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Procedural Vote on Spending Bill; Obamacare at Center of Spending Debate; Five Days Until Possible Government Shutdown; Health Care Premiums Beat Expectations; Iran's President Acknowledges Holocaust in Interview; Senate Moves Ahead; Hillary Clinton Staying in the Mix

Aired September 25, 2013 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much. Right now the Senate is voting on the showdown that could lead to a government shutdown. This follows a 21 hour talkathon against Obamacare by Senator Ted Cruz. You just heard a little of it. We're going live to Capitol Hill.

Also right now, the secretary of state, John Kerry, he's getting ready to meet with top diplomats. Kerry discussing Syria with representatives of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Counsel, plus Germany.

Also right now, we're waiting for an FBI news conference on the Washington Navy Yard shooting. We should learn new details about the attack that killed 12 people. We're also about to get never before seen video that -- from that day over at the Navy Yard. We have live coverage of that coming up this hour.

I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from New York. We want to welcome our viewers in Washington on Capitol Hill. We've been watching an epic move by the Texas Republican senator, Ted Cruz. He started his anti-Obamacare marathon a little after 2:00 p.m. Eastern yesterday afternoon. But now, Cruz has turned over the microphone. The Senate is wrapping up their vote on moving the debate ahead and a move to club -- getting a move closer to making a final decision on the spending bill.

At times, Senator Cruz seemed to sway from his core message against Obamacare. Other times, he was reading bedtime stories, trying to make a star wars analogies also dealing with the government as the evil empire.

But here's how he wrapped up his very long talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: My greatest frustration in this body is during those nine months, we have spent virtually zero time even talking about jobs and the economy. We spent six week weeks talking about guns and taking away people's second amendment rights, but when it comes to jobs and the economy in this United States Senate, it doesn't even make the agenda. So, anyone in America right now who's struggling to find a job -- small businesses provide two-thirds of all new jobs. Small businesses are crying out that Obamacare is killing them. And unfortunately the United States Senate is not hearing their cries. For the millions of Americans that are facing the threat being forced into part time work, unfortunately the United States Senate is not hearing their cry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Then it was the majority leaders, Harry Reid's, turn and he took a quick shot at Senator Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: It's unfortunate that so much time is now spent wasting, not accomplishing anything. That's what this has been about is wasting time. The American people know, they've been called upon by the senator -- the junior senator from Texas, they've been called upon time and time again. The American people. The American people. Well, I'll tell you something, Mr. President, the American people know that every hour that he has spoken or speaks, pushes us another hour closer to a Republican government shutdown.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: Obamacare is just as bad as many of us said it would be and it's about to get a lot worse. This train is picking up speed and there's a bridge out ahead. It's sort of like one of those wily coyote cartoons, except this isn't funny.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: For almost a whole day, the Senate stage was all Ted Cruz's. He had a little help along the way with questions from some fellow senators. We're only five days away now from a government shutdown if a deal doesn't get done. The action stays in the Senate at least for now over the next few days.

We're covering all angles. Our Senior White House Correspondent Brianna Keilar is standing by as is our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. Let's start with our Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash. She's joining us on the phone. Dana, I understand you're right outside Senator Cruz's office. Take us through what's happening right now with this vote.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi there, Wolf, I'm just heading towards the camera to talk to you on camera because I just had a chance to talk to Senator Cruz outside of his office. And I can't talk to you on camera because I just had a chance to talk with Senator Cruz outside of his office. And I asked him kind of a human interest story, question which is how do you stand up for 21 hours and do this? And his answer was he certainly was tired but his answer was that he feels pretty good. And he stuck to his talking points and says that he feels good because he feels that he was able to stand up for the American people.

What is happening on the Senate floor right now is something that is likely not going to be good news for Ted Cruz. It is a first procedural vote and it is something that Ted Cruz was urging his fellow Republicans to vote no on, even though it's very counterintuitive because it would effectively be a vote on no defunding Obamacare which everybody supports. But basically, you're going to see a lot of Republicans vote against Ted Cruz's wishes because they are concerned that this whole strategy of time defunding Obamacare to funding the government is just a recipe for political disaster because Democrats run the Senate and they don't have the votes ultimately. And if the government does shut down, Republicans will get the blame.

BLITZER: So, this is basically a procedural vote which will what? Allow the real vote to come up within the next few days which would fund the government but do nothing as far as Obamacare is concerned. It wouldn't defund it, is that right?

BASH: That's right. This is simply a procedural vote that is going to continue -- get the -- get the debate going, continue this debate, which is -- which could last, Wolf, through Saturday. It is a vote to, again, officially start the debate on this bill. There are a lot of hurdles, as you know, procedurally, that the Senate has to go through if somebody puts those hurdles up. This is the first one, but it is a major one. And a symbolic one because this is the key vote that will show how much support Ted Cruz has from his fellow Republicans with this particular strategy.

BLITZER: Do they need a simple majority on this vote right now or do they need 60 votes?

BASH: They need 60 votes, but that is actually something they will get in spades. That's why this is so complicated and, frankly, why his Republican leaders and many of his Republican colleagues have been so against it, because it is so hard to explain to their constituents and the American people. This -- what Ted Cruz is doing is he is -- he and some of his compatriots are going to vote no so that's where they're going to stand.

But most of the Democrats, maybe all of the Democrats, and a healthy number of Republicans are going to vote yes on this because they want to keep the debate going on a bill that actually defunds Obamacare. Again, this is incredibly complicated and that speaks to a whole point of why Republican leaders are so against the strategy because it is so, frankly, convoluted when it comes to Senate process.

BLITZER: The are -- the rules of the Senate are pretty arcane, I must say. All right, Dana, thanks very much. Dana Bash watching what's happening. And we'll have -- of course have the roll call as soon as it's done. As I said earlier, Senator Cruz was not alone. He did get a little help along the way from other senators, including Mike Lee, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio. They're -- those were more or less expected but he also got an assist from the Kansas Republican senator, Pat Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: Isn't it worth the fight? Isn't it worth an effort -- and you're making that effort and I appreciate that so much. Isn't it worth the fight knowing that this is the first, second and third steps "Skip to the Lou, My Darling," OK, going right into socialized medicine?

CRUZ: I guarantee you, Mr. President, it is noticed that Senator Roberts is standing with us. It is noticed that Senator Sessions is standing with us. It is noticed that Senator Enzi is standing with us. It is one thing for the young Turks. It is one thing for those who have been dubbed the whacko birds to be willing to stand and fight, but when you see senior elder statesman of the Senate standing side by side, I would suggest, Mr. President, we are starting to see what I hope will happen this week which is seeing Republicans unify.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger. He knew he wasn't going to succeed when all the dust settled but he did it anyway, Senator Cruz, Gloria. So, what's his real agenda here?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, he's playing an outside game, Wolf. He's clearly not playing an inside game because he knows he's going to lose, as you point out. This, for him, is about talking to the base of his party. And if you look at the polls, you see that about two-thirds of Tea Party folks believe that he's fighting the correct fight, even if he's going to lose, even if it means shutting down the government. They believe it's worth it to take on Obamacare. So, he's talking at the base of his party. He's raising an awful lot of money on this and he's also positioning himself, quite honestly, for a run in 2016. So, he knows who he's talking to. He knows what they want to hear. The problem that lots of Republicans have is that he's making life really difficult for them particularly if you're -- if you're in the Senate.

He also has a lot of detractors on the House side, Wolf, who believe that his people are running ads in their districts against them and they have to, therefore, move further and further and further to the right. Even though they don't like Obamacare, he believes they're pushing them off a cliff to the extent that they're not ever going to be able to win a presidential campaign, because they'll never be able to attract independent voters. So, he's really dividing the party, but right now, this is about his base.

BLITZER: It's interesting he's mentioning those senators who are standing with him. For example, Mike Enzi of Wyoming.

BORGER: Right, right.

BLITZER: He's facing challenge over there in Wyoming from the former vice president, Dick Cheney's daughter, --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- who's running for that Republican nomination. So, it's -- he's sending political messages out there to some conservative activists.

BORGER: Right, he is. Look, Obamacare is a lightning rod. Conservatives don't like Obamacare. Republicans don't like Obamacare. Lots of Democrats, by the way, want to fix Obama care because it's clearly not a perfect bill, but it has become the sort of organizing principle at this point, for the Republican Party. The problem with what Ted Cruz is doing is that, as Dana pointed out earlier in a very convoluted way, he's asking Republican senators to vote against the bill that would actually kill Obamacare. Because the Senate procedures are so difficult.

So, he's putting everybody in a tough position. He's standing up clearly for what he believes. I'm not saying he doesn't believe this but there are lots of Republicans who believe that shutting down the government, as a result of this fight, is going to hurt their party and not help their party.

BLITZER: Yes, we just saw that -- remember last week, that article by -- you know, that Karl Rove article --

BORGER: Karl Rove, yes.

BLITZER: -- in the "The Wall Street Journal," making that specific point. A warning to Republicans out there, be really careful about shutting down the federal government because the political ramifications for Republicans would be enormous. All right, Gloria, thanks very much. We're watching the roll call. We'll see what happens on the Senate floor right now. We'll have live coverage of that.

Also, health insurance premiums under Obama care, they're going to cost less than expected, about 16 percent less. This according to a long-awaited report that came out today. It shows the national average cost for a midrange plan will be about $328 a month. Christine Romans will break down the numbers for us later this hour. You'll want to see this.

But first, the surprising remark from the president of Iran. He now acknowledges the holocaust did in fact occur. You're going to hear what President Hassan Rouhani told our Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive one-on-one interview.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: At the United Nations today, the secretary of state, John Kerry, he's been meeting with other diplomats from the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, plus Germany. It's the so-called P5 plus one. They're trying to agree on a resolution to get rid of Syria's chemical weapons. It would back up the deal reached between Kerry and Russia's foreign minister.

Tomorrow, Kerry and his Iranian counterpart will meet with the Security Council members. They'll start discussing talks on Iran's nuclear program. Kerry instructed to do so by the president of the United States.

Iran's new president acknowledging the horrors of the Holocaust now and he calls the crimes committed by the Nazis "reprehensible." President Hassan Rouhani's position is in stark contrast to the former president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. In a one-on-one interview with our Christiane Amanpour, President Rouhani was asked about his views of the Nazi atrocities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One of the things your predecessor used to do from this very platform was deny the Holocaust and pretend that it was a myth. I want to know you, your position on the Holocaust. Do you accept what it was? And what was it?

PRES. HASSAN ROUHANI, IRAN (through translator): I've said before that I am not a historian and that when it comes to speaking of the dimensions of the Holocaust, it is the historians that should reflect on it. But in general I can tell you that any crime that happens in history against humanity, including the crime the Nazi's committed towards the Jews, as well as non-Jews, is reprehensible and condemnable. Whatever criminality that committed against the Jews, we condemn. The taking of human life is contemptible. It makes no difference whether that life is a Jewish life, Christian or Muslim. For us, it is the same. The taking of human life is something all religion rejects, but this does not mean that on the other hand you can say Nazis committed crimes against the group, now therefore they must usurp the land of another group and occupy it. This, too, is an act that should be condemned. There should be an even-handed discussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Iranian president has called for diplomacy to resolve the standoff over Iran's nuclear program, but world leaders are trying to figure out whether he's serious, whether he has the authority to negotiate. He says he does.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROUHANI: I think that the president of Iran has the authority, whenever the national interest of the country is involved, and when it's necessary and expedient and required to speak and talk with others in order to promote the rights of its nations. For circumstances to be laid properly, the supreme leader of Iran has said that should negotiations be necessary for the national interest of the country, he is, in fact, not opposed to us (ph). He has specifically mentioned it in a recent talk that he is not optimistic regarding the issue of talks with the United States, but when it comes to specific issues, government officials may speak with their American counterparts.

Now, if an opportunity was created today, had risen today, and the prep work for that had been done, most probably the talks would have taken place primarily focused on the nuclear issue or the developments on the Middle East. Therefore, the supreme leader, I can tell you, has given permission from my government to freely negotiate on these issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Finally, about the handshake that didn't happen. President Rouhani explained why he and President Obama didn't meet yesterday at the U.N.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROUHANI: There were some talks about it, in fact, to perhaps arrange for a meeting between President Obama and myself. So that given the opportunity, we can talk with each other. And preparation for the work was done a bit as well. The United States declared its interest in having such a meeting and in principle could have, under certain circumstances, allowed it to happen. But I believe we didn't have sufficient time to really coordinate the meeting.

But speaking of the ice breaking that you mentioned, it's already beginning to break because the environment is changing and that has come about as a result of the will of the people of Iran to create a new era of relations between the people of Iran and the rest of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Iranian president also delivered a message to Americans in English. He said this. I'll read it to you. He said, "I bring peace and friendship from Iranian to Americans." Our Piers Morgan just sat down with former President Bill Clinton at the Clinton Global Initiative here in New York, and he asked him to weigh in on what the Iranian president had to say in the interview with Christiane Amanpour. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERS MORGAN, HOST, CNN'S "PIERS MORGAN LIVE": President Obama has to, at the moment, trust three people who, as they would say in "Downton Abbey," wouldn't necessarily trust with the family silver. President Assad, Vladimir Putin and President Rouhani. Let's start with Iran, because that's always a big talking point at CGI. Christiane Amanpour, for CNN yesterday, interviewed President Rouhani and he, compared to the interview that I did with Mohamed Ahmadinejad last year, struck a much more consolatory tone, particularly in the fact that he basically admitted there had been a Holocaust, which was certainly nothing that Ahmadinejad would never admit to. What did you make of that? How important is that kind of concession? And do you see a real shift there in the relationship with America? How much do you trust him?

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I think it's interesting commentary on the world in which we're living that admitting that the Holocaust occurred qualifies as being a moderate.

MORGAN: Right.

CLINTON: I mean, in other words, if you get into the fact based world, there's something to it. At least we can have something to talk about.

I was hoping, and I think the president was, that the opening of the U.N. would give them a chance to, you know, maybe even do more.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: By the way, be sure to watch Piers' entire interview with President Clinton. It will air, "Piers Morgan Live," later tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. We'll have more excerpts, by the way, coming up in "The Situation Room" later today as well, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Meantime, Hillary Clinton also breaking from her norm. We're used to hearing the former secretary of state weighing in on international issues, Now she's bringing it home. Her strong warning about the consequences of a government shutdown. You're going to hear what she's saying. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Want to bring back our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. She's been watching this vote on the Senate floor, the future of a government funding, the future of funding for Obamacare.

What's going on here, Dana, because I take it the vote was 100-0. What happened?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One hundred to nothing, but that unanimity should not give you the impression that everybody agrees on anything, even within the Republican Party.

What Ted Cruz and the people who agree with him on this procedural strategy decided to do was vote yes on this first procedural vote in order - and this technically gets debate started on the bill -- and they still insist that he will vote no on a second procedural vote.

I know this is confusing, but welcome to the Senate. A second procedural vote, which will likely happen Friday or Saturday. They say that is the place where he is going to take his stand and vote no because he wants to try to make sure, procedurally, that Democrats don't strip out defunding Obamacare when they pass a bill to fund the government. So that's why there was unanimity on this. But again, it does not mean anything with regard to what ultimately the positions of senators are, even and especially within the Republican Party.

BLITZER: Usually they have unanimity in the Senate when they're naming some sort of post office or something like that.

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: But it's rare that they get a 100-0 vote on other issues, especially sensitive issues, like this.

BASH: Exactly.

BLITZER: All right, but that's part of the procedure of the Senate. We'll stand by for that next vote. We'll see what happens Monday night, midnight, that's when the funding runs out for the government unless the Senate and House of Representatives pass the required appropriations legislation.

Some strong words, meanwhile, from the former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton. She spoke out with our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta yesterday here in New York at the Clinton Global Initiative about the battle over Obama care, calling on those fighting to defund it to do the right thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: This president is not going to agree to defund health care. We're on the path to beginning the implementation. If they want to shut the government down, that's on their head and their reasonability. And if they go even further, which is deeply distressing, and for the first time lead our country into default on our obligations, that is not just partisan politics, that is going at the heart of our credibility around the world. Not just our economic leadership, but our political and strategic leadership. So I hope that our friends on the other side of the aisle - and it's a minority, but a noisy minority -- understands this is not right to do and this is bad politics for them to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in Jessica Yellin. She's joining us right now.

Jessica, she, the former secretary, she's delving now into domestic issues like Obamacare, really the first time since leaving office. We used to just hear from her as secretary of state on international issues. So what, if anything, can we read in terms of her political aspirations by her new move into these domestic issues?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, she's leaning in, but not all the way in. So I talked to a lot of sources close to the former secretary of state and they're adamant that she really has not decided that she will run, but in the next breath most of them say they think she probably will decide to run unless. And the unless is usually unless Chelsea has a baby and Clinton falls in love with being a grandma full time, or unless some kind of health problem unfortunately befalls one member of the family. Whether it's her or her husband or someone else. So the tea leaves are there, it's just not final. And you see she's staying in the mix.

BLITZER: So what do you make of the fact that she chose this issue, health care, for example, to weigh in so assertively, shall we say, yesterday in that conversation with Dr. Sanjay Gupta?

YELLIN: The assertiveness in the language was surprising, but she's trying to walk a line. You know, her popularity, as you know, is sky high and the longer she stays away from truly polarizing issues, the longer she keeps those poll numbers in the stratosphere. So, in truth, opposing a government shutdown or opposing a default isn't really controversial. As you point out, taking sides on Obamacare is. But we all know where she stands on that because of her history supporting health care reform. So it's not truly going out on a limb for her.

Now, she has pointedly, as chief diplomat, stayed away from domestic politics. But if you look at the range of issues she's now addressing since she's having -- coming out this week, on the one hand it's health care reform, government shutdown, potentially controversial, but then she's also taking on women and girls and saving Africa's elephants. So a mix of safe, while dipping her toe into domestic politics again, Wolf.

BLITZER: Dipping, indeed. All right, she's moving, but not - she is not there yet completely.

YELLIN: Right.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens. All right, Jessica, thanks very much.