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Some Argue Shutdown Fears Overblown; Reality of Government Shutdown Hits Home; Fiction Writer Tom Clancy Dies; Glitches Bug Insurance Marketplace; Town Mourns Family Killed in Rockslide

Aired October 02, 2013 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KEVIN MORROW, FREELANCE HISTORICAL RESEARCHER: So we -- at least the last time there were a few people going to bat for us on the Republican side but not this time.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well I think there are some Republicans that are -- who are not taking their paychecks until this thing is over. So there are some.

MORROW: There is.

COSTELLO: I just don't think you're -- you're hearing from them.

A budget analyst from the CATO Institute told me yesterday federal employees actually have it pretty good. I'd like you to listen to what he said and then respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAD DEHAVEN, BUDGET ANALYST, CATO INSTITUTE: There's also millions of workers out there today who have taken pay cuts in the last two years through a recession whose income goes to those people who have actually had it pretty darn good, the federal employees in Washington over the past few years while the rest of the country suffered having to pay their bills.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Your thoughts?

MORROW: Well, I would say that's pretty inaccurate in the sense that it sounds like the individual is portraying federal workers as actually having things better than the rest of everybody else. But that may be only because they actually have jobs that they can depend on except in times like this. If you're a senior --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, you know the rub on federal workers they are paid more than regular Americans and I'm just saying -- telling you what people say about federal workers. You know they are -- we often hear like oh they're lazy, they don't do their jobs and this guy saying, "Hey, they have great jobs. They should be grateful and because they work for the government they should expect these kinds of things to happen. MORROW: Well as a freelancer I can expect these kinds of things to happen because I'm used to short periods -- short periods of unemployment. But people who have regular jobs shouldn't have to expect this. That's outrageous, honestly. I just think that's really outrageous for him to say that. But somebody who himself has a very well-paying job who is probably of much, much better paid than I was when I was working for the federal government.

COSTELLO: Yes and I also heard like a lot of lawmakers are very wealthy individuals. And I've heard from federal workers that that kind of bugs them it's like, you know, you are still continuing to accept a paycheck and here I am waiting to see when my next paycheck is coming?

MORROW: Or if I'm going to get paid, yes. That's -- I think you're going to have -- I think a lot of federal employees who hear that will be pretty upset so.

COSTELLO: I think you're right. Kevin Morrow thanks so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

MORROW: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Right now on Capitol Hill the House is back in session, trying to create a sort of budget a la carte. Republicans now crafting a series of bills that would fund everything noncontroversial: national parks, yes; Veterans Affairs, yes; Obamacare, no. It's an idea sparked by Tea Party Republican Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I think we ought to start passing continuing resolutions narrowly focused on each of the things the President listed. So he said border patrol agents won't be paid. Fine, let's pass a continuing resolution that funds border patrol agents. He said that he plans to close every national park. Fine, let's fund the continuing resolution funding the interior, keeping the parks open. Let's one at a time demonstrate the same bipartisan cooperation we saw today with the military and address all of these people that he's holding out are going to suffer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Actually the House tried this yesterday and it all went down in flames but they're trying it again today. Brianna Keilar is at the White House and John Avlon our CNN political analyst and also he works at "The Daily Beast", he's in Washington to talk Tea Party and more.

But I'd like to start with you Brianna. First off, even if the House passes these a la carte bills the President would likely veto them, right?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And maybe not just likely Carol. The White House has issued a veto threat. And we don't even expect the Senate would take this up. So it would require the Senate taking it up and then going to the President's the desk. We never expect it to get that far.

But this is kind of the fourth loop that we've seen of this. The House proposes something. The White House puts out a veto or the administration I should say puts out a veto threat. And the Senate sort of dismantled whatever the House sent them. And it goes back around in a circle. This is the fourth circle of this.

COSTELLO: So could you consider this a step forward in any I way?

KEILAR: No. I think actually this is just sort of the same kind of cycle that we have been seeing. I know I wouldn't consider it that.

COSTELLO: All right Brianna. Stick around. Because I want to bring John Avlon into the discussion and talk about the Tea Party and the power of the Tea Party right now. Because a lot of people say the Tea Party is controlling Republicans in the House and are responsible for this government shutdown. Although there are signs that at least some Republicans are now fighting back.

So, John Avlon, I think it's hard to believe that just a small number of Tea Party Republicans could be controlling what the government does. And John I meant that question to you.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it may seem stunning. It may seem like a fundamental derivation in our democracy but it's what's happening right now. This is the way there's a polarization, this is the problem with extremes. They are ultimately their own side's worst enemy. And a lot of responsible Republicans in the Senate and the House are starting to realize that. They may have made a deal with the devil in the past in encouraging some folks who fundamentally are interested in grandstanding more than governing.

I've got to say when Ted Cruz talks about the importance of bipartisan cooperation that's laugh out loud funny. But the serious under tone to all of this is that the two sides aren't even talking right now. The government shutdown, we're not talking about two days here Carol we're talking about two weeks. And ultimately this is about a crisis in our democracy. This isn't even about funding Obamacare. This is about something much more fundamental and more serious.

COSTELLO: So Brianna, if this is a crisis in our democracy the House Speaker John Boehner he's a really smart guy. Why doesn't he override these Tea Party members and get something through the House that the Senate might consider?

KEILAR: Well it's not just Carol about these -- these Tea Party members which could be as few as a few dozen folks. It's also that there is also I think a large contingent of Republicans who even if they were to vote their conscience would vote for just a clean bill to fund the government.

But they are also concerned about the election which for them remember it's here in about a year that they could -- not -- they're not worried about being beaten by Democrats they're worried about being primaried to the right by some Republicans. And so I think that they're sort of afraid in a way of -- of really more what the opinion is of these sort of Tea Party contingent members and that also may reflect what some of the voters in their district may think.

Now keep in mind Carol and I know that you've been pointing it out. There are some Republicans who say let's just pass a clean funding bill. But I can almost guarantee you that either they do not have a really strong contingent of Tea Party voters in their district or they have a contingent of voters who are maybe contracting with the government or their military or they have other concerns that really sort of push towards hey get this shutdown over with.

COSTELLO: Ok so it seems as if the Tea Party Movement remains strong and I know John Avlon you've written many books about the conservative movement and you keep saying that their power is somewhat diminished. But -- but it doesn't seem that way.

AVLON: Well we've got a real disconnect. In terms of popular support the Tea Party actually is waning, it's increasingly seen as a problem in Washington -- the source of dysfunction rather than a solution to it. But inside Congress, inside the party itself, because the dynamic Brianna just described where folks in the Republican Party are really more worried about losing a primary challenge than a general election because of the rigged system of redistricting, their power has been artificially increased.

And that is leading to this crisis. So once again you've got this disconnect between partisan politics in Washington and Main Street Americans. And the ultimate result is what we're seeing today. Someone like Speaker John Boehner, suffering from Stockholm syndrome; they can (inaudible) that the people who are forcing him into this position, stopping and passing for example a clean continuing resolution to just fund the government, which he knows is probably the right thing from focusing on legacy items like the grand bargain, or even immigration reform, he can't do those things because he's effectively held captive by folks on the far right. And they have spooked everybody into thinking they will primary challenge them.

That's a fundamental disconnect and that is going to be a growing sense of frustration you see as people realize that this shutdown isn't going away anytime soon.

COSTELLO: Yes I was going to pose that question to Brianna Keilar. Any predictions on how long this shutdown might last?

KEILAR: You know we've heard from folks on both sides. From leaders on both sides Carol that it could last weeks. It's really unclear at this point. I don't think it's going away here in the next couple of days. But the issue of course is when you're looking at the debt ceiling being hit on October 17th as the shutdown pushes on, all of this kind of gets squished together if they're going to find some negotiation to avert these budget battles. It's going to be dealing with the shutdown and the debt ceiling in addition to whatever concessions the White House and Senate Democrats may give on that to achieve those ends. COSTELLO: Brianna Keilar and John Avlon thanks for the discussion this morning. I appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

COSTELLO: Oh some sad news to pass along to you now. The author Tom Clancy has died. He was just 66 years old. Of course Tom Clancy wrote "The Patriot Game", "The Hunt for Red October," just a great bestselling author. Nischelle Turner is in New York to tell us more. Tell us more.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes Carol we are just -- we are just getting this word. And we have confirmed that Tom Clancy did die yesterday. We are still trying to get details of what happened. But "The New York Times" is also reporting that he died in Baltimore yesterday.

You mentioned some of his work. He was the bestselling author known so much for his work that put Jack Ryan into on our books and into on the television. "The Hunt for Red October" you mentioned was his first novel that was published back in 1984. It actually became a bestseller after President Reagan complimented the book.

And then he went on the to write a whole host of books centered around the character Jack Ryan. In 2003 he published "The Teeth of the Tiger" and that kind of shifted a little bit and made Jack Ryan, Jr., the central character. He did have a book that is supposed to be out December 3rd and it's called "Command Authority." That is the latest book in -- in his -- in his arsenal that he's had there.

But again, we are getting word in that author Tom Clancy has died at the age of 66 yesterday. So Carol we are still getting more details on this. And of course we'll follow this throughout the day.

COSTELLO: Yes and he's from Baltimore County, Maryland -- long-time resident of Baltimore.

TURNER: Yes.

COSTELLO: So Tom Clancy dead at the age of 66. Hopefully we'll have more information about that to pass along soon. I want to take a break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A rocky start to the roll out of Obamacare; snarled Web traffic and technical glitches mar the launch of those new health insurance exchanges on Tuesday. Are these just early snags or a sign of big trouble ahead?

CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has been traveling state-to-state to see where the problems are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 8:00 a.m. Eastern, the doors fling open on the new marketplace where millions of Americans should be able to sign up for health insurance; but within minutes, thud. The site started going down. Overwhelmed, they say, by heavy traffic.

New York State: internal service error; Washington State, the same thing. The federal Web site is handling sign-up for 36 states including Pennsylvania. That's where 25-year-old Lauren Hartley tried to sign up.

LAUREN HARTLEY, LAW STUDENT: And then on the third page I asked for, you know, security questions but the page just wasn't populated. So there was some sort of technical glitch. And it just wasn't working.

GUPTA: By midday both the President and his critics were weighing in.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now like every new law, every new product roll-out there are going to be some glitches in the sign up process along the way that we'll fix. I have been saying this from the start. And we're going to be speeding things up in the next few hours to handle all of these demand that exceeds anything what we had expected.

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R), MISSOURI: In a system that's full of glitches -- I think that's the word that's most frequently being used today. "Glitches" means it's not working and I don't think those glitches get any better over the next few weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what's going to go on this one now?

GUPTA: In Lexington, Kentucky, 62-year-old Howard Stovall runs a business making signs.

HOWARD STOVALL, BUSINESS OWNER: Health care costs, obviously is like everybody's has been going up every year. This year if we do nothing and keep the same plan it will be about a 30 percent increase.

GUPTA: He has high hopes for Obama care.

STOVALL: We expect to have a lot more variety in what's available to us and to what's available to our employees.

GUPTA: 3:00. He decides to take a crack to see what he can buy for his workers and for himself.

STOVALL: This is the Kentucky site. Click on the individuals plan. So yes, we have an error. It says we can call customer service but I think we would probably just get a busy signal right now. We have been at it for a while here. I'm still very hopeful long term. We haven't gotten any real information yet. We've gotten errors and roadblocks and some confusing requests to download software.

GUPTA: He wasn't alone. In fact in South Carolina I talked to nearly a hundred people on day one and not one of them was able to get on the sign-up site.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUPTA: Pretty common problem as you see there, Carol. I know you have been talking about this. We heard from HHS that about three million people tried to get online and tried sign up. Here in Kentucky, about only 2,900 people were successful.

So that gives you a little bit of an idea. And also keep in message (ph) that's confused things for a lot of people. In a state like Kentucky you've got a democratic governor, you got two senators -- Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul -- very different views and very different messages they are sending about this whole program in the first place and that adds again to that confusion -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, here is the problem for the Obama administration. So you're a young person and you tried to get online to no avail. Are you going to try again? I mean if you're conflicted, keep in mind Obamacare needs as many young people to sign up as possible because that's partly how it will fund Obamacare -- through insurance policies that young people buy.

GUPTA: That's absolutely right. You know, look, I think people will try again. This open enrollment period is six months long. So it's hard to predict what people's behaviors are going to be. But that was day one. Supposedly things have improved a little bit on day two. But it's even hard to get information because some of the governmental workers from whom we would get that information have been furloughed. That just adds even more to this.

But I think though and keep in mind again Carol that what drives us as well in part is this individual mandate. People who can afford to buy health care insurance must buy it, face a penalty. People who can't afford it can get a subsidy. But the point is that everyone has to purchase this in one way or another over the next six months.

COSTELLO: Sanjay Gupta, reporting live for us. Thanks so much. And I know Sanjay you are in Maryland tomorrow with the questions people are asking about Obamacare there.

GUPTA: You got it.

COSTELLO: You can check out "SANJAY GUPTA MD" every weekend right here on CNN. Thanks, Sanjay.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A small Colorado town is in mourning today following the tragic death of five hikers killed by a rock slide on a popular hiking trail.

Kyung Lah has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Hundreds in Buena Vista filled the high school football stadium to remember the coaches who guided them and the young friends lost.

Five members of the same family all crushed under boulders the size of cars. The only survivor: 13-year-old Gracie Faith Johnson, her leg broken but pulled out alive by a first responder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't see Gracie at first, but he heard somebody screaming. He was able to start digging.

LAH: Gracie's miraculous survival celebrated at this high school as they mourned the lost. Dwayne Johnson, an electrician, coached football part-time. His wife Dawna waited tables at two restaurants to support her family and helped coach the track team. Gracie's sister Kiowa was a senior here and the Johnson's two nephews Paris and Baigen were visiting from Missouri.

The family decided to go hiking Monday morning on this popular trail recommended in guide books for children. The sheriff's department says recent heavy rain and freezing temperatures loosened the massive boulders and triggered the slide.

The reason Gracie is alive? Her father saw the boulders coming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gracie told the rescuing deputy is that her father shielded her from the boulders and pushed her out of the way.

BRIAN YATES, PRINCIPAL: Doesn't surprise me one bit. Dwayne, he would have been there for you and not only you. If you'd have been close enough to him and he saw that coming, he would have done the same thing for you.

LAH: A final act of fatherhood cherished by a child and a community.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Buena Vista, Colorado.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's head out to the Washington Mall and the World War II Memorial because as you can see plenty of people there. You know what -- they don't call them the greatest generation for nothing.

Inside this massive -- there's Jake Tapper, too. He's there covering the story for us. We'll talk to him a bit later. But buried in this mass of people are World War II veterans trying to get in to see the World War II Memorial. And they are holding up a sign. I don't know if you saw it. It says Mr. President, Congress, tear down this wall.

As you know, the monuments have been closed because of the government shutdown. World War II veterans, some in wheelchairs, yesterday broke down barricades to get into the memorial to see it. They were successful.

Something tells me today that these World War II vets in that crowd will be successful too. We'll have much more on this later.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Welcome to "LEGAL VIEW". I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It is Wednesday, October 2nd.

And we begin this hour with the death of a literary powerhouse. Tom Clancy passed away last night in Baltimore, the city where he was born 66 years ago. We really don't know much more than that, but the whole world knows Clancy's work.

He was a master of the blockbuster novels starting with "The Hunt for Red October" back in 1984.