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Chris Brown in Jail; Lou Reed Dies; Britain Braces for Worst Storm in Years; U.S. Spying on German Chancellor for Years; Spying Among Friends; Obamacare Web Site Misfire; Brooklyn Mass Murder; High Tech Emergency Medical Training; No Hurricane Warning for Sandy; Rare Call Ends World Series Game

Aired October 27, 2013 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. 6:00 here in the east. Welcome to the NEWSROOM. I'm Don Lemon.

The White House in damage control mode after even more new allegations over the NSA's spying on our closest allies and a grizzly and horrific mass killing. A mother and her four children murdered. Those stories and more just ahead.

But first, this. We are talking about Chris Brown's latest run-in with the law and about the passing of a rock icon.

"Walk in the Wild Side" was probably Lou Reed's biggest hit. But his legacy is far bigger than that. The singer and songwriter has died at the age of 71 and we're talking more about his body of work and his far-reaching influence.

"Rolling Stone" magazine's Anthony DeCurtis will join us in just a moment on this. But we want to start with Chris Brown's arrest after a fight outside a Washington hotel.

CNN's Alan Duke joins us now.

And, Alan, what can you tell us about this?

ALAN DUKE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris Brown is in jail right now. He has this afternoon been transferred to a central cell block in Washington, D.C. for processing. This indicates he's not getting out today or tonight. That he'll go before a magistrate most likely in the morning for a bail setting because it happened on an early Sunday morning.

I'm under the understanding that his lawyer from Los Angeles is likely to show up in the District of Columbia tomorrow to help him get out of jail. But the real tough thing is, this fight that he was in early this morning could put him in jail here in Los Angeles because of his probation violation in relation to that beating conviction of Rihanna four years ago.

He already has been found in violation of his probation as recently as last month and the judge, when he goes before the judge next month for a scheduled hearing, likely will be very upset to hear that Chris Brown has been arrested again. LEMON: So -- and listen, he didn't have any room for mistakes, is what you're saying, because he can go back to jail whether he is convicted or not, right? Just the idea that he was involved in an altercation, the judge could rule on that and send him to jail?

DUKE: The level of evidence that it takes to have a probation violation is not the same as a conviction on an assault charge. So we saw this with Lindsay Lohan. When she was arrested, that sent her into trouble. It's just the arrest. That's a violation of your probation.

Chris Brown cannot afford that, considering everything that's happened in the last year with his legal troubles.

LEMON: Yes. Just stay out of trouble.

Anyways, let's move on. Let's talk about Lou Reed. A huge loss for rock music. Do we know any details about his death?

DUKE: They still haven't told us the official cause of his death. We know several months ago, he had a liver transplant. You know, drug use over decades, which he's acknowledged in interviews. It can really kill a liver. And he had a transplant. We don't know if it's directly related to that or not. But just a few months ago, he had a liver transplant. He was seen out walking on the streets in New York since then.

But news that he died just a few hours ago, this weekend, from his management, did not include any information about the cause of death. But certainly a shock to anyone who's ever been a fan. Not just of him but for all of those musicians who he had influenced and the culture that has been impacted.

LEMON: Yes. We're going to talk more about that, Alan Duke. We appreciate you.

Let's talk about the glam rockers, the alternative rockers, the punk rockers. They all owe a huge debt to Lou Reed and the hugely influential band he founded, the Velvet Underground. Remember them? All you folks who remember the '80s and the '70s. They were rock, art and gritty New York street life met. Years after they broke up, songs like "Sweet Jane" and "That Wonderful Riff" live on.

Now that's the Lou Reed I know.

Anthony DeCurtis is a contributing editor at "Rolling Stone" magazine, you knew his work. People don't realize that just sort of reading back through, I remember the Velvet Underground and, you know, we'd listen to that. They influenced the Violent Femmes and those sorts of bands from the '80s. That '80s sound -- really we can attribute a lot of that to Lou Reed.

ANTHONY DECURTIS, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STORE MAGAZINE: Well, '80s and beyond. You know, I mean, I think that Lou Reed's impact, even though he's not nearly as well known as these figures, Lou Reed can rank with Bob Dylan and Lennon and McCartney. LEMON: Right.

DECURTIS: In terms of his impact on popular music. There's no question that --

LEMON: But he didn't want to be a star.

DECURTIS: Well, whether he wanted to be or not, I mean, Lou Reed understood what he was doing. You know what I mean? I think he saw himself as a literary figure as much as a musician. And I think he took that aspect of his work very seriously.

LEMON: Yes.

DECURTIS: You know, those people don't become, you know, massive big sellers.

LEMON: You know, when many bands were singing about peace and love, peace and love, you know, you hear one of the Beatles singing that all the time. He was writing about sexual deviancy, he's writing about drugs.

DECURTIS: Yes.

LEMON: And --

DECURTIS: Well, you know, he studied at Syracuse University with Delmore Schwartz. A very famous American poet. And there was a sense, I think, in Lou Reed's work and in his ideas. Like he often said, if I were writing poems or I were writing novels or I were writing plays, no one would bat an eye at the material I'm dealing with. But I'm trying to put these themes into rock music.

LEMON: Yes.

DECURTIS: And that was a radical move at that time.

LEMON: Did he get criticism for it?

DECURTIS: Oh, my goodness.

LEMON: Yes.

DECURTIS: Absolutely.

LEMON: So he was ahead of his time. And anyone who's ahead of their time usually gets a lot of criticism.

DECURTIS: Well, there was a great line by the producer and artist Brian Eno, someone once said to him, well, you know, the first Velvet Underground record I only sold 30,000 copies. And Brian Eno said well, every one of those 30,000 people formed a band.

LEMON: Right.

(LAUGHTER) DECURTIS: You know, and that -- you know, that was the level of impact.

LEMON: Yes. When -- but I always think about, and for some reason, I don't know, it was weird. I was on an '80s jag this weekend, right? We were driving back from Massachusetts and we're listening to all the '80s music. Simple Minds and Depeche Mode and all.

DECURTIS: Yes.

LEMON: You could hear Lou Reed in all of that.

DECURTIS: Oh, my goodness. Yes, Depeche Mode. Absolutely. And Simple Minds for that reason.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The Human League. Yes.

DECURTIS: REM and U2. And, you know -- and current bands like The National and Arcade Fire. You know, all owe just an enormous debt. I mean, this man, with the Velvet Underground, essentially invented the idea of underground rock. David Bowie, Iggy Pop, artists that owed an enormous debt to Lou Reed.

LEMON: Is there -- is there someone who has the chops of a Lou Reed in today's music? Someone who will have a legacy similar to Lou Reed?

DECURTIS: I think that's hard to say. You know, I mean, at this stage of the game, you know, certainly he's influenced so many major song writers that his impact through them will continue to be felt. But as far as what will happen down the line, we'll have to wait and see.

LEMON: Yes. How do you -- how do you -- I know it's maybe a morbid question, but how do you start to write an obituary about Lou Reed.

DECURTIS: I think you make the point to people that even though they may not be familiar with him, he's very important. You know, I think that it's a simple idea. You know, nobody has to explain how important Bob Dylan is.

LEMON: Yes.

DECURTIS: And no one has to explain how important the Beatles are. But you do have to explain how important Lou Reed is. And, you know, musicians know it and a core group of fans know it. But even people who like a band like U2 who, you know, recorded Lou Reed's songs.

LEMON: Right.

DECURTIS: Don't necessarily know the impact he had on them.

LEMON: So you'll be interested in this. I've just been told by my producers that Maureen Tucker from the former -- drummer of Velvet Underground and band made of Lou Reed is going to join us next hour live here on CNN to talk about Reed's legacy best.

DECURTIS: I bet she will be great.

LEMON: Just going to be amazing.

DECURTIS: Yes.

LEMON: Thank you.

DECURTIS: Well, thank you so much.

LEMON: Appreciate it. Yes.

DECURTIS: Thank you for asking me. It's an honor.

LEMON: Yes.

Can't wait for that coming up next hour. And there's more fallout from the NSA spying controversy to tell you about. Looks like the surveillance of Germany's Angela Merkel may be much broader than previously believed. Maybe going back more than a decade.

And hurricane force winds are expected to hit the United Kingdom. Just may be the worst storm in decades. We're going to go live to the English coast, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: You know, it is going to be a long night in southern Britain with the region getting hammered by what could be its worst storm in decades. Right now heavy rain and hurricane force winds are barreling towards southern England, and that's where we find our Erin McLaughlin.

Erin, what are the conditions like in (INAUDIBLE).

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. Well, the storm has arrived here at (INAUDIBLE). That's according to a representative at the Met office I talked to a short while ago. The rain has been pretty heavy. The winds pretty strong around 45 miles per hour. The conditions are expected to get worse as the night progresses.

People here seem to be heeding the government advice, staying off the roads, staying indoors. Met officials I spoke to say this kind of weather has been typical of what we expect to see in the winter. But the system is coming in the autumn when trees are -- and leaves and the ground is saturated. So there's a concern about uprooted trees and other external damage.

Now some have compared this storm to the great storm of 1987 which was poorly forecasted and left dozens dead and billions of damaged across the United Kingdom and France but so far forecasters I talked to think these winds won't be as strong as '87 and forecasters, you know, spotted this well in advance thanks to modern technology. So hopefully people are well aware and taking the necessary precautions. Now the prime minister, David Cameron, chaired a call on Sunday to discuss storm preparation. There is this fear that this storm could have a widespread impact, but he says he is confident that emergency service, transport providers, power companies, things like that, will be able to respond as necessary -- Don.

LEMON: Obviously if people don't heed the warnings, there is a danger, but you said they got -- they got the warnings out pretty early. Is this more of a spectacle than anything as far as -- or does it really pose any danger?

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, with this point, you know, time will tell. It is striking at night time into the morning. So for the most part, you know, people wouldn't be out on the roads anyway. They are expecting travel disruption. British Airways is operating on a reduced flight schedule tomorrow. Train services are expected to be impasse and drivers are expected or have been advised to plan their journeys.

They are concerned about that morning commute as people trying -- take to the road to get to work. They are advising that if a storm is still under way, that they stay off the road, stay inside until it passes -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank , Erin McLaughlin. We appreciate you.

President Obama knew the NSA was spying on German chancellor Angela Merkel years. That's the headline splashed across German newspapers. Of course, this report contradicts those that say President Obama had personally reached out to Merkel assuring her he knew nothing about the alleged cell phone tapping.

Thirty-five world leaders are now demanding answers about U.S. intelligence activities on their turf.

Erin McPike is in D.C. with the very latest -- Erin.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, a German newspaper reported this weekend that NSA chief General Keith Alexander told President Obama about tapping Chancellor Merkel's phone back in 2010. Now the NSA denies that piece of it. A spokesman told us today, quote, "General Alexander did not discuss with President Obama in 2010 an alleged foreign intelligence operation involving German Chancellor Merkel nor has he ever discussed alleged operations involving Chancellor Merkel."

News reports claiming otherwise are not true. But all that means is that Alexander and the president didn't talk about it. We don't know all the details yet or whether the president actually knew this was happening in the first place.

Of course Germany is demanding answers and sending a delegation to the United States in the coming weeks. The German Interior minister says that the allegations are true. It's possible the United States broke the law and they want someone to be held accountable. And he said German confidence in the United States, one of their closest allies, is shaken. Now politicians on both sides of the aisle are conceding that there may be tension with our allies but they are basically defending these practices. And that's including Republican Mike Rogers. He chairs the House Intelligence Committee and here's what he told CNN's Candy Crowley this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE ROGERS (R), CHAIR, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We need to be respectful. But we also need to be -- and we need to be accurate. It needs to be overseen and we need to make sure that we're not collecting information we don't need but we should collect information that is helpful to the United States interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: And of course, Hillary Clinton tried to explain the importance of these surveillance programs as well over the weekend -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Erin, thank you very much.

Back when Barack Obama was just a guy running for president, he charmed crowds in Germany with a speech calling for more cooperation. Well, that was so five years ago. Up next, our panel of a Republican and a Democrat will analyze the political price tag of the NSA spying scandal, although, L.Z. says he's an independent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I wish I could have recorded the break so you could hear my next two guests going off. Ana and L.Z. We're going to talk about major U.S. allies, like France and Germany. They are angry over the U.S. intelligence gathering methods that reportedly include tapping the German chancellor's phone.

Here they are now.

You guys are quiet now.

(LAUGHTER)

Anna, of course a CNN political contributor and Republican strategist -- Ana Navarro. L.Z. is a CNN commentator. And L.Z. Granderson -- OK, L.Z. is a CNN commentator.

So I'm glad you guys are calm. I know it's going to be fiery.

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes.

LEMON: I want to show you guys this video before we get started. This is July 2008. And that is -- there he is -- then candidate Barack Obama basking in the cheers of an estimated 200,000 Germans. Remember the point was that Obama in a post-George Bush world was going to respect our allies, be more -- a international president. Well, it's a good thing he's not in Berlin right now and Germans are furious. So they are even sending a high-level delegation to Washington to demand answers about the U.S. surveillance program.

L.Z., I'm going to start with you. Is the U.S. right now right to be spying on everyone else, including allies?

GRANDERSON: Well, we have to look at the entire timeline of this conversation. Assuming that it begins with this administration. It begins, yes, once again with the previous administration. And we have to remember, when we went into Iraq, we basically went in with like us, the U.K. and a handful of other countries, including Australia. The majority of the world was against us. And back then, we had a philosophy. A foreign policy, a philosophy post-9/11 that if you weren't for us, you were against us.

So I am not surprised at all that we're finding out that we spied on France and Germany because if you go back in time, those were the two countries that were very vocal about not invading Iraq at the time. And so we considered them against us. And yes, Rumsfeld, Cheney and the boys decided to bug them to make sure they weren't in cahoots with those who attacked us.

LEMON: Ana, you're being awfully quiet.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, look, this was also happening during President Obama's administration. Let's just face it, OK? They spy on us. We spy on them. This is real politic, world order 2013.

It used to happen with guys who drank martinis, shaken, not stirred. Now it happens with a bunch of nerds listening on because we have the technological capability. But this is a lot of feigned outrage. And this is a show that's being put on for nationalistic purposes in these countries.

Yes, we spy on our allies. We spy on our enemies more. But, you know.

LEMON: Yes.

NAVARRO: We believe in trust and verify. And by way, if they can spy on us, they probably do it, too. So let's just face it.

LEMON: Yes.

NAVARRO: It happens.

LEMON: And not probably do. Come on.

GRANDERSON: You know the truth is --

LEMON: Everybody is spying on everybody. I mean, are you really surprised by this?

GRANDERSON: Listen. LEMON: Quickly because I want to -- I want to put a sound bite. Go ahead.

GRANDERSON: That's the reason why -- that's the reason why we have BCC on our e-mail. Blind carbon copy. Because we're spying. And we want to make sure that people don't know that we're spying. So it's something everyone does.

LEMON: Yes. OK, so, Ana, I want you to listen to Congressman Peter King, New York Republican. He says there is nothing wrong with what the NSA is doing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I think the president should stop apologizing, stop being defensive. The reality is the NSA has saved thousands of lives. Not just the United States but also in France and Germany and throughout Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: He has a point.

NAVARRO: Yes, I --

LEMON: I mean -- go ahead.

NAVARRO: And I just love Peter King, Don, because he is a consummate New Yorker. And he doesn't even pretend to want to be politically correct. He just says things as they are. The reality unvarnished. And that's the truth. It happens. OK? You know, when you are a national leader of any country, you should assume somebody is spying on you. Either your own people or the outside.

LEMON: L.Z., if everyone agrees that this happens, then why all the noise about it?

GRANDERSON: Because you have to save face. I mean, people in Germany, people in France, they are justifiably so upset by this revelation. We would be upset by this revelation if it was broadcast that Germany was spying on President Obama and his phone calls. But with that being said, everyone does know this game.

And again, I can't express the importance of that timeline. This was initiated at point in which we had just been attacked during 9/11. We were getting ready to invade a country. Most of the world was against us. And so we view Germany and France as allies. But allies that we needed to watch carefully.

LEMON: I don't know. I mean, I don't know if people would be upset. I think people would -- I don't it's like -- tell us something we don't already know. Am I wrong here, Ana?

NAVARRO: No, listen. The reason people are upset is because it became public, because they came out as part of this, you know, NSA leaking, the Snowden affair. LEMON: Yes.

NAVARRO: And people have to have a reaction.

LEMON: Yes.

NAVARRO: In an ideal world you shouldn't be spied on by your allies. You expect it from your enemies but not from your allies. So I think that's the part where the saving face has to commend. But, you know, President Obama does need to tell Merkel, look, girl, yes, we spied on you, I'm sorry. It happens. And you know, you've got a freebie. What can we do for you now?

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Hey --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: I mean, we went into Pakistan and -- we went into Pakistan and they're supposed to be our allies and we snuck into the night and took out, you know, Osama bin Laden. So we should already know that -- we did it. Like on that level that we're doing it --

LEMON: That's different.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: No, that's not really different.

LEMON: Here's -- here's --

GRANDERSON: If Pakistan is supposed to be our -- is supposed to be one of our allies that we've given all this aid to and we sneak in in the night with the government not knowing that we're doing this type of extraction, this type of mission, that is very similar to spying on people who are supposed to be our allies, like Merkel.

LEMON: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. So know what they're doing at all times.

NAVARRO: That's right.

LEMON: In the meantime, Bill and Hillary Clinton are going all out for an old friend. So why are they so involved in the Virginia's governor's race? That's just ahead. We're going to talk with them as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: President Obama will travel to Boston on Wednesday to praise and promote the Affordable Care Act. The administration has long touted Massachusetts's health care law as a model for Obamacare. It comes the same day Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is to testify on Capitol Hill about the failures of the healthcare.gov Web site. Republican Senator John Barrasso has some tough words for the secretary this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: We've had more people since October 1st, George, get letters of denial, where they've been -- they're losing the insurance that they have, than have been people that have actually been able to sign up for the Obama health care law. And you talk about Secretary Sebelius and her comments, she's already, as of "Saturday Night Live" last night, the laughing stock of America. So she's lost considerable credibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Laughing stock of America. The opening sketch on "SNL" last night mocked the rough rollout of healthcare.gov by poking fun at the secretary's repeated pleas to remain calm despite the Web site's --

LEMON: Laughing stock of America. The opening sketch on "SNL" last night mocked the rough rollout of healthcare.gov by poking fun at the secretary's repeated pleas to remain calm despite the Web site's error plagued debut.

So let's talk about this now. I've got a lot of catching up on my DVR because I was out at a Halloween party last night. Didn't see it but it looks really funny.

Let's talk about the rollout. Ana Navarro, L.Z. Granderson, let's send them back.

Republicans are really going after Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and apparently "SNL" as well. And one key question, when did she know and when did the president know that the healthcare.gov Web site was in trouble.

Here is what she told our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you know how when he first knew that there was a problem?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: Well, I think it became clear fairly early on. The first couple of days that --

GUPTA: So not before that though? Not before October --

SEBELIUS: No, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So I want to say this to Ana and L.Z. and I'm sure, for -- do not tweet us people, saying, that there's nothing wrong with the Web site. The president has admitted it. Kathleen Sebelius has admitted it. The White House, the administration, everyone admitted that the Web site, not so much. So cut it out. All right?

Ana, should someone in authority, Sebelius, the president, or Sebelius, I should say, the president, someone have known this Web site wasn't ready for launch and said something or done something about it?

NAVARRO: I can't imagine how they didn't know that there were these huge problems with it. I can't imagine how it wasn't phased in. How it wasn't tested. I mean, I'm sure there were red flags.

Look, I'm not a technology expert but I do know that there are red flags when something goes wrong with a program of the magnitude of this. It didn't get told, the story didn't get told, Don, for a simple reason. Because in the political environment we're in, a delay would be seen as a defeat and would be perceived as a defeat and they were not ready to concede that there were any problems because they think it would be a bad thing for Obamacare.

And in fact, what has happened is that it's already been a bad thing for Obama. The first two weeks we were all busy talking about the shutdown and Republicans were ruining our brand. But now the heat is on them and the bottom line is you only get in life one chance to make a first impression. Whether when you're meeting your boyfriend's family for the first time, a job interview or Obamacare.

(LAUGHTER)

And the first impression of Obamacare is not a good one.

LEMON: Yes. What about this -- you know, there is a -- I guess sort after conspiracy theory.

GRANDERSON: I've got to say this, Don --

LEMON: That is -- wait, hang on, L.Z.

GRANDERSON: OK.

LEMON: That in red states, it's an issue in red states, it's not an issue in blue states, for the states that want it to work, it's working, and for states that don't want it to work it's not working in. Go ahead, L.Z.

GRANDERSON: Well, you know, first of all, it's important to point out that the Affordable Care Act is not a Web site. All right? It's a law. A law that went through Congress that was signed by the president that was challenged on its constitutionality and that was found to be constitutional by the Supreme Court.

It is not a Web site that has crashed. It is something much larger than that and elements of that law has already been implemented and a lot of people really, really like it. So that's important to say.

LEMON: Yes.

GRANDERSON: And with that being said, I'm not really big on conspiracy theories. I don't know if it's working on the red states more than the blue states or anything like that. But what I do know is that they did know that there was issues with this Web site before they launched it and thankfully for them, the GOP was too busy being stupid and allowed two weeks of cover so that outrage was split because people are still upset over the shutdown that happened in trying to defund Obamacare.

So they didn't get the full brunt of what could have been a much nastier greeting because of the crashing Web site because of what the GOP was doing for two years prior to that.

LEMON: Yes. Listen, I think you're right. It's -- listen.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: But let me -- let me tell you something.

LEMON: Hang on, Ana, hang on. Hang on.

NAVARRO: The real problem --

LEMON: Hang on, Ana. I think you're right. I think the Affordable Care Act, obviously, it's not a Web site, but Ana does have a point. You don't want to give your enemies any ammunition and this terrible rollout of this Web site has certainly given Republicans ammunition.

GRANDERSON: No --

LEMON: Go ahead, Ana.

NAVARRO: Well, it's not a Web site but the Web site is the vehicle to implement the law and to enroll into the law. So it is a necessary piece and component of making this legislation actually real. And also there are pieces that people like but there are pieces that people don't like. I've read many tweets today about people whose policies are getting cancelled. People who like their policies. They are having those policies cancelled.

But the real problem they are having in red states, Don, is that some of those red states have Democrat senators. Some of whom are even up for reelection. And you have seen this week, 10 Democrat senators write President Obama, write the White House, asking for delays and bringing up some of these issues because it's going to turn into a very big political issue if it's not fixed.

LEMON: Yes. Just real quickly here. If I can get quick answers from you. The Virginia's governor's race. Virginia's governor's race. The former president, Bill Clinton, and his wife, the former secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, they are campaigning for their friend, Terry McAuliffe.

Is there an early indication here of a run? Is this sort of a campaign trail early on for Hillary Clinton, L.Z.?

GRANDERSON: She started her campaign trail back in 2008. I don't know what you're talking about.

(LAUGHTER)

She started really --

(LAUGHTER)

This is just another step in that long -- as soon as she said, you know, Barack Obama is our nominee, she started thinking about, all right, you got this one, but I'm going to come back after you get these eight years. So she started her campaign way before she made her way to Virginia.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Ana, good ahead.

NAVARRO: Well, listen, Virginia is a purple state. It's an important state. Terry McAuliffe looks like the likely winner and so it's very good for the Clintons to be seen with the likely winner and be associated with them. And, you know, they do believe in you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And Terry McAuliffe raised a lot of money and a lot back scratching -- did a lot of back scratching for the Clintons in the past.

But boy, what a difference between the way they treated their friend Anthony Weiner and the way they're treating their friend, the Big Mac.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Virginia is for lovers. All right, guys. Don't know why I said that. I just thought --

NAVARRO: But not texters.

LEMON: That's (INAUDIBLE). Thank you, always a pleasure to talk to you guys.

We'll be right back, everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This story -- the next story really not for the faint of heart. Back here in New York, fresh details, surfacing in a horrific mass murder. A mother, her four children, the youngest, just 1 year old, found late last night stabbed to death in an apartment in Brooklyn.

CNN's Rosa Flores is here.

As I said, this is not for the faint of heart, is it? Terrible story. ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is such a terrible horrible story. And we're learning more about the suspect right now. The suspect is related to the victims. And what's even more disturbing, folks, is that the mother of those children was inside that apartment calling her husband for help and just couldn't get through to him by cell phone. When help did arrive, it was too late.

Here is what we know, folks. Police were called to a Brooklyn apartment regarding a stabbing. When officers arrived on the scene, they found a slaughter house. A 37-year-old mother and her four children ages 9 to 1 dead with apparent stab wounds to their upper body.

The man charged for their killing is 25-year-old Mingdong Chen, who is the cousin of the slain woman's husband. He had been staying at their home for about eight to 10 days.

Now before the killings, police say that desperate mother called her husband for help then called her mother-in-law in China who dispatched her sister-in-law. By then, it was too late.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF PHILIP BANKS, NEW YORK POLICE DEPT.: The sister arrives at the location with her husband and they bang on the door and they bang on the door. At some point he opens the door and they see that he's covered with blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Police recovered a butcher knife from the scene. A pair of scissors were also found. Mingdong Chen faces multiple charges including murder one. Four counts of murder two and resisting arrest. He speaks Mandarin. Police are using an interpreter to speak to him and do say he has made incriminating statements about his participation.

But all of these details, just awful, Don. And just moments leading up to this, I can only imagine that mother trying to get help.

LEMON: We always ask why, we always want to know why someone would do this. I don't know if there is a clear answer. But is there any word on motive?

FLORES: Any indication? The only thing that police are telling us is that -- well, they are communicating with him in Mandarin. So through an interpreter. And the one statement that he has made that police are saying is that he's been here since 2004. Have been moving around from location to location. Has been in Brooklyn for about eight to 10 days. And the one statement he made was that since he's been here, everyone else is doing better than he is.

LEMON: Wow. Interesting.

FLORES: Yes. Sad.

LEMON: We'll find out hopefully. Thank you, Rosa, for us. Appreciate that. Europe's tallest active volcano putting on a brilliant show. The details next. But first, this. In an emergency room where seconds count, training is vital. Today doctors and nurses can simulate real- life emergency situations using high-tech dummies to learn how to save lives.

I want you to check out this tech innovation. Here is CNN's Brooke Baldwin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sights and sounds of an emergency room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you feeling?

BALDWIN: Conditions that trauma doctors like Robert Benjamin are trained to handle. But this is not an average workday.

DR. ROBERT BENJAMIN, LAKELAND HOSPITAL: I had no idea that this was going to be that intense.

BALDWIN: The trauma team is training. Their patient is bleeding. And has rapidly changing vital signs but he is not in danger of dying because he's not real. This is a high-tech patient simulator.

BENJAMIN: You were able to do a neuro check. Moving extremities. Looking at his eyes. Breathing and respirations were very, very accurate.

DR. LUIS LLERENA, CAMLS: All right. We're going to stop.

Many times the learners know they're being trained. I'll just switch the scenario. I'll drop the blood pressure. What do you do now?

BALDWIN: A control room team monitors the training and the patient simulator's vitals are manipulated by remote control.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He lost a total amount of 1500 milliliters of blood. His respiratory rate is now back up to 45.

BALDWIN: Everything is recorded. Giving the team video to review and an experience that could help in real life.

BENJAMIN: We need to build up more trauma teams and they need to get to training in order to, you know, become those veteran nurses.

BALDWIN: It's all staged. But for trauma training, this is as real as it gets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. Spectacular video as Europe's tallest active volcano puts on an extraordinary show. Mt. Etna today spewing lava into the sky over Sicily. This is how the latest eruption looks to folks in a nearby city. Red lava fountains. Lots of black smoke. Mt. Etna has erupted multiple times just this year.

In Britain people are hunkering down for what could be the country's worst storm in a decade. The storm packing hurricane force winds is sweeping across the U.K. and heading towards London. The storm is expected to be at its worst tonight and during the overnight hours. The biggest concerns are damage from powerful winds and torrential flooding.

We're going to go live to southern England next few hour. Stay tuned for that.

You know, when Superstorm Sandy veered toward New York almost one year ago, there was not an official hurricane warning.

CNN's John Zarrella has the story behind the mixed message.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the people who lived through it, Hurricane Sandy was a nightmare. For emergency managers and forecasters, Sandy was a nauseating mess.

RICK KNABB, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: We had a difficult dilemma on our hands.

ZARRELLA: Hurricane Center director Rick Knabb says next time there won't be a dilemma. Why requires looking at what happened. Forecasters new Sandy was morphing, becoming a super storm. While it had hurricane force winds and pushed that wall of water storm surge towards the coastline, by the time it made landfall, it wouldn't be a hurricane, technically.

CRAIG FUGATE, FEMA DIRECTOR: Of all the disasters we deal with, hurricanes are the ones that we map and spend a lot of time trying to figure out who's at risk and then get the messaging out there for them to evacuate with time to leave.

ZARRELLA: But the message may have been missed. There wasn't a hurricane warning because again, technically, Sandy wasn't one. To avoid what it felt would be confusion and misrepresenting the storm, the National Weather Service decided to go with high wind and flood warnings.

KNABB: There is no doubt that the phrase hurricane warning is more attention-getting.

ZARRELLA: It's impossible to say whether some lives would have been saved if the attention-getting phrase would have been in place. But in the wake of Sandy, policy is changed, allowing watches and warnings to go up regardless of what you call the storm. There are other changes coming, too. Part of an ongoing process in the works even before Sandy. Evacuation zones are changing from Maine to Texas. Because hurricane forecasters and researchers have a better understanding than they did a decade ago of the storm surge from monsters like Sandy.

JAMIE RHOME, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: When you put those big storms into our model they produce more surge so we redid all of our modeling which meant that everybody had to update their evacuation zones which means that most evacuation zones have gotten larger.

ZARRELLA: Another new model will make it easier for people to look at and evaluate the risk from storm surge. All of these new tools are designed to make sure the public gets the message.

John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And to read more stories of resilience from the survivors of Hurricane Sandy, make sure you check out our main page at CNN.com.

This World Series is getting bizarre. Our sports analyst explains the weird rule that everyone is debating. That's up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK, so last night's World Series game will be talked about for years. The Cardinals won in the bottom of the ninth on a wild play featuring a rare obstruction call that decided the game.

So I want to talk about it now with Terence Moore. He's a sports contributor to CNN.com and a columnist for MLB.com.

I'm glad we're talking about this. I was watching the game at a restaurant before I went out to this crazy Halloween party. That's another story, though.

(LAUGHTER)

So, basically, and I wasn't -- I don't really understand it so help me out here. So basically, Terence, a Cardinals runner was tripped up as he ran around third base and he headed for home. He was thrown out but ruled safe because he tripped over the Boston player.

Did the umpire make the right call?

TERENCE MOORE, CNN.COM SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Don, this was definitely the right call and for those who are baseball challenged out there, look, don't feel bad because this is one of those rules that you need a magnifying glass to find in the rule book, OK?

Now to make it simple, it's like this. If you are a fielder, you are not allowed to interfere with a base runner trying to get to the next base.

LEMON: OK.

MOORE: And -- on the base pass. OK. Normally you see this play happen or called when a guy is trying to break up a double play. Trying to scramble up to go to third base. You never see this call at third base with a guy trying to come home because it never happens. And you never see this in a game-winning situation because it never happens. And you never see this in the World Series because it never happens. That's why this so unbelievable.

LEMON: OK. Well, it did happen. So now I understand it. I get it now. I thought -- I thought all is fair. You know what I mean? But this is basically interference. A pass interference. You cannot interfere with another player or blocking, or whatever.

MOORE: Yes, I mean -- this is not big time wrestling in another words.

LEMON: Right. Gotcha. OK. Now I got it. A simple answer. And you explained it very adeptly.

Is the umpire -- this umpire is known for another high profile incident, though. Remind us about that.

MOORE: Yes, you know, unfortunately, this guy is Jim Joyce. He's been a Major League umpire for 16 years. And what you're referring to, Don, it goes back to the summer of 2010 in Detroit when he called a runner safe at first base when a runner was out.

Now what that did was it cost the Detroit pitcher at the time a perfect game. Now after that was done, Jim Joyce cried like a baby because he blew it. And this is what makes this so amazing. Prior to that play, Jim Joyce was voted in a poll of baseball players as being the top umpire in Major League Baseball. Now he can't get away from controversy.

Isn't that how it happens, sometimes?

LEMON: OK. Yes. No, when you court controversy, that's kind of happens, right?

So listen, let's talk about the NFL now. The Rams lost their quarterback to injury last Sunday. And just a few days later we hear that they actually called the future Hall of Gamer Brett Favre. Favre turned them down and then gives an interview to WSP's -- WSPZ radio and reveals that he's having memory problems, possibly related to concussions.

Terence, Bret Favre was so popular. If he suffers long-term health damage from concussions, is that going to put a whole new face on this discussion that we have been having for really years now? It's really been building and building each year about NFL player health and concussions?

MOORE: Well, I mean, no question. This is huge. Because I tell what you, Don. The dirty little secret right now, throughout football, not just in the NFL, you've got a lot of guys out there who are not playing hurt as much as they used to because of all these concussion talk.

And you look at Brett Favre. Brett Favre was the poster boy for playing with a concussion. He went 20 consecutive seasons just about without missing a game. Sacked over 500 times, which is crazy. OK. And we see that's crazy because now the same Brett Favre says he can't even remember an entire summer that one of his daughters played soccer.

So this is going to have a lasting effect and ramifications forever in the National Football League and beyond.

LEMON: Wow. I mean, that is -- that's really sad. You think about that and you think about dementia and you think about Alzheimer's. I mean, not being able to remember huge chunks of your life.

MOORE: Yes.

LEMON: What does it say, though, about the state of NFL quarter backs that the Rams felt like they should try to talk Brett Favre into coming out of retirement.

MOORE: Well, I mean --

LEMON: And Brett Favre -- I mean, let's get -- Brett Favre is a young man relatively, but not in sports.

MOORE: At 44, he's an old guy. I mean, one thing is, you have all these injuries taking place in the National Football League. Primarily because you have a lot of read option type situations going on in offenses and starting -- going into today's game for instance, you have 11 teams that started their back-up quarterback at least once.

But the other thing is this. Outside of the big six or seven quarterbacks, let's face it. There aren't that many good quarterbacks out there. I mean, you and I probably could be a third string quarterback for a lot of these NFL teams.

LEMON: Speak for yourself.

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: You look like you're in pretty good shape.

LEMON: Maybe a relay runner. But football --

(LAUGHTER)

I've had enough head injuries, too. So thank you. Appreciate it, Terrence. Good to talk to you.

MOORE: Thank you.