Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Senate Hearing On Obamacare; Obama Tweaks "If You Like Your Plan"; Obama, Biden, Clintons Stumped For McAuliffe In Virginia Governor's Race; Marijuana Taxes, Secession Among Ballot Initiatives In Colorado Today; No Casualties In Mall Shooting Spree

Aired November 05, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All new this morning, President Obama tweaking his message. Remember his line, 'if you like your health plan, you can keep it'? Well, that's now being changed a bit.

And it is Election Day, from governors to mayors, high profile politics. And how today could even give us our first glimpse of the new presidential season and our 51st state.

Also --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were boom, boom, and then another boom, and then another, last boom right after that, right after the second one, and then glass, glass everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Shots fired inside a New Jersey mall. Shoppers run for cover as a 20-year-old gunman opens fire, but this time no one is hurt. NEWSROOM continues now.

Good morning. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello. Going on right now on Capitol Hill, a Senate hearing on the roll-out on Obamacare, there you see Tom Harkin of Iowa. He will be asking questions very soon of Marilyn Tavenner. You might remember her name. She's the administrator for Medicaid and Medicare, and that branch or organization once in charge of the Obamacare roll-out but no longer. And we'll continue to monitor her testimony. And if she says anything new and exciting, of course, we'll pass it along to you.

But let's talk about the president now and his tweaking of his message, a new spin. It's now been five weeks to the date since the roll-out of Obamacare, and its sputtering website hasn't been the only problem. After all, remember those reassurances that if you liked your plan, you wouldn't have to switch? For nearly four years, the president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Well, the president has a new spin. The White House is now tweaking that message. Our senior White House correspondent Brianna Keilar is in Washington with more on that. Good morning. Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Basically, in the face of learning that promise could not be kept ultimately and that it just wasn't as simple as that, we've heard from President Obama last night at an OSA event. That's his former campaign apparatus, which is now a non-profit advocacy group, which is working on Obamacare and promoting it. President Obama spoke in an OSA event, and here was the change that he made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: If you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law and you really liked that plan, what we said was you could keep it if it hasn't changed since the laws passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: If it hasn't changed since the law has passed. That was something he added last night, Carol. That was not on that initial promise that he made as he was touting Obamacare, and as you can imagine, Republicans have really seized on this. So it's obviously more complicated than the initial promise President Obama made.

The law said, Carol, when Obamacare was passed in 2010, it said that if a plan was in existence, it could be grandfathered in. However, if there was a significant change to it, which is something that is open to interpretation, then it would have to cease to exist. Essentially whatever the insurance company as it put in place a new plan, it would have to measure up to the current Obama care standards.

So you have White House officials who were saying, yes, but there were a lot of people who had these old plans and didn't realize that they weren't necessarily good plans, maybe they didn't cover hospitalization or maybe they exempted people for really the one condition they wanted insurance for.

But it's a big problem because you have people getting these cancellations of their plans. The people at the White House want to serve and they are complaining obviously. And so that's obviously a bad situation for the White House as they try to serve these people who are unhappy certainly with what this Obamacare plan is supposed to do for them.

Also, you know, the huge problem it really comes down to still is that the marketplace, this healthcare.gov isn't working. So when people get a cancellation, they can't then turn and see what an alternative might be, and White House officials will admit that that's very difficult for them to deal with. COSTELLO: All right, Brianna Keilar reporting live from the White House. Well, there's another Senate committee on the Obamacare roll- out. Lisa Desjardins is covering that for us. What more could we possibly learn, Lisa?

LISA DESJARDINS, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER (via telephone): Well, Carol, this is actually an interesting hearing for a couple of reasons. One, Democrats are leading it, but the Democrat in charge is a big health care supporter who is not happy. That's Tom Harkin. You see him right there of Iowa. He's already said that Americans deserve better.

But this is the first time we have heard from any Obama administrative official here in Congress since we learned that the enrollment numbers are just a trickle and since we've gotten information from the House Oversight Committee, through HHS that the enrollment numbers are maybe in the hundreds.

They said they're not releasing any numbers publicly because the system isn't working and the numbers are not reliable. But this is a first hearing we will have with an official after we have a clue of where the numbers may be. So that's going to be something to watch very closely and the Republican on this committee, Carol, Lamar Alexander, he's called for the resignation of our House secretary. So expect for him to be very sharp with his questions this morning.

COSTELLO: Will we learn of any solutions, you know, at the end of this hearing?

DESJARDINS: I would expect Ms. Tavenner to bring up many of the same solutions that they've been talking about stressing that they've brought more help, that they trying to increase capacity. Perhaps we'll learn more about the problems with Verizon. Unclear, I know they'll get a lot of questions about that for sure.

COSTELLO: All right, Lisa Desjardins, you continue following that. We'll get back to you. Thanks so much.

It is Election Day across the nation as Americans cast votes in state elections that could impact the country's political future, among them, the governor's race in Virginia where Democrat Terry McAuliffe appears headed for victory in a bitter and partisan against Republican Ken Cuccinelli. The race is drawing some political heavyweights in the closing days.

CNN political director, Mark Preston, joins me now to talk about that and more. Good morning, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So McAuliffe called on his old friends, Bill and Hillary Clinton to help make the case. President Obama also joined and none of them mentioned Obamacare. Why is that?

PRESTON: Well, it's interesting to note that we saw Joe Biden in Virginia yesterday as well campaigning on behalf of Terry McAuliffe. Obama's key initiative is very conversational. The condition is very much split on it and down the middle at this point, give it a point here or there either way.

And here in Virginia, you're split. You have different geographic parts of state. Some people are for it, some people are against it. But I have to tell you in many ways when we look at the outcome of this election tomorrow and if we are to believe the polls and McAuliffe is expected to win, we're going to have to look at Obamacare as one of the reasons why he might have won.

And the reason being the 16 days of the federal government shutdown was due in part because the Republicans in the building right behind me tied that to Obamacare. Now Ken Cuccinelli who is the republican attorney general who is running is very much a strident opponent of Obama care. But at the same time, many of his want to be constituents depend upon the federal government.

COSTELLO: Aren't you discounting women voters in Virginia because aren't they really deciding this race and they don't care for Ken Cuccinelli because of his social views?

PRESTON: That's correct. Again, when we go back and we dissect what happened in this race that's going to be one of the major reasons as well, how did he do with women voters. We know Terry McAuliffe is up about 12 points with women voters. That is a big margin. But there are many factors. We look at why Ken Cuccinelli, if he does lose.

If he does lose one of the reasons is going to be the government shutdown. And that's because it was tied to Obamacare. And now Ken Cuccinelli, Carol, had he come out and said that he opposed the government shutdown and opposed Obamacare, but again manufacturers would have been bet are off. But again, one of the many factors in this race in Virginia.

COSTELLO: OK, we'll continue to watch. Mark Preston reporting live from Washington from Virginia to Colorado, CNN we're covering all the election angles for you today with our correspondents around the country. Let's start in Mendham (ph), New Jersey. That's where we find Erin McPike. Good morning, Erin.

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, there's a lot more activity outside this polling station at the fire station where Chris Christie will vote really any minute now. We're starting to see his aides gather here for his arrival. And also you might see in the background CNN's Jake Tapper. He's here for an exclusive interview with Chris Christie, and that will be airing in the 4:00 hour.

And there's all of this activity because we're looking at Chris Christie very likely launching a national campaign for president in the next few years. That's why he's looking for a blowout win tonight. He wants to say that it's a model for the national Republican Party which has obviously been having problems like they are in Virginia where Peter Hamby is covering that race -- Peter.

PETER HAMBY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Erin. I'm in McLean, Virginia, where Democrat Terry McAuliffe voted here just a couple of hours ago, as Mark Preston mentioned. He is expected to win by mid to high single digits here in Virginia against Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli. As Mark mentioned, Cuccinelli has been attacked by Democrats as an out of the mainstream social conservative. This is expected to be a low turnout election as it often is in nonpresidential years. Cuccinelli is trying to rally the base here hoping for a miracle. He's tapped Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, a number of popular Republicans to campaign for him.

He says this race is a referendum on Obamacare. But Democrats outside groups have poured tons of money into this race, trying to define Cuccinelli as anti-women. And according to the polls, it appears to be working. McAuliffe has a very, very high lead among women voters, and that's very crucial in this suburban state that's trend (ph) over Democrat over the last decade. For more on the New York mayor's race, let's go to Deb Feyerick.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Peter. Well, the Republican candidate for mayor has said he is going to shock New York City with the come-from-behind victory. Underdog Joe Lhota back nearly 40 points from front-runner, Democrat, Bill De Blasio. Now De Blasio is a former staffer for both Bill and Hillary Clinton. He is a proud progressive and he is vowing to close the gap between the rich and poor.

He is planning on doing that immediately by raising taxes on the rich to help educated low income children. Political insiders say the game changer for De Blasio really has been his biracial family active on the campaign trail. His wife and kids really resonated with voters in both the black and Latino communities.

Meantime, Wall Street businessman Joe Lhota, he once served as budget director for Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He is no nonsense and he shares his tough-on crime-stance. De Blasio, by the way, will be the first Democratic mayor in more than two decades if he wins in what some are predicting will be a landslide. That's kind of surprising given that the city is a majority of Democratic voters -- Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Deborah. I'm Ana Cabrera, here in Colorado where we're watching a variety of different issues on the Colorado ballot including taxes on the marijuana sales. We're also watching education funding bill. There's also an issue about state secession. That's one that's captured interest all around the country. Eleven counties in Northern Colorado, the rural part of our state, are threatening to secede and will vote today on an initiative that would break away from the state of Colorado to form a new state.

Now this all spurred after the last legislative session at the state capitol where Democrats have the majority in both the House and the Senate, as well as the governor's office. And the supporters of this initiative to break away from the state say they're very angry over the new gun control legislation, also some new standards with renewable energy and increasing their electricity costs. They say these are the issues that are not only threatening their rural lifestyle, but they're rural livelihood. And they want to send a message to both the state Congress as well as the federal Congress that this is not OK. And so while the secession movement isn't likely to become a reality, it certainly is an example of the growing political and culture divides that we're seeing not only here, but all across the country.

COSTELLO: All right, Ana Cabrera, Deborah Feyerick, Peter Hamby and Erin McPike, thanks to all of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a shooting at a packed mall in New Jersey, Poppy Harlow is there -- Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is right. We are going to tell you about a nightmare unfolding here in the middle of New Jersey on a seemingly quiet Monday night. What a troubled 20-year-old did that ended up in taking his own life?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Yet another young man with a gun opens fire in a crowded place. His rampage came to a grim end at a New Jersey mall, began with an explosion of gunfire late last night as the West Filed Garden State Plaza mall was closing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY JIMINEZ, WITNESS: There were boom, and another boom, and a last boom right after that, right after the second one and then glass, glass everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Glass but no casualties despite a thick crowd of shoppers and mall employees. Police now say there is a bizarre possibility the shooter may not have wanted to hurt anyone, instead he may have wanted to kill himself. With the discovery of his body, it appears he accomplished that although by his own hand. Poppy Harlow joins us live from Paramus, New Jersey. Good morning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. It's incredibly troubling and hard to believe that more people were not killed in this insurance department. The shooter is the only one who died. He's only 20 years old. His named is Richard Shoop and he entered this mall at 9:20 p.m. last night firing six rounds with what police say is a rifle made to look like an AK-47.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW (voice-over): Chaos at a shopping center in New Jersey overnight.

JOHN MOLINELLI, BERGEN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: We heard four gunshots and everybody was scared. Everybody was panicked. So we took everybody -- we went in the back of the store, locked ourselves in with 13 people in total including me. HARLOW: Hundreds of police, SWAT, and emergency teams swarmed the South Westfield Garden State Plaza Mall in search of a gunman who authorities believed fired six rounds just before closing time. The suspected gunman, 20-year-old Richard Shoop was discovered dead just after 3:00 a.m., his body found lying in a remote area of the mall. Authorities say he had a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

MOLINELLI: Originally from Washington Township, New Jersey, now living in Teaneck, New Jersey. He's 20 years old. His body was discovered at 3:20 a.m. this morning just about an hour ago with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head area. He himself went to the area where he did this. It was a difficult area of the mall, behind some construction.

HARLOW: No one else was injured in the shooting. Surveillance video showed the gunman aimed at security cameras.

LEO ACEVEDO, WITNESS: He was actually wearing a red and black motorcycle helmet. The visor was actually lifted up so I was actually able to see his face. He was a white male. He was wearing a full leather suit. He wasn't really aiming at anything. He had the gun in his hand aimlessly and he was walking a little bit past the Apple store. He wasn't yelling. He didn't seem angered. He was kind of just walking.

HARLOW: Police say Shoop was carrying a rifle modified to look like an AK-47 stolen from his brother.

MOLINELLI: It would look like an AK-47, but it is not an AK-47. It's where you take the handgun and modify it to make it look like something it is not, but it is a lawful gun owned by the brother.

HARLOW: Police say Shoop has no history of mental illness, but say he abused drugs.

MOLINELLI: We do believe that the main motive for what he did tonight was suicide, whether self-inflicted or God forbid suicide by cop, which no one ever wants to see. It looked like that was his motive. We believe that the main motive for what he did was suicide, whether self-inflicted or suicide by cop, which no one ever likes to see. Based on what we know, it did not appear that he entered the mall to shoot anyone. And I say that only because it appears that he had ample opportunity to do that and chose not to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: And again that's key here. The gunman entered, shot six rounds, but didn't shoot at anyone even those in close proximity. He shot towards the ceiling and then eventually killed himself. What we also know is that police say it was actually the gunman's brother who heard about this on the radio last night about an hour after this started, called authorities and said, I think my brother may be involved in all of this.

And it turns out that the gun was stolen from his brother, still many, many more questions, but just so troubling to see something like this happening. Again, how terrifying for all the people that poured out of this mall last night after hours and hours of not knowing where the gunman might be.

COSTELLO: Poppy Harlow reporting live. President Obama is busy spinning and will likely spinning today. Understandable since many Americans are upset that he promised they could keep their insurance plans despite Obamacare. Not true. Last night the president tweaked his message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law and you really like that plan, what we said was, you could keep it if it hasn't changed since the laws passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wolf Blitzer is here now to kind of parse things out for us. That statement that the president just said is more accurate, but it's a little confusing to understand when you first hear it. You've got to listen to it like 12 times to know exactly what he's talking about.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": That final clause which it, if it hasn't changed since the law was passed, he didn't say that so many times when he was repeatedly saying that when he was trying to get the measure passed through Congress. He said if you liked your health care plan, you could keep your health care plan period.

There wasn't this conditional clause if it changed since the law was passed. And there was not a widespread notion that there was a grandfather clause in there that if the insurance companies made tweaks or changes, then that insurance policy was going to go away. He was clear and very blunt. Much more precise way of saying it during the campaign for the passage of the legislation should have been if you like your plan, you might be able to keep your plan.

On the other hand, you might lose your hand, but you might get a better plan at even a cheaper rate if this legislation goes through. That might not necessarily be as catchy as if you like your plan, you can keep your plan period. Now a lot of these people -- he says it's 5 percent of the American public, that's 15 million people or so.

Some of them will have their original health insurance. But a lot of them will be forced to get new health insurance over the next several weeks if they want to be insured. And some will get a better plan. Some of them will not only get a better plan, but pay smaller premiums every month because the government will subsidize some of the premiums for low income earners.

But there will be plenty of folks out there who will believe they're not getting a better plan and they will be forced to pay more when all is said and done. It's not necessarily a clean sweep, if you will. COSTELLO: Let me ask you this. The president's approval rating is, what, 42 percent. It's really low. I haven't heard his whole speech from last night. But perhaps the voters would be more forgiving if the president said, look, I'm sorry I misled you but I'm going to tell you the truth right now, here's what it is. Wouldn't that have been more helpful?

BLITZER: Voters are very forgiving in the United States and if someone makes a mistake and they say, you know what, here is what I should have said and I ask you to forgive me if you will, people are ready to forgive. The president doesn't say that. He's now tweaked his message. Last week on October 30th, he said, if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period. Last week he said for the vast majority of the people that have health insurance, you can keep it.

For the fewer than 5 percent of the Americans who buy insurance on their own, you will be getting a better deal. He promises them they will be getting a better deal. But even there, a lot of these folks don't believe they're getting a better deal. They think they're getting a worse deal --

COSTELLO: And I don't think he made a mistake, they think he misled the American public. And it certainly sounds that way when you hear what he said in the past.

BLITZER: Right. He was very clear. If it you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period. And he also said, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period. A lot of people like their doctors. But when they're forced to get new plans, those doctors might not be in the new plan and they won't be able to keep the doctors.

And if you go to a doctor and you like him a lot and all of the sudden you're forced to get a new plan, which might be a better plan, might have more benefits, lower deductible, smaller copays for whatever, if your doctor is not in that system, you're going to be upset about that because the president told you if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor period.

Now having said that, even if Obamacare would not have been the law of the land -- and it is the laugh the land, ratified by the United States Supreme Court -- over the years health insurance companies were making changes all the time, employers were making changes for their employees over the time forcing people to change their plans, forcing people to lose their doctors.

That was part of the system for as long as we've been working, we all know that. So it's not exactly new, but the president was very forceful and bold and direct in making these assertions and now it's coming back to haunt him.

COSTELLO: I'm sure you'll be talking a lot more about in this afternoon.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a voicemail message reportedly filled it threats -- actually it was filled with threats and racial slurs now involving two Miami Dolphin players. We'll talk more about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)