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Bill Clinton Says Keep Your Word; Americans Kidnapped by Pirates Released; Hunger Worsens in Haiyan Aftermath; Sea World Wants Trainers Back in Water

Aired November 12, 2013 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman, live in New York, along side Zoraida Sambolin.

So a former president has some advice for the current president. Could be a little controversial. He says keep his word.

ZORAIDA SAMBOLIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill Clinton speaking out today with his take on President Obama's repeated promise to Americans about their health care. President Obama's facing intense criticism as thousands of health care plans get canceled under new Obamacare rules. But when he campaigned for his signature health care law, the president repeatedly said, if you like your plan, you can keep it. Now, in an interview with ozzie.com, former President Clinton said President Obama should keep his promise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I met a young man just this week who has a family, two children, bought in the individual marketplace. His policy was canceled and one was substituted for it that doubled his premium. Now, I asked him, I said, the same coverage, and he said, yeah. And I said, but are your co-pays and deductibles the same? He said, no, they're much, much lower. So he said in the years when I use health care, I might actually save money. But he said, you know, we're all young and we're all healthy. So I personally believe, even if it takes changing the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people and let them keep what they got.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so joining me to talk about this from Washington is Elise Viebeck, a writer and health care reporter for thehill.com and CNN's chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash.

Dana, let's start with you here. Last week the president said he was essentially sorry that people are losing their health care plans in some cases and he says he would be open to some changes to hopefully help these people who are being affected. He says he's putting a team together to look into it.

There are really two questions here at this point. Are there actual changes that can be made to help these people, as the law currently stands? It's not like health care plans are dropping the people. These health care plans are actually disappearing. The other side of this is, what about the political will here. It's not like Democrats in Congress have been able to get Republicans to go along with anything, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's very true. I think the answer to your first question is, is it possible? They don't really know the answer to that. And when I say they, I mean the administration. As you said, the president said last week that he has told his team to look into how they can make changes, how they can save health plans for people who do like their current plans and want to keep them.

But the answer to your second question feeds right into that about the politics of this, because here on Capitol Hill, you are seeing more and more Democrats feel the pressure to not just say, OK, we're going to wait for you, Mr. President, but take initiative and say that they want to try to make changes legislatively. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat from Louisiana who is up for re-election in 2014. Kay Hagan, same boat. Senator Pryor of Arkansas, same boat. They have legislation that they are pushing to say, look, if you like the health care that you have, the insurance policy that you have, you can keep it.

Never mind what House Republicans are doing, which is, they already have a vote scheduled for the end of the week with legislation along these lines. So, everybody is sort of jumping on what Bill Clinton said for obvious reasons because the administration itself has to turn to him as almost an oracle. Somebody who is a messenger, a secretary of explaining things I think is how somebody has put it. And so for him to say it, it almost gives -- gives cover for a lot -- even more Democrats, never mind Republicans, to say this is something we need to do and we need to do fast.

BERMAN: Including, in fact, some liberal Democrats and close allies of President Obama. Just a little bit earlier on CNN, Illinois Senator Dick Durbin talked about perhaps changing the law a little bit. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: I think we need to look at the political reality. We need to be open to constructive changes to make this law work better. But there are those, frankly, who don't want it to work at all. If those on the other side are willing to sit down in a constructive fashion, move us toward our goal making health insurance available to more and more Americans and reducing costs, that's a good, positive thing to do. I would say to President Clinton, if we can bring that bipartisan group together, we can start to solve some of the problems we're facing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's a lot of ifs there, Elise. He talks about being open to make the changes. How could they make these changes?

ELISE VIEBECK, STAFF WRITER/HEALTHCARE REPORTER, "THE HILL": It's very unclear at this point. There aren't good options at all for Congress, particularly because Republicans and Democrats still seem to be far apart on this question. And, certainly, the insurance industry has a major role to play here and they're very opposed to anything that would further delay the enrollment period, delay the individual mandate or somehow allow consumers to continue on these policy that, as you said, have been canceled.

So, I think people are intentionally vague here because they're not sure yet exactly what this solution would look like. But it's certainly interesting that Dick Durbin, a Democrat from Illinois, made that comment today. He's sounding a lot more like his vulnerable colleagues from red states, Democrats like Mark Pryor, who have shown that they're much more open to changes to Obamacare because they're in political hot water.

BERMAN: The question now is, what is the White House saying about this? Let's go right now to the White House and CNN's Jim Acosta, who has just emerged, Jim, from the White House briefing, putting the questions to Jay Carney right now. What is the press secretary saying about former President Bill Clinton?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was very interesting, John. White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said that President Obama agrees with President Clinton. That people who have lost their insurance ought to be able to keep it if they like it. The question is, well, how is that going to happen? And I put that question to Jay Carney because what Bill Clinton said was, even if you have to change the law. That is not exactly what the White House has been talking about in recent days, but here's how I put it to Jay Carney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Former President Clinton did say, I personally believe, even if it takes a change in the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made. So the president agrees, even if it takes a change in the law that (INAUDIBLE) --

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well what I - what I -- what I just said, Jim, is that the president has instructed his team to look at a range of options. And we haven't announced one way or the other, although, understandably, you and others ask us for details on what is under consideration. We haven't announced any potential fixes or moves that we might be able to make to address this problem. But the president is, as you heard him say in his interview with NBC, he's very interested in trying to address this problem and looks forward to being presented the options that he might be able to pursue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And so you heard that there, John, the White House press secretary keeping the cards very close to the vest. They are not talking about which options they're talking about and they had been saying for several days now that what they were really focused on were some of these administrative fixes and I did talk to an administration official who said earlier this morning that one of the things that they're looking at is, is allowing people to directly enroll through the insurance companies instead of having to go through the bug riddled website.

Well, that is very different than keeping the plan that you have right now. And, you know, this question went down the line there in the White House Briefing Room from reporter to reporter as everybody tried to press Jay Carney, well, what options do you mean? What are you talking about? Because as Dana mentioned, Mary Landrieu, endangered Democrat from Louisiana, has a proposal, if you like your plan, you can keep it.

When Jay Carney was asked about that specific plan, even though he - he dismissive some of the others coming from House Republicans, he did not really weigh in on Mary Landrieu's plan. And so, John, what you may see emerge here in the coming weeks, if this does not get fixed and this continues to be a big problem, is the White House perhaps warming up to some of those Democratic plans coming out of the Senate, especially from those senators who are up for re-election next year.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Jim Acosta at the White House, getting the fresh response from Jay Carney on Bill Clinton saying people should be allowed to keep their plans. Thanks, Jim.

The problem, though, Elise, as we've been talking about, keep your plan. You can't keep a plan that no longer exists. So, in what ways then -- what are some of the possibilities for alleviating the pain that so many people, millions by some accounts, are feeling?

VIEBECK: I mean you make a good point, there's a huge difference in between letting people keep their plans and doing things to mitigate the negative effects of losing your plans. I think that's the key difference and that's what we're going to have to watch very closely in the coming days because it's possible that the White House will unveil a proposal to, example, give people a federal discount on their insurance coverage when they repurchase it after their plans have been canceled.

But that's very different than allowing people to retain the coverage that they already had. The idea of people directly enrolling through the insurance companies is also very interesting, but the problem there is that they won't be able to find out whether they're eligible for federal tax credits to help make their coverage more affordable, which is one of the cornerstones of these new exchanges. So, I think that the White House is in a real bind here and certainly the pressure is increasing. We'll have to watch in the coming days what they unveil.

BERMAN: We will indeed. And, of course, that deadline for when they said they will have the site fixed is fast approaching, as well. A lot going on for this White House in terms of rolling this out.

All right, Elise Viebeck, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

VIEBECK: Yes, thanks.

SAMBOLIN: We have breaking news - breaking news now on CNN.

We're getting word the Americans who have been kidnapped by pirates have been released. Let's go live to Barbara Starr, she is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, what do you know?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, details very sketchy at this hour, Zoraida, but the State Department confirming now that two American merchant sailors kidnapped off their boat off the coast of Nigeria last month have been released. We say kidnapped by pirates, basically these are criminal networks that operate off the coast of Nigeria, often attacking oil surface vessels such as this one was, oil platforms, oil workers, holding them potentially for ransom, looking for money out of all of this.

No word on whether ransom was paid. No word on how they were released. But it has been generally understood since the incident happened that the company they worked for in Louisiana was negotiating to try and get them released. So details very sketchy, but by all accounts now two Americans being held by criminal elements in Nigeria released and presumably on their way home to their families. So it's good news.

SAMBOLIN: Well, that is great news. Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon for us. I know you'll continue to follow this for us.

BERMAN: All right, coming up for us next, just weeks after "Blackfish" aired on CNN, Sea World is in court fighting the ban on trainers being allowed in the water with the whales. You will hear what happened inside that court.

Plus, American Airlines and U.S. Air today announcing they will sell- off facilities at major airports. This is all to complete their merger. The big question, what does this mean for you?

SAMBOLIN: And we are going live to the Philippines where survivors are running out of hope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAMBOLIN: The tears in the Philippines are now coming not just from grief but hunger.

BERMAN: It has now been four days since Super Typhoon Haiyan hit. Four days since thousands of people there have had solid meals or clean water to drink. The nation now has more than 2 million people in need of food. Some 800,000 people have been displaced, but 2,400 are injured and officially 1,774 lives lost.

SAMBOLIN: And on top of all of this, a new storm and even an earthquake have hit the impacted areas. No word of any major damage from them. We do have some positive news. The president has reduced estimates of the full death toll to 2,500. Plus, there is a lot of help pouring in. Across the globe, at least $55 million have been pledged with $25 million of that coming from the United Nations. BERMAN: An aircraft carrier, the USS George Washington, is also headed to the island to help refuel and assist search choppers. Now you're about to hear just how much relief is need. Survivors speaking to the cameras hoping that those they love are still alive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm just letting you know, Josie is gone. Please forgive me, I couldn't save her (INAUDIBLE) we all got separated from each other when the strong waves hit. We got separated. I couldn't even hold on to my child. My wife's over there - Josie is on the corner. Her body has been there three days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven't found my father until now (ph). There are (INAUDIBLE) of them that shouldn't be found (ph). My child has been (INAUDIBLE) in that island (ph) to the mother of my kids who's currently living in Virginia (ph), I know that you'll (INAUDIBLE) this: Justin and Elaire (ph) gone. They are both dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't worry, Yong. All of your siblings and your mother and father are alive. Except for those of (INAUDIBLE) - one of my siblings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brother, you know, Jaralyn (ph) last Saturday night had a baby, by the grace of God. We haven't had much to eat. Father, if you are watching this, if you can, please I'm begging you, I haven't had any to eat. There isn't any food, just all water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our house got demolished. My father died (INAUDIBLE) hit by falling wooden (INAUDIBLE). We are calling for your help. If possible, please bring us food. (INAUDIBLE) have anything to eat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There aren't any medicinal supplies coming for us over here. What can we do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's no more food even and all our kids are now getting sick. My son is crying (INAUDIBLE) milk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAMBOLIN: Just devastating.

One storm chaser, who just got out of Tacloban area, described how his hunger and dehydration affected his thinking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM EDDS, STORM CHASER: I was lucky to get out of that airport. I was severely dehydrated. I was one of the lucky ones. I got out on a C-130 over to Cebu where I have Internet connection to get the story out. People have wounds, they're getting infected. You're not going to last too many days with an infection. Severe dehydration. I was getting to - getting to where I was losing my mind. I wasn't thinking clearly.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAMBOLIN: And Jim Edds points out that he was seeing those conditions several days ago, as well.

So I'm going to turn now to Rafael Lopa, who is in Davao City in the Philippines. He is the executive director of the United Way for that country.

I know you're very busy, so thank you for spending some time with us. Your group is focusing on the long-term recovery. We are taking a look at these images, people who are desperate, who need food, who need water, who are saying they're still -- their children are getting sick. What are you seeing on the ground today?

RAFAEL LOPA, EXEC. DIRECTOR, UNITED WAY IN THE PHILIPPINES: Well, pretty much the same, but what's reported on TV, it's really just at the present sites, very overwhelming. Again, you have to understand, this is a - this is the third largest disaster that we've experienced in just a span of about two months. We had, of course, a manmade disaster in Sembwanga (ph) when rebels invaded the city. But then we had an earthquake in neighboring province of Bowal (ph) and now this one.

And really I guess the fatigue of everyone trying to just address the problem, just trying to address this numerous needs of our different disaster victims is just too overwhelming and -- but at the end of the day, I think, well, we just can't stop. We just have to start pushing and pushing and trying to figure out how else we could reach out to our people.

SAMBOLIN: I know there are just some horrific images of devastation and we're looking that the pictures of these babies. But over the last four days, have you seen any improvements at all?

LOPA: I think it's really a slow process that's happening right now. Even we, in the private sector, are still trying to find ways and means to even send some of the relief - relief that we have also put - we've been able to assemble independently of what government's been able to do. Clearly everybody's trying to augment this. But the transport of these goods and the logistics that need - that are needed is just becoming more and more difficult. We, of course, it's further aggravated by the peace and order situation that's happening in Tacloban. So it's really very difficult to really bring stuff right now, even as we have it. And that continues to be a challenge. But we're still pushing. We're still pushing.

SAMBOLIN: Well, Rafael Lopa, executive director of the United Way, we appreciate your time and we wish you a lot of luck.

LOPA: Thank you very much. And just like to take this occasion to ask some of our - some of our friends there in the United States, if you could visit our giving page, www.unitedway.org/philippines. We've sort of -- we put a portal together with the United Way Worldwide Network to raise additional funds to actually augment whatever relief and rehabilitation efforts that we need to do now and, of course, in the future. We need to rebuild those schoolhouses. We need to rebuild homes. We need to provide additional health services. Definitely there's going to be a lot of impact on that, not only on the physical, but even on the mental trauma that's happening there. We do need your help. So, please --

SAMBOLIN: No, absolutely. No, absolutely. Mr. Lopa, absolutely. We will make sure that we have that information available on our website. Thank you so much for your time.

BERMAN: Cnn.com/impact. So important.

And up next for us, a crucial day for Sea World. The theme park appeals a federal ruling that bans trainers from getting in the water with killer whales. We're on this case.

Plus, we have a clear winner in the tallest building debate. Chicago's Willis Tower versus New York's One World Trade Center. Who has won? The decision just came down and we'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAMBOLIN: It's been more than three years since Sea World trainers have been in the water with killer whales after the death of veteran trainer Dawn Brancheau.

BERMAN: Today, Sea World Orlando is asking a panel of three judges on a federal appeals court to overturn safety citations and a ban instituted by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which restricts how humans interact with killer whales during these performances.

SAMBOLIN: But at the conclusion of today's hearing, there was no indication on how the panel would actually rule. And it could be months before a decision is made.

BERMAN: This is big for Sea World. Proof of just how serious this is, they hired a big name as their attorney. A man named Eugene Scalia.

SAMBOLIN: Sounds familiar.

BERMAN: Sounds familiar? He's the son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. He's also the Labor Department's former top lawyer. He's a big name in this field.

SAMBOLIN: Yes. So let's bring in CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.

Nice to see you, Sunny.

And CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

Thanks for being with us.

So, Danny, I'm going to start with you. Sea World says the interaction between the humans and the killer whales is essential, actually, for them to do business. Do you think that that's a legitimate argument?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they have really two major arguments. One is that it's essential to their business and the general duty clause, which is the basis for these restrictions, was never meant to make a business change its product or change the service that it provides.

Secondly, Sea World's argument is that to reduce contact will actually make the killer whales more dangerous because they use a form of operant conditioning. That involves, it requires close contact. And without that close contact, the whales may actually be more dangerous. It is an uphill battle, but Sea World has some very legitimate arguments.

BERMAN: Sunny, let me ask you about something Danny said. He talked about the general duty clause. This essentially says that employers must provide a workplace free from recognized hazards. But how is, you know, a trainer swimming in a pool with a killer whale different than football players getting on a football field hitting large men or, for that matter, reporters going to war zones?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, that's the issue. I mean OSHA certainly is part of the Labor Department and OSHA is sort of tasked with enforcing these federal safety laws that are supposed to protect workers. And under this sort of general duty clause, what OSHA is arguing is, listen, we're going to apply this cause because you've got to keep your workers safe and we've got to have a standard.

The problem is that what is the standard? What is a recognized hazard in this industry? Sea World is saying, we're not hazardous, we don't have hazardous conditions, but OSHA is saying, yes, you do. But bottom line is, not everyone goes to work and swims around with killer whales. I mean I'm sitting in a studio talking to you. That's my job.

BERMAN: Dangerous.

HOSTIN: And so what is the standard? What exactly - what is the standard? What is the recognized hazard? And I've got to tell you, I mean, I think it's a unique case and it's going to be a difficult case because there is no real standard here that is recognized. Sea World really has been the standard.

SAMBOLIN: So, Danny, this could make a strong statement about the power of OSHA. What kind of precedent is this going to set for any future cases?

CEVALLOS: Well, the big -- the big issue here is that OSHA is saying that Sea World is aware of the risk. And I don't think Sea World is denying -- they're admitting that there is a risk. However, consider this, it appears that in the entire history of orca captivity, orcas have killed four persons and including, I think, only maybe three trainers, one civilian.

Now, when you compare that to other industries, when you hear of how many people died during the Hoover Dam, coal mining, all of these other highly dangerous industries, it seems a little unusual. It seems a little odd that this is the argument, that you can't eliminate every single risk from an industry, especially when people are knowingly and willingly entering into that industry. BERMAN: There was no decision today and it could be a while before we hear how the judges on this panel rule.

Sunny Hostin, Danny Cevallos, thanks so much for talking about this with us.

HOSTIN: You bet.

SAMBOLIN: And still ahead, one of the youngest Daytona 500 winners to ever get behind the wheel just announced he has multiple sclerosis. Trevor Bayne opens up about the disease and if MS will sideline his career. I talk with him live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)