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Senate Meets Now; Obama Talks Veto; Senate Votes on Bill; Military IOUs; Train Collision

Aired September 30, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Wolf. Thank you so much.

Great to be with you on this Monday. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You thinking what I'm thinking? Only Congress could make a crisis look cliche. Folk, you know this. I know this. We have been here before. Congress is dysfunctional. Hopes are low and pressure is very high. Lawmakers are cramming and they're cramming on something that could have been done months and months ago. Here we are, the final hours before this ominous deadline that Wolf was talking about here. Look at the clock with me. In 10 hours, less than 10 now, if there is no agreement, the government will shut down for the first time in 17 years.

So here's what's happening right now. The U.S. Senate, they're convening. They are now on the receiving end of this House bill. This latest version. This version from the House that keeps government money flowing, but would delay Obamacare for a year and would repeal a tax on medical devices.

So, the Senate, at this hour, is just beginning to talk about this bill. They will be voting on this bill, but likely tabling a lot of those amendments. Republican House members, they took notice this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: The House has done its work. We passed a bill on Saturday night, sent it to the United States Senate, that would delay Obamacare for one year and would eliminate permanently the medical device tax that is costing us tens of thousands of jobs that are being shipped overseas. The Senate decided not to work yesterday. Well, my goodness, if there's such an emergency, where are they?

REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: While we were here until nearly 1:00 a.m. Sunday morning, the Senate was gone. The president, according to "The New York Times," played golf over the weekend. I guess this Senate and the president have other priorities. But their inaction of talking to us will cause a shutdown. Where, oh, where, has the Senate gone? Where, oh, where can they be? With time so short and issues so long, where, oh, where, has the Senate gone?

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: If a shutdown happens, the political parties, of course, will be doing this to each other, pointing the finger, but who do the American people blame? I want to show you this poll. This is a new CNN/ORC poll, check it out for yourself, that says both sides of the aisle will take a hit with people thinking that the majority of Republicans and Democrats are acting like spoiled children.

And investors, I am sure, also thinking of some not so nice names for Congress. Markets, they are falling amid the uncertainty. I want to go straight to the action, straight to Capitol Hill, to our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash.

And we are, Dana, you tell me, what, minutes from a possible vote in the Senate? And I imagine they will be voting on - voting down, I guess, the House version with warp speed.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's what we're told is going to happen from aides to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, that they are - they are now in. They're doing their ceremonial business. And then they are going to get down to the business of the day, which is to table or to just simply reject, in layman's terms, the bid that the House sent over late Saturday night, really early Sunday morning, to pass a spending bill, keeping the government running, but it includes non-starters as far as Senate Democrats who run this body are concerned. And that, of course, as you said, is delaying Obamacare for a year and repealing a medical device tax. So probably -- oh, they're already voting.

BALDWIN: Already?

BASH: There you go, they're already voting. I just saw out of my - out of my peripheral vision that they are voting. So we are definitely seeing this in warp speed.

BALDWIN: OK. So on the warp speed note, I want you to tell me about, as we watch this here, tell me about your conversation. I was watching CNN earlier. You were talking to Congressman Charlie Dent, Republican, Pennsylvania, who, from what I, you know, saw from that conversation, he, you know, is saying, listen, enough is enough. Let's just vote on this clean, continuing resolution. This version that does not include, you know, bits about Obamacare, married as part of it, and continue on and fight that fight down the road. Is that correct?

BASH: That is correct, and he is actually, as we speak, entering a House Republican meeting, which is starting right now, to talk about their next move. And he is going to stand up and say, enough already. Here's the reason why he told me. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHARLIE DENT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: I voted to repeal, delay, defund Obamacare. I have all sorts of problems with the health care law. But I also realize it's not going to change between now and the end of the day today. So it's imperative for us right now to get on with the business of governing.

We have - you know, I'd say there are over 180, probably 190 members of the House Republican Conference who have a very serious sense of governance and who, you know, are the governing wing of the party. You know, we have a few dozen who don't have that same sense of governance and so we're just going to have to get on with the business, pass a bipartisan bill, and keep the government running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Here's the but. And it's a but that could change, but from what I'm hearing, I don't think it will. That doesn't look like it's going to happen in the short term, meaning in the next few hours. I'm told that what the speaker and fellow Republican leaders are going to tell their colleagues as we speak in the meeting that's beginning is they're going to try one more time to pass a bill funding the government with yet another attempt to chip away at Obamacare. In this case, my understanding is the leading option is to delay the individual mandate for a year. That would likely have the votes to pass the house. Go back to the Senate. They'll probably do what they're doing right now on the Senate floor, reject it. Then the question come back again, whether or not Republicans are willing to pass a bill funding the government with no strings attached.

Now, you heard Charlie Dent making the point, again, he is a Republican -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: That there is bipartisan support to do that. There is bipartisan support to do that. Democrats are meeting soon as well. My guess is that they will say, please put this on the floor. A clean bill. We will vote for it and it will be over.

The problem is, that same problem that we've seen over the past week and frankly months and years since John Boehner has been in the speakership, and that is, to do that would mean that he would have to face -- and his - and his rank and file would have to face the wrath of conservatives who are extremely powerful and their very conservative districts saying, you gave up too fast, even though the sand is almost at the end of that hourglass.

BALDWIN: So the sand ultimately ends. This is happening 12:00 midnight tonight. So we can watch the volleying back and forth, but that is the hard and fast deadline.

Dana, we're going to come back to you. We're going to keep these live pictures up here as the U.S. Senate is voting here on this government funding bill.

So stay with me here. And again, if there is no agreement when 12:01 a.m. Eastern Time strikes, Social Security checks, the mail, national security, that will keep going, but your national parks, museums, Yosemite, the Smithsonian, they will close.

Also, visas, passports, gun permits, that will all be on hold. Small business loans, delayed. And even more crucial, 783,000 federal workers face furloughs. And active duty military will not get their next paycheck on time, getting IOUs instead. And there is no question here that many family budgets will be in crisis, along with the government's if - if the shutdown, in fact, happens. And one of the president's cabinet members says he plans to share the pain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will, however, be reducing my salary by whatever amount the -- is greatest for any employee at the Justice Department. As I've made clear to the people in this department, we are all in this together. And whatever pain they suffer, I will share with them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As for the president, Barack Obama, he just spoke on the possibility of a shutdown. So let me take you straight to the White House, as we continue to watch this vote there on the Senate floor.

Jim Acosta, our senior correspondent Jim Acosta there, what did the president say about this? I mean, thus far, he has been crystal clear on no negotiating when it comes to Obamacare.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Brooke. That has not changed. And don't expect it to change. The president was standing his ground with that meeting that happened with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that wrapped up in the last couple hours, basically saying that it's now up to Congress, it's now up to the House of Representatives to pass this spending bill to keep the government open.

And I just want to get you up to speed with what was just said in the briefing room. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney holding a briefing right now, Brooke, and he was asked about some of the various provisions that are flying around out there. You heard Dana talking about the repeal of the medical device tax. Jay Carney, at one point during the briefing, called that blatant extortion, indicating, not really hinting there, that the White House will not accept any kind of continuing resolution that includes anything that affects Obamacare. So drawing that line in the sand there. And the president said as much when he was meeting with the Israeli prime minister earlier this afternoon. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The bottom line is that the Senate has passed a bill that keeps the government open, does not have a lot of extraneous issues to it, that allows us then to negotiate a longer-term budget and address a range of other issues. But it insures that we're not shutting down the government and we're not shutting down the economy at a time when a lot of families out there are just getting some traction and digging themselves out of the hole that we've had as a consequence of the financial crisis.

I've said before, Congress has two responsibilities, pass a budget, pay the bills. And I am not only open to, but eager to have negotiations around a long-term budget that makes sure that we're invested in middle-class families, helping the economy grow, giving people who are working hard a leg up, and greater security and stability, and deals with some of our long-term challenges in terms of debt and deficits. But the only way to do that is for everybody to sit down in good faith without threatening to harm women and veterans and children with a government shutdown. And certainly we can't have any kind of meaningful negotiations under the cloud of potential default, the first in U.S. history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So there you hear the president there, not only talking about the prospect of a government shutdown, but also what's coming up in just a couple of weeks, Brooke, when the nation hits the debt ceiling. The president also saying he's not going to negotiate when it comes to his health care law as any kind of leverage for raising the debt ceiling.

Now, one other thing that we want to point out, in just the last few minutes, Brooke, and that is, during the press briefing, before I walked out here to talk to you, Jay Carney was asked repeatedly about one other proposal that is floating around up on Capitol Hill, and that is for a one-week, very short-term continuing resolution. Something that would keep the government running for about a week or so. And I asked Jay Carney about this. Another reporter followed up because he didn't answer me the first time. He did not want to go there. He did not want to answer that question as to whether or not the White House would accept a very short-term one-week continuing resolution.

Now, he said that he wasn't going to comment on any of the options up there on Capitol Hill, but he also called, you know, repealing the medical device tax a blatant distortion. But about this short-term CR, he said, well, I don't want to comment on the options floating around up on Capitol Hill, there are so many of them. So that might be a tell, might not be a tell, but it could be, maybe, a glimmer of hope that this White House might be amenable to that kind of proposal. We'll just have to wait and see.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Maybe, maybe, maybe, for one week.

ACOSTA: Maybe, maybe, maybe. That's right.

BALDWIN: Jim Acosta at the White House. Jim, thank you.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BALDWIN: I want to talk about now just the potential impact of this increasingly likely, as we watch the clock and we watch the Senate voting here, the possibility of this government shutdown. Greg McBride joins me. He is a senior financial analyst at bankrate.com.

So, Greg, here we go. You know, I guess I want to pull out as we're watching the tick tock and the vote right here, big picture. I mean this shutdown, it looks - it looks inevitable. And I know that you have said if the government does shut down, it should be nothing more than a bump in the road. You say don't panic. Why?

GREG MCBRIDE, SENIOR FINANCIAL ANALYST, BANKRATE.COM: Well, you know, a couple things, Brooke. I mean, first of all, these things -- I'm expecting it to be short-lived. It's a clear headwind to the economy. Look, if you're one of those three quarters of a million federal workers that's about to be furloughed, you don't know how long that's going to last. I'm going to guess a lot of those people were not out at the mall going hog wild this weekend, right? I mean they just -- there's so much uncertainty. So that uncertainty causes people to pull back a little bit. That's where the headwind of the already slow- growing economy comes into play.

But as long as it's short-term in nature, it doesn't disrupt people's finances too much, doesn't disrupt the economy too much, and the nervousness that you're seeing in financial markets now is something that will be quickly forgotten and then they'll be on to the next thing, which is the debt ceiling, which is far more significant.

BALDWIN: That - that - that's the but, right? I mean it's one thing maybe to have a finite government shutdown, quite another once we hit that October 17th deadline when the government needs to increase the borrowing limit to pay its bills. And if Congress can't get their act together on that, that is much more disastrous. Tell the American people why.

MCBRIDE: It certainly is. Yes, I mean, you know, but really what, you know, revolves around the fact is that government debt is perceived to be risk free because the government can always print more money to pay the bills. So if you have anything more than what's known as a technical default, in other words let's say that midnight deadline for the debt ceiling comes and goes and they haven't increased it, you know, until people actually are not getting paid that are supposed to be getting paid, it's just what's known as a technical default. But when you get to the point when, you know, the government's not paying our creditors, that's when financial markets will absolutely go haywire. That won't be a good picture.

Again, worst case scenario, and I don't expect it to play out that way because, look, what you're seeing in this gamesmanship in Congress now, it's just game theory. I mean you don't get your way if you give in early. You've got to play it out to the end. And, you know, just like we've seen time and time again, I'm sure we'll get to the 11th hour or so and then they'll figure it out.

BALDWIN: Knocking on my glass desk as I talk to you, Greg McBride. Greg, thank you.

And speaking of this back and forth, you're watching, we're waiting, they've been voting and this is the floor of the U.S. Senate. We're watching the voting happening. Any minute now, we will have an answer as to whether or not, which is likely, that the U.S. Senate will be voting down this government funding bill, the part that they have been handed from the House, which wanted to delay Obamacare for one year. So we're waiting for those vote tallies here momentarily. Also this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's going to be bills that are going to be due. And those places like -- you can't just tell the electric department, hey, you know, I got an IOU.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I ran my house the way the government is running the country, I would be bankrupt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've made your point. Let's get on with the business of running the country and pass the budget, pass the debt limit, and let us keep improving the economy. Don't play games anymore, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So if this government shutdown isn't real yet, you're about to hear from military families who won't get paid right away.

Plus, a big moment at the White House. Just days after President Obama talked to Iran's president on the telephone, here he is, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warning the United States, don't be naive. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A big chunk of the U.S. government set to effectively shut down at midnight tonight if Congress fails to pass a budget. And military families, many of whom live paycheck to paycheck, they're wondering if a shutdown could mean no paycheck at all. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ran my house the way the government is running the country, I would be bankrupt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've made your point. Let's get on with the business of running the country and pass the budget, pass the debt limits, and let us keep improving the economy. Don't play games anymore, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All, quote, "essential people," like members of Congress, will keep getting paid, but military families, on the other hand, are being told they'll be just getting IOUs, told they will get paid eventually. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vivian Greentree's husband is overseas while she works and looks after two young children.

VIVIAN GREENTREE, MILITARY SPOUSE: We spent a large amount of time for this morning speaking about what we would do if he didn't get paid and how we would react to that with our own finances. And I know that that's probably a conversation that has been had through e-mail, texting, and FaceTime, Skype, for military families all over the country.

STARR: Many live paycheck to paycheck. At Ft. Campbell, Kentucky, there is growing worry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's going to be bills that are going to be due. And those places like -- you can't just tell the electric department, hey, you know, I got an IOU.

STARR: Washington knows troops are unhappy, so the Republican- controlled House passed a measure to keep paying the troops in the shutdown. The Senate has yet to act.

But for America's veterans, the outlook is more dire because of the other crisis, raising the debt ceiling before the government runs out of money.

TOM TARANTINO, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN VETERANS OF AMERICA: But if it goes longer than a few weeks, if Congress can't get their act together, this could hurt millions of veterans who count on these benefits for part of their care and services.

STARR: More than 3 million veterans receive disability payments. If there's no money, payments could stop. New claims won't be processed and current payments still might arrive late.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, let me bring you in. We know that the defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, he just sent an all-staff message to defense personnel. What did he say?

STARR: Military and civilians, Secretary Hagel, not happy about this at all, of course, because they've already been through the budget furloughs this summer, telling especially the civilian workers that got furloughed that they are all essential to the department, that he values their service, but that they are -- many of them will be furloughed, that the law only will allow them to keep people on duty who are supporting military operations or security and safety of military installations and essential services. So a lot of people are facing the possibility of furloughs if they're civilian workers. And troops on the front line, walking patrols at midnight in Afghanistan, may have their pay delayed unless Congress acts.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, thank you.

Speaking of Congress, the Senate is acting. It's voting right now. Stripping - stripping those Republican amendments that were added in the latest iteration of this bill that came from the House. Now it's here at the Senate. They're probably going to vote, stripping that down, tabling those amendments, and then, whoosh, just like a tennis match, we watch the volley back over to the House. We're waiting for that final tally from the U.S. Senate. As soon as we see it, we'll bring it to you here on CNN as we're talking about the deadline. Midnight tonight, will the government shut down?

Also developing here, as relationships between Iran and the U.S. get warmer, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sitting there with President Obama, warning him, don't be naive. But Americans have a different take.

Plus, dozens are hurt after commuter trains collide in Chicago this morning. Investigators say there is a mystery unfolding over a runaway train. We're live at the scene, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, breaking news. Let me take you back to Capitol Hill. The shutdown -- the countdown to the shutdown here as we now have a final vote tally. Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash joining me now with what -- you called it. We anticipated this.

BASH: That's right. And it was a party line vote, 54-46. The Senate voted to reject what the House sent them in the middle of the night Saturday night, early morning Sunday morning, which, of course, was a bill to fund the government but with a delay of Obamacare for a year and a repeal of a medical device tax that would have helped - that does help pay for Obamacare.

What does that mean? The ball is back in the House's court. House Republicans are meeting, Brooke, as we speak to map out their next move. I am told that the plan was for them to try one more time. Certainly, lots of conservatives in their caucus want them to keep fighting despite it being pretty obvious that they're up against all odds. And the leading option for that next fight would be to have a spending bill that delays the individual mandate in Obamacare for a year.

But as you and I talked about earlier in the hour, there are House Republicans who were talking only privately about this before but now are coming out publicly as the clock ticks toward midnight saying enough already, let's wave the white flag. We made our point, not once, not twice. It's not going to happen. The math simply isn't there and let's move on.

But I'm told unless something dramatic happens in this meeting that's going on as we speak, which as we've seen from House Republicans things can change on a dime -

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: The plan is not to do that, to have one more crack at this and so that will -- if they do that, it will put us right up until the deadline of midnight.

And one other thing I wanted to tell you. You and Jim Acosta were talking about Jay Carney being kind of non-committal on the idea of a one week. BALDWIN: The one week. Right.

BASH: I will tell you that the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, told our Ted Barrett, basically nonstarter. He asked about that and he said, no. So he's got a pretty important opinion here and he is saying, uh-uh, not going to do that.

BALDWIN: OK. And I know, as you're reporting on this House Republican meeting that's happening right now, we also know that we should be hearing, according to you and your crew there on The Hill, that we should be hearing from House Democrats and Senate Democrats here within the next couple of minutes as well.

BASH: Right. Exactly.

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, we will be back in touch with you very quickly.

But back to this other story we're watching here out of Chicago for you, this fast-moving story there. Dozens of people are hurt today after this commuter train collided with another. And investigators have no idea why.

Let me go straight to the scene to Ted Rowlands who's there for us.

And, Ted, I know we -- one train, full of passengers. The other, this mystery runaway train, is that correct?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, total mystery. It was empty, the other train. This was a four-car train. You can see it behind me here. The one that is crumpled up was the empty train. And somehow it got on the tracks this morning, 8:00, during the commute, and rammed into a full train here sending 33 people to the hospitals. At first, people thought here, the investigators, that it was intentionally done. That somebody had hijacked this train, the four-car train, at the yard and sent it down the tracks intentionally. But over the past few hours, they've pored over the surveillance video at the yard and on the track and they say they don't see anybody. They have no idea at this point how this train got loose and careened into a full train. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN STEELE, CTA SPOKESMAN: This is an extremely rare occurrence. I don't know the last time, if ever, that this has happened on the CTA system. This is a system that has a very strong safety track record, and this is an incident that really is an aberration, and it brings with it a lot of questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROWLANDS: Here's the bottom line, Brooke, no foul play suspected at this point. The NTSB has sent someone out here to join this investigation because even though there's no foul play, there was obviously a major problem here this morning. Those 33 injured, luckily, none of them were seriously injured, but it could have gone the other way very easily. And they are scratching their heads at this hour, still, trying to figure out exactly what happened here.

BALDWIN: Ted, thank you. Ted Rowlands for us in Chicago.

Back to Washington. Senate Democrats, as we mentioned with Dana Bash there, we are awaiting this news conference. And after their vote to send this bill here to fund the government, now that we know it is headed back to the House, we'll take you to Washington.

Plus, her business has survived other government shutdowns in the past, but this one, she says, is different. She says this could kill her business. The she here, Betsy Burton (ph). She will join me live to tell me why she says entrepreneurs are the forgotten majority. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)