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At Least 1,200 People Believed Dead; 11 Bikers Indicted for Alleged Gang Assault; Utah Doctor Convicted of Wife's Murder; Storm Chasers Capture Typhoon's Wrath; FDA Banning Trans Fats; U.S./Iran Nuclear Talks; Fouad Ajami Says Iran Deal Horrible Idea

Aired November 09, 2013 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone, to our live news coverage. I'm Don Lemon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

It is 6:00 Sunday morning in the Philippines. Sunrise breaking on a national tragedy, and I'm talking about the utter devastation caused by an enormous Pacific typhoon.

The storm smashed into the Philippine Islands with a fury, tearing roofs from buildings, ripping trees from the ground, and cutting off hundreds of thousands of people from communications and any ability to move to safety.

The people of the Philippines are not only dealing with the cleanup and repair but the human cost is immense. Early estimates put the death toll at more than 1,200 people and that's just in two coastal provinces. That number will likely rise considerably as casualty reports come in from rural areas. About 350,000 people are without homes today because of that storm.

And we have some remarkable images that we want to share with you, they are emerging from the Philippines, many from right in the heart of the destruction.

Storm chaser James Reynolds captured video of the CNN crew braving the elements to bring people to safety in the hard-hit coastal city of Tacloban.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, one more. Any more in there, Josh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, two more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two more. One more?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we got everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good, everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I can feel electricity in the water, guys, my legs are tingling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, I spoke with James Reynolds as he described to people who had never lived or experienced a storm like this what it was like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES REYNOLDS, STORM CHASER (via telephone): It was just absolute screaming mayhem, Don. The winds were so ferocious. It was like a blinding, deafening whiteout. Huge chunks of debris were hitting the concrete building we were in. You could feel the building shake and the water was just entering every corner of the building, flowing down the stairs and the hotel like a waterfall.

And then the storm surge came and it was very, very rapidly rising, within minutes the entire first floor of the hotel was swamped and unfortunately ran in to a captain there, they didn't have time to get out of their rooms, escape to the higher floors to safety, and it was a really desperate situation, Don.

LEMON: As we're looking, we're looking at people being rescued it looks like on eater rafts or mattresses or cardboard, I'm not exactly sure.

But in the video of the rescue, CNN producer Tim Schwartz and CNN international anchor Andrew Stevens helped pull people to safety and you shot the video. Walk us through what is happening in this video.

REYNOLDS: Yes, absolutely. It came to our attention that one family was trapped in one of the hotel rooms. They couldn't get out somehow and heard a woman screaming desperately and smashing the glass windows with her fists in a desperate attempt to get out and it was clear that they it was basically a life-or-death situation.

One of my colleagues Josh Morgan and he went out there trying to fish another colleague actually injured himself, but the team among us managed to get some sort of flotation device, a mattress I think, something to float to get that family out which includes some elderly and infirm people who on not get out by themselves and with those flotation devices we managed to put them on and get them to safety, Don.

LEMON: It's just unbelievable. So, I hear you guys talking there, you're talking about electricity in the water. When it's that much water, I would imagine it's probably a good thing that there is no electricity in the town because that would be another disaster, correct?

REYNOLDS: Yes, absolutely. And the communications are out right now, but the floodwaters were exceedingly dangerous, you know, and electrocution was a threat at the height of the storm. One of my colleagues mark actually injured himself very severely, and at the height of the storm it was an extremely hazardous situation there.

LEMON: So, this storm could go down as one of the strongest storms to hit land ever. You've chased a lot of storms. How was this one different? Was it the intensity? Was it the wind? Was it the water?

REYNOLDS: Don, the line's not so good, so I didn't fully hear your question. But in terms of the strength of the storm, it was one of the most severe land falling tropical cyclones in recorded history anywhere in the world. That puts it in perspective and that's not an exaggeration. This was the top end of the strength of these storms that was physically possible and to hit a country like the Philippines where the infrastructure is not as good as compared to the other countries in the region, it's a double whammy of perfect ingredients of a massive disaster that is unfolding, Don.

LEMON: Yes, where are you off to next? Are you staying put? Or are you going to continue to move around?

REYNOLDS: I am miraculously managed to get on a military flight to Cebu City, all my reporting gear has either sustained major damage and has to be left behind, so I'm going to try to get to Hong Kong to get some of the images that I took at the height of the storm and the aftermath so people can see what happened in this devastating storm, Don.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Devastating, you can't really say how devastating those pictures. And, you know, the pictures that we're seeing on the ground show the destruction that Super Typhoon Haiyan left behind but its massive strength is striking from space. It's a killer storm as seen from space.

NASA astronaut Karen Nyberg tweeted the picture on Saturday as they passed over Southeast Asia on board the International Space Station. You can see that even in orbit, even in orbit, about 240 miles above the Earth, Haiyan's clouds still filled nearly the entire frame of that photograph.

So, aid agencies are mobilizing to help the victims of the typhoon and to find out how you can help go to CNN.com/Impact, CNN.com/Impact.

We're not going to go far away from that story. We'll continue to update you on the super typhoon.

In the meantime, security breach at a major airport. A man makes it all the way onto a plane before he is caught. That story is next.

And they increase the shelf life of food but they decrease the lifespan of humans. But they taste so good. We're talking about trans fats and the FDA. They want to ban them from some of our favorite foods.

We're going to give you the skinny on what foods to stay away from later this hour. Unless you like trans fats, then eat them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

A man breached security at Seattle's airport last night and even made it onto a plane. He eventually made it onto the tarmac and punched an empty plane window to get inside before TSA officers chased him down. A rep for the airport says no one was hurt and no flights were delayed, but drugs may have been involved. That's what they believe.

Eleven bikers have been indicted for allegedly beating the driver of an SUV. An undercover detective is included charged with gang assault. He was off duty that day but prosecutors say he can be seen hitting the SUV. You've probably seen the video.

The driver allegedly bumped one motorcyclist and hit two more when he tried to drive away. He said he was cut off and his family's lives were in danger. He has not been charged.

A Utah doctor convicted of drugging his wife and then drowning her in a bathtub could spend the rest of his life in prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURT CLERK: As to count one, murder, guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Martin MacNeill remains stone-faced when the guilty verdict was read early this morning. But behind him an outburst of emotion filled the courtroom. The star witness in the 22-day trial were MacNeill's four daughters who testified against him. One of them said she was happy with the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXIS SOMERS, MACNEILL'S DAUGHTER: So happy he can't hurt anyone else. We miss our mom. We'll never get her back. But that courtroom was full of so many people who loved her. I looked around, and it was full of everyone who loved my mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Sentencing of Martin MacNeill, early January, we'll carry it here on CNN.

Senator Ted Cruz visited Jay Leno last night, cowboy boots and all. Leno said the senator who made his name with the marathon speech against Obamacare is gaining a reputation for being controversial even abrasive, but Cruz says he's just trying to do his job and some people may not like that.

Here's what he had to say about Congress' latest approval rating --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, COMEDIAN: Congressional approval is at 12 percent. SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I'm amazed it's that high.

LENO: You're amazed it's that high.

I mean, Americans are sick of this brinksmanship, don't you think?

CRUZ: I think Americans are deeply frustrated that Washington is broken. And I think it's a bipartisan problem. I mean, I think the biggest divide we have is not between Republicans and Democrats. It is between entrenched politicians in both parties and Washington and the American people.

LENO: Well, sure, but --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Senator Ted Cruz also defended his dad who recently made comments against same-sex marriage. Cruz said people should pick on him and not his father who is his hero.

You're about to hear about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy here on CNN. The 50th anniversary of that world-changing day is coming up very soon.

And did you know that our own secretary of state is one of those guys who doesn't believe the official government conclusion about who was responsible for JFK's death?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: Where do you come down on the conspiracy theories?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: To this day, I have serious doubts that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

BROKAW: Really?

KERRY: I certainly have doubts that he was -- that he was motivated by himself. I'm not sure if anybody else was involved. I don't go down that road with respect to the grassy knoll theory and all that. But I have serious questions whether they got to the bottom of Lee Harvey Oswald's time and influence from Russia and Cuba.

BROKAW: And what about the CIA? There are some who believe --

KERRY: I've never gone there. No, I don't believe that.

BROKAW: But you think the Russians and Cubans may have had something to do with it?

KERRY: I think he was inspired somewhere by something and I don't know what or -- I can't pin anything down on that, Tom. And I never spent a lot of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So, wherever you fall in the conspiracy spectrum, make sure you watch our CNN original film "The Assassination of President Kennedy." "The Assassination of President Kennedy" premieres Thursday night 9:00 Eastern, make sure you tune in. Set your DVR as well. Again, Thursday 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN, "The Assassination of President Kennedy."

A little girl starved to death, then her body burned. Her parents now facing charges and the head of child services admitting the system failed the child. We're getting some answers about this disturbing story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The details surrounding the case of 10-year-old Emani Moss almost too hard to hear, starved to death, burned and found dead in a trash can and now allegations that the abuse may have been going on for some time now and that's according to CNN affiliate WSB.

Her case includes six previous contacts or complaints with the Georgia Department of Family and Child Services dating pack to 2003. The most recent complaint happened just two months before her death. The father and stepmother were in court on Friday facing charges of felony murder, first-degree cruelty to children and concealing a body.

I want to bring in now human behavior expert, Dr. Wendy Walsh in Los Angeles and criminal defense attorney Holly Hughes in Atlanta. It's just awful, isn't it?

You know, holly, the DCFS or DFCS director admits that there have been agency failures in this case, the system failing this little girl.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And given the fact this latest report, don, came in two months before this little girl was starved to death and subsequently burned in a metal trash can in her apartment complex. And they closed it without further investigation because they said we couldn't find a good address.

Given the fact that this child had been checked on six prior times, that is all the more reason the agency should have stepped up and worked additionally hard to find that address. This little girl was enrolled in school. Go to the school and check out where it is that the current address is listed.

This is inexcusable behavior, Don. And unless something is done to step up how these investigations are run, we are going to see more children suffer.

LEMON: Wendy, you know, the couple charged here allegedly tried to cover up Emani's death. What goes through a person's head to make a decision like this?

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: Well, they're only thinking about themselves at this point, Don. But, you know, we've talked in past weeks about how one of the most dangerous places for a child to live is in a home with a non-biologically related male. Well, this little girl was with her father, but there's a reason why historic fairy tales and Disney movies talk about evil stepmothers, too, because when the parent doesn't have a connection to the child there's a risk that they won't have the cellular empathy you need to keep the child safe.

And going back to what Holly said, let's not just blame the Department of Children and Family Services, let's talk about a school system. If the child is truant, they need to check up. The medical doctors, dental records, all the professionals who may have had contact with this family need to raise red flags when they see them.

LEMON: Can we go back, too, because, Wendy, when we talked about that non-biological thing, people go insane, right? Why is it so hard for people to get that through their heads?

WALSH: Well, because two things, one there are lots of great stepparents out there of both genders, but secondly adults don't like to be inconvenienced, you know, I once said to a divorce attorney, have you ever thought of leaving the kids in a stable home and making the parents switch every single week, and this attorney said it happened once and the parents only lasted a couple months and yet we expect children to be shuffled around.

LEMON: Yes, amen. Let's move on.

I want to talk about this subject because I've been getting a lot of feedback about it online and people say why aren't you covering it? This will be the fourth time I've covered it.

Let's talk about police in Michigan investigating whether a 19-year- old woman who was shot and killed on the front porch of the home was simply looking for help after a car crash. The homeowner told police that the shotgun accidentally discharge, striking the woman in the face.

So, do you expect charges to be brought against this homeowner, Holly?

HUGHES: Absolutely, Don. Shotgun -- this is such a fallacy. When I hear the gun accidentally went off, it's crap, Don, guns don't accidentally discharge especially not shotguns.

What the police are doing right now I guarantee it, they are looking at the trigger pull on that particular model to see how much pressure has to be applied for that gun to go off. They don't go off by themselves.

At the very least, if he was terrified enough to answer the door with a gun in his hand, why open the door, Don? Why not just holler through the door, what can I do? You need help? I'll call 911 for you.

This does not sound right in any universe, and at the very least if we don't see a murder, we need to see a negligent homicide, a manslaughter, something coming out of this, Don. LEMON: But, Holly, listen, there are -- there's some reporting that's not exactly accurate in this case because the accident happened, like, 1:00 in the morning. The car accident, right? She was in a car accident.

HUGHES: Exactly, correct.

LEMON: And then by the time she was shot, this was, like, 3:00, almost 4:00 in the morning, so investigators want to know, you know, what went on in those hours, the two or three or almost four hours.

HUGHES: It's an important question.

LEMON: And then they said -- and also -- and also, they said she was shot in the back of the head. She was not. She was shot in the face.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: She was facing him. She wasn't trying to turn away when she was shot. Go ahead.

HUGHES: But it is an important question what happened in those intervening two hours, but, Don, it's a little bit irrelevant. Yes, we want to fill in the story, but what happened during the face-to- face exchange at that moment.

LEMON: Right.

HUGHES: Why did you have a shotgun in your hand? Why was it pointed at her face? Is there any evidence whatsoever -- even though some of the reports have been inconsistent, I have not heard and you can back me up on this that the young lady had a weapon of any kind.

LEMON: Right.

HUGHES: That she uttered any kind of threat, I haven't heard any of that.

So what she did in the prior two hours is irrelevant to what the homeowner did at the time he opened his door to her holding a shotgun aimed at her face.

LEMON: I'm glad you answered that. Wendy, why answer the door with a gun if you've been that fearful or there have been break-ins or whatever, why even go to the door?

WALSH: Well, because some people respond to feelings of fear with aggression. In other words, they put on a great offense when they're feeling defensive.

And, Don, this reminds me of a story we did a couple on Jane Velez Mitchell, on HLN, about a young man, a college football player -- same thing accident, she was disoriented, he went to somebody's door, she was so afraid she called the police, the police came and shot him.

LEMON: Right. WALSH: So, I'm going to have to wave this flag because you haven't, Don, there's a little racism going on here, too, potentially. People tend to -- if they're fear-based, they tend to fear things that are different from them and if it's the middle of the night and they own a gun.

The big question I have is, do you think more people with fear-based thinking tend to purchase guns. Good question?

LEMON: That is a great question. Making us think. I like that.

Thank you, Wendy. Thank you, Holly. Appreciate it.

WALSH: All right.

HUGHES: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: A super typhoon leaves a trail of death and destruction in the Philippines. The images and the sounds from the storm zone, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eric Stackpole and David Lang are two young entrepreneurs looking to become the next Jacques Cousteau.

ERIC STACKPOLE, OPENROV: Jacques Cousteau changed the way ocean exploration was done.

DAVID LANG, OPENROV: He invited people to explore along with him. So for us, it's the same thing.

BALDWIN: They're working on an underwater robotic submarine that anyone can own and use. Priced at less than $1,000, it would give amateur explorers Cousteau-like access. This is the "OpenROV."

STACKPOLE: ROV stands for remotely operated vehicle. I can put this in the water and fly it around. It's got a video camera on it so you can see what it sees live.

BALDWIN: Users build the ROVs themselves and are encouraged to submit new designs and ideas.

STACKPOLE: The Open ROV is an open source community. If the ROV is having some sort of a problem and we can't figure out how to handle it, I can go to the forums. As I sleep, the problem is going across Europe. By the end of lunch, I could have five or six good solutions.

BALDWIN: Making it easier for the ever-changing ROV go into more uncharted waters.

STACKPOLE: People ask us, is it a toy that's fun to build and play with or is it something that you expect to be used by real researchers, and our answer is certainly both. DAVID LANG, OPENROV: We hear from people all the time that want to go in and find and check on invasive species, fish and game groups, and teachers that want to get them into classrooms, and we're excited about all of them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, let me update you now on the overwhelming recovery work that is just starting in the Philippines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WIND BLOWING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A monster typhoon that is a Pacific hurricane. A typhoon is a Pacific hurricane. It's as big as Germany. Triple the power of Hurricane Katrina. Triple the power of Hurricane Katrina. The storm shredded the Philippines islands and leaving about 1,200 people dead. About 350,000 people have no homes across the country. The typhoon either tore the homes to pieces or wiped them all altogether. The cost of the storm in human lives and buildings and infrastructure were impossible to estimate as bodies washed up on beaches and littered the streets.

Storm chasers on the ground describe the destruction as apocalyptic devastation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES REYNOLDS, STORM CHASER: During the height of the storm, the scream of the wind was deafening. We could just hear thunderous crashes of debris flying through the air. You know, at some point you could feel the whole hotel, which is made of solid concrete, shaking as some unknown object was just repeatedly crashing into the side of the hotel.

We have storm surge starting to flood the ground floor of the hotel. Residents are evacuating up to the second floor.

We had residents staying at the hotel on the ground floor you can see in the video who were trapped. They were smashing windows in sheer desperation to try and get out of those hotel rooms, you know, in total fear for their lives.

Over here.

I was riding out the storm with the CNN crew, Andrew Stevens (ph) and Tim Schwartz (ph), and it was really, put the cameras down, we've got to get out there and help these people. Otherwise, you know, there's the possibility they could drown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One more?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I think we got everyone. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good. Everyone?

REYNOLDS: It was a life-and-death situation for those people and it was an incredibly dangerous situation.

People are roaming the streets just dazed and confused. I just hope this gives them that -- it's hard to describe in words. But I hope this can give, you know, the viewers an understanding of what the situation was like there. It's desperate.

(on camera): So we got some looting going on at the drugstore by the looks of it. People are starting to get pretty desperate, it would seem.

You can see, we're just basically heading back to the hotel to meet Mark. This town is suffering very badly.

(voice-over): I've been through a lot of typhoons before. I've been through a lot of natural disasters before and this just does not -- it's incomparable, this is just off the scale in terms of just an event to witness and the aftermath is honestly apocalyptic in Tacloban. It's a devastating situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Wow. Aid agencies mobilizing to help the victims of the typhoon. To find out how you can help -- and you can help -- go to CNN.com/impact. CNN.com/impact.

So, they increase the shelf life of food, but they could say -- but you could say, excuse me, that they decrease the shelf life in humans. We're talking about trans fats and the FDA wants to ban them from some of our favorite food, like microwave popcorn, cookies and doughnuts. We've done some shopping and we're going to give you the skinny on what foods to stay away from.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. It's just about dinnertime here on the east coast and you're heading out. If you're heading out the door to your favorite restaurant, hold on, because you're going to talk -- we're going to talk about the food that we eat and what's in it, OK? Hold on, I promise you, you will like this. Specifically trans fats. The FDA is taking the first steps to ban it from our food supply. Trans fats are hydrogenated oils that make foods like -- oh, my gosh. Look at that, doughnuts -- microwave popcorn, frozen pizza, makes it taste so good. In a moment, our two guests are going to shed light on what the ban means to all of us.

But first, we want to get some background from CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's an ingredient in a lot of our favorite foods -- microwave popcorn, cookie, cakes, frozen pizza and much more. Transfats, they increase shelf life and they add flavor to processed foods. But the FDA is now saying they are not safe and wants to ban them. It's a move they say that could save thousands of lives.

MICHAEL TAYLOR, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, FDA: We think it's time to address and really phase out the remaining uses of trans fat in the diet so that we can reduce the incidence of heart disease and deaths resulting from heart attack.

GUPTA: You see, trans fats lower good cholesterol and they raise bad cholesterol. What we're trying to avoid is this -- LDL, or bad cholesterol building up as plaque in the blood vessel walls. Because that plaque buildup is what can cause heart attacks. The CDC says ditching trans fats would prevent up to 20,000 heart attacks a year and as many as 7,000 more deaths from heart disease.

New York City banned trans fats from restaurants in 2007. And many companies and popular chains around the country have already phased them out.

The Grocery Manufacturers Association says that it "looks forward to working with the FDA to better understand their concerns and how the industry can better serve consumers."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: OK. So, I've got a bunch of food here. And I'm joined by-- you can take the true shot now. With so many foods to choose from, it can be hard to navigate. And we're going to try to figure out what's murky in these ingredients because sometimes it says it has no trans fats and it might have trans fats. Not all the foods here have trans fats in them. That's not what we're saying. We have a variety here. And some of this is my favorite diet. These.

(LAUGHTER)

I want to bring in the experts now. Joining me in studio is Alexis Towersey. She's a personal trainer and lifestyle coach. And on Skype, from Charlotte, North Carolina, is Vani Hari, the creator of foodbabe.com.

If I call her food babe, don't get offended. She's calls herself the food babe. Foodbabe.com.

Alexis, I want to start with you. Let's begin with out stomachs and the products in front of us. Because it's a little murky because sometimes it says it doesn't have it, but it does.

ALEXIS TOWERSEY, PERSONAL TRAINER & LIFESTYLE COACH: Yeah, when the FDA first said that, you know, food manufacturing companies had to basically put the food labeling on there and tell you how much fat and trans fat was actually in a product, even though it says zero grams of trans fat on there, it doesn't necessarily means it has zero grams of trans fat.

LEMON: Like this. My executive producer and I, Vickie Russell, were, like, this was our diet growing up. In our lunch pail, we had Funyuns or Cheetos or whatever. It says zero trans fats and when you go down there it says hydrogenated soybean oil. Does that mean trans fats?

TOWERSEY: Yes. Partially hydrogenated oils are trans fats. The regulations state that the food labels must have the trans fat amount on there, but if it is under --

LEMON: Right.

TOWERSEY: -- 0.5 grams, they don't actually have to declare it. It could zero grams trans fats but if you go on to the ingredients it may say partially hydrogenated oils.

LEMON: If we look at this -- oh, my gosh. Do you remember honey buns, right? This honey bun has 0.5 grams of trans fats. Do they have to declare that?

VANI HARI, FOODBABE.COM: No. They don't have to declare anything less than 0.5. So, here's where the tricky situation comes in, is if you eat more than one serving, you could get more than a gram or maybe four or five grams of trans fat in one serving. And one popular product that has trans fat is microwave popcorn. I don't know when the last time you ate popcorn, Don, but I don't eat one cup, I eat one bowl.

(LAUGHTER)

This is a real concern that trans fats are still allowed in foods when the label says zero.

LEMON: Here you go. Because I went and bought this today just for this prop and I opened it and --

(LAUGHTER)

TOWERSEY: And you ate it?

LEMON: Rosa Perez -- Rosa Flores -- Rosa Perez, I can't believe I called her that. Rosa and I ate this popcorn as soon as we opened it, as soon as we got it here.

Listen, Vani, why does it taste so good and it's so bad for you?

HARI: Well, you know, the thing is, is trans fat inherently doesn't taste that different than real fat. What trans fat's does is it allowed food companies to create a shelf-stable oil that stays on the shelf forever basically and allows --

LEMON: But what's wrong with that, then? What's wrong with that?

(LAUGHTER)

HARI: Well, what's wrong with that, it's clogging our arteries. It's causing up to two -- I'm sorry, 20,000 heart attacks a year and up to 7,000 deaths. I mean, just a 40-calorie increase of trans fat in your diet increases your heart rate risk -- heart disease rate risk to 23 percent. That's an astronomical.

LEMON: OK.

HARI: We should be, I mean, eating really healthy fats.

LEMON: Listen, if Rosa and I only eat these once a month or once every three months or what have you, it's moderation, what's the big deal?

TOWERSEY: No trans fats are good for you. Like, no trans fats are good for you. You can't argue for it in any way. There's no nutritional value. And you could make a better alternative by yourself.

LEMON: But Vodka isn't good for you, but if I have a couple glasses of vodka, what is it --

TOWERSEY: Well, I guess, no one's perfect. But the thing is people don't realize you can eat the same foods, you just have to be really aware of how you're preparing it. You just have to prepare it differently.

LEMON: Stand by, Vani. Stand by, everyone. We'll go to break and come back and we'll talk more about what's good for you, what's bad for you.

And I have a lot of people on social media saying, how am I going to do my Christmas cakes without the trans fats? They taste so good.

Don't go away. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. So we are back and we're talking about trans fats.

Alexa Towersey is a personal trainer and lifestyle coach from Charlotte, North Carolina; and Vani Hari, creator of foodbabe.com.

OK, I'll call this the lightning round. Not all of these have trans fats, so product people, managers, owners, we're not saying that all your food has trans fats.

(LAUGHTER)

This is just from my diet.

OK. Alexa, someone says, "Alexa Towersey, tell her to stop suppressing my trans fat freedom, #fatguy."

TOWERSEY: Stop whining about being fat.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: OK.

(LAUGHTER) Someone said, "Trans fats help balance electrolytes in the heart." Vani?

HARI: That sounds like a study funded by the food industry so that they can make more money.

LEMON: So, that's -- you think that's wrong?

HARI: Oh, absolutely.

"Buy yourself, Don, an air popper to make air popcorn. It's much better for you."

Vani?

HARI: It's a great discussion.

LEMON: That's true? OK.

Let's see. Someone said, "Don, you're way too excited about that honey bun." Yes, I am.

(LAUGHTER)

That's true. I want some popcorn, too."

Vani for you as well, Pop Secret popcorn said it has zero grams of trans fat.

HARI: But it has partially hydrogenated on the ingredient label. And if you eat more than one cup, you're going to get trans fat. And, remember, 40-calorie increase increases your heart rate -- disease rate by 23 percent.

LEMON: OK. So then, what do we do? Because they're taking it out. You guys, are you the food -- people are saying what is with the food police. Who are you, Mayor Bloomberg, Michael Bloomberg, all of a sudden, telling people what they can eat and what they can't? What happened to freedom in America?

TOWERSEY: Oh, my gosh. There are so many people -- there is an obesity epidemic worldwide. It's not just in the U.S. It's all over. I'm from Hong Kong. It's in China as well. They blame the Americans for the fast food. I get clients complaining to me all the time about why they can't lose weight. This is one of the reasons.

LEMON: OK.

TOWERSEY: Why wouldn't you want to address this?

LEMON: I'm old school. I say everything in moderation. I know trans fats will be gone but I just -- if you don't do it all the time.

Vani, this is for you. You don't have to answer but I want to tell you, this guy, J.J. says, "Tell Vani she is crazy. Trans fats forever." Just so you know. HARI: There's a bunch of great fats the food industry can replace those trans fats. I hope they don't do the wood glue that Kraft is investigating now. Use things like coconut oil and sustainable palm oil that comes from Ecuador. They are healthy alternatives that the food industry can use.

LEMON: OK, Vani, Alexa, thank you. We'll make sure all this food is taken care of.

(LAUGHTER)

At least I will.

Thank you, guys, very much. Appreciate it. Great conversation.

It's a meeting never expected to happen ever. U.S. and Iranian officials face-to-face to negotiate a deal on Iran's nuclear program. We are live from Geneva with the very latest on the talk. And we have a guest joining us who says a deal is a horrible idea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Diplomats trying to negotiate a deal on Iran's nuclear program are working into the night to resolve differences. So far, no deal.

CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us from Geneva where the talks are taking place.

What's happening, Karl?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, it's nearly midnight here in Geneva. We are moments from what we expect will be a news conference to tell us if a deal will be sealed. Right now, we don't know. These negotiations have gone into an unscheduled third day. The U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has been working hard, yesterday and through today, trying to thrash out a deal, trying to narrow the differences with the Iranians. At the core of this, a lot of issues, a lot sensitive issues and a lot of complex issues, but the core of this is an effort by the U.S. and other world powers to stop the Iranians getting their hands on enough material to build a nuclear bomb.

Right now, what we understand from delegates -- most of them are keeping tight lipped. But those who have spoken say, right now, any deal on the table they don't believe there are enough checks and balances to make it watertight to hold the Iranians to their word. What we have to do is wait for a few more moments. When they come out, we are expecting U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to come out, the Europeans to come out, and the Iranian foreign minister to come out and tell us.

The good news, however, if there's no news of a deal today, there's a climate of optimism throughout the negotiations. If there's no deal today, all sides could be back in a week or 10 days to try and iron out the last differences to get some kind of deal that makes the Mideast a safer place -- Don? LEMON: Karl, it's 11:56, almost midnight. How long are we talking before they come out, and what happens next?

PENHAUL: Right now, what we do know is John Kerry and other leaders of the world powers are in a meeting with the Iranian foreign minister. They have been in that meeting now about an hour. That has gone longer than we expected. We expected a protocol meeting to say, hey, guys, no deal today, when should we come back? It seems like they might be talking about the nitty gritty. We don't know. It could be another hour or moments away -- Don?

LEMON: Karl, don't go anywhere. If it happens within the next few minutes or while we are on the air here in the hour, we want to get to you.

Karl Penhaul, in Geneva, thank you very much for that.

I want to bring in Fouad Ajami to talk about the deal with Iran. He's a fellow at Hoover Institute.

You have made it no secret of your lack of faith in any government with the Iranian regime. Am I putting words in your mouth? You don't think this is such a good idea?

FOUAD AJAMI, SENIOR FELLOW, STANFORD UNIVERSITY, HOOVER INSTITUTION: No, you are absolutely right. We would have a deal. We would have a deal because our side, the American side is desperately eager for a deal.

LEMON: Why do you think it's not a good idea?

AJAMI: It's just not a good idea for reasons that we can -- but if you read it, take a look at why there hasn't been a deal, ironically, it's because the French haven't thought it's a good deal being worked out. Let's go back and remember when we changed the names of French fries into freedom fries.

LEMON: I remember.

(LAUGHTER)

AJAMI: Because we thought the French were too much of an accommodationist nation.

The irony is we are eager for a deal. The rules are bizarre. Since we are talking about Iran, it's good to talk about the bizarre. You must always be willing to walk away. The dilemma of the American position, the position of the Obama administration, is it's not willing to walk away because it wants this deal.

LEMON: You are getting ahead of me here.

AJAMI: Sure.

LEMON: I want to keep on in that same vain. You had some very tough words -- here are the tough words -- for the Obama administration in the "Wall Street Journal." You wrote, "The gullibility of the Obama pursuit, of Mr. Obama's pursuit in an opening with Iran has unsettled America's allies in the region In Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab emirates, there's a powerful feeling of abandonment. In Israel, there is the bitter realization that America's strongest ally in the region is now made to look like the final holdout against a blissful era of compromise that will calm a turbulent region."

Will a deal with nuclear Iran make the Middle East more or less stable, in your view?

AJAMI: Don, I believe something a lot of our officials know but will not state publicly. I think Iran is going to be a screw-drivers twist away from a nuclear weapon. I think that is the truth we cannot utter. Iran is well on its way to acquiring a nuclear weapon. And here, we're talking to the Iranians about uranium enrichment. But it turns out there is another trick. There's another path to the bomb, which is this heavy water reactor in Iraq where they produce plutonium. Plutonium could also be the way to the bomb. The decision in Iran -- Iran is hell-bent on acquiring nuclear weapons. They believe it is their right. They believe they are close. And what they want the lifting of the sanctions. That's where we are.

LEMON: A big factor, of course, is Israel in all of this.

AJAMI: Yes.

LEMON: Will Israel accept a negotiated deal with Iran?

AJAMI: I'm not sure Israel has many options. We see Prime Minister Netanyahu in a way lobbying against the deal. In fact, it depends on the will of the United States. If the United States wants to make this accommodation, this deal with Iran, it will make the deal with Iran. Here is one irony. We are now dealing our friends in the world, in that region in particular, are the Iranians, Russians and Syrians. The people we antagonize are our traditional allies, particularly, two very important powers, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

LEMON: Is there a reason for no tie today?

AJAMI: No because I was at home watching you and I saw that you had no tie, so I thought I follow your example.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You look very dashing with or without a tie.

AJAMI: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. It's always a pleasure to have you as well.