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Paul Ciancia Accused of Killing TSA Officer, Wounding Seven Others, Bernard Goetz Busted for Drugs; Polls: GOP Governor Chris Christie Looks Headed for Victory In "Blue" New Jersey; Book Claims Romney Considered Christie as Running Mate; Book Claims Obama Campaign Looked at Replacing Biden with Clinton; Study: People More Likely to Lie, Cheat in Afternoon; Sex Workers Pleased with Obamacare Website
Aired November 02, 2013 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Don Lemon here in the NEWSROOM. Back now with our live coverage. We're going to learn a lot of new things about what happened in Los Angeles including a new photograph of the victim. We hope to have that for you within the next hour. We'll begin, of course, in Los Angeles where we have just learned beefed-up security teams are monitoring LAX. Airport police are getting lots of help one day after a gunman opened fire killing a TSA officer and bringing chaos to one of the world's busiest airports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF PATRICK GANNON, LOS ANGELES AIRPORT POLICE: Today in our enhanced deployment for Los Angeles world airport, Los Angeles Police Department has committed additional resources. This morning I met with the federal air marshals and they're providing additional resources for us. Obviously today and for the foreseeable future we'll continue our very high profile at the curbs and anywhere in those ticketing areas and anywhere on our campuses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We're also learning some new troubling clues emerging about the suspect 23-year-old Paul Ciancia. A source tells CNN the suspect had a note with an anti-TSA rant. The note also reflected his fear of an ominous new world order. Our affiliates KCAL and KCBS got this exclusive video and they are reporting it appears to show the suspect handcuffed to the stretcher. CNN cannot independently confirm who it is. We also have video of the chaos inside the airport moments after shots were fired, and you can hear police screaming for people to get down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: On the floor! On the floor now! On the floor!
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Chill, chill, chill, chill.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Go, go, go.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Can you imagine being caught up in that? Now stranded passengers are reclaiming bags abandoned in the panic. We're covering every angle of the story for you.
Kyung Lah is live at LAX. Barbara Starr is in Washington. So, we're going to get to both of them, but I'm going to start with my colleague Kyung Lah at LAX. Right now TSA Chief John Pistol is headed to Los Angeles Kyung to meet with the FBI and the grieving family of TSA officer Gerardo Hernandez. So, tell me how LAX is honoring this fallen TSA officer.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just like the high security that we just heard about in the news conference, Don, there is also going to be visible signs of mourning here at the United States sixth busiest airport. When you first drive in, there are these 100-foot pylons at the entrance of LAX. They are going to be lit blue, and that's going to be for the TSA. The TSA color up until Thursday. And then once you get past the entrance and you start to check in, you'll see that TSA officers here have on their badges a black band, and that is for their fallen officer, their fellow co-worker, Mr. Hernandez. What we're seeing here not just visible signs of security but also visible signs of grief -- Don.
LEMON: And what are investigators looking for at the airport today? We had a brief conversation about it, you know, just a couple minutes ago, Kyung, but what exactly are they looking for today?
LAH: Well, the terminal has just reopened fully. We know that that was a key thing, that they wanted to wrap up collecting the evidence in the terminal as quickly as possible, trying to retrace what this suspect did in order to try to get this place open. Because the backlog here at LAX is immense. So, what they are looking for here, it's bifurcated in one way. They want to make sure that they collect all the evidence. Figure out what he did inside the terminal, but then also look at motive. Why did he move to Los Angeles? Why did this young man seemingly have this anti-TSA bent, try to talk to friends, colleagues, anyone he knew in Los Angeles to try to figure out and piece together this young man's mindset -- Don.
LEMON: And what about the stranded passengers, Kyung?
LAH: The state of passengers here, I mean, let's just look at this one number, Don. A hundred and sixty seven thousand people who were affected by the closure last night, yesterday, into last night. The -- trying to gear up and get all those people back in the air, try to figure out where the planes are in the western region because of the shutdown here in Los Angeles, planes were completely out of whack here on the west coast. And so a lot of travel was disrupted yesterday. It's all about trying to get that back into place. It is going to be several more hours, Don, before you really start to see everything moving very smoothly here at LAX
LEMON: Unfortunately so. OK, thank you very much, Kyung. We appreciate your reporting there.
An eyewitness told CNN when he came across the LAX shooter that the gunman asked one question --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON SARYAN, WAS FACE-TO-FACE WITH LAX GUNMAN: He saw me cowering there. He had a gun, and he looked at me and he said TSA? And I just shook my head. He kept going. If I had a TSA uniform, I wouldn't be here talking to you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I have no doubt about that.
SARYAN: I'm convinced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: But some experts believe the shooter's motivations may go beyond the TSA. CNN's Barbara Starr has been digging in to that side of the story for us. So, Barbara, you spoke with a former FBI profiler. What did the profiler say to you?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we started chatting about the fact that law enforcement is telling us that they found material, anti-TSA, anti-government, this concept of the new world order, which is a conspiracy theory that is out there that some people believe that elites are going to form a new kind of one world government if you will. So, we talked to some FBI profilers who have served in the past who say, wait a minute. Yes, maybe. But there may be something much deeper here, much more indicative of basic anti- social behavior. I want you to listen to Mary Ellen O'Toole, a former senior FBI profiler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER SENIOR FBI PROFILER: My sense would be that he got into this through the internet as opposed to personal interactions with government agencies where he was treated impolitely or treated badly. And, again, the thought process for someone who decides my life's not going well, I'm angry at everybody, I blame everybody for what's happened to me, that thinking process takes a long time to develop. It doesn't just happen two weeks before the incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, clearly this was someone that had some very anti- government feelings, anti-TSA feelings. He went after the TSA personnel. Then he moved further into the terminal asking people if they were TSA, but he goes on into the terminal. So, they're going to want to look at that whole -- the whole timeline, the whole incident, trying to figure out what was going on in his mind, what he thought he was doing, you know, as he moved down that long passageway and also looking, of course, at those security measures, how did he get so far in there, so close to an airplane, and maybe able to wreak such havoc and tragedy before he was stopped.
LEMON: That is unbelievable, Barbara, I mean, he really got a long ways into that airport. And, again, as you said, he wreaked so much havoc there. Police officers, Barbara, were one station at security checkpoints at LAX. Why is that no longer the case? And is that being revisited?
STARR: Well, it may well be revisited. It turns out our Dan Simon in Los Angeles has learned that armed police officers were -- used to be right at the TSA checkpoint. Now after some back-and-forth between the police officers groups and the TSA, they were allowed to go a little bit further, to patrol a little bit, to move around inside the terminal as long as they were two minutes away from being able to get right back to that checkpoint if there was a situation they needed to deal with. So, I think that will be looked at. But, look, we've all gone through these checkpoints.
You know, somebody -- an officer could be standing at one part of a checkpoint and a bad guy, if you will, could be on the other side, you know, end of the checkpoint and start some incident. So, it will all be looked at. But whether it does require a fundamental change in the security posture, still, I think, is something that remains to be determined. Investigators really, Don, trying to figure out what really happened here.
LEMON: Yes. And Barbara Starr will be on top of every angle. Barbara, thank you, we appreciate that.
Let's get more answers now, see if we can, from Mary Schiavo, she is a former inspector general at the Department of Transportation. Mary, thank you. Sadly, we only see each other on tragedies. But it's good seeing you again. Do you think that this incident will trigger some changes how the TSA is set up at airports, going off what Barbara has just reported?
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: Well, it will. But you know, as a country we seem to be a little schizophrenic about airport security. Just last week the TSA was trying to make their checkpoints kinder, gentler, friendlier, they were talking about mood lighting, I think it was an article in "The Wall Street Journal" about mood lighting at the checkpoints, et cetera. We know we need airport security, we know we need professional law enforcement which is TSA performing it. Yes, we have politicians one from Florida in particular still screaming to reprivatize it and give it back to the airlines and the private security companies.
What we have to do is face up to the fact that aviation is the target of choice for crazies, for terrorists. There have been over 1,000 attacks on aviation since the 1930s. And we have to have this professional police force including with armed guards. The two-minute rule usually works. They wanted to get them away from the checkpoints to get the tempers, you know, from overheating. And, remember, this year the TSA took more guns off of passengers than at any time in history. So the checkpoint has a lot of guns. Mostly those guns are guns that people forgot.
LEMON: I want to -- I want to ask you this because you mentioned armed guards. And I want you to talk more about it. Do you think TSA officers should be armed? Do you think there should be some other guards there? Police officers, maybe members of the military?
SCHIAVO: Well, and it's already different airport by airport. Some airports have armed police officers. They have airport police right at each checkpoint. Los Angeles is really tough. And as a former Los Angeles resident myself, I mean, you know, I know each of those terminals well, but there are so many. So, Los Angeles a very tough place because they have so many portals into the airport. But, yes, I do think you need an armed guard, an armed personnel, law enforcement at the gates and I do think it has to be law enforcement for many reasons. But you cannot arm all the TSA. Because when you arm a federal officer, it puts them in a different rank. You have to re- qualify on the firearms. A lot of my employees were armed. You have to re-qualify every 30 days. It's very expensive. It's very difficult, but the TSA needs to be protected with armed personnel and I think it has to be officers. I think it has to be police.
LEMON: Can I ask you something real quickly. Because what about the actual physicality of the airports? I notice Los Angeles, it's not a long distance between the curb and when you get to security. Same thing at LaGuardia, it's like, security is right there. But there are other bigger airports where you have to go a longer way, there are more steps, more layers. Is that something that may possibly we should be looking in to?
SCHIAVO: Yes. But it's very difficult, because the airports that are newer like Hartsfield, like Denver, they're set up with many barriers to entry and you have a few main portals so they're easier to secure and they're less expensive to secure, airports like Los Angeles, Dallas Fort Worth, Kansas City were you have lots -- it was built for passenger convenience, you could just pull up to the gate and unload and off you go to your gate. But now in the modern world of terrorist attacking airlines, that doesn't make sense. So, some airports are going to be much more able to have a secondary barrier where you can go through one area. Where you can be looked at. And not necessarily searched but at least have personnel, armed personnel, law enforcement, and then go through the TSA checkpoint. Los Angeles is tough, but, you know, lord, we love it, but it's a tough one to secure.
LEMON: It really is. Thank you very much. Hey, listen, will you hang with me for just a minute here?
SCHIAVO: Sure.
LEMON: Because I want to put up this picture, this is a picture -- can we put this up. This is new that we just got in here to CNN. And this is the young man who died yesterday in that shooting. His name is Gerardo Hernandez. Gerardo Hernandez. And this is a picture of him. This is from his family. Our Chris Lawrence is out there in New Jersey, and with the family. The family, obviously shocked the community and shocked -- I'm sorry, he's out there with the family of the suspect, I'm sorry. But obviously the family of this young man shocked as well as the country about this. Mary, this is sad time for the TSA, the first TSA officer killed in the line of duty, I'm sure you will agree. SCHIAVO: Absolutely. And the TSA, you know, they get so much criticism, but there's just no comparison to how security was on September 11th, 2001, and how it is now. The TSA dramatically improved things and we just have to make sure that they're protected, but we need the TSA desperately.
LEMON: Thank you, Mary. Always great information. If we can just put that picture up as we go to break because we want to ho honor those who keep us safe at the airport. There is Gerardo Hernandez, the TSA agent died in that incident at LAX yesterday. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Bernhard Goetz, remember that name? That was one of the most notorious names in the country in the mid-1980s. The New York media called him the subway vigilante after he shot four black teenagers he claimed were trying to rob him. The attempted murder trial was huge national news and he went to jail for a few months. Today after many years of keeping a very low profile, Bernhard Goetz is back in the news now.
CNN's Rosa Flores is here. So, tell us why we are talking about Bernhard Goetz today.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, today he allegedly sold $30 worth of marijuana to an undercover police officer in New York and now faces various drug charges. Now, this time he was arrested following the incident, Don, but back in the 80s you probably remember, like you said, shot four black teenagers and he walked away. He walked off of the subway and he said that he was tired of being a victim. And so, Don, what we did is we dug up some video, an interview with Nancy Grace on "LARRY KING LIVE." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNHARD GOETZ, SHOT TEENAGERS IN NYC SUBWAY IN 1984: I was mugged and got a rather brutal beating about a year, a year and a half prior to that. I thought I was a pretty good physical specimen. But there was a teenager from Brooklyn who basically wiped the floor with me on the street. He -- he -- he gave -- he gave me a punch that I didn't even feel. All I knew is I was looking up at the sky and I tried to fight him and I got a number of injuries after that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: Now, we've got to take you back to 1984 in New York. Crime and racial tensions were very high. The trust in the system was very low, and I even believe, I think we have some old video, some footage from the scene, if you can roll that, so you can really see kind of how the subway is even different from the one, the subway that we see now, but Goetz was saying, I felt like a victim. I had been mugged many, many times. And you're seeing the video now. This is the file footage. Look at it, Don.
LEMON: Yes. The graffiti. FLORES: Graffiti, you really don't recognize what the subway looks like. Now, one question that you usually ask someone who has pulled the trigger, do you regret pulling the trigger. Here's what he said --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: No, I don't regret pulling the trigger. I regret -- I should have been more careful with many of the things I said afterwards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes.
FLORES: Now, they asked him a couple of other questions, Nancy Grace did, that were very interesting. First of all, do you carry a gun now? He didn't answer. He didn't want to answer that. Do you use the subway? He lives in New York, so, of course, that answer was yes. And then they also asked him have you been mugged again? Take a listen --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOETZ: Twice. Guys came to try to shoot me and I will not say what happened in those incidents. However, that was many years ago, once just some stranger tried to surprise me with a gun, but someone pointed out, hey, this guy's going to try to draw a gun on you. And I just stared him down. I said, let him go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: We should add that Goetz was acquitted of murder and assault charges in this case, but he was convicted of illegal possession of a weapon and served less than nine months in jail. As for the alleged sale of marijuana to an undercover police officer, he was just arraigned in criminal court. His next court date is December 18th and that's according to the Manhattan District Attorney's Office -- Don.
LEMON: Yes, apparently he sold $30 of --
FLORES: Allegedly sold.
LEMON: Allegedly sold $30 worth of marijuana to this undercover woman police officer. She bought it. Walked away, and then the guys swooped in and arrested him. We'll see. We'll hear more about it. Very interesting. Thank you, Rosa. We appreciate it.
FLORES: Of course.
LEMON: Tonight when you logon to the healthcare.gov website, you'll see something like this. Again, this time they're taking it down but they're doing it on purpose. We'll tell you why next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Healthcare.gov website will be down again tonight. But in this case the outage is a deliberate one. At least this time. But Department of Health and Human Services says starting at 9:00 Eastern, the website will be offline to work on making enhancements to the system. The outage will last 12 hours. You can still use the toll- free number to sign up for health insurance. So, it will be down a little bit tonight.
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie looks like he's headed for an easy re-election victory on Tuesday adding to speculation about a possible Christie run for the White House. If he were to be the GOP nominee in 2016, he could face Hillary Clinton or maybe Vice President Joe Biden, a new book claims it could have been Hillary Clinton instead of Joe Biden as VP right now.
Let's talk about with it -- about Christie with Hillary and the vice president -- let's say this again. Let's talk about Christie and Hillary as vice president with two of CNN's political commentators.
Joining me now from Washington is Democratic strategist Maria Cardona and Republican strategist Kevin Madden. Wow. I feel like it's "Crossfire." Thanks for joining us, Kevin and Maria.
(LAUGHTER)
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thanks, Don, good to be here.
LEMON: Good to see you. So, Kevin, polls show Chris Christie cruising towards re-election. New Jersey is a democratic state and he's apparently making inroads among women, among Hispanics and other minorities.
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
LEMON: Is he rewriting the Republican playbook for winning traditionally Democratic voters?
MADDEN: Well, yes, I think it's an important sort of case study for how Republicans can do a better job of winning not only the middle but constituencies that are not traditionally within the Republican Party. So, I think the reason -- one of the ways he's done that is he's put aside a lot of the ideology which Washington tends to be really focused. All of the debates we have here in wood paneled rooms up on Capitol Hill, many of the folks are focused on can be the most pure ideologically. And then here you have as a chief executive in a very blue state who is focused on solving problems, who is focused on making government work. And when you do that, that's something that's oftentimes rewarded by not only Republicans but by many of those independent voters and Democrats and that's the key to winning nationally.
LEMON: Yes. I'm just looking at a picture on twitter that our Pete Hamby has just tweeted out and it's Chris Christie at a rally with his wife Mary Pat whom he often talks about. I'm going to get to you, Maria, but I want to ask Kevin this.
MADDEN: Yes. LEMON: He's arguing with a teacher in this picture. I mean, love him or hate him, do you think people -- do you think this is going to have any effect on his re-election bid or if he decides to run for president, how will this play, this particular part of his personality, this in-your-face kind of personality?
MADDEN: It's helped him in his re-election bid. That style in New Jersey works with New Jersey voters. The big problem going -- the big challenge, I would call it, going ahead for someone like Chris Christie is does that abrasive style, that take-charge style, does it work with voters in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina...
LEMON: Right.
MADDEN: ...Florida and beyond. Many of those voters out there, they ask tough questions, they like to test their candidates. And if you're going to blow up at a town hall in Iowa, it's not going to be received the way on YouTube that it is received in Trenton, New Jersey.
LEMON: Yes. And, listen, New York, New Jerseyans, Philadelphians are a little bit different than people across -- everyone is sort of in your face here.
CARDONA: Uh-huh.
LEMON: And that's just how it is, right?
CARDONA: Yes.
LEMON: Maria, as a democratic strategist, are you worried that Chris Christie could attract a big chunk of minority voters on Tuesday and then do the same thing in a bid for the White House in 2016?
CARDONA: I would be, except for I don't think he's going to get the nomination because while everything that Kevin just stated is true, I absolutely agree with him, he is going to get re-elected quite easily this week. And he's going to do that with Democrats, with women, with Hispanics, with African-Americans, with frankly what looks very much like the coalition that got President Obama elected. But the problem with that, Don, is that that is absolutely not going to help him get through the Republican primary. The Republican primary is full of exactly the folks that Kevin talked about that are focused on pure ideology here in Washington.
LEMON: He's not Republican enough?
CARDONA: He's not -- he is not conserve -- he is not Tea Party enough, let's put it that way. And he's going up against Rand Paul, and we saw already the division within the Republican Party itself when Rand Paul and Chris Christie went at each other. And there's a pew poll very interesting pew poll that says that right now at least the momentum of the Republican base and Republican voters leans toward the civil libertarianism that Rand Paul represents. That does not bode well for somebody like Chris Christie to make it to the nomination. LEMON: There's a new book out on Tuesday, it's called "Double Down, Game Change, 2012." It says that Mitt Romney considered Chris Christie as his running mate but that his background was, quote, "littered with potential land mines." Kevin, we just talked about that a little bit. You were a top Romney adviser back then.
MADDEN: Yes.
SHARPTON: Do you care to break a little news and tell us exactly why Mitt Romney did not choose Chris Christie as his running mate?
MADDEN: Well, look, you know, the gossip is always about who they didn't pick and why. But the reality is if I could take you inside the campaign, governor -- Governor Romney chose the person that he thought would help him govern best, the person who he had the strongest rapport with. Oftentimes we put a lot of formulaic reasons for why somebody wasn't picked or should be picked, but when it comes down to it the candidate themselves have to know they have a really strong relationship with the person who's going to be their -- be their VP and that they can help them govern. And I think -- to tell you the truth, I think Governor Romney had his heart set on Paul Ryan from the very beginning. He went through a very detailed process of considering all of his options but he was very focused on Paul Ryan from the beginning.
LEMON: Kevin, you're very good at what you do, and that was a nice pivot. But that was not my question. I said why didn't he pick Chris Christie?
MADDEN: I honestly think it had to do with picking Paul Ryan. I think there were a number of challenges with Chris Christie. Namely, I think the book talks a lot about his weight and talks a lot about of vetting record. But I think namely, Chris Christie is not somebody who would be comfortable in the role of being a number two. And when you're going to be president, you have to have confidence that the person who is going to be your number two is going to be focused on your agenda and I think someone like Chris Christie with a very strong personality, he has very fixed ideas about what he wants to do, they don't necessarily fit very well in that role of being a vice presidential candidate.
LEMON: He's used to being a front. He's the alpha. He's the leader.
MADDEN: So, he's used to being the number one.
LEMON: Yes.
MADDEN: And you know, what, Don? Going back to when Governor Romney was considered as a vice presidential candidate, in 2008, as a potential running mate for John McCain, I made the same argument. I said Mitt Romney is a number one. He is not going to be somebody who is going to fit very well inside that box of the vice presidential candidate.
LEMON: OK. Maria, let's talk about this. That same book, "Double Down," also says the Obama campaign explored dumping Joe Biden -- I hate to say that, dumping Joe Biden --
(LAUGHTER)
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: So harsh.
LEMON: I know. Replacing Joe Biden with Hillary Clinton. How do you think Joe Biden is feeling right now having read that? And should they have changed?
CARDONA: You know, I think Joe Biden understands the talk that goes on and the gossip that goes on here in Washington. You know, he's -- he's a grown-up. And I think he knows Washington better than almost anybody. So, I don't think it bothers him at all.
LEMON: Come on, Maria.
CARDONA: I really don't because he also realizes -- and what I the White House has been very good at pushing back, is that this was never really a consideration. Did they do focus groups, did they do polls? Sure, at that point, Don, if you remember, Obama was going through a very tough time. A lot of Democrats were actually wondering whether that would be a good move. But at the end of the day, and if you remember, at the point where it was the Biden vice presidential debate, it was Joe Biden who actually brought Obama back from the brink. And I don't think Obama ever really considered this. And according to the book and to people that I've talked to, it was never brought to him.
So, I think Joe Biden should be feeling A-OK because I think he understands that this president really has a lot of respect for him, never considered dumping him as the book says and that it's all just a bunch of fun, Washington chatter.
LEMON: And --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Go ahead, Kevin.
MADDEN: Joe Biden is very human. He's even more than human, you could even say, right?
(LAUGHTER)
So I bet you there's probably a lot --
LEMON: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by that!
(LAUGHTER)
MADDEN: There's going to be a lot of awkward silences in their weekly lunch.
(LAUGHTER)
But I will agree with Maria. Having been on the side of the aisle here, I never, ever thought that they would replace Joe Biden. There was so much chatter about it, but it would have been such a sign of weakness to get rid of your sitting vice president --
CARDONA: Yeah.
MADDEN: -- to bring on another vice president, even if it was Hillary Clinton.
LEMON: And, Kevin, because of Obama has this perception of being aloof, right, President Obama, I should say, be respectful --
MADDEN: Right.
LEMON: -- has this perception of being aloof. Hillary Clinton sort of as being sort of an elitist, right?
MADDEN: Right.
LEMON: Joe Biden is Joe six-pack, the average guy. Takes the ACELA and takes the Amtrak train home --
(LAUGHTER)
-- and he's like the "tell it like it is" guy. That would, I think, have been disastrous, if they had even changed. I think you guys might agree.
CARDONA: Yeah.
MADDEN: Absolutely.
CARDONA: I completely agree with that. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
CARDONA: And it ended up working out for him, right?
LEMON: Yeah.
I'm going to steal from "Crossfire." We'll cease-fire now. Everybody agrees, at least on this last subject.
(LAUGHTER)
Thank you, Kevin.
Thank you, Maria.
Appreciate it.
CARDONA: Thanks, Don.
MADDEN: Great to be with you, Don. LEMON: You, as well.
I'm going to bring in my next guest in just a moment. But a new study says maybe you can't believe a word they say. Why? We've got that, next.
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. A Harvard study -- this is a very interesting story, so please listen. A Harvard study said people are more likely to lie or cheat in the afternoon. Could this be true? Could this be you?
Well, we're going to try to get the truth about this from psychologist, Wendy Walsh; and criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes.
OK. Wendy, we're going to start with you.
This study says that we get tired --
WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT & PSYCHOLOGIST: OK.
LEMON: -- near the end of the day and we lose some of the capacity for self-control, so, we lie more.
WALSH: Well, the study -- well, the study doesn't actually talk about why this happens as much as it clearly does. And believe it or not, the people who are most moral in the morning -- I like to think well- rested, fresh brain, the higher parts of our personality are functioning -- those people took the bigger dive in the afternoon. So they showed people these green dots on a right or left screen and they asked them to estimate which had more dots, and it was pretty obvious. But they only paid them if they choose the right side of the screen, which meant they could only make money at a certain point if they started to lie. If they were tested in the afternoon, they didn't do so well.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Oh, man, this segment could go on. I'm telling you the truth here.
(LAUGHTER)
So, Holly, you work in a courtroom, right? As a courtroom attorney, dealing with people on the stand. Do you think witnesses or your clients seem to lie more in the afternoon?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: No. I think when you consider the enormity of what's at stake -- let's put it that way -- it's a very different setting than just your average, hey, you know, no, I didn't take that $5 out of your purse, mom. No, I didn't say that bad thing to you to your friends. When you consider what's at stake, in my world, as a criminal defense attorney, you know, they all lie, Don, because they are scared and they could lose their liberty. So what you do is you develop trust. So it doesn't get into so much timing as it is what's at stake for my folks.
LEMON: God, I want to say a whole bunch here but --
(LAUGHTER)
HUGHES: Come on, let's have it.
LEMON: No, I just think --
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Because you work at night.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: If you have a policy that you're always truthful with people, even when they don't want to hear it, they'll always be fine. People get mad at me --
WALSH: Yes, but, Don --
LEMON: -- but I always tell the truth. I never lie. I swear to you.
WALSH: But we are trapped in our biology, Don, and there are all kinds of circumstances when we're overtired, when we're hungry. One study I read showed that people are altruistic and they will give help to someone suffering on the street if they're not being rushed to an appointment. But no matter how moral and good you are, if you're on your way to an appointment and you know someone is waiting for you, you don't stop to help. So there are all kinds of cultural and realistic influences on whether we're honest or not or helpful or not.
LEMON: And that's no lie.
OK, thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
Good to see you guys.
HUGHES: Thanks.
WALSH: You too, Don.
LEMON: Appreciate it.
News just coming in to CNN from the sports world. The head coach of the NFL's Denver Broncos has been taken to a North Carolina hospital. The details on this straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hello, everyone. Welcome back. This news just coming in to CNN, it's from the sports world. It's about the head coach of NFL coach from the Denver Broncos. They say that Joe Fox felt lightheaded while playing golf today. And a team spokesman said he did not have a heart attack. He's being held at a Charlotte hospital for further testing. The Broncos do not play tomorrow. They have an off week. We'll keep you updated on that one.
In the meantime, students and staff at a college campus in southwest Missouri are in shock and mourning this weekend. One of their assistant football coaches was shot dead in the parking lot of a movie theater. It happened late last night. Police have a man in custody who they suspect shot 37-year-old Derrick Moore. Moore was a first- year offensive line coach at Missouri Southern State University. No word yet from police on why that happened, on a motive.
A brief moment of panic at a Denver Nuggets game. They introduced a mascot, dropped him down on a wire, but he wasn't moving. We'll tell you what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Corporal Michael Voucher will never forget June 12th, 2011, the day his whole life changed.
CORP. MICHAEL VOUCHER, WOUNDED IN AFGHANISTAN: We were in Afghanistan, and an IED was set off. It was a blessing I was conscious because I didn't have to wake up later and realize both my legs were missing.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: He was 22 years old.
VOUCHER: I was trying to figure out what I could do and what I wasn't.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Voucher always liked to hunt and fish. Now an all-terrain wheelchair is helping him get back to doing what he loves the most.
VOUCHER: It turns your disability into an ability.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: With tracks like a mini tank, it will go almost anywhere, through mud, sand, snow, even up and down hills.
Tim Swenson created the Action Track Chair after his own son was paralyzed in a car accident.
TIM SWENSON, ACTION MANUFACTURING: I always thought about, how can I get Jeff to be back outdoors and get off the hard surface.
UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: So he used his background in motorsports to design an off-road electric chair that could help more than just his son.
SWENSON: We started using some of the things I knew about snowmobiles and the ATVs and we started building. UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Swenson sold his first one in 2009 and offers different sizes for both kids and adults. And he designed a second model that allows paralyzed people to stand up.
But the chairs aren't cheap. They start at $10,000 and are not yet covered by insurance.
VOUCHER: It's made a huge difference, and it's added that independence back to my life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Friday was a rough night for Rocky, the Denver Nuggets mascot. In the pre-game stunt, he was supposed to repel from the rafters, but the crowd could see something was wrong as he dangled from the rope. By the time he got to the court, staffers were ready to drag Rocky away. Some reports say, as he was lowered, he had gotten the wind knocked out of him. Affiliate KUSA reports Rocky is doing fine now. Better than the Nuggets, who are 0-2. It's high up. Maybe it was altitude sickness or something.
Remember, tonight is the end of Daylight Saving Time. There's no "S" on the end -- it's now savings like a bank -- Daylight Saving Time. You fall back this time of year, setting your clock back an hour. That officially starts 2:00 a.m. eastern. 2:00 a.m. eastern, the end of Daylight Saving Time.
There have been a lot of issues with the healthcare.gov website. But at least one group of people seems to be thrilled about Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act, sex workers. Yes, sex workers. That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ESTELLA PYFROM, CNN HERO: I grew up in the segregated south. I started picking beans at age 6. My father, I used to hear him say, if you get a good education, you can get a good job. So we knew that education was important.
In today's time, many of our children don't have computers at home and low-income families don't have transportation to get to where the computers are. Kids who don't have access to computers after school will be left behind.
My name is Estella Pyfrom. At age 71, I took my retirement savings to create a classroom to bring high-tech learning to communities in need.
All right, let's get on board.
(SHOUTING)
PYFROM: Estella's Reading Bus is a mobile learning center.
Are you ready to get on the computers?
(SHOUTING)
PYFROM: We want to do what we can do to make things better for all, adults as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, got it.
PYFROM: I see the bus as being able to bridge that gap between technology and the lack of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She helps me by having one-on-one attention. I look forward to it a lot.
PYFROM: How we doing here?
It's not just a bus, it's a movement. And we're going to go from neighborhood to neighborhood and keep making a difference.
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: There's a lot of grumbling at the healthcare.gov website. But one group of independent and unique business of women is excited about getting a chance to get health insurance.
I'll let our Laurie Segall explain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SHOUTING
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Each one of these women run a small business with no access to health care --
(SHOUTING)
SEGALL: -- despite the risks they take with their bodies.
This woman is a sex worker. She goes by the name Maxine Holloway. And believe it or not, this isn't a bachelor party.
(SHOUTING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, here we are.
SEGALL: A burlesque act is the entertainment at a grass-roots Obama registration event, called the Healthy Hose Party.
(SHOUTING)
SEGALL: The people signing up are sex workers and their supporters. For them, this truly feels like something to celebrate.
JOLENE, SEX WORKER: For me, as an in-person escort, my health is more at risk than someone who doesn't have contact with their jobs.
SEGALL: They printed out paper applications just to make sure the crashing site didn't stop them. Many haven't been covered in years and are particularly high risk.
(on camera): We wanted to see how much a sex worker in the Bay area, where these women are -- how much they would pay for Obamacare. We asked them how much do they make. They said they make between $30,000 and $40,000 a year.
SIOUXSIE Q, SEX WORKER: Under this act, we have some hope.
SEGALL: Using an insurance calculator, now we've selected the state, average income of the women in this area that they told us.
SIOUXSIE Q: Under the Affordable Care Act --
SEGALL: They will pay $3500 a year. That's translates to about $300 a month.
(voice-over): That's before any subsidies.
SIOUXSIE Q: I would say like three times as year I would try to explore my options and come up empty handed.
(SINGING)
SEGALL: If Siouxsie and her partner wanted private health care before Obamacare, plans to cover them were between $400 and $500 a month. Now, they will pay $200 a month or less.
SIOUXSIE Q: It's so exciting to see that number with a "one" in front of it.
SEGALL: They will get a subsidy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Big changes are coming to health insurance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEGALL: Monthly premiums may not be cheaper for everyone, including sex workers. Individuals may end up paying more if their old plans don't meet the coverage standards of the Affordable Care Act. But people who qualify for a subsidy, like Siouxsie, will pay less compared to their old plans because the government will front some of the bill. Not every taxpayer is going to like the idea of their tax dollars subsidizing the cost of health care for sex workers.
MAXINE HOLLOWAY, SEX WORKER: As a society, we are paying for it anyway. We are just paying for it at the end instead of the beginning, and we're paying for it in a way where people still get sick and they still die.
(SHOUTING) SEGALL: Regardless of the politics, nothing's stopping their party.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: OK, Laurie Segall is here. It's an amazing story.
These ladies were celebrating, but this has to be a bit controversial, right?
SEGALL: Absolutely. Many folks don't want tax dollars going to this kind of thing. They've been clear about that. But as these women say -- you heard them say it -- it's their human right. As Maxine Holloway said in that piece, people are paying for it in the end and not the beginning.
LEMON: A Healthy Hose Party?
SEGALL: A Healthy Hose Party, Don.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Well, no, seriously, it's a segment of the population who couldn't get health care and this will allow it. This is a very serious story.
SEGALL: And particularly high risk, as well.
LEMON: All right.
Your stories are always quite interesting.
SEGALL: Thank you, Don.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: If I must say so myself.
Thank you, Laurie Segall.
SEGALL: Yes.
LEMON: We appreciate that.
