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Government Shutdown Continues; D.C. Shooting Incident Discussed

Aired October 04, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Good afternoon to our viewers in the United States. I want to welcome our viewers in the U.S. and around the world.

Government shutdown, day four. No end in sight. Plenty of rhetoric, of course, but no progress in ending the shutdown. At any moment, we're expecting Senate Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid, to speak live.

And just a short time ago, the president of the United States chose a sandwich shop as a platform to make clear where he stands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Part of the reason we're here is we're starving and the food here is great. The other part of it, though, is that right now this establishment is providing a 10 percent discount to all federal workers who are on furlough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus a cookie.

OBAMA: Plus a cookie. And that, I think, is an indication of how ordinary Americans look out for each other and aren't obsessed with, you know, politics and aren't trying to extract concessions out of each other. They just are trying to make sure that everybody's doing their job and that we're doing what's best for the country.

There's no winning when families don't have certainty about whether they're going to get paid or not. I've got - I've got staff in the White House. There's staff all across the country, in rural areas who are working for the Agricultural Department, who are working for Veterans Affairs, who are on their job, despite the fact that they're not getting paid or have been sent home and want to be on their job because they're looking after their fellow citizens on a whole range of services. And as long as they're off the job, nobody's winning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hmm, interesting. So these impromptu comments from the president just a couple of hours ago after Republican House leaders met and apparently decided to ratchet up pressure on the president and the Democrats. This is what happened when they stepped out of the meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: This isn't some damn game. The American people don't want their government shut down and neither do I. All we're asking for is to sit down and have a discussion and to bring fairness -- reopen the government and bring fairness to the American people under Obamacare. It's as simple as that.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MAJORITY LEADER: This week, the American people have seen once again that Obamacare is not ready for primetime. A dysfunctional website is the least of that law's problems.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), MAJORITY WHIP: Senior White House administration says it doesn't matter how long we're shut down. I believe it does. I believe the 57 Democrats who joined with us on passing the legislation to open government back up believe it matters as well.

REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R), WASHINGTON: We continue to hear from the president that the way out of this shutdown is to basically give him everything he wants. He wants the easy way out, without addressing the debt crisis, without addressing a stagnant economy, without addressing an unaffordable health care law. We've heard the president say that the Republicans are holding the U.S. hostage. He's said he has bent over backwards to work with us. His words may sound good, but you know what, actions speak louder than words.

BOEHNER: Our goal here wasn't to shut down the government. Our goal here was to bring fairness to the American people under Obamacare. I don't believe that we should default on our debt. It's not good for our country. But after 55 years of spending more than what you bring in, something ought to be addressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, did you hear the first words out of House Speaker John Boehner's mouth? And this is a quote, he said, "this isn't some damn game." Really interesting considering the exchange caught on a hot mike between Senator Rand Paul, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Do you - do you have a second?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), MINORITY LEADER: I'm all wired up here. Um --

PAUL: I just did CNN, and I just go over and over again, 'we're willing to comprise. We're will to negotiate.' I think - I don't think they poll tested 'we won't negotiate.' I think it's awful for them to say that over and over again.

MCCONNELL: Yes, I do, too. And I just came back from that two hour meeting with him and that was - that was basically the same view privately as it was publically.

PAUL: I think if we kept saying, 'we wanted to defund it, we fought for that, but now we're willing to compromise on this,' I think they can't - I mean we're going to - we, I think, well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're going to win this, I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Ah, well, you hear that from Senator Rand Paul, "we're going to win this." Interestingly, a day later, you heard Speaker John Boehner saying this isn't a damn game. Boehner was actually reacting to a comment from a senior Obama administration official to "The Wall Street Journal" who said, quote, "we are winning this fight."

I want to talk about this with all my guests now. Candy Crowley, she's our chief political correspondent and host of CNN's "State of the Union." And on the right, CNN political commentator and conservative host Ben Ferguson. And on the left, Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.

Candy, I mean, can't we just make this stop? The speaker had to have heard this open mike. So why on earth did he even bring that up?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, if you don't think that both sides look at this through a political lens, as well as a policy lens, then you're not paying that much attention. This is the fact of it, that political games get played in Washington is lore. It's not a revelation. That the Republicans were saying, listen, you know, they're refusing to negotiate, was pretty evident on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, before this secret conversation, when Republicans were out there saying, well, he'll - you know, the president will negotiate with Syria, but he won't negotiate with us. They clearly think that they are on a path that will help them convince the public that they're right and the Democrats are wrong because absent - I mean there's no movement here. Let's - I mean that's kind of the bottom line.

LEMON: Candy -

CROWLEY: Yes, sir.

LEMON: Candy, we want to go to Senate leaders now.

CROWLEY: Yes.

LEMON: So stand by, guys. Let's listen in. Including Harry Reid.

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: Last night the president announced he was (ph) taking a trip to Asia for the two summits that he had. The shutdown is obviously unfair to the American people, embarrassing to the American people, especially on the world stage. It's very important to international events the president had been planning to attend for a long time. He's being hamstrung in his efforts to keep America competitive and secure because Republicans simply are unwilling to allow us to open the government.

It's kind of a basic function of what we do, allow the government to move forward. The shutdown is hurting our economy. I had a long telephonic conversation today with elected officials in Nevada, state and local officials. They're really concerned. The state of Nevada is losing revenue as a result of the shutdown, as most states are losing revenue.

This, though, is just not an economic issue. It's also an issue about national security. The government shutdown is hurting our ability to enforce the sanctions on Iran, to gather intelligence, operate our armed forces, just to name a few. The Treasury Department is furloughed 90 percent of the employees in the office of terrorism, financing, and intelligence. That's their charge. And they're not able to fulfill that.

Of the 179 employees in the United States government sanctions monitoring agency, there's only 11 out of 175 there working today. Undersecretary of State Wendy Sherman said, and I quote, "our ability to enforce sanctions to stop sanction evaders is being hampered significantly by the shutdown," close quote. Seventy-two percent of the intelligence communities (INAUDIBLE) work force has been idled by the government shutdown.

Listen to this, everyone. When I was shown these figures this morning, it was really incredible that -- what's happened. Nine hundred Ph.D.s, 4,000 computer scientists and 1,000 mathematicians not working. Even prior to the shutdown, the director of the FBI, James Comey, warned that his agency would have to implement furlough days just to meet the painful sequester. Now it's worse than that.

LEMON: All right, that's Harry Reid speaking, of course, on Capitol Hill.

And I want to bring my panel back in.

Panel, it appears nothing has changed. Candy, you were in the middle of a sentence and --

CROWLEY: Saying nothing has changed substantially. Yes, absolutely.

LEMON: Right.

CROWLEY: And we can reiterate that now.

LEMON: So we'll move on.

I just want to get a quick response from all of you. You know, Candy, you were saying, you know, for those who think that Washington - that this isn't a political game and that it doesn't work that way, you're sadly naive, right? And we all know it, but you kind of cringe when you hear it. It seems like you're eavesdropping on a private conversation and they're talking about talking points and what they're going to do in strategy and they're saying it's not a game, but it appears somewhat of a game to them. Does that, Ben -

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well -

LEMON: Go ahead.

FERGUSON: I mean, earlier, when you introduced this segment, you said, President Barack Obama headed out for an impromptu lunch. It wasn't an impromptu lunch to get a sandwich. This is an orchestrated effort by Jay Carney, who is grinning in the background, to get the president to go out, make a political statement, act like he's one of the guys and saying, here's a place you can come eat for 10 percent off. You think Barack Obama knew that place was giving 10 percent off or do you think his staff said, hey, we need to respond to the Republicans and go out.

LEMON: Yes.

FERGUSON: So it is, unfortunately, a really big game.

LEMON: Right.

FERGUSON: Here's the problem. You just heard all the terrible things that can happen, as Harry Reid's talking about, with intelligence, this important trip and everything that's being canceled. There's a place called Camp David. I think Barack Obama should maybe plan a trip to Camp David, get everybody away from the cameras and say, we're going to hang out for three days instead of 30 minutes at the White House and see if we can work this out if it's not a game. But I don't think he has a plan for that this weekend.

LEMON: What good would it be to spend money to do all of that? So, I mean, why can't -- come on, they can meet at the White House, they can meet some other place.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

LEMON: I get your point, but I don't see - I don't see why they would go all the way to Camp David to do it. And you're right, it is a game. It is a political game. But I'd have to say, when the president came out today with the vice president, going to a sandwich shop, he did look like the average Joe to most voters. And it was a pretty good strategy if Jay Carney did come up with it.

FERGUSON: (INAUDIBLE).

CARDONA: Yes. Yes.

LEMON: Go ahead, Maria.

CARDONA: It was a very good political strategy. And Ben's right, of course it was planned. Everything that the president does publicly is planned. There's no question about that. And Americans know that. But I think the problem here - I think --

LEMON: But let me - let me say something here - let me say something here.

CARDONA: Sure.

LEMON: There is a difference, though, between planning something and going out and doing it, then being overheard saying, here's what I want you to do, Mr. President, I want you to roll your sleeves up and here's one (ph) of the talking points.

CARDONA: Oh, absolutely. Oh, yes. Yes.

LEMON: There's a difference between the two.

CARDONA: No question, and that's exactly what I was about to talk about, Don, because here's the problem for Republicans. That hot mike moment made an already untenable and indefensible position even more so because it demonstrates to the American people, especially in light of the juxtaposition of what Boehner said this morning that this isn't a game, that this is exactly what the game is for Republicans. And even worse, they are the ones who started this game. The government could be open right now if Republicans, and especially the small band of Tea Partiers who are now controlling John Boehner, who, frankly, said after the election that, for him, Obamacare was done and that that wasn't an issue. There was an election and it's been decided. He clearly is now being controlled by the puppeteers in the Tea Party.

FERGUSON: But, Don -

LEMON: I'm glad you -- I'm glad you mentioned that.

If you can do it real quickly, because I have something for Candy. Go ahead.

FERGUSON: Yes. No, I would say this. If -- and I said this the other day. If the White House and every Democrat watching thinks that this is just a bunch of crazy nut job Republicans who can't compromise, then why did Barack Obama walk out and say, I refuse to compromise at the starting point on this? Somebody, and if you're assuming the Republicans are all crazy and off the rockers, someone has to be the common sense guy to come forward. Going to a sandwich shop, as the president just did, instead of saying, let's get away from the cameras, let's work on a deal, let's try to get something done, is what presidents are supposed to do.

LEMON: OK.

FERGUSON: And that's exactly why there's Camp David. Other presidents did it.

CARDONA: That's what he tried to do. That's what he tried to do this week, Ben, he invited -

FERGUSON: He hasn't gone to Camp David.

CARDONA: He invited them -

FERGUSON: He hasn't invited them to Camp David.

LEMON: So, Candy -

CARDONA: I agree with Don, he should - he - he invited them -

LEMON: Candy, we're going to get these two in a room -- we're going to get these two in a room and then you and I will go into a room and we'll continue our conversation and we'll let them hash it out.

So this is for Candy. Candy, I want you to watch this ad targeting John Boehner. It's from a group that backs Democrats. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaker John Boehner didn't get his way on shutting down health care reform, so he shut down the government and hurt the economy.

House Majority PAC is responsible for the content of this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's good, Candy. I mean when this -- well, this will actually air in Boehner's district during Sunday's game between the Bengals and the Patriots. I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, but is it effective?

CROWLEY: Well, if their point is to unseat John Boehner when he runs for re-election next year, I doubt it. And therein lies the problem there. And also some of the reason that this is happening, and that is, when you look at the Republicans, some of them -- what is it, 85 percent of all House members are incumbents that were re-elected. Most of the House is in a safe seat. And that includes the Republicans and the Democrats. And they are there, they believe, to represent their district. So that's their world view is their district.

The Senate's world view is, you know, tends to be state-wide, where they need independence to get re-elected. Independence hates stuff like this. So their world view is different. And the president looks at a kind of -- looks at it from a federal, sort of national look. And, obviously, the polls are clearly with him. So everybody has a different audience here. And they are, if you want to continue this, playing this game with different players. So it makes it very difficult for them to find commonality here.

LEMON: Yes. And every time -- listen, I can't tell you, when I bump into people in the grocery store or if it's my office mate (ph), whoever it is, they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm sick of hearing this same thing over and over. What are they doing?

And just a quick question, Ben and Maria.

FERGUSON: Yes.

LEMON: I have a segment on my show called "no talking points" and I think you participated in it, Ben. Do you know how that came about? Rand Paul -

FERGUSON: I'm curious and I'm -

LEMON: Rand Paul came on my show during the election cycle and started spouting off talking points and I said, that's it, I'm done with the talking points.

CARDONA: I remember that, yes.

LEMON: Yes, on both sides. And so - and then there he is on camera saying, here's what we should say.

Candy, thank you.

CARDONA: Talking points, poll testing, that's the American people (INAUDIBLE).

FERGUSON: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: Yes, Candy's right. Candy's right. Candy's right. If anyone thinks that this is all not just a big game, they're nuts.

CARDONA: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you, Candy. Thank you, Ben.

FERGUSON: I'm just glad we saw an ad that we can -- we can all agree is childish and a baby crying. At least we can all agree on that, right?

LEMON: And thank you, Maria.

CARDONA: Just like the Republicans.

CROWLEY: Definitely someone (ph) crying.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. I give up. Good-bye.

Candy, thank you.

CARDONA: Never. Never, Don.

LEMON: Candy's the only one with any couth on the panel. Thank you, guys.

Up next here on CNN, new revolutions about the woman behind the wheel of this car. The dramatic car chase on Capitol Hill ended in a mother's death. We now know what investigators found inside her apartment and why she believed President Obama was monitoring her.

Plus, happening right now, the family of the biker who was reportedly paralyzed during this attack is coming forward and insists we're not hearing the whole story. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. We are digging for answers today. There are so many questions after the wild car chase and shooting on Capitol Hill yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, my -- what this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) just happened? That was (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pretty close (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: We all watched the scene play out. It was chaotic. So chaotic. A police cruiser crashed through a barricade. The chase started after a woman drove up to a barrier outside the White House. I want you to watch what happened when authorities tried to talk to her.

(VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the woman sped along Pennsylvania Avenue, all the way to the Capitol. There was more gunfire when she stopped and she was hit several times and killed. When police looked inside the car, they found no weapons, but they did find the woman's one-year-old daughter in the back seat. The child, fortunately, is OK. But the way police handled the situation raising multiple questions here. Joining me now in New York, former NYPD detective Gil Alba. He is here to help sort through all of this. No gun, no bomb, a child, people are wondering why -- did police act properly in this case.

GIL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, all these police departments are trained and they work within each other and especially around the White House. So they're trained for this. They're trained for terrorism. They're trained for anything like this. So all this, what they did, I mean, with her, and they didn't know it was a female in the car, of course, all this that they did, you know, was acting properly as far as trying to stop her from doing something which means that she could have bombs in the car, she could have anything. She was trying to get into the White House, and nobody's going to stop her. Then once she takes off, there's shots fired.

Now, all these different police departments have 911 - their own 911s, so they hear all these calls with shots fired and, you know, this crazy person driving around and they try to block her off and she rams them.

LEMON: Right.

ALBA: So --

LEMON: I'm surprised when people say - wonder, why was this woman shot? You know, sadly, she was shot. But when you look at the video, and if someone -- the car's a deadly weapon, right?

ALBA: Right.

LEMON: Police don't know if she has a weapon inside the car until they stop the car. So, again, sadly, she was shot. But I think most people would say, and if there's an investigation, that the police were justified in shooting her.

ALBA: Well, I certainly feel that the police were justified in the fact that, you know, you approached her and she -- now you know it's a woman getting on the car and starting to run. I mean here she is, all this, and now she's starting to run someplace, you know, outside the car. What -- does she have a weapon on her? There's already shots fired. Does anybody know whether she shot back or anything else? Is there something in the car? So they took the proper action and stopped her. LEMON: There was a lot found in her apartment. She's 34 year old - 34 years old, Miriam Carey. She lived in Stamford, Connecticut.

ALBA: Right.

LEMON: They found a laptop in her apartment. They found a flash drive, three cell phones that don't work, medicine used to treat schizophrenia and symptoms of bipolar disorder, an antidepressant. What else might police be looking for?

ALBA: Well, what's the big picture here? What is she doing all this? They didn't really know at this point when they went to her house. First of all they're looking for explosives.

LEMON: Right.

ALBA: So they didn't go in right away. Hazmat and everything, they checked there. What's the big picture here? Is any terrorists involved? Anybody else involved? Anything else?

LEMON: Right.

ALBA: And that's really what they're looking for first.

LEMON: Stand by, stand by, detective. I want to bring in now psychologist Dr. Wendy Walsh in Los Angeles.

Wendy, we talked about this just the other day. You were sitting right here on the set with me in New York and we talked about mental issues, anger, all those things. Carey's boyfriend says she was acting delusional, suffered from postpartum depression. What does all of this say to you?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, first of all, Don, if you don't mind, I want to correct you. You use the words the one-year-old is OK. Physically, that one-year-old may have survived this, but the emotional trauma of watching your mother be murdered before your eyes will be stored in that baby's bones for the rest of her life.

LEMON: I agree. I agree.

WALSH: This is a terrible tragedy.

But let me say this. Postpartum depression can go so far as to become postpartum psychosis. There are some who believe that maybe that's what Britney Spears may have suffered from when she was going through her hard time. Of course, in her case, and with her career, there was so much money at stake that she got all the mental health services she need.

I have so many questions about this, Don. If this boyfriend, the father of the baby, was so concerned, were they still living together? Where was his family? Where was her family? Who are all the people who had a biological interest in this child and how could they have surrounded her?

LEMON: Hey, Wendy, can we stop right there?

WALSH: Go ahead.

LEMON: Can we stop right there because -- and I agree with you about the child. Absolutely. You can correct me any time. But here's the other thing. When you said who are - I just want to go on your thought here. Many times, and you know this very well, even family members, there's a stigma associated with mental health and mental illness. People don't want to talk about it or they ignore it when it's right in front of their eyes. Do you think that they - that probably could - or possibly could have been the case here? And how do we - how do we correct that?

WALSH: It certainly may have been the case, Don. And stigma, I'll tell you what's worse than stigma, though, is when there actually are concerned adults who can't get help because their child is an adult. You know, you can actually only help your child with mental illness until they're 18. And then after that, they're actually free to be crazy if they choose not to take their meds, et cetera.

But now you've got a baby and maybe Department of Children Services should have been involved if she wasn't taking her meds or wasn't reacting to her meds the way she should have been, but I think more people needed to surround this family with support. This is a tragedy.

LEMON: She thought the president had put Stamford under lockdown and her house was under surveillance. This is very reminiscent of the recent Navy shooter, you remember, who, you know, went into the Navy Yard and started shooting.

WALSH: Yes.

LEMON: He thought that he was being controlled by magnetic waves or something. And so, you know, these are signs of a deeper depression and a deeper psychosis here, one would think. And, Wendy, the interesting thing that I want to say going back to our conversation that we just had the other day, this woman is in obvious need of mental health, and that means health care. And so what they're doing in Washington is not really helping her, is it?

WALSH: No, not until she can go to healthcare.gov, right, and get good coverage.

LEMON: Right.

WALSH: No, I think - I think, really, what we need to do is find a pathway to be able to surround and support all the single parents, whether they have mental illness or not, but specifically those who are clearly suffering from mental illness, to make sure that we, as a village, protect her and her child because there is a minor involved there. This is a baby whose life will be affected for the rest of her life. And I think it's - it's a tragedy.

And by the way, Don, I know you guys were talking about that the police were totally in their right to just shoot her in the head. But I don't know, I've been watching a lot of cop shows. Can't they just shoot the tires? And doesn't that make the car stop? I'm sorry, it's not my specialty.

LEMON: Well, no, I agree - I agree with you, but maybe we can get the detective back in but if I'm a police officer and you don't know what's behind - maybe you -- who knows? What do you say to that?

ALBA: Well, first, there was no stopping this person. You know, her mental illness or not, she went on her own. What was her mission here?

LEMON: Yes.

ALBA: I don't even know what she -- and she had the baby in the back. And she ran out of the car. And she was out. You know, her mission was, I think, to destroy herself.

LEMON: Yes.

ALBA: And this is one way of destroying herself.

LEMON: Wendy, listen, I understand what you're saying, and no one wants this woman to have been shot and killed. But if you look at that video, she is going after those officers with that car, which is a deadly weapon. And, yes, we all have empathy. But if I was a police officer, I would do whatever I could to save my life. So, thank you both.

ALBA: And, you know, one thing about shooting --

WALSH: Yes, it's understandable.

ALBA: When you shoot, you mean to shoot somebody. You don't mean to stop some - you know and that.

LEMON: Right.

ALBA: And that. So you don't shoot somebody in the leg because then you have control over that.

LEMON: Yes. Yes.

Thank you, detective. Thank you, Wendy.

ALBA: OK. Thanks for having me.

LEMON: More of this conversation. We'll continue to talk about this.

So, who was Miriam Carey? We'll learn more about her tonight when her sister speaks exclusively to "AC 360" about their loved one who was shot and killed on Capitol Hill. Miriam Carey's sister talks exclusively to "AC 360" tonight, 8:30 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

And we're watching a tropical storm in the Gulf of Mexico right now. How big a threat will it be and what are those who live along the coast doing to prepare? We're going to have a live report for you.

Plus, we're finding out more about who will be charged in that biker attack on an SUV driver in New York. Don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)