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Tropical Storm Karen Spinning In Gulf of Mexico; Back To Work For 400,000 Federal Employees; Navy Seals in Somalia and Libya; U.S. SEALs Capture Abu Anas al Libi in Libya

Aired October 05, 2013 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon. We appreciate you joining us here on CNN.

We are going to begin with the severe weather this hour. It is making life very interesting, so say the least, for people all over the country. Tornadoes, blizzards and tropical storms. Where do we begin here? This is the gulf coast right now. It looks beautiful and calm. But a tropical storm is spinning in the gulf about 100 miles off the Louisiana coast.

Emergency officials are preparing for a major storm but CNN forecasters don't expect tropical storm Karen to be much more than a rainmaker in the coming days. Still going to make a lot of rain.

In the Midwest, let's go to Nebraska first. A tornado that struck the town of Wayne, produced damage on the scale of EF-4 storm. That means winds up to 200 miles per hour. Nobody was killed but a few hours destroyed and some people were hurt.

South Dakota, surprise! Here is a pile of snow for you. Thirty to 40 inches of snow fell in just 24 hours. Today, people in the plains are digging out, clearing the roads and checking their calendars. It is just the first week of October, welcome to winter, everyone.

Our meteorologist Chad Meyers joins us from the CNN weather center. A lot of weather to talk about here. Let's start with tropical storm Karen, go.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Still there, didn't die off yet, but doesn't have a good signature, Don. The center of Karen is there. You are saying no it's not, the center of Karen is there. No, that's the problem. The center is here, the storms are not because the storms are not over the center. The storm can't get any bigger and it is about to die. That's great news. It went it be over Plaquemines Parish in a couple of hours, flying on his thing offshore here, the south of (INAUDIBLE), probably. And then finally into the big bend there in the parts of Florida and maybe even over Jacksonville.

If the storm gets bigger or if it stay on the left side, we could see maybe winds of 40 and 45 miles wind with this storm will knock down some trees and obviously, knock down some power lines as well. Right now, it's not very impressive.

Not as impressive as this. How many times ever, I will say zero, have I ever talked about three-feet of snow on a tropical storm in the same shelf? No, it doesn't happen. Casper mountain 28 inches, even down into Macy, Colorado, a foot of snow. And still, blizzard warnings going on at this hour. It is still snowing out there. It's still snowing hard and the winds are still blowing 30 to 40.

Also, a couple of thunderstorms popping up still in Iowa back to Wisconsin and Minneapolis. And just have one cell went very close to Chicago, not that long ago. It went just to the west of the city and right on up to the lakeshore here. There it goes, right there. And that had a severe thunderstorm warning on it with a little bit of tree limb damage around Chicago land. Take a look at that later in the show.

LEMON: Chad Myers, we will get back to you. Thank you sir.

Tropical storm Karen, the want to be hurricane that never was, is New Orleans. The city dodged -- there it is, dodged severe weather strike. The tropical storm is called off. And out forecaster say, the storm will just get weaker as it sits and spins over the gulf of Mexico like Chad Myers said, Karen is pretty much a dud.

So, I want to bring in now Nick Valencia. He is right in Pensacola, Florida there.

So Nick, the storm will going to bring a lot of rain, high winds a little bit later. What are things like right there now? It looks beautiful.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is gorgeous out here, Don. And people then, you talk to the locals here, they are all not that impressed with what Karen has been so far. Chad Myers sort of putting it into perspective for all of us. The biggest concern right now, take look right now here what we have on Pensacola Beach. Those are the rough rip currents. Lifeguards is about 11:00 a.m. eastern yesterday told all the swimmers to get out of the water because they think it's too strong out there right now. And that is one of the causes of this tropical storm moving its way up toward the northern gulf coast, people are anxious and want to get into the water, really, enjoying this shot here. We have seen so many people, tourists and residents. This, really, is a big tourist hot spot.

There's been a lot of good news, you know. Earlier on this week, this was anticipated being a very major event or at least a significant event, perhaps, at one time, a hurricane. We are not hearing that anymore. The national hurricane center says that there is no longer the possibility of this to turn into a hurricane. So, that's a really good news.

Some of the precautions though that people are taking here is this area, Don, is really gotten hit over the last couple years with recent storms. This area is still saturated. It causes significant problems when you think about the trees and how easily they can be uprooted because of past storms. But, you know, being out here, talking to residents, Don, they are not all that concerned. We have not seen boards being put up. We haven't see any houses being boarded up right now. And people are just waiting for the rain to come, one to three inches expected here. So, not that significant so far -- Don.

LEMON: Those folks here are warriors. They are soldiers. They know how to deal with this. Tough assignment you got there, Nikky.

VALENCIA: Yes, yes, yes. We are making due with what we got.

LEMON: I know what's going to happen tonight after you finish this broadcast. Enjoy for me. See you soon, Nick Valencia, in Pensacola, Florida.

VALENCIA: Bye.

LEMON: Back to work for 400,000 federal workers. Don't get excited just yet. The government shutdown not over. We are going to explain that next.

And all the hostility in Washington, why are we so angry? Can't we all just get along?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Congress working today, not a lot getting accomplished, but a shutdown solution is not on the horizon. Either here is what lawmakers got done so far. About 400,000 furloughed employees will be asked to return to work next week. Defense secretary Chuck Hagel says the law allows civilian workers return if they are responsible for helping service members.

Plus this, the House unanimously and a bill to give back pay to all furloughed government employees. The agreement ended there though. Political head butting, again, after that vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: The speaker has said that his concern is the motion to instruct. Today, we standing here are making an unprecedented offer, by the minority, to the majority to the speaker of the House. If you will agree to pass a short term bill and move the conference, the final budget discussion for this fiscal year, we will not offer any motions to instruct. This is news, my friends. Please recognize it as such.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: We can work this out and we have, for the period now, in fact going back five years thought that this shutdown has been brought about by the president's unwillingness to sit down and talk with members of Congress on the hill.

REP. LYNN JENKINS (R), KANSAS: Contrary to what the president and those in the White House believe, there are no winners when the federal government shuts down. There are real consequences. And the House did not want this shutdown. And we believe their my way or the highway mentality cannot be sustained.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Don't you get tired of the talking points? Got something for you, stand by.

President Obama took a fresh stab at the House Speaker John Boehner today in an interview with the Associated Press. The president blamed Boehner for not ending the shutdown saying there are enough votes in the House, Republicans and Democrats, to end the shutdown, if the speaker would allow a vote.

Do you get upset sometimes? This is why I said stand by. And when I said stand by, I got something for you. Do you get sometimes upset when you are watching the news and you hear politicians talk in circles to reporters and anchors? Ever wonder why I get, shall we say a little indignant, OK, a lot indignant sometimes on TV? Here is why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think if we keep saying we want to defund it, we fought for that but now we are willing to compromise, I think, well I know we don't want to be here, but we are going to win this, I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Republican Senate leaders scheming there on open mics not about how to compromise to help the American people, but how to shape the message to win this bicker fest.

Fasten your seatbelts. It's time now for no talking points.

All right, so you know how they say everything comes out in the rinse, right? All you have to do is just wait, give it time. Here is the rinse. The whole reason we started this no talking point segment, how it got its name, it is because during the run up to the 2012 presidential election, I got fed up with politicians coming on CNN and spotted talking points and then not being challenged by it. In fact, the inspiration was none other than Senator Rand Paul.

Let me refresh your memories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: -- re-bill. So, while many in the --

LEMON: Hang on, hang on, one second. Again --

PAUL: You are in the middle of my answer.

LEMON: I know. But I'm asking you to answer the question. With all due respect, I'm asking you, do you feel the public sentiment in Washington?

PAUL: This isn't a talking point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That went on for a bit. And after that broadcast, I said you know, what, I'm sick of this. We are going to start a session called no talking points. And everyone in the NEWSROOM agreed and said go for it. It's frustrating, and it makes you angry. And according to the our Dr. Wendy Walsh who appears on this program a lot, that sleight of hand and that double speak are part of the reasons so many Americans are so angry. The haves, not looking out for the have nots.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR SPECIALIST: There is a lot of tension in America right now. I think Americans are hurting at the macro level. You know, more and more concentration of wealth is in the tiny or portion of America. The average annual wage of people has not moved up. So, that looked to me like a clash of the haves and the have nots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: She's talking ability the motorcycle incident. This is what we saw in New York, right? An SUV driver who got into it with the gang of motorcyclist. Did the bikers not see another man or just saw someone keeping them down? We see the anger in the streets. And in the capitol from one side of the shutdown fight, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This morning, I get "the Wall Street Journal" out and it says we don't care how long this lasts because we are winning. This isn't some damn game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He's right. It is not some damn game, but his colleague, Senator Paul, must think it is a game, if he thinks he's winning.

Senator Paul, you are not winning. The Democrats aren't winning, either. None of you, not one of you is winning and we are all losing. I can't help but wonder, are all the politicians too angry to listen to the Senate chaplain who offered some wise advice in a prayer this week. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BARRY BLACK, SENATE CHAPLAIN: Deliver us from the hypocrisy of attempting to sound reasonable while being unreasonable. Remove the burdens of those who are the collateral damage of this government shutdown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And I will add to that, heaven help us, amen. That's tonight's no talking points.

All right, we are going to talk more about the back and forth bickering, the complaining and open mic moments in Washington, not only frustrating to Americans, it could put some elected officials out of office, probably a good thing.

So, if you are politician in the middle of a shutdown mess, how do you repair your image? We are talking to a PR pro next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Let's get back to our no holds barred discussion here where we just sort of tell the truth here. Before the break, I told you who I think is winning. No one is winning here. But the reality is that politics always have winners and losers. So, here's -- I'm want someone to start going to bring in Howard Bragman. He is a public relations aficionado and a spin doctor without equal here.

Are you OK with me calling you a spin doctor, Howard.

HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLIC RELATION EXPERT: My mother always wanted me to be a doctor, Don. I'm very happy with that.

LEMON: You are welcome Mrs. Bragman and to you as well.

So listen, you are here in Los Angeles. I'm sure you heard my segment. Howard, Washington seems obsessed with who is winning the shutdown. I mean, give me a score card if you can and pick one side of the other. Democrats, Republicans, who is winning here, anyone?

BRAGMAN: Well, you know, in addition to traditional PR, I do a lot of online stuff and my role as vice chairman of reputation.com. And one of the things I do is I have been following social media. And we have been doing a lot of analysis on this.

Most of the time, the country is evenly split, Don. It is about, you know, 40 percent like the Democrats, 40 percent like the Republicans, 10 percent hate both, 10 percent don't care, right? This time, the Republicans are getting beaten up pretty badly. The Republicans are down to about 35 percent positive in social media, 65 percent negative, which is a very -- it's a landslide in social media.

And a couple things are happening. Number one, it's trending worse every day for the Republicans.

LEMON: Right.

BRAGMAN: These things are -- the numbers are getting bigger. Earlier in the week, it was in the 50s. By the end of the week, it was about 65 percent. So, that tells you how it's trending. That's why the Republicans have been moving the goalpost on their side -- yes?

LEMON: Go ahead, finish. Then I have a question.

BRAGMAN: Obamacare is kind of at the center of this, right? The Republicans are saying we are not going to fund it because we don't like Obamacare. Well ironically, well, the government has been shutdown, Obamacare has been launched. And Obamacare is interestingly starting to trend more and more positive where once it was truly negative.

Now, it's in the positive range and moving upward. And it's what I call the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If we don't like those people and they don't like Obamacare, we must like Obamacare. And they are actually hurting themselves. And at the same time, the computers are crashing because so many people are trying to get access to the new insurance markets.

LEMON: Exactly. Thank you, Howard for telling the truth.

And I think many people are so close to it. They are so partisan that they can't see the forest through the trees, right? And the problem is, when you dig yourself in, right, when you dig in your heels sometimes, sometimes you dig yourself in and if something comes along, you are going to drown yourself, correct?

BRAGMAN: Well, many Republicans are saying we have to get something out of this. They know they are playing this losing hand. But they are saying we have to get something out of this.

LEMON: Same thing.

BRAGMAN: And I'm not sure -- yes, absolutely. And I'm not sure what they are going to get out of this. And I think the president war right today. John Boehner has to start taking a macro step toward the people -- radical elements of this party. You know, it's almost a form of anarchy. We have a law passed by Congress. We have a law the Supreme Court said was legal. It's been implemented. And I'm sorry they don't like it. There's been a lot of laws in the past the Democrats didn't like. But that's what this country is about. You pass laws. And if they are deemed legal, you respect them and you move forward.

LEMON: Right. You work to improve them -- you work to improve them if there are ways to be improved. You don't hold the American people hostage because you are not getting your way. And I said this on this program, I have said it on radio, I am not a Democrat nor a Republican, and when I became a journalist, I disavowed any political affiliation. This is not about politics for me so don't write me or say that Don Lemon, some big liberal on CNN, no.

The members of the tea party are holding the American people hostage and holding the Republican party hostage as well. The rational thinking people in the Republican party, Howard.

BRAGMAN: There's no question about it. And I'm not sure how long a memory the American people will have. But I can tell you, in the holding about do you like Democratic Congress people versus Republican Congress people, I think it was 43 to 34, nine points which was an incredibly high gap for the Democrats. And the Republicans are putting themselves at risk, at great risk at this particular time. And they are overplaying their hand about the hatred for Obamacare because there are a lot of people with preexisting conditions.

I think what you said is absolutely true. It's not perfect. Anybody that thinks any law is perfect when it's passed is fooling themselves. Let's work to make it better. Let's work to understand it.

Yes, sir.

LEMON: I have to run, my friend. Thank you, we appreciate it. BRAGMAN: Always good to see you, Don, thanks.

LEMON: All right.

Hey, listen. A lot of Americans aren't happy with what's going on in Congress and would love the opportunity to tell lawmakers what they think. And out Ted Rowlands takes us to Kansas city, Missouri where residents there have a message for Washington. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Five days into a government shutdown, most people we talk to in Kansas city and around the country say they are disgusted with lawmakers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is ridiculous. Really, it's ridiculous.

ROWLANDS: What message would you send to lawmakers on both sides?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well on both sides, I would say come on guys, gals, get together. Let's talk and get it done, for the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lawmakers should go back to work and deny pay, they should refuse pay themselves for as long as they are denying pay for the federal government workers.

ROWLANDS: While a few people we have talked to don't care -- doesn't bother you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

ROWLANDS: Doesn't affect you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not really.

ROWLANDS: Others support their party while blaming the other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can't get over the fact that president Obama beat them twice, OK? That's all there is to it. They are sore losers.

ROWLANDS: Their message to Republicans on the hill what would you say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep on fighting Obamacare, I would say.

ROWLANDS: In this manner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.

ROWLANDS: But the message most would like to send applies to both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's end it now so they can get back to work.

ROWLANDS: And most people would talk to say they are disgusted with lawmakers and disgusted in the sense they allowed this to happen in the first place. And I think it's safe to say they will be even more angry the longer this continues.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Kansas City, Missouri.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All Ted.

Well, just ahead the latest on the deadly chase through the nation's capitol this week. The sister of the woman shot and killed after this wild ride talked exclusively to CNN.

But first, getting ready for Karen. The Gulf course keeping watch on tropical storm Karen, a live report is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We have some breaking news for you.

CNN has confirmed U.S. Navy SEALS may have killed a major terrorist Al Shabaab's leader in Somalia.

I want to get straight now to CNN's Barbara Starr with the breaking news.

Barbara, what do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, what sources are telling us is that U.S. special operation forces were part of a mission to go after a suspects Al Shabaab leader in a town deep in Southern Somalia. This occurred over the last 24 hours. They are offering very few details because at this point, what is unclear is whether or not they were able to get to their target, potentially either capture, most likely kill the target before the special operations forces withdrew from the village.

It's to be very clear to our viewers, it is unclear at this point what the outcome of the mission was. Said to be a target with the Al- Shabaab that al-Qaeda linked group that is said to be responsible that terrible, deadly attack on the shopping mall in Kenya just several days ago.

The coastline of Somalia is really key to all of this. U.S. commandos operate regularly in several locations throughout the horn of Africa, both to the north of Somalia and to the south. They have been in and out of Somalia on covert secret missions over the years, many times going after al-Qaeda's suspects in Somalia, killing and capturing them.

With that coastline, it is very likely it was Navy SEALS, not being openly talked about just yet because for the Navy SEALS, it is so easy for them to get in and out of these very rural areas, come in by helicopter, come in by boat, conduct the raids and move out very quickly. So, it looks like another case where they went into very dangerous territory in Somalia to go after a particular target, Don? LEMON: Can you elaborate more on that when you said going into a very dangerous territory? How high of a risk would this mission, this Navy SEALS mission have been?

STARR: Well look, I mean, in this part of Somalia, there are militant actions, fundamentalists, al-Shabaab, others that certainly don't take kindly to seeing American helicopters or foreign helicopters that any sort come after them.

The Kenyans, for example, have been operating in Somalia for some time and constantly come under attack and fire at various points. Somalia is a very rough neighborhood, a very rough territory. You have a lot of fighters with AK-47s, with explosives, with some potential, some potential for surface to air missile launches, grenade launchers, that kind of thing. So, Navy SEALS, Army Special Forces have been into Somalia. They - in recent years. They come in very heavily armed. They come in usually in helicopter gunships or small boats, heavily armed. Their fire power would be very significant. But once they get on the ground, once they get into the small towns or villages, they have to move very fast. Because they've got to get to their target, do what they have come to do and get out of there. Because there are so many people that would oppose this that could then begin to assemble and start firing at them. They have a lot of concerns about civilian casualties. But really, once they get on the ground, what they want to avoid is getting into some situation where they have got a lot of people coming after them with those AK-47 style weapons. So, their big move when they go into these situations is to get in and get out. Don?

LEMON: All right, Barbara, we are just getting this information. Barbara, can you sit tight for a little bit? I may come back to you. I want to get to our national security analyst Peter Bergen. Peter's on the phone. But I want to repeat this for our viewers as breaking news this hour, CNN has confirmed that U.S. Navy SEALS may have killed a major terror chief al-Shabaab's leader in Somalia, that is the group as Barbara Starr has said from the Pentagon there that claimed it carried out the deadly terror attack on Kenya's Westgate Mall just last month. Peter Bergen, tell us what you know about this.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you know, al Shabaab, which is the group that's responsible for the attack on the Kenya mall put itself in United States targets for two reasons. One, in 2012, it's formally allied itself with al Qaeda, which was, in fact, not a very smart move because it's a lot easier for the president to order the kind of operation that we are now confirming if this is an actual al Qaeda affiliate rather than just some other jihadi group.

Secondarily, of course, there were Americans injured in the attack on the Kenyan mall. And certainly, it was the intent of the group to attack the mall because it was a place where Westerners congregated. So, it is not entirely surprising that very quickly, U.S. Navy SEALS would have done this operation. They are very comfortable operating in Somalia, they've done similar operations against leaders of al Qaeda in Somalia. They have caused rescued Captain Richard Phillips when he was taken hostage by Somali pirates in 2009. And it's an environment, in which they operate very comfortably, which - that Barbara pointed out, of course, the risks are always in these operations.

LEMON: So, what is this - what does this mean for the war, so to speak on terrorism in the world?

BERGEN: Well, I mean, I think al-Shabaab, you know, is too, you can interpret the attack on the mall as really a desperate bid for relevance. This is a group that controlled much of southern Somalia two years ago and it's been really dealt a number of military defeats by the Kenyan army and other African Army units as well as with the help of the United States. And, you know, terrorism is a lot easier to do than running an effective insurgency as they were a couple of years ago. So, this may be sort of a little bit of a nail in the coffin for the group if indeed, it turns out that their leader has been killed as appears it might be the case right now.

LEMON: What, in comparison to other terror groups, al-Shabaab, al Qaeda and so on, how does al-Shabaab rank here?

BERGEN: Well, I mean they changed their ranking pretty significantly by attacking, you know, a target in Kenya, which had numerous Westerners were killed, Americans were injured. You know, they had never really - they never successfully attacked against a Western target as it were before. They certainly tried to attack in Denmark, they tried to kill a cartoonist who painted - a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammad that was deemed offensive. That attack didn't work.

So, I mean the Kenyan attack put them on the whole different level. And as I say, it would be very easy for the president to order this operation as - just as a legal matter because once you announce you are part of al Qaeda and you also attack or try to attack American targets, you put yourself in a very different category than you have previously.

LEMON: Peter, stand by. Barbara Starr, are you still there? OK. So, Barbara, again, as I just want to reiterate for the people who may just be tuning in. We'll get Barbara back. And breaking news this hour on CNN, as you're watching these pictures, these are really powerful pictures that are playing out. But CNN has confirmed that U.S. Navy SEALS may have killed a major terror chief, al-Shabaab's leader in Somalia. We are following this breaking news story right now with our Pentagon correspondent and also with our Peter Bergen, who is our national security analyst. And I want to tell you that this group is the same group that claimed responsibility for carrying out that deadly terror attack on Kenya's Westgate Mall last month.

So, Peter, let's continue on in this vein until we get our Barbara Starr back. Barbara is getting more information now. So then, what happens if they have killed this leader, then what is next? Obviously, it hampers the progress of this group, one of their top lieutenants is no longer there. What does it mean for al-Shabaab?

BERGEN: You know, t's hard to - you know, it's hard to say. You know, killing Osama bin Laden didn't end al Qaeda but if you kill a lot of bin Laden's lieutenants, as has happened in C.I.A. drone strikes in Pakistan, you've got a case where the bench is -- it's hard to replace people who are in their 30s or 40s or have a lot of experience and certainly with al Qaeda central, a policy of decapitating the leadership, I think, is being pretty devastating to the actual al Qaeda central group in Pakistan.

And similarly with al-Shabaab, if you take out not just a leader, but multiple leaders, and, in fact, one of the leaders of the group was an American citizen who was in an internal dispute, was killed probably by Shabab itself in September. So, you are seeing that the group is losing ground militarily, it's having some (inaudible) sign kind of quarrels that have led to the death of one of its leaders and now you have this special operation, which seems to have been at least somewhat effective. We don't know exactly what happened yet. But it seems that one of the leaders may have been killed.

LEMON: All right. Peter Bergen, stand by. Again, we are going to continue to follow this breaking news. That U.S. Forces went after al-Shabaab's leader, possibly linked to the Kenya attack. We're getting more details now. Pentagon correspondent's working on, our national security analyst Peter Bergen is working on it as well. As well, as the worldwide resources of CNN. We'll be back right after this break with the breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The breaking news here on CNN is that U.S. Special Forces involved in a mission to take out a top al-Shabaab leader, a terror group leader, Barbara Starr with a major update on this story. Barbara, what do you have?

STARR: Just in to us now, Don, a U.S. official is confirming, indeed, as you said before. It was a team of U.S. Navy SEALS that went into this town in southern Somalia. But, and this is a big situation here. The Navy SEALS had to withdraw from the town before they could confirm that they had killed the target they were going after. The person they were trying to get, the al-Shabaab leader. And we are told by a senior U.S. official the Navy SEALS had to withdraw because they came into what he calls a very hostile environment. They came under fire in this town.

And he says the Navy SEALS made what he calls a prudent decision to withdraw from the town rather than engage in further combat and risk causing some number of civilian casualties. That's what they are telling us right now. They do not believe at this point any U.S. Navy SEALS were either killed. There's no word on that, there is no indication of that or any of them suffered any wounds in this gunfight.

We don't know about Somalis on the ground, wounded or killed. We don't know if the target they were going after was killed because this gunfight apparently erupted. Navy SEALS go in pretty heavily armed. They don't usually get overwhelmed to the point of needing to withdraw in a gunfight unless they are in an environment with a large number of civilians and they don't want to get involved in some potential incident of causing those civilian casualties. So, I think we are going to learn much more in the coming days about what exactly the Navy SEALS encountered in southern Somalia. Very rough piece of territory down there, but they could not fully complete their mission. They couldn't find if they killed the man they were going after because of this gunfight, this hostile environment situation. Don?

LEMON: And Barbara, you know, this brings for me and just exactly what we deal with here in the United States. Many - there are people who are overseas fighting for our freedom all the time, fighting against terrorism all the time and we don't really know about what's going on. And this happens without our knowledge until something like this occurs where a leader may have been taken out, they are involved in some fight and they have to retreat. We don't really know about it.

STARR: That is so right, Don. I think the members of Special Operations units would tell you if they could that they are involved every day around the world. Much of what they do, actually, hopefully, most days is working with other militaries around the world, working in more peaceful situations, but very often, as you just said, they are involved in antiterrorism, counterterrorism missions, basically going after bad guys and doing it in the shadows so often. Not getting any public acknowledgement for what they do and, you know, I think it's really important, as you just said, to remember these people and their families, their spouses, their children. Often really making that sacrifice of not even being able to talk publicly about what their loved ones are doing in such dangerous parts of the world. Don?

LEMON: Barbara, can you talk to us as well about another mission in Africa?

STARR: You're talking about what's been going on in Libya today, I take it?

LEMON: Absolutely, yes.

STARR: OK. Just making sure because there's been a lot going on throughout the day.

LEMON: There are a lot of missions, right?

STARR: Yeah. Well, let's step through this one very carefully as well. Our justice reporter, Evan Perez has confirmed that an al Qaeda leader named Anas al Libi has been captured in Libya in North Africa. This, as Evan has been reporting. This man is a member of al Qaeda. He had gone to Libya some time ago and was suspected of really setting up the al Qaeda operation in Libya. He is on the most wanted list. The U.S. Justice Department offering a reward of up to $5 million for him. What we have been able to confirm in the last few minutes from a senior U.S. official is that, again, U.S. Special Forces according to this senior official and he knows this is being reported, U.S. Special Forces were involved in the capture of this man inside Libya.

This man al Libi, not clear at the moment where - what his exact location is. Very few details available about exactly how this operation went down. But, I think, it's a real indication of what you and I are talking about here tonight. Hundreds of miles away at two different ends of the African continent, U.S. Special Forces in action going against terrorism targets that the U.S. has wanted to get very badly. Don?

LEMON: Barbara, speak to me about, and I asked Peter Bergen this question, what does this mean now? We talked about - you were just talking about al Qaeda here. Can we go back to al-Shabaab and this latest bit of breaking news that we have? What does this mean for al- Shabaab?

STARR: Well, you know, I think we have all seen over the last decade plus years that, you know, they go after these various targets and they feel they really have the evidence to go after them, that they are involved in terrorist activities. But does that really end the terrorist cell, the terrorist organization? 12 years later, 15 years later, we see al Qaeda morphing into various organizations around the world. And in fact, al-Shabaab, the al-Shabaab group in Somalia is an al Qaeda linked group that has pledged to a certain amount of loyalty to al Qaeda. Many groups in Libya, groups in Syria.

What you are dealing with around the world these days since 9/11 is, you know, al Qaeda 2.0 is what a lot of people call it. Back in 2001, you had Osama bin Laden, you had the group of men around him. They have largely been dealt with. But you see the eruption of these al Qaeda organizations throughout the Middle East, throughout Africa, mainly in areas where governance is so poor, where people are not looked after by their governments, and there's a lot of poverty and there's a lot of ability for them to recruit constantly a new population of young men to their movements.

LEMON: Right.

STARR: Getting this al-Shabaab guy, it will do something for a while. But I don't think anybody is predicting it's the end of al-Shabaab or al Qaeda up in Libya or the al Qaeda groups in Syria. Don.

LEMON: As you mentioned, Special Operations are working around the world every single day and their missions being carried out. But the reason that these two are breaking news, they are significant, because they are such high profile, people that they are going after and organizations. So, talk to me about what else could be going on. Why these two are so significant, Barbara, and then I want to get to Peter Bergen after.

STARR: Well, you know, I think one of the things that is so significant for everyone to think about is, you know, it doesn't take a lot of imagination, if you will, to figure out the risks that U.S. Forces are at when they go on these missions. It's just a simple fact. They have to gather intelligence for weeks ahead of time to know what they are going into. They have to know where their targets are. They have to know, are they going to go in by helicopter gunship, or they are going in by aircraft, what kind of opposition they are going to face on the ground, who may be shooting at them as they land. All of these things. So, planning these missions, very secretive, very covert. We never hear about them ahead of time as they are planning them. But everybody should probably be very aware that this goes on all the time. And you can only imagine, I suppose, what missions might be being planned now. We know, we all know that for the last year, the U.S. has been wanting very much to go after the suspects that were responsible for the attack on the Benghazi diplomatic compound. Last September 11th, we've seen no mission to do that. You know, but it's very clear the president said he wants justice delivered to those people, so that is still out there. Going after Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leader of al Qaeda in Pakistan who's holed up there. That is still out there. So, there's a lot still going on. I think there's no question about that. But, does any of it really change when you have things like the Boston bombing attack when two men decided to look up, apparently on the Internet how to make a bomb out of a pressure cooker. You have a new form of terrorism that all the military admissions around the world and the shadows aren't really going to get to when people can learn these types of things right off the Internet. Don?

LEMON: Very well said. Two Americans, by the way, Barbara. These aren't people who are overseas. Barbara Starr, stand by. More on our breaking news there. And Special Forces involved in two operations today, one in Libya, one in Somalia going after very high profile terrorists. Our security analyst, Peter Bergen weighs in on the other side of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news here on CNN. Please pay attention. A major development in the fight against terrorism. Here CNN has confirmed that U.S. Special Forces went on a mission in Somalia, went after al- Shabaab's leader, possibly linked to that Kenya mall attack just a few weeks ago. That is a group that claimed that they carried out the deadly attack in Kenya's Westgate Mall last month. Also, the other breaking news story here, the al Qaeda operative responsible for the 1998 bombing on U.S. embassies may have been captured. Abu Anas al Libi has topped most - the most wanted list for years. He joined al Qaeda soon after its founding and is considered a senior member of al Qaeda.

I want to get to CNN's Pentagon correspondent. Barbara Starr, I want to talk about both of these big stories. Let's talk first about the latest one in now. The mission in Somalia, Barbara.

STARR: Well, Don, what we know is that the Navy SEALS went into this small town in southern Somalia to try and capture a leader in the al- Shabaab network. This is the al Qaeda linked group in Somalia said to be responsible for so many attacks, including the attack on the shopping mall in Kenya that we all watched unfold just several days ago.

Not clear, by the way, that this man they were going after was directly linked to the shopping mall attack, but said to be a major figure in the al-Shabaab network. What we know is that some type of firefight, major fight erupted on the ground because the Navy SEALS had to leave the town in what they are calling, we are told, was a prudent move rather than continue to engage in this operation. There was some sort of risk, we are told, of killing some significant number of civilians, which they didn't want to do, of course.

So, where it stands right now is the SEALS don't know whether they were able to kill the man they were going after. They certainly didn't capture him. They don't know if he was killed because this firefight emerged and the SEALS decided to withdraw from the town. That is the language that is being used by the sources we're talking to, that the SEALS made the decision to withdraw. I think more information is certain to begin to arrive in the coming hours. We don't know, for example, to what extent the SEALS were moving through the village. Did they have to leave any of their equipment behind? Were they able to get back to either helicopters or small boats that they came in on?

There's absolutely -we want to be clear, there is no indication at this point of any SEALS wounded or killed in the incident. All indications are that they all got out of there. But we've talked about this a little bit earlier when they go in on this very dangerous missions. Their biggest issue really is getting in as fast as they can and getting out as fast as they can. They are at significant risk the whole time they are on the ground.

So, when they practice for these missions, just as we saw on the raid to capture Osama bin Laden, you want to spend as little time on the ground as possible. The most important thing after you get in is to get out. Don?

LEMON: All right, Barbara. Sit tight for a second. I want to go now to our international correspondent Nima Elbagir, she's in Nairobi. And you have extensive knowledge of Somalia. What do you know about the operations here? What can you tell us, Nima?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Barawe is (inaudible) as the remaining stronghold of al-Shabaab. It's in south central Somalia. And it's interesting, what (inaudible) is saying that the SEALs made a conscious decision to retreat rather than engage in a way that would injure more civilians. Bbecause Barawe is very much an al-Shabaab's stronghold. This is their task. It's a very secured area. And this is where most of the foreign fighters have been living for the last few years. And it's also where many of the major leadership of al-Shabaab has been living as they have been increasingly squeezed from both sides by both the Kenyan defense forces coming in from the south and the African Union forces coming in from down to Mogadishu.

So, this is an area that is heavily guarded, heavily, heavily armed. And it's understandable that given, as soon as the operation was seen to be compromised in some way, that the SEAL it was much easier to withdraw back over to sea, I'd imagine. Because Barawe is a port town, rather than continue to engage on what is very much al-Shabaab's territory. Al-Shabaab was already, and one of the things about al- Shabaab, is that of all of the al Qaeda franchises, they are the most wired, they are the most high profile on social media. (inaudible) we are seeing them taking to social media to talk about this. They've been posting pictures on an affiliate Website that shows what they say is the equipment that the SEALS were forced to leave behind when as al-Shabaab put it, they say they caused the SEALs to retreat.

So, we are seeing in these pictures, and we haven't managed to get them yet, but hope you will get them for you and us soon. We are seeing U.S. navigation, GPS devices. We're also seeing hand grenades that al-Shabaab are claiming were used as cover during the attack. And the kind of caliber bullets that are used in M-16, which is the U.S. military assault rifle that is often carried in this kind of operations. So, al-Shabaab, as you can imagine, are claiming this as a victory. But for the SEALs to even carry out this kind of an operation, in an area that al-Shabaab would perceive to be such a safe ground for them, al-Shabaab has to be feeling that tonight. Don?

LEMON: All right. You must stand by. Don't go away, everyone.