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Obamacare Enrolment Numbers Coming Today; 911 Tapes Released In Wildcat Mauling; Bond Hearing In "Stand Your Ground" Case; Man Freed After Murder Conviction Overturned; New Craze: High Tech Ice Cream

Aired November 13, 2013 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ZORAIDA SAMBOLIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

The Obamacare mess is converging today on a whole host of fronts. CNN's Dana Bash reporting that House Democrats unloaded on officials from the White House at a meeting on Capitol Hill. They asked when the website is finally going to be fixed. And perhaps more importantly, they demanded something solid by Friday on re-establishing health coverage for the millions of people who have lost it after the president promised they would not lose it. So largely, as a result of that broken promise, Barack Obama's approval rating has hit an all- time low, 39 percent. Look at this. A majority of Americans, 52 percent, believe the president is not honest and trustworthy.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we just got word that the Obamacare enrolment numbers are coming today. We've had hints of what they will be, not high, those hints. Joining us now to talk about all this, Democratic strategist, Chris Kofinis, and Buck Sexton, he is the national security editor for Glenn Beck's channel, "The Blaze."

Chris, I want to start with you here because we are hearing from a lot of Democrats. I have been talking to Democratic officials. Dana Bash has been talking to Democrats, who was just at the White House, saying they're very concerned with what's going on here. So put a number on this for me. On a scale of 1 to 10, how big of a political problem is this for congressional Democrats?

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, right now, it's probably in the 7 to 8 range. I mean, if we're talking about this a year from now, it's going to be over 10. I mean, this is a long ways away before the midterm elections, but people kind of obviously project forward. I think the difficult part, you know, especially if you're a member of Congress and you're hearing from your constituents to keep in mind is you had similar problems when the prescription drug plan was rolled out under the Bush administration.

You've had similar problems in the past with any rollout of any major problem. It's not an excuse. It's just an understanding that any time you're going to have a significant kind of initiative. You're going to have hiccups and problems. The unfortunate thing here is these have been major problems. Until they get fixed beginning with the web site, people aren't really going to focus on some of the key positives that are there that clearly people are already benefitting from. BERMAN: Yes, it's unclear whether these are hiccups. I'm not sure there's a gastrointestinal word to describe the type of hiccups in some case that are going on right now. But I want to ask you this because we're hearing from some Republicans on Capitol Hill, now Fred Upton proposing a bill in the House that would help insure he thinks some of people who have been losing their insurance, whose plans have dropped them now over the last few months.

It's a new concern, seemingly, from Republicans, insuring these people who don't have insurance here. How far are they willing to go here? Will they support a bill that would mandate that these insurance plans keep people on the rolls?

BUCK SEXTON, NATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR, "THE BLAZE": Part of the problem is that's not even possible. If there was the political will, and it seems that there might be because Democrats are hitting their panic button, as they should be. This could be progressive as in waterloo if you will. The fact is that if you try to grandfather the plans now after the fact, it would throw the whole insurance industry into disarray.

They have to do projections, going out into the future, they have to calculate what the subsidies are based upon the old regulations. Now this has been years in the making. It's very important for everybody to recognize that. The notion that now a grandfathering fix is even possible, I think, is a fantasy. I'm not even sure the Obama administration would go for it, would allow it, despite the fact they are absolutely embattled.

I would put this at a 9.5 on your scale, and it's only going to get worse. This is just about the web site, which by the way, is not going to be fixed by November 30th. It will be a little better but still pretty terrible and they need to convince young, healthy people to get involved in the process, which is insure in terms of the data. The web site doesn't work. There's no way. This is a catastrophe in stages.

BERMAN: Now I would like to say this is at a moment of bipartisan agreement here. You put it at a 9 and Chris put it at a 7 or 8. So there's not much difference between you two so the sides are coming together at least on that.

Chris, I want to ask you about the poll numbers here for the White House because you're seeing numbers that frankly we haven't seen before, an all-time low on the president's approval rating. For the first time, the majority of Americans say they do not trust him. That's always been one of the president's strongest traits.

He's under water with women, a key Democratic constituency here. There's a real problem for any president in his second term when people simply decide that the president is almost irrelevant or ineffective. History tells us people typically don't come back to the second-term presidents.

KOFINIS: I mean, it's difficult in the second term. This has been a historical pattern, I don't know what it is about second terms, but presidents continuously have problems with them. In this case, it all has transfixed and focused around the web site, the rollout of Obamacare, what the president said, how people interpreted that. That has created, I think, real schisms amongst the public that they have questions that aren't being answered and addressed.

This is -- I think the answer here is really simple. If things get fixed, if the web site gets fixed and people are able to enrol, the Republicans who clearly do not care about the 47 million people who were uninsured before Obamacare, and I don't see any initiatives, you know, since then in order to fix Obamacare, but putting that aside, if it gets fixed, the web sites get fixed and people start enrolling, then you know, six months from now, we can start focusing on the positive.

If it doesn't then this is going to be a serious problem. The Republicans are going to use this as a 2 x 4 to hit us over the head with. But that doesn't make an excuse for the fact that they still do not have a simple answer to what is your solution to this co complex problem? Because the notion of going back to what we had, that didn't solve the problem. That created the problem.

BERMAN: You know, Buck, it's an interesting point. In that Quinnipiac poll we've been talking about, there was one number that jumped out at me. It was one of the numbers down below. The voters still say they trust Democrats in the White House more than they trust Republicans when it comes to health care here. So despite all of these problems and there have been myriad problems here, voters still don't seem to think that your party would do any better?

SEXTON: Well, look, President Obama has managed to do the impossible in some respect, which is make health care a toss-up issue now. It's pretty close between Republicans and Democrats. It had been the conventional wisdom, the established wisdom for a long time that Democrats owned health care as an issue. What we have seen now was entirely predictable.

In fact, it was predicted by a vast majority of conservatives who were paying attention, and this is a failure of central planning. Your guest was talking about the web site. I can tell you now the web site is not going to function at even the White House's own specifications by November 30th, but that's just part of the issue.

The people who are having their plans canceled now, that is working the way it's supposed to work. That is why President Obama had to lie to people to get this through. The whole notion is that you're going to have one side subsidizing the other. You are going to have people who are older and sicker having their health care subsidized by the young and healthy. That is the mechanism by which Obamacare has to function.

It's the only way it functions. So everyone getting their plans canceled, yes, they'll have the option to have another plan with a lot of things in it they don't want and they probably can't afford, and they may not qualify for the subsidies that would push them into the, I guess, I can afford this side of things. So this is only going to get worse and we're not even talking about the employer mandate, by the way, which is going to be a huge drag on businesses and economic growth. So the White House has no good answers here, but they recognize that you accept that the other side has been right all along.

As we're seeing in the polling now, the American people are figuring it out, to accept that would mean a massive and dramatic reversal. Nothing focuses a Congress's mind than the prospect of losing their job in the midterms and that's what all the Democrats are upset about right now.

BERMAN: So much of this has to unfold, as you said. One of the things that we will know, probably within the hour, is exactly how many people had signed up in the first month of this. So we will start seeing the facts of this present themselves. That will happen, as I said, within the hour. So stay with us for that. Buck Sexton and Chris Kofinis, thank you so much. Loved this discussion, really appreciate it.

Still ahead for us, new information on that wildcat attack that left a sanctuary worker dead. We will hear the frantic 911 call. Plus, we'll find out what may have led to this awful mauling.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back, everyone. We're learning more about what happened the night that a worker was mauled and killed inside an Oregon wildcat sanctuary.

SAMBOLIN: The deadly attack happened last Saturday night. CNN affiliate KGW reports Rene Chapman was killed by a cougar inside one of the cages and she may have been in there alone, which goes against the sanctuary's policies. So the 911 tapes of the tragic accident have just been released.

CNN correspondent Stephanie Elam just reviewed them. She's joining us live from our L.A. Bureau. This is always so difficult, Stephanie, because you know the family is going to be listening to these 911 tapes also. What are we hearing in them?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's really tough to listen to, Zoraida and John, when you hear it, before the harrowing 911 call even starts, you can hear the caller is breathing hard. He's an owner of Wildcat Haven in Clackamas County, and he's the one who discovered 36- year-old Rene's body inside the enclosure. The sanctuary is described as a last-hope resort for captive-born wildcats. On the 911 call, the owner sounds hysterical as he works to recover Chapman. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: My God. My God, my God, Rene. My God, my God. My God.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Sir, are you in a safe position to go in by yourself?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I'm here.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: We don't want you to get injured. I don't want you to get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I hear what you're saying. Get out of here! Get! Go! Go! Go! My God, Rene. My God, Ren, my God!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: As you hear that, he sounds like he's actually shooing away some of the cats that are there as well. The call goes on. Dispatchers trying to assess the situation and you hear the caller realize he's just too late to save Chapman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Do you think she's beyond help?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: But yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. Is there someone we can call for you to talk to, a chaplain or someone? Can I call somebody for you?

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: So upset. Upsetting to hear him talking like that. The sanctuary has said that it was gust protocol for any keeper to be in the closure alone, and they found the lock-out gates where they could lock out a cat and work in an enclosure in any area, those were working properly -- Zoraida.

SAMBOLIN: Stephanie, do we know if that sanctuary is still operating now?

ELAM: Yes, it's still operating and they have actually hired an outside expert to investigate the incident and review its safety protocols. The sanctuary also said it's cooperating with the state's investigation into the incident and it's preparing for the Department of Agriculture's investigation. This is something that happened annually. It's coming up and they're preparing for that as well -- Zoraida.

SAMBOLIN: It is such a tragedy. An important part of the investigation, the 911 calls, but so difficult to hear. I want to point out that the woman who was killed here, has a 5-month-old baby as home, just a tragedy.

ELAM: A newborn.

SAMBOLIN: Yes, thank you, Stephanie. Appreciate it.

BERMAN: Chilling audio to listen to. Just ahead for us, a man is free after spending ten years behind bars. Find out why an appeals court overturned his murder conviction. We're on this stunning case coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAMBOLIN: Welcome back. A Florida woman who has spent over 1,000 days behind bars in a controversial "Stand Your Ground" case will find out today if she can walk free, at least temporarily.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARISSA ALEXANDER, GRANTED NEW TRIAL: This is my life I'm fighting for. This is my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAMBOLIN: That is Marissa Alexander. She was sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a gun to scare off her allegedly abusive husband. She was granted a retrial last month after an appellate court ruled that the previous jury had incorrect directions. A bond hearing will be held later on this afternoon in Jacksonville to decide if the mother of three can get out of prison while she waits for a new trial.

BERMAN: Another case that so many people are talking about today. Have you ever met a 29-year-old who has never sent a text, never posted a Facebook update, never used a smartphone, well, there is one man, Ryan Ferguson, who hasn't been able to do any of that. Why? He's been locked in prison for almost a decade. But as of last night, he is free. Well, he's free, period, and he can do all of these things.

SAMBOLIN: So Ferguson, as you can see there, walked out of prison to a cheering crowd after a Missouri appeals court overturned his 2005 murder conviction. He was only 19 years old when he was convicted of murdering a newspaper sports editor. During that trial, Ferguson was implicated by two key witnesses, but last year, the same witnesses admitted they had lied. All the while, Ferguson and his family maintained his innocence. He spoke to CNN earlier today about what his future holds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN FERGUSON, MURDER CONVICTION OVERTURNED: They have taken my 20s and I'll never have that back. Nothing in this world can give that back to me and those are amazing years, obviously. That's when you're an adult. So I'm 29, but I literally have never really lived as an adult in the free world. It's going to take some time to adjust to it and to grow into it, but I have been preparing for this past decade mentally and physically like I said, with an amazing support group, amazing family, amazing attorneys. I feel like the transition is definitely doable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAMBOLIN: HLN's Jane Velez-Mitchell is going to join us. This is a remarkable young man. I mean, he is not bitter, he's not angry. He is so composed, so poised. I would want to get revenge. Seemingly, he doesn't hold any grudges. So what they said, the appeals court ruled the prosecutors withheld evidence in his original trial. So does he have a case against them?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN ANCHOR: He has a lawsuit or two or three. I mean, this case was total and absolute garbage. Two witnesses who recanted and admitted they lied. No physical evidence against him. You know, this is what happened when the criminal justice system becomes morally corrupt. When they forget that justice is a search for a truth and it becomes a cynical game where it becomes win that prosecution at all costs. This is a precautionary tale that should send a chill down the spine of every detective and every prosecutor out there, do not handle a case this way, much better to lose and be right.

BERMAN: But we have seen this type of thing before and does it really send that chill? Do we see these changes being made in the system after a case like this, which is so horrible?

MITCHELL: I don't think so. I think we do have a prison industrial complex. More people behind bars than any country in the world, and a lot of them are locked up for nonviolent drug offenses when we have serious criminals out there running free, rapist, all the rape kits that aren't tested. Our criminal justice system is messed up. This is the penultimate example. I hope this guy sues, I hope he gets a lot of money. It's a crazy back story of manipulation, twisting the truth, planting ideas in the minds of a very troubled teenager.

SAMBOLIN: You know, again, I go back to the fact that he just seems to harbor absolutely no bitterness. One of the questions I walked away with after watching him is how do you get closure on this. They have released you, but are you proclaimed innocent?

MITCHELL: Well, they have to find out who did this. None of the physical evidence matches Ryan, or according to what we have learned Charles, either, Charles Eriksson, his high school buddy who testified against him. Apparently, there was somebody else at the scene, according to some published reports, who was not investigated.

I want to know. There were bloody footprints. Who do they belong to? The hair, who does the hair belong to? The DNA, the forensics, this case was botched from the get-go. Essentially, what happened was a kid was drunk and had a black-out and didn't remember what happened that night. A couple years later, he's reading a story about an unsolved murder.

He said, I was in the area. It was Halloween night in 2001, I wonder if it could have been me. He tells a friend, next thing you know cops dragged him in and then they say your head could be on the chopping block kid and that's when implicates Ryan. He knew nothing about it, according to critics who studied the tapes. He knew nothing about the crime, Charles Erickson. And the cops fed him the information, the details of the crime so he would be able to testify against his former friend.

SAMBOLIN: It's just a remarkable story, remarkable. Thank you so much for joining us today.

BERMAN: Ryan Ferguson, remarkable guy to keep his spirits up for that long.

Coming up for us next, some of the most bizarre political moments you will ever see, the mayor who admits to smoking crack. Still, he confronts the city council looking to take him down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ROB FORD, TORONTO: Apologize for following the rules and asking the other members of council to follow the rules? That's what I'm apologizing for? No, I don't think there's an apology necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, in Silicon Valley, it seems like everything has a high- tech twist, even ice cream. David Mattingly has the inside scoop, yes, I just said inside scoop, in this "Technovations."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Smitten Ice Cream shop in San Francisco, they call it new old fashioned ice cream. It's still the sweet treat many of us love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's so good.

MATTINGLY: But these cool creations come from some serious science.

ROBYN SUE FISHER, SMITTEN ICE CREAM: So here at Smitten, we make every single batch of ice cream to order. Nothing is frozen until you order it and we make everything from scratch that morning.

MATTINGLY: The tasty technology behind it all, the aptly named burr machine, an invention of the founder and chief barista, Robyn Sue Fisher.

FISHER: The gist behind the burr machine is that is uses liquid nitrogen and we use liquid nitrogen because it's super cold. It's actually negative 321 degrees Fahrenheit, and a super cold freezing process has the ability to make a smaller ice crystal. A smaller ice crystal means a really, really smooth product.

MATTINGLY: You can't buy a burr off the shelf. It took five years of research and development, seven engineers and three patents to build these ice cream machines. Each order takes about 90 seconds to make, and apparently, plenty of customers are smitten with the taste.

FISHER: This summer, we served over 20,000 people a month. That's a pretty good number for us. Thanks so much. Have a great day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You know, even the video, which we have not seen --

SAMBOLIN: I'm Zoraida Sambolin alongside John Berman. We are live from New York. Brooke Baldwin is off today. The city of Toronto is holding its first council meeting today since Mayor Rob Ford's admission that he smoked crack.

BERMAN: The mayor repeatedly said he would not take a leave of absence during the forum, which has been one part inquisition, one part forum, one part campaign speech and you know, a million parts circus all tied up into one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Mayor, have you purchased illegal drugs in the last two years?

FORD: Yes, I have. I have saved more taxpayers money --