once again after last week's Navy Yard massacre exactly one week ago today. President Obama is calling for some sort of transformation when it comes to American gun laws. He gave a very, very passionate eulogy on Sunday at a memorial service for the 12 people who were killed. It marks the fifth time in his presidency that he's grieved with families after a mass violence. President Obama condemned what he called a creeping resignation about gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our tears are not enough. Our words and our prayers are not enough. If we really want to honor these 12 men and women, if we really want to be a country where we can go to work and go to school and walk our streets free from senseless violence without so many lives being stolen by a bullet from a gun, then we're going to have to change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Earlier Sunday, the NRA president had quite a different take on what went wrong that day at the Navy Yard. Wayne Lapierre appeared on "Meet the Press."

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WAYNE LAPIERRE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NRA: The problem is, there weren't enough good guys with guns. When the good guys with guns got there, it stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, is joining us now from Washington.

Gloria, is there any reason to believe chances have improved for passage of some sort of comprehensive background check or other major gun control since the Navy Yard attack last Monday?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, Wolf, there really isn't. And I think that's why you saw a president that seemed so really drained by this argument, frustrated by it. He seemed to be talking to the American public more in sorrow than in anger. But I think if you didn't see something after Newtown, that this is not likely to change legislators' minds. And Joe Manchin, who was one of the co-sponsors of comprehensive gun control, basically told reporters last week, look, I'm not going to put myself out on the line here because - again because I don't see any votes changing. So if you're counting ayes and nays up there, you're not going to get any more votes in terms of comprehensive legislation. Just isn't happening.

BLITZER: Did you sense, Gloria, something different in the tone of the president's speech yesterday at that memorial service?

BORGER: I think so, Wolf. I think he seems kind of drained by it. As he pointed out, this is -- he's done this now a handful of times, had to speak to families, console families, talk to the American public about this random gun violence in our midst. And I think he just seemed frustrated but kind of ultimately resigned and his message sort of was, look, I can't do this on my own. Believe me, I tried. I put myself on the line here. But nothing is going to change here until things change in lawmakers' districts and the pressure has to come from outside of Washington because I've done all I can inside of Washington to get this done. And it clearly isn't happening for me.

I mean this is a president who's had a lot going on lately. He's got a very large agenda that has been sidelined to a great degree. This was at the top of his agenda, Wolf, I think you'd have to say after Newtown and now he's going to have to move on unless the American public actually decides to get engaged and try and change things.

BLITZER: Yes, polls show that there is support for greater gun control but delivering that obviously not necessarily going to happen.

BORGER: Right. And, there -- you know, there is one thing that could happen. It's not all bleak. One thing that people seem to agree on, Wolf, is trying to get the mental health component of this taken care of. Have some legislation that provides for more mental health awareness, counseling, reporting, so that when you have a paranoid schizophrenic, that person should not be getting a gun like Alexis. That somebody who's basically crazy should not be able to get a gun. There is some sort of renewed hope that maybe even Congress can agree on something that's that simple, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Gloria, thank you very much. See you later in "The Situation Room."

The deadly attack on a shopping mall in Kenya raising all sorts of concerns about what are called soft targets. I'll speak with the former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes, a CNN analyst, about the challenge of securing malls, movie theaters and other public places.

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