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Castro Victim Speaks; Shooting Sparks Debate over Arming TSA; Dolphins Bullying Claims; Skydiving Planes Collide

Aired November 04, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's called a virgin tax. NFL rookies shelling out big bucks, all part of a hazing ritual. But in one locker room, did it go too far, sending one player over the edge?

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

Police missing the alleged LAX gunman by minutes. You will hear from his roommate.

Mid-air scare. Two planes collide, but every passenger survives, thanks to what they wore on their backs.

Plus --

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BALDWIN: Plus, Kanye West scorched the Confederate flag, but will his young white fans imitate the rapper?

And --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK?

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BALDWIN: A new drug reverses overdoses, including this woman's brush with death, all caught on video.

And here we go. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Monday.

You know, more than a decade, she was held captive, along with two other women, enduring just absolute unspeakable torture in the home of Ariel Castro. Now, Michelle Knight is sharing some of the startling details about her time inside that home in Cleveland, sitting down for an incredibly emotional interview with Dr. Phil. But before we play a clip, I have to warn you, what you're about to hear from Michelle Knight is pretty disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "THE DR. PHIL SHOW": So he gets you in this room. What did he tie you up with?

MICHELLE KNIGHT, CLEVELAND KIDNAP VICTIM: One of those orange extension cords. I was tied up like a fish, an ornament on the wall. You know, that's the only way I can describe it. I was hanging like this. My feet and I was tied by my neck and my arms with the extension cord going like that.

MCGRAW: Oh, my God. So he tied your hands and feet, and also around your neck and hung you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh. In August, Castro was sentenced to life in prison plus 1,000 years after pleading guilty to 937 counts, including murder and kidnapping. A month later, he committed suicide in his prison cell.

Martin Savidge was all over this story from the very beginning in Cleveland, joins me now in studio.

And there really aren't words, I feel like, to put to what we just saw. And that was just one clip of, I'm sure is an incredible and emotional and stunning interview with Dr. Phil. Why is she talking?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, that's a good question. I think the reason that she's speaking out now is that clearly she has reached a point in her recovery that she's comfortable in talking about these details. She's spoken out before. We know that. That very dramatic showdown in the sentencing in the courtroom there -

BALDWIN: Yes.

SAVIDGE: Where she confronts Ariel Castro.

BALDWIN: Her tiny frame and her mighty words.

SAVIDGE: Yes. A petite woman. Exactly.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SAVIDGE: Exactly. I was in that courtroom and you were so caught up by it. So, you know, this was a woman who has spoken out. But to hear those details, and even though they were in a police report, I -- you know, I struggle to find the word - I was just impacted by them. I was shocked. I was horrified. I was chilled by it all. And it's amazing when you hear her speak. So I guess she's speaking out now because for her the time is right.

BALDWIN: And even just seeing her, you and I were remarking watching that clip, just almost, you know, sitting with her legs up close on that sofa, just her body language, I think it's pretty powerful.

Also, though, when you see Dr. Phil and the cutaways of his face, I understand he -- he has said - I mean he's talked to a lot of people who have endured a lot of trauma.

SAVIDGE: Sure. Uh-huh.

BALDWIN: And this really left an impression on him.

SAVIDGE: Yes, that's what he says. He told that to "The Cleveland Plain Dealer," that perhaps of all the people he's spoken to, this young woman has been the most impactful. Said -- he said changed his life. And that's very easy to understand because I've been around Michelle, I've been in her presence, and there is something about her, of course, no doubt, it's the fact that she survived what was just absolute hell on earth, but she is so different. She is smiling. She will engage you. She talks to you. She is in every way uplifting and inspiring because you know in the back of your mind this young girl has been through the worst that life could possibly deliver.

BALDWIN: She lived through the hell. Amanda Berry lived through the hell.

SAVIDGE: Right.

BALDWIN: Her child. Gina DeJesus. Where are those two women?

SAVIDGE: Well, they're recovering as well. Keep in mind, of course, they're much younger. You know, Michelle Knight's 32. They're almost a decade younger. And as a result, they're sort of reconnecting with their friends and they're reconnecting with their families. So for those young women, I'm not saying it's any easier, it's just that they've taken a different path and they're not ben as outspoken. They're all working on the book. That book is being handled by one of the, well, most powerful author representatives in Washington, D.C., who's represented the likes of the Clintons. So it looks like that they are ready to tell this story in a very big way.

BALDWIN: That will be quite a read.

SAVIDGE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Martin Savidge, thank you very much.

SAVIDGE: You bet.

BALDWIN: And we should tell you that Anderson Cooper sat down with and spoke with Dr. Phil about this exclusive interview with Michelle Knight. So watch that interview tonight on "AC 360" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Police just missed him by mere minutes. As investigators trying to piece together Friday's shooting at the L.A. International Airport, we are now today learning new details about the suspect and a possible motive here. Prompted by a warning from Paul Ciancia's family in New Jersey, police went to the alleged L.A.X. gunman's apartment the morning of the shooting. His family had frantically called police after text message after text message from Ciancia suggested something bad would happen. But the warning came just a little too late. Ciancia had left for L.A.X. about 45 minutes earlier. Meanwhile, one woman who knows this alleged gunman and his three roommates says he was plotting his crime days before the rampage.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He asked one of the roommates if he could have a ride to the airport. He said that --

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why did he need a ride?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he was going back home. Either that his dad was kind of sick and that he had to deal with some family issues.

MARQUEZ: Did anyone ever see a ticket or -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. He also didn't mention what day he had to leave. That morning, yes, he doesn't knock, just opens the door and says, I need to leave. Can you take me now?

MARQUEZ: Did he ever express any hatred toward the government or toward the TSA.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the NSA findings that came out, you know, this year that he was very upset about it and he also thought that TSA abused their power.

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BALDWIN: And CNN has confirmed that this photo that is making its rounds online is legitimate. It shows Ciancia was not wearing any sort of special protective clothing when he was shot. He is still listed in critical condition at UCLA Medical Center.

And the L.A. County coroner has confirmed TSA worker Gerardo Hernandez died as a result of multiple gunshot wounds. He is the first TSA official to die in the line of duty since the agency was created in 2001.

And in the frantic moments after Gerardo Hernandez was shot and killed, airport police, they reacted very quickly. They were 60 seconds behind Ciancia, but could that reaction time have been quicker? Could armed TSA agents have prevented something as horrendous as what played out at terminal three on Friday. Attorney General Eric Holder says this morning they will need to reassess after this investigation is complete.

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ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, the investigation's obviously underway, and a part of that investigation will be a review of the security measures that were in place. Not only at L.A.X., but I think a review of the security arrangements that exist in other airports as well. The function of the TSA is to insure that people can board planes safely, take flights safely. The responsibility for protecting airport security is not a TSA function, but something that I think we need to certainly examine given what happened in Los Angeles. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's get some perspective here. Let me bring in former flight attendant and author Tiffany Hawk, joins me from Washington.

So, Tiffany, welcome to you.

TIFFANY HAWK, FORMER FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I wanted to just - you know, u understand the urge to react, and you understand the desire to protect people, innocent people at the airport. We just heard from Eric Holder. You say do not arm these TSA officers. Why?

HAWK: Right. I think everybody wants to feel safer at the airport. And the question is, is arming 40,000 to 50,000 baggage screeners going to make you feel safer? Some people might think that it would. I personally wouldn't. I'm not opposed to trained police that have been using weapons, having a bigger presence in the airport, but there's the problem of cost. Can airlines handle that cost? But also, when it comes to airline employees, they -- you don't know what's going to happen. People can get disgruntled, become unhinged. So to add that many more weapons to the screening process, it just brings up other problems.

As we've seen, at first they thought that it was a TSA agent who was trying to kill other TSA agents. So a lot of our problems aren't coming from terrorism. Yes, that's a huge concern.

BALDWIN: Sure.

HAWK: But so are neighbors and coworkers that have become unhinged, become unstable or disgruntled and I think an industry that has so much stress is not the place to add --

BALDWIN: And you would know as a former flight attendant. You point out in this piece, your husband is a pilot. You are all for, you know, security. Let me read this. This is part of your - this is part of your cnn.com opinion piece that really jumped out at me in this post- 9/11 era. You write, "I was never a fan of armed pilots, even in the nightmarish days after 9/11. Another flight attendant might have felt insured, but when I once walked into the cockpit of a 757 to find a pilot," you write, "with a gun resting on his lap, I was most decidedly rattled. I had met the guy before, had no reason to distrust him, but even the thought of an incident was enough to make me question my safety." Is it more, Tiffany, for you, is it about people or is it just about guns?

HAWK: Well, it's a little bit of both. When you're adding -- you can screen people, but you don't know what's going to happen later in their lives or in the work place. As we've seen, a lot of things do come from workers attacking their own coworkers in the work space. But also accidents. I mean when it comes to arming pilots, there's a whole different level, I think. Many people are for that. But we have seen just a few small accidents, which I think is really the best case scenario. But when a gun accidentally goes off in the cockpit, that's extremely dangerous to the whole airplane. So creating more weapons in a volatile environment already, I personally wouldn't feel safer. I would feel even less safe. But I think there are people that are going to differ, that think that you should arm all mall cops and all movie theater ushers and teachers and everything. That that's the answer.

BALDWIN: Right, it's just two different schools of thought. It's two different schools of thought, and we hear yours.

HAWK: Exactly. I think that's what it comes down to.

BALDWIN: Tiffany Hawk, thank you so much.

HAWK: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up, two skydiving planes collide. Amazingly, everyone onboard survived. I'll speak with one sky diver who nearly died in an accident on his own.

Plus, did a so-called virgin tax push one football player over the edge? In a world of millionaires, is this hazing? Is this bullying? Is what we're watching here in Miami unprecedented?

And, Blackberry's big announcement and big firing could tell us the future of the company. That's next.

You are watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: Blackberry abandons its search for a buyer. Company executives have decided to drop plans to sell the troubled smartphone empire. Today's news sent corporate stock a tumbling. But it's not all lost, apparently. Blackberry says instead of selling, it is picking up a $1 billion investment from majority shareholder Fairfax Financial. Blackberry's CEO Thorsten Heins is also stepping down. The company declined to explain exactly why it had a change of heart, but financial experts say it is possible that potential suitors either couldn't come up with the money or lost interest after examining Blackberry's books.

Time to talk about the NFL here because it is known to crack down hard on illegal hits -- we've talked about that -- and, you know, celebratory touchdowns. But now you can add alleged bullying to that list. Miami Dolphins lineman Richie Incognito is suspended indefinitely as the NFL investigates allegations of misconduct toward a fellow teammate. Dolphins rookie lineman Jonathan Martin left the team last week taking a quote/unquote "leave of absence."

The cause of this abrupt departure remained a mystery until yesterday. Martin's lawyer made formal allegations of player misconduct. And if you were keeping up with the reports here, multiple outlets began naming Incognito as the main culprit. One report indicates Martin was required to contribute $15,000 to veteran players for a trip to Vegas. It's a trip he actually didn't even go on himself. But Martin paid up because he feared the consequences. Incognito, meantime, took to Twitter blasting those reports tweeting, "shame on you for attaching my name to false speculation. I won't be holding my breath for an apology."

But hours later, the NFL took action and handed down that suspension. And Terence Moore, cnn.com sport contributor, is here with me.

And, boy, oh, boy, I think we have something unprecedented, it seems like, on our hands with regard to these players. But, first, I want to talk about Jonathan Martin, because from what I know about him, he's a smart guy.

TERENCE MOORE, CNN.COM SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

BALDWIN: He's a brainy guy. Stanford guy.

MOORE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Tell me more.

MOORE: Well, I mean, no question about that. He's very cerebral. He's also a guy who is not very comfortable in a crowd, from what I understand. He's a guy that's somewhat socially awkward. So a perfect target for this type of thing.

And, Brooke, let me add this. There are so many people out there who are saying that -- how can a 300-pound offensive lineman be bullied? And what they don't understand, you've got different types of bullying. You've got physical, you've got mental and emotional. And that's what's taken place here. You know, and you can see that he was a target that was an easy prey for a big bully like Incognito.

BALDWIN: How many years have you been covering sports?

MOORE: Forever.

BALDWIN: Forever. OK.

MOORE: And I want to add to that. You know I've covered the National Football League for 35 years. I covered those big boy, big bad Oakland Raiders back in the early 1980s. I have never seen anything close to this.

BALDWIN: Never.

MOORE: Never.

BALDWIN: We know -- you know that hazing is part of the culture. But, I mean, it is one thing to, I don't know, pick up water bottles, throw down for a bottle of (INAUDIBLE) at a restaurant. It is quite another, if these allegations are true, to plunk down $15,000 for some group of guys to go to Vegas.

MOORE: Well, but it goes beyond that. I mean this is beyond bullying. This is like harassment in the workplace times two or three. You've got this voice mail - there's a voice mail that's just been unearthed that's just shocking.

BALDWIN: We've heard the report, yes.

MOORE: You know, with racial tones in the voice mail, with death threats, with talking about his mother, things along these lines. And again, you've got to consider the individual that's involved here, a guy that's very sensitive. And I'll tell you, everybody's picking on Incognito, but you can't let his teammates off the hook either. His nickname in the locker room is "big weirdo," OK?

BALDWIN: OK.

MOORE: Justified or not, that's his nickname.

BALDWIN: Let me play this clip, just to broaden this out, talking about sport (ph) overall, "Hard Knocks," you heard of this?

MOORE: Sure.

BALDWIN: This HBO show. They take you behind the scenes, training camp for the NFL. So this is a clip. This is just something that happened to a rookie player with the Jets. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit him right up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He needs some flexal (ph), shaving cream.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't do that, boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go. There you go. There you go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Has a player ever walked off the job for hazing? I mean that seems sort of, you know, fairly innocuous compared to -

MOORE: I'll tell you something. Again, from covering those Raiders back in the early '80s -

BALDWIN: Yes.

MOORE: I saw worse than that.

BALDWIN: You did?

MOORE: It was Sodom and Gomorrah, OK. But the level that we're talking about here with this guy is beyond anything that I've ever heard of. But here's something else. No one is talking about who's to blame for this. And, obviously --

BALDWIN: Where are the coaches?

MOORE: Exactly.

BALDWIN: The coaches know.

MOORE: And, you know -

BALDWIN: Are they turning the - turning the other way?

MOORE: Well, they have to be. Plus, you've got to consider this. In the modern NFL, before these guys are drafted, they're dissected like 200 or 250 or 300-pound frogs, OK. So they know, the coaching staff and the Dolphins officials know -- had to know how sensitive Martin was. That's part one. Number two, there is no way in the world that they could not have known about these threatening text messages and let alone maybe perhaps the voice mail existed and the hazing that got out of control. So they should not be left off the hook here. They're nearly as responsible as Incognito.

BALDWIN: Questions are being asked. Investigation underway. Terence Moore, come back. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

MOORE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And what was supposed to be a jump for fun ends up being a jump for their lives, as these two planes, high up in the air carrying sky divers, collide, crash midair. Their amazing story of survival.

And I will talk live to one sky diver who survived a scare of his own. That's next.

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BALDWIN: This could have been a disaster. I mean under any other circumstances, it would have been a disaster. But 11 people, you have two pilots, nine passengers here, survived a midair collision at 12,000 feet. One of the pilots actually landed his damaged airplane, but the rest took parachutes. They pulled the chute. That included the pilot of plane number two, which broke apart and crashed. So these nine jumpers, they are described as veteran skydivers. So this was apparently some sort of maneuver clearly gone awry. With me now from Sacramento, California, Craig Stapleton. He is back on the show. He, too, is an experienced skydiver. He, too, survived his own brush with death.

So, Craig, nice to see you.

CRAIG STAPLETON, SKYDIVER: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: This collision happened Saturday. This is over Superior, Wisconsin. And you told us when you first heard about it, your first question was how many died? Was it tough for you to believe that everyone survived?

STAPLETON: It was really hard to believe. I expected at least, you know, a plane load, maybe both plane loads and pilots had died. So I was kind of worried about what the body count was going to be by the end of the night and I was surprised when I heard everybody walked away. It was pretty miraculous.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. I guess they were planning on pulling off some sort of big maneuver. You had two planes, you know, nine skydivers. Do you know what was supposed to happen, and then, obviously, what did happen?

STAPLETON: Normally, when they have a large group of jumpers and they have to use two aircraft, they fly the planes in formation, which means they're very close to each other, flying the same flight path at the same speed, at the same altitude so the jumpers can get out together and form a big group. And that's how you get large groups together. And the idea was to do one last jump for the night and get everybody together for one big jump.

BALDWIN: So typically, then, I guess, the planes would have to be flying pretty close to one another, right, for everyone to jump together and hold hands and clearly they came way too close. I guess -- go ahead. Go ahead.

STAPLETON: A little too close.

BALDWIN: Yes, a little bit. A little bit.

STAPLETON: Yes.

BALDWIN: And after one of the skydivers said, after he pulled his chute, he saw this airplane wreckage just falling all around him. Have you ever heard, in all your years, Craig, have you heard of anything this bizarre happen during a jump?

STAPLETON: Nope. This is the stuff that makes legends and it's real scary to hear that, you know, this can happen, but we're all mindful of planes - you know, skydivers have been hit with a single plane in the past. So to have two in the air like that and coming out of control, that's real scary.

BALDWIN: And are you still jumping after you landed on that tuft of hay or grass in the vineyard and miraculously survived yourself?

STAPLETON: I managed to make another 350 jumps this year, yes.

BALDWIN: Craig Stapleton, goodness. Thank you for coming back on. We appreciate you. Good luck there.

STAPLETON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now to this one. The Toronto mayor accused of smoking crack cocaine issues an apology, but stops short of coming clean.

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MAYOR ROB FORD, TORONTO: I'm not going to sit here and say I'm never going to drink again. That's not realistic. But I can't be --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything in moderation, Rob.

FORD: Everything in moderation is fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So has this controversy in Toronto affected the mayor's ratings? Surprising poll results coming up next.

And speaking of controversy, have you seen this picture? Ah, yes, Kanye West spotted wearing the confederate flag. I want you to be the judge on that and you will hear his explanation coming up.

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