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Most of Congress Still Claiming Paychecks; Who's Keeping Pay, Who's Not; Congressional Leaders Dig in Over Shutdown; Hometown Support for Speaker Boehner; Interview with Congressman Todd Rokita of Indiana; 2011 Video Emerges in Biker Swarm Case

Aired October 03, 2013 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Have a great day. Thanks so much. NEWSROOM starts now.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

It is day three of the government shutdown and the stalemate drags on and party leaders dig in. They come face to face and toe to toe with the White House and by coming together reaffirm that they are still worlds apart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: One thing we made very clear in that meeting, we are locked in tight on Obamacare.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: The president reiterated one more tonight that he will not negotiate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Frustration builds and fractures deepen as more moderate Republicans inch toward breaking ranks with the party. Others go from a simmer to a boil and begrudgingly support a cause they find tough to embrace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA: Now that we have made the jump, set ourselves on fire and made the jump, we have to -- we are now in the valley of death. We decided to go into the valley. We have to run together. We have to stay together in order to -- in order to fight the onslaught that's coming from the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Each day the cuts come closer to home even for those most vulnerable, the children whose families would lose help and such essentials like food and education.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a dire situation and these children's lives are on the line. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: One group that is not suffering at least economically, the majority of lawmakers in both parties. Most are still collecting a paycheck, even as 800,000 federal workers lose theirs.

It's an issue that could cause even the most savvy politicians to squirm and maybe even do an about-face.

Senator Mike Lee of Utah is front and center of that controversy after telling a local reporter he would still collect his paycheck and then he did a 180 saying he was really giving it to charity.

Here's KUTV reporter Chris Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you will continue to be paid, right?

LEE: I'm working and I'll continue to be paid.

CHRIS JONES, KUTV REPORTER: These comments have the national media buzzing. Lee is seen as one of the architects of the plan that led to the government shutdown. We asked him several times --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could almost take one for the team, right?

JONES: -- if he was going to defer his paycheck, like many others in Congress, including Utah's Jason Chaffetz, Jim Matheson, Senator Orin Hatch and national polls like Rand Paul, and fellow shutdown ally, Senator Ted Cruz.

LEE: When lawmakers are in session, when lawmakers are working, they are considered essential. They are not considered expendable.

JONES: The negative press sent Lee's PR team scrambling. They issued a statement claiming that Lee had intended all along to donate his salary to charity but admitted that the senator's explanation was, quote, "muddy."

Lee's PR boss, Brian Phillips, also told 2 News in an e-mail that the senator didn't want to grandstand. He said, quote, "Mike Lee is not the kind of guy to make a big theater production about what and why he gives his money to charity. He is not Ted Cruz or Rand Paul."

In addition to calling out those two senators, Phillips has gone on to tell national media outlets that 2 News got the story wrong and that he's asked for a correction but KUTV stands by the story.

The Lee campaign is talking a lot about the senator's paycheck donation plans, he was defending his plans to keep it.

LEE: You don't want the lawmakers influenced in their decision-making by whether or not they're going to get their paycheck. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Reporter Chris Jones of CNN affiliate KUTV joins me now live from Salt Lake City.

Chris, tell us more about the reaction to the report we just watched.

JONES: Well, the reaction from Lee's people has been kind of two different sides to it. They talk to us they say, you know, the senator was a little muddy in his explanation, but not a big deal, but when they've talked to the national media, what they've been saying is, you know, those rubes down in Salt Lake City, they just got the story wrong.

And the simple fact of the matter is, is we didn't get the story wrong and if you listen to that portion of the interview on KUTV.com you'll see that unedited, you know, we asked him several times, are you going to take your pay or are you going to defer it like some of the other members of Congress, and he repeatedly said that he had every intention of taking that money because he's working and he's going to take that dough even though 800,000 other federal employees have been furloughed.

COSTELLO: OK. So evidently something happened to force a change of mind here. Tell us how angry constituents are in Salt Lake City at him possibly accepting his -- or continuing to take his paycheck.

JONES: Well, on our Facebook page at KUTV we've got several hundred comments from constituents, and they range from enraged to blowing a gasket. I mean people are very upset by what they're hearing and from a political standpoint, you look at some of the other members of the Utah delegation, they've decided that maybe even if it is symbolic, they've decided that they're going to defer that pay, the senator deciding initially he's going to take it.

And I'll tell you, a lot of the constituents in Utah are extremely angry and you can see it almost everywhere you look online, comments that we're getting to our studio.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much, Chris Jones, for waking up early and joining us this morning. Thank you so much.

JONES: You bet.

COSTELLO: In an attempt to avoid a public relations disaster, dozens of other senators and congressmen are donating their paychecks to charity. Others are flat-out refusing their paychecks. Most members of Congress earn about $3300 a week. That's a salary of $174,000 a year. And a majority of lawmakers haven't said if they intend to keep that cash or not.

CNN's Christine Romans joins me now with the full list.

Good morning, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, HOST, YOUR MONEY: Good morning, Carol. Well, for some these lawmakers it's easy really to not take your paycheck or to donate it because remember there are an awful lot of multimillionaires in Congress who are representing you and shutting down your government but just look quickly what this is compared to the average citizen. It's four times. They make four times what the average person in America makes.

Look, the average worker brings home about $829 a week. If you're a federal worker and you're furloughed right now you are hopping mad that your Congress members are still taking pay. So look, some of them are hearing this back home and deciding it's pretty good politics to defer or donate their paychecks.

Let me run through who CNNMoney -- CNN.com, rather, has -- they've got a dynamic list of who is still getting paid and who's going to defer. First of all in the House of Representatives, these folks are donating their paychecks. Eighteen Democrats, 13 Republicans.

Let's take a look at the House members not accepting paychecks, five Democrats and 18 Republicans. Senate members donating their paychecks, 13 Democrats and six Republicans, and also in the Senate, not accepting their paychecks, three Democrats and one Republican.

And here's the list that CNN.com has of those who are keeping, House members who have said they will keep their paychecks. You can see there's a handful of names on this list, and you can go to CNN.com to see if your elected officials indeed are going to defer or donate their pay.

Now remember, they're considered essential, even though, Carol, the thing they're supposed to do is run the government purse strings and instead of doing that, they decided to shut down the government so they essentially have not done their job but they are essential and will get paid -- Carol.

COSTELLO: That's what it say in the Constitution, right? They're essential, they get paid no matter what.

Christine Romans, reporting live for us. Thank you so much.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: President Obama is due to speak next hour. Hs first public comments since meeting with congressional leaders last night.

CNN's Brianna Keilar is at the White House to tell us what the president might say.

Good morning.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. He's going to be keeping up the pressure on Republicans, on House Republicans who want to really delay or defund Obamacare in exchange for government funding. But things are not going so well. I will say that.

We heard from Senator Republican leader Mitch McConnell he called the meeting here at the White House between congressional leaders and President Obama yesterday unproductive and sadly that may be the one point that has bipartisan agreement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): For the first time since the government shutdown, congressional leaders met face-to-face with President Obama at the White House Wednesday night. Both sides emerging with no deal and no signs of progress to end the stalemate.

BOEHNER: The president reiterated one more time tonight that he will not negotiate.

REID: We are through playing these little games.

KEILAR: Republicans still demanding President Obama accept a delay to his signature health care program.

BOEHNER: All we're asking for here is a discussion and fairness for the American people under Obamacare.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Am I exasperated? Absolutely I'm exasperated.

KEILAR: In an interview with CNBC, the president reiterated he won't give in on Obamacare but said he will negotiate on budgetary issues like taxes, spending, entitlement reform, if House Republicans first agree to reopen the government for several weeks.

OBAMA: We have a situation right now where if John Boehner, the speaker of the House, puts a bill on the floor to reopen the government at current funding levels so that we can then negotiate on a real budget that allows us to stop governing from crisis-to-crisis, it would pass.

KEILAR: The president is probably right. But that's not happening any time soon. Instead House Republicans held votes again on funding the government in a piecemeal way. The Senate will surely reject.

Meanwhile, not far from the capital, the World War II Memorial operated by the largely shuttered National Park Service has become a proxy in this battle. To counter images of World War II vets showing up to the barricaded memorial the RNC offering to pay to keep it open.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: Our veterans deserve the freedom to see this memorial and we are willing to pay the bill. Now it's up to the president just to let them in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And now the National Park Service is letting them in, saying that the World War II Memorial, Carol, is now open to World War II veterans. So that's sort of an outrageous image that is now off the table and I think a lot of Americans will be happy at least about that one.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Yes. You're probably right. Thank you very much, Brianna Keilar, reporting live from the White House this morning.

All right. Time to fill the glass half full now. Shall we? The Air Force Navy football game is a go for Saturday. There was concern the nationally televised game would have to be postponed or canceled because of the government shutdown. That's because there would be no appropriated funds to get Air Force to the game in Annapolis, in other words they couldn't pay for them to travel by plane to Annapolis.

But the academy got funds from other sources and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel gave his OK. Another game that was in jeopardy, Army/Boston College. It will also be played on Saturday.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Congressman Tom Rokita says he is keeping his pay during the government shutdown even though 800,000 government federal workers will not get paid. He joins me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: For members of Congress, paychecks may be important but it's political capital that will decide whether they can keep their jobs in Washington and there really no one that has more riding on this battle than the House Speaker John Boehner. He answers to two masters, the Republican Party and the voters back home who will decide his future.

CNN's Joe Johns has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is where John Boehner came from, working class Cincinnati. He's been in Congress since 1990, now at a pivotal moment in Washington, and in a bitter battle over Obamacare, House Speaker John Boehner has a 48 percent unfavorable rating which is an all-time high in CNN polling.

BOEHNER: Nobody knows what the rules are.

JOHNS: At Andy's Cafe which Boehner's family owned the shutdown was no big deal, though government growth and bureaucracy are still an issue. But when I ask Jim Brigger if that means he's with Boehner and the Tea Partiers in Congress he wouldn't say.

JIM BRIGGER, OHIO RESIDENT: Well, the government is way too big and they need to reduce the size of the government. So however you want to take that, that's - you take it that way.

JOHNS: In Boehner's district they were more blunt about it.

IRENE BOEBINGER, OHIO RESIDENT: When John Boehner lived here, he gave the message that he was completely for the people, for the citizens of the country. Since he's been in Washington, I don't know. It just seems like sometimes he goes completely the other direction, sometimes he stays with us. JOHNS: So what makes Boehner tick? He comes from a Catholic family of nine boys and two girls. Went to Moeller High School, a linebacker at one of the most famous football schools in a sport obsessed state. His coach, Jerry Faust (ph), is a legend in Ohio who went on to lead the Notre Dame Fighting Irish.

Faust told me, "I never found a better team player. He always put his teammates first and insisted on playing even when hurt.

A former Boehner spokesman said he's driven by a refusal to give up.

TERRY HOLT, FORMER BOEHNER SPOKESMAN: We've seen John come back from trouble many, many times. He keeps chugging at it. He's a team- builder, and because he's an eternal optimist, I think he can get up every day and go back to work in a very, very difficult circumstance.

JOHNS: So now, for Boehner's constituents, the question is: what he stands to gain in the shutdown?

JOHN O'CONNOR, OHIO RESIDENT: Now did it back in 1996 is when they reopened, you know? Didn't improve anything or do anything else. They're back in the same mess right now.

JOHNS (on-camera): John Boehner comes from one of the most Republican districts in the State of Ohio, so there are people here willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there are also Republicans and Democrats alike who are truly annoyed with both parties in Washington and that includes the speaker of the House.

Joe Johns, CNN, near Cincinnati, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Republican Congressman Todd Rokita will stand with fellow Republicans in just about an hour to talk about the government shut down, but he's made his feelings clear. He says this crisis is less about shutting down the government and more about protecting people from Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TODD ROKITA (R), INDIANA: We want to keep the government open. We just want to help the American people get by and through what is one of the most insidious laws ever created by man. And that is Obamacare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Still, a growing group of Republicans are ready to call it quits on the Obamacare fight, like Republican Scott Rigell, who spoke to CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SCOTT RIGELL (R), VIRGINIA: Now, we're at a point, what are we fighting for, the delay of one-year of the individual mandate and also the elimination of some subsidies. My point is I don't think a continued shutdown advances our conservative agenda.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, you want the speaker to bring up a clean bill, no strings attached, to fund the entire government?

RIGELL: That's correct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Joining us now is the congressman you saw a moment ago, Todd Rokita, a Republican from Indiana.

Welcome, Congressman.

ROKITA: Hey, Carol. Good to be back.

COSTELLO: Can we get just get the paycheck out of the way? We did a lot about lawmakers accepting their paychecks while government workers can't get their paychecks at this particular time. Are you accepting your paycheck?

ROKITA: I am. You know, I'm here at my duty station trying to keep the government open. We produced no less than four different scenarios and plans that Harry Reid and the senate Democrats and the president rejected. So, as long as I'm at my duty station, as long as I'm working, I'm going to keep my paycheck.

COSTELLO: But you know how angry, angry a lot of people are cross the country that lawmakers are choosing to keep their paychecks. They said, why should you keep your paychecks when government workers can't receive theirs because you're actually not doing your job?

ROKITA: Well, first of all, every time the government shut down in the past, government workers when they came back got back pay. And furthermore, even the lawmakers who are saying they won't get paid have to get paid under the Constitution. So the best they're doing is holding their pay at the clerk's desk.

COSTELLO: So why don't you hold your pay or donate it to charity like so many other lawmakers are doing?

ROKITA: Well, I'm fortunate and lucky that Kathy and I both donate a lot to charity, and we're privileged to be able to do so, and we'll continue to do so. But it sends the wrong message. I don't intend to send the message that I'm not doing my job. In fact we are doing our job and we're fighting on behalf of the American people, we're fighting to get rid, like I said before, one of the most insidious laws ever developed by man.

COSTELLO: OK, well let's talk about that part of the argument now, because congressman, after hearing your fellow lawmakers Scott Rigell, Republican, are you worried you're beginning to lose the battle? Because he says come on, we've lost the fight, we've made our point, it's time to move on and fight another day.

ROKITA: Well, we're fighting for fairness for the American people. You know, President Obama has delayed about 19 parts of this law over the last eight months. One of those was a delay of the employer mandate -- the idea that the big companies in this country don't have to abide by a portion of Obamacare.

We think if it's not ready for primetime for big companies, individuals should have the same break and we should delay the individual mandate as well.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: We're going to get into the same fight.

ROKITA: Hold on, Carol, we should make sure that Congress is equally under this law, like the American people are, if it's so good for the American people it should be good for Congress.

And so, I disagree with Scott. I like him a lot, he's a friend, but I am fighting for fairness to the American people and that's the latest negotiation that's on the table, why wouldn't we fight for that? Who wants Congress to be treated differently than the American people? If people are so angry like you say and rightfully so, they should be angry that they have to live under a law that Congress doesn't.

COSTELLO: Well, I'm just asking you why that should be connected to the federal budget. Let me run this other thing by you.

ROKITA: Sure.

COSTELLO: Another Republican, Devin Nunes of California, he's one of the Republicans also slamming his party for this divisive approach. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA: Now that we have made the jump, set ourselves on fire and made the jump, we have to -- we are now in the valley of death. We decided to go into the valley, we have to run together. We have to stay together, in order to fight the onslaught that's coming from the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, the congressman goes on to say the Democrats are giddy about this government shutdown because it's hurting Republicans.

So, if that's true --

ROKITA: Well, all I can tell you is my observation on the floor of the House last night, they didn't seem giddy. They seemed pretty frustrated because we continue to offer plans for keeping the government open and parts of the government open and they just voted last night against veterans. They just voted last night against research at the NIH.

We are for these things. We are for keeping the government open. We are against Obamacare. And pretty soon, this is all going to come together and the debt ceiling.

COSTELLO: I'm pretty sure the Democrats are for those things, too but the piecemeal approach they object to. Like funding the parts of the government that are noncontroversial that Republicans like and not funding others.

ROKITA: If they're for it, Carol -- if they're for it, Carol, what does the process matter? Keep it open, keep parts of it open. Let veterans go see the World War II Memorial like they've been trying to do for the last two days. It's simple.

COSTELLO: Is this how we want to decide our federal budget? I mean, really, is this the right way to go?

ROKITA: Well, the wrong way to go for the Senate not to produce a budget for the last four years. As a member of the Budget Committee, I'm proud of the budget we produced, it balanced in ten years, balanced one year before the 10-year window, and all we've seen from the Democrats and the president are budget proposals that never balance.

What we're fighting for at the end of the day, Carol, I don't know if you have children yet or grandchildren, you look much too young.

COSTELLO: Thank you.

ROKITA: We're fighting for them. Every child doesn't want $60,000 of debt assigned to them of the public debt. And it continues to go on. It's not even the $17 trillion now, Carol. It's the $100 trillion on the way if we don't reform the way we do business in Washington, and that's really what the fight is about.

COSTELLO: No, this fight is about Obamacare in your mind. It's not about reforming the system. You're not talking about reforming our tax system, or et cetera, et cetera.

ROKITA: Do you know how much this law is going to cost? It's an insidious law because it's a lie. It says it's going to be affordable.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Do you know how much it costs every day the government is partially shut down? You are taxpayers millions of dollars.

ROKITA: I understand that and Obama is going to cost the children of tomorrow $2 trillion just over the next 10 years. So, Obamacare hurts this economy. Obamacare hurts this country much more, much more than any government shutdown.

COSTELLO: Seriously, the debt ceiling fight coming up.

ROKITA: Seriously, Carol. Seriously, Carol.

COSTELLO: Obamacare hurts the country worse than not raising the debt ceiling? ROKITA: Seriously, Carol.

COSTELLO: That's not what a bunch of Wall Street bankers told the president yesterday.

ROKITA: Well, I had a lot of CEOs in my office yesterday and they shared with me the same vision apparently some CEOs shared with the president. The CEOs in my offices yesterday were mothers and fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers as well.

And every generation, Carol, including ours, to date, has cared more about the future generation than ourselves. And if we don't change our ways, if we don't work together, if we don't get government spending under control, so we don't put on our plate --

COSTELLO: We're not working together. We're not remotely even working together.

ROKITA: Well, the one way we don't help the children of tomorrow is by putting $2 trillion more on their plate and that's what Obamacare spends over the next ten years. It's an insidious law. It's a lie. It is not providing more affordable health care. People are losing their health care.

COSTELLO: I think most Americans would say fight that fight separate from the federal budget. Don't partially shut down the government. Don't make things worse like fighting the same fight over and over --

ROKITA: But it is. Carol, we seem to go around in circles.

COSTELLO: Right, we're going in circles. Right. That's what you guys are doing.

ROKITA: You're part of the problem. The media is part of the problem as well.

COSTELLO: Come on, that's so easy. That's so easy.

ROKITA: Carol, you're beautiful but you have to be honest as well.

COSTELLO: OK, I think we should leave it here. Thank you so much for joining me, Congressman Todd Rokita.

ROKITA: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come on the NEWSROOM -- we hear from a biker who was part of that swarm on an SUV driver in New York, and we're also hearing from the wife of the SUV driver. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

For the first time, we're hearing from one of the bikers who was part of that swarm on an SUV driver in New York City and we're hearing from the SUV's driver's wife. By now, you've seen the video. The swarm of bikers surrounding an SUV.

One of those bikers, Jerome Davis, telling CNN they just wanted the SUV to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME DAVIS, WITNESSED BIKER SWARM ATTACK: It's just a few seconds, as everything happened so fast. It happened so quick. And fellow rider underneath -- just totally right underneath the car and they kept proceeding him on.

Not harassing him but not in the way of threatening him but they wanted to pull over, to have them pull over, not in the way of threatening him. I kind of feel he was afraid. You see, he was afraid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now, the wife of that SUV driver is also speaking out as I told you, telling NBC her husband was, quote, "placed in grave danger by a mob of reckless and violent motorcyclists", and that he acted "to protect the lives of our entire family."

This case has prompted authorities to look at another unrelated incident from 2011. This new video shows more bikers antagonizing a driver at a busy intersection. Looks familiar, doesn't it?

Pamela Brown is following the story from New York.

Good morning, Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, too, Carol.

At this point, there's no indication to show the videos are linked but police are actively investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident and trying to determine what may have sparked it.

So far, no charges have been filed in connection with the assault on that driver, Alexian Lien, and now, new pictures show the scene apparently right after he was attacked.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Brand new photos give new perspective to the violent videotaped encounter between a group of motorcyclists and the driver of a black Range Rover. These pictures from "The New York post" appear to show Alexian Lien, the driver of the SUV, on the ground, allegedly beaten and slashed by the bikers.

Police released these two pictures of one of the suspects who they believe was banging on Lien's SUV with his helmet. But some are calling for Lien to face charges.