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Zimmerman About to Be Arraigned; Zimmerman Appears in Court; Zimmerman Attorneys Answer Questions
Aired November 19, 2013 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN: Happening right now, George Zimmerman back in a Florida jail for a video arraignment that's about to begin. If you're just joining us right now, let me update you on what's going on. Zimmerman is charged with felony aggravated assault, domestic violence, battery and criminal mischief for allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend. Let's bring in our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin as we await this arraignment.
Jeff, felony aggravated assault. Obviously pretty serious offense. If Zimmerman were to be found guilty of that, how long could he be in prison?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, multiple years certainly. But we're a long way from that. He hasn't even been officially charged. And today the interesting question is going to be, will Zimmerman be released on bail? That's likely to be the main topic of discussion in court. And I don't think it's an obvious answer. So this could be quite an interesting hearing coming up.
BLITZER: Well, what -- explain why they're doing it via video. He's in the jail. Why didn't they bring him into the court? Usually an arraignment like this you would bring the defendant into the courtroom to appear before the judge. Why are they doing it via video?
TOOBIN: More and more jurisdictions are actually doing video arraignments. There tend to be a lot of arraignments during a day. Moving prisoners around is very time consuming, very expensive. And these hearings often, not always but often, are very short. So in many jurisdictions now, they just put the prisoner, the person who is being arraigned on a video screen. They can consult with their lawyer at another time. And do it this way. It's really a money and time- saving device.
BLITZER: As you say, the key question as far as this arraignment is concerned is whether the judge will let him out on bail. He has no money. His own attorneys say he's millions of dollars in debt, legal fees involving the Trayvon Martin case. What do you anticipate? Will they let him out on bail? Will he be able to be out on bail or is he going to spend time in jail now?
TOOBIN: There are two questions that always come up on the issue of bail. One is, is the person a risk of flight? Here, I think, Zimmerman will probably be in pretty good shape. He has not left Florida. He apparently lives in Florida. That's probably not going to keep him in prison, in jail. The bigger issue is the second question. Is he a danger to the community? Because here the accusation is he pointed a gun at his girlfriend. We all know he killed Trayvon Martin. He was acquitted of a crime in connection with that, but he did kill him. That's not in dispute. So given his record, given the fact also, in September, he was involved in a domestic violence investigation that led to no charges, three other times he has been involved in traffic stops since his acquittal in the Trayvon Martin case, so the "danger to community" issue might be one the prosecutors raise. And that might result in a higher bail than would be otherwise called for in a case like this. It's not clear, as you say, what money he has or who might put money up for him to get him out of jail tonight.
BLITZER: What's also interesting is that this "he said, she said" aspect of these 911 calls. Alina Machado at the top of the hour played some of those calls. The girlfriend, now the ex-girlfriend, saying he was out of control. He then made a separate 911 call. He said, to get his side of the story out there. Is this one of those "he said, she said" allegation stories or I assume the police, if they're going forward with these serious charges, felony charges, they have more evidence to back up her side of what happened supposed to his?
TOOBIN: Well, certainly, if they will proceed, if they actually do go to a trial on a felony case, they will need a lot more thorough investigation than was possible just in the last few hours.
It is true that the two 911 calls present completely different versions of what happened. But there's a lot of other evidence potentially out there. I mean, obviously, one of the big issues in this case will be, if it turns into a case, is the issue of the gun. The girlfriend said he pointed a gun at her. George Zimmerman said he did no such thing. Was the shotgun in the case? If the shotgun remained in a case and the police walked in and found it in a case, that would certainly support George Zimmerman's story. If they found the gun was exposed and he could have used it that may well support her story. That's the kind of evidence that the police are going to need to accumulate to the decide how to proceed in this case.
BLITZER: I want to tell viewers what we're seeing. Live pictures from the John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Sanford, Florida, that's the jail. Zimmerman will walk in there. You'll see him. Be standing at the podium. The judge will appear via video in connection with this arraignment and then we'll find out whether or not the judge will grant bail, won't grant bail, what the charges are, the specifics. So we're watching this unfold. We're standing by for that.
You know, earlier today, Jeff, I heard you on "New Day." You covered very extensively the O.J. Simpson trial. He was acquitted of murder just like Zimmerman.
Here he comes. He's walking in right now. Stand by for a moment. Let's see if this is about to begin. There's George Zimmerman appearing at the podium in handcuffs, I believe.
FREDERIC SCHOTT, SEMINOLE COUNTY JUDGE: Mr. Dowdy, would you like a moment to confer with Mr. Zimmerman or should I begin?
JEFF DOWDY, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: You can begin, Your Honor. We're all set. Thank you, Judge.
SCHOTT: All right. Good afternoon, Mr. Zimmerman. I am Judge Schott. Today we're having first appearance. Everybody arrested in the state of Florida is entitled to see a judge the day following their arrest.
The initial purpose of this hearing is to determine whether there is probably cause for the arrest itself. That means whether there are reasonable grounds to believe that a crime may have been committed and that you may have been the person who committed the crime.
There are certain things that we have to accomplish today. The first is to make sure you understand the reason or reasons for your arrest. The second is to make sure you receive a copy of the charging document. In your case, it will be an arrest report so you and/or your attorneys can prepare for a trial of your case. The third is to make sure you clearly understand all of the rights that you are guaranteed as a citizen of this United States.
First of all, you have the absolute right to have your case tried by a jury of your peers. Six individuals will be chosen to decide whether you're guilty or not guilty of the offense or offenses as alleged. Second, you have the right, if you do not agree with the decision of the jury, which is called a verdict, to appeal that will decision to a higher court for perhaps a better or more favorable result or outcome. Third, you have the right to be represented by an attorney at all stages of the proceedings, including throughout your trial and on all of your appeals. You have the right to hire an attorney of your choice. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you by the state of Florida. Fourth, you have the right to remain silent, which means at your trial, if you choose to say absolutely nothing, it cannot be held against you by the jury or by any court. Fifth, you have the absolute right to confront your accusers, which means you or your attorney will have the right to cross-examine the state's witnesses and try and impeach their evidence so that they cannot prove the case against you. And you have the right to bring in your own evidence and your own witnesses. And if your witnesses will not come eventually, the judge assigned to your case can force them to come through the subpoena power of the court. You also have the right to reasonable communication with your family, friends, and attorneys, and if you ask to do so or have the means to do so, reasonable means will be provided for you. Finally, you have the right to be presumed innocent, which means you cannot be found guilty of any charge or any crime unless and until the state of Florida can prove beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt each element of that will charge against you.
Do you have a question about any of these rights, Mr. Zimmerman?
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, ARRESTED FOR ASSAULT: No, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: Do you understand all those rights?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: OK, good.
The next thing we have to accomplish is to make sure you understand when your next court proceeding is going to be. You are responsible for any information you are given here in writing today or told here today, especially as it involves dates, times and places. If you are not here for your next appearance, I can almost guarantee that the judge assigned to your case will issue a warrant for your arrest and you'll wind up back where you started today.
The final thing we have to do today is to discuss bond and reasonable conditions of bond based upon the offenses as alleged.
And so, Mr. Zimmerman, do you understand that the reason for your breast is that it has been alleged that there was a domestic violence- related aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and a domestic violence related battery and criminal mischief? Do you understand that?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. Yes, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: OK. Did you receive a copy of the arrest report, sir?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: OK. I did, as well. I do find probable cause for all three allegations and for the arrest.
I'm going to appoint the public defender's office to represent you on all three of these criminal charges, Mr. Zimmerman.
Your next court appearance will be an arraignment with just Rex Seedler, on January 7th, 2014, at 1:30 p.m. in courtroom 18A.
Now we'll discuss bond and reasonable conditions of bond.
I will hear from the state first.
Ms. Alroger (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Your Honor, thanks for the state of Florida.
SCHOTT: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: OK. Well, Your Honor, we had the opportunity to speak with the victim in this case. She is in fear for her safety and she would like there be no contact and no return. We do have two exclusionary zones tops include 1308 Topfield Court, Apopka -- that's A-P-O-P-K-A. -- and also as additional address --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: -- of 1010 Sand Lake Road in Altamonte Springs, Florida. In addition, Your Honor, we're requesting no possession of firearms or ammunition. And that any new address he is to live also be weapon free. We're also requesting that he not be allowed to travel outside the state of Florida and also to relinquish his passport.
SCHOTT: OK. Mr. --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Your Honor, I --
SCHOTT: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: -- if I could just put some other things on the record.
SCHOTT: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: The victim had indicated that there was a prior domestic violence incident that occurred approximately a week and a half ago that involved a choking that she did not report to the police. She is in fear for her safety on the day of the incident. She indicated that they had been discussing breaking up. He also has mentioned suicide in the recent past. Due to those factors and the defendant indicating at the time he was threatening to commit suicide, he had nothing to lose, we feel the victim's safety and the community's safety is of paramount concern. At this time, the state is requesting $50,000 bond to ensure his return to court.
SCHOTT: OK. Well, I'm not going to go anywhere near that.
But, Mr. Dowdy --
DOWDY: Yes, sir?
SCHOTT: --, would you like to make some argument on behalf of your client?
DOWDY: Yes, sir, on behalf of our office, Mr. McCarol (ph) would like to address the court as to that issue, Judge.
DANIEL MCCAROL (ph), ATTORNEY FOR MR. ZIMMERMAN: Good afternoon, Judge. Daniel McCarol (ph) on the behalf of Mr. Zimmerman.
Regarding the issue of bond, our client doesn't have an opposition to some of the other conditions mentioned of the no return to the address, no weapons, and not have any contact with this particular person. Judge, pursuant to the bond schedule of Seminole County, Mr. Zimmerman's bond should it be set at bond at $4900. He is a long-time central Florida resident. He does not have any failure to appears. He does not have prior criminal convictions. And he does have significant ties to the community. Mr. Zimmerman would have some locations in the central Florida area where he would be able to stay at. That does not involve having any contact with that particular person. So our client is asking for a $4900 bond in this matter.
SCHOTT: All right.
Mr. Zimmerman, do you still have any personal possessions? Because I read the arrest report. It seemed like you were getting ready to move out of the Topfield Court address in Apopka. Do you still have any possessions there?
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
SCHOTT: OK. Then here's what we're going to do. I'm going to set the bond in this case at $9,000, which is $8900 on the aggravated assault and $50 for each of the misdemeanors, for a total of $9,000 with numerous special conditions.
The first is, that you cannot return to 130 -- (AUDIO PROBLEM) -- any personal possessions you may need or want but you will have to have law enforcement accompany you there.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
SCHOTT: You cannot go to 1010 Sand Lake (AUDIO PROBLEM) Samantha Shiby Scheibe, S-C-H-E-I-B-E. And in case you weren't an aware, no contact means not by person, not by phone, not by mail, not by fax, blog, tweet, through Facebook, no contact at all. Next, no possession of any weapons or ammunition while you're out on bond. That's in part for her safety and in part for your own safety it may seem like. And I am going to order the impact monitoring device to keep you away from her and away from those particular locations just to make sure there aren't any further altercations between the two of you.
As far as the passport, did you ever get your passport back after the last trial?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm not sure, Your Honor. My former attorney may have it.
SCHOTT: OK. I'm not going to worry too much about your passport but I will put out as a condition no traveling outside of the state of Florida while you're out on bond.
And those are the special conditions that I believe to be reasonable. And I think that's a reasonable amount based upon the additional allegation of a previous unreported potentially battery by strangulation. That's the reason for the increase in the bond amount. I'm not increasing your bond because of anything that's happened in the past. As far as I'm concerned, this is a brand-new case.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.
SCHOTT: So --
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, Judge.
SCHOTT: -- we're going to go with the increased bond, those special conditions and Judge Red Seedler will see you back January 7th, 2014.
We did take your case first in order to accommodate the folks in the press, who I want to be able to get out of there in a timely fashion. Madame state attorney, anything else you'd like to add?
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Yes, Your Honor. We were requesting that if you can modify the one return of law enforcement and if you could indicate that a third party actually go to the residence to retrieve the belongings instead of him going to the actual residence with law enforcement. I believe that would ensure more safety for the victim.
SCHOTT: Well, that would be wise anyway because I think one of the things that might still be there is a weapon or ammunition. So it's better if it's not in Mr. Zimmerman's possession at all.
So you'll have to have a third party go to the residence with law enforcement in order to get your perm possessions that may remain there.
Ms. State Attorney, anything else you'd like to add?
UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: No, thank you, Your Honor.
MCCAROL (ph): And, Judge, regarding that condition, Mr. Zimmerman would prefer to go there will himself. Obviously, he would be accompanied with several law enforcement officers. He would not be touching any of the weapons or the ammunition. I'm not sure that there is another person in this area that can accompany him to retrieve some of his personal belongings. So he is asking the court if he would be allowed to go there himself.
SCHOTT: No, I think it's best that somebody else goes there. I really do. This is a volatile situation, potentially. I'm going to leave that as a reasonable condition of bond.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAROL (ph): And judge, excuse me. I'm sorry. Regarding the impact monitor, the court took notice that he is indigent. We're asking the court to reduce or waive the cost of that device.
SCHOTT: I'll waive the costs.
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, Judge.
Thank you, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: OK. All right.
MCCAROL (ph): And the exclusionary zone, Judge, to be clear, was how many feet?
SCHOTT: 1500 feet to those two areas.
MCCAROL (ph): Thank you, Your Honor.
ZIMMERMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
SCHOTT: You're very welcome. We'll see you back January 7th, 2014, Mr. Zimmerman. Best of luck to you.
ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir. Thank you.
SCHOTT: We're going to take a five-minute recess to accommodate --
BLITZER: There you have it. George Zimmerman is going to be released on bond, $9,000 bond. A bunch of other requirements, including no possession of any weapons and staying away from the addresses where he allegedly committed these two crimes that he's accused of, a felony, aggravated assault in connection with allegations that he tried to beat up his girlfriend, now his former girlfriend, and also twos misdemeanors, domestic violence battery, criminal mischief.
Quickly to Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey, what do you think? Were you surprised he's going to be released on $9,000 bond?
TOOBIN: Not really. It seemed like a reasonable resolution. I thought there was one very news worthy development in this hearing, which is that the alleged victim in this case has now alleged a separate instance of domestic violence, an apparent attempted strangulation a week or so ago, which suggests that the police may investigate that, as well. If they find evidence for it, that they may add that charge to it. So this is still, as we've been discussing, a very early stage of this investigation. There could be more charges. There could be no charges ultimately. But we'll certainly know by the first week in January how the case is proceeding.
BLITZER: Jeffrey, hold on for a moment. I have a lot more questions to ask. I know our viewers are asking a lot of questions as well.
We'll take a quick break. Much more on the George Zimmerman hearing that we just saw right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: George Zimmerman's attorney speaking to media right now saying they expect he will be out of jail, being able to post bond by tomorrow morning. Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It seems like every time that he has a crisscrossed with a law enforcement officer, there's a weapon involved.
DOWDY: Well, there, seems to be a pattern. As of yesterday, the sheriff's office removed all the weapons. That's not a concern at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Which weapons were taken out of the home?
DOWDY: I'm not sure, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So why were they talking about him returning to the home and possible other weapons being in there? DOWDY: That would be an incorrect statement. The sheriff's office removed all the weapons from their house. He wants to go back just to get his personal belongings. That's all.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He feels he's in danger and needs to have a weapon --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- Zimmerman about the seriousness of these particular charges and the possibility of minimum mandatory prison time here?
DOWDY: We've not had that discussion with him.
I'm sorry, Kathy (ph), what?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He feels like he's in danger -- (INAUDIBLE).
DOWDY: That's correct, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
MCCAROL (ph): Well, Mr. Zimmerman has obviously had issues before with people looking for him and issues with his safety and location. The places he intends to go to are in the area. Obviously, we can't talk about where he's going to be going, how far away, or anything like that. But hopefully once he is released, he'll be at that location and be secure from anybody who wants to have any improper contact with him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
MCCAROL (ph): I'm sorry. What was that?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You're saying he doesn't appear to be suicidal. There has to be some level of concern.
MCCAROL (ph): I can tell you I've represented thousands of people. A lot of them have mental issues in some form or fashion. Part of what we do as defense attorneys is to identify and spot some of those red flags regarding mental situations. My conversation with Mr. Zimmerman, I didn't get the impression he was suicidal.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Since his arrest, has he had any contact with his ex-girlfriend?
MCCAROL (ph): Since he's been arrested, there's been no contact.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is a man who's had quite a few numbers of run-ins since the acquittal in July. The general public consensus is this is a loose cannon. Do you think your client is a loose cannon?
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAROL (ph): I definitely would not characterize my client as a loose cannon. He's presumed innocent on these matters. We're confident he's going to be acquitted. We just ask it go through the normal channels of the process of the justice system.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
DOWDY: Not yet. But I assure you the message will get across to him.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you think is going on here? Is he having a meltdown of some sort?
DOWDY: I think it's too early to say a meltdown. We'll find out. We're definitely going to talk to him in depth.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you met him before? Have you had any contact with him before today?
DOWDY: I met him briefly. I've mainly been representing Robert in the past. I'm familiar with the family. I have a relationship with Robert as an attorney/client. I briefly know George. I don't know him that well, enough.
MCCAROL (ph): The only time I've ever met him was I worked in the building at the courthouse right over there. His trial took some time. Coming in the building, out of the building. I have not had a conversation with him personally up until today. He was just arrested recently, so.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What was his reaction right after the bond hearing?
DOWDY: I think he's relieved. He knows he's going to be released. Go home, try to regroup and get ready to address the charges.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you looked at the allegations of the strangulation?
DOWDY: I have not looked at it. That was the first I heard about it, too. So I was surprised myself.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is his girlfriend pregnant? Has she been pregnant? Can you clarify?
DOWDY: I can't clarify, and I do not know whether or not she is. I just don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
DOWDY: Right, right.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
DOWDY: But I --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION).
MCCAROL (ph): I mean, I think any time somebody's arrested for charges, it brings a certain level of an -- anxiety and stress. My impression, he didn't appear to be a danger to himself or a danger to anybody else.
Is this a stressful event for him? Probably, as it would be for anybody here. But I didn't see anything, and I don't believe Mr. Dowdy saw anything that causes immediate concerns for safety. I don't think he's going to hurt himself or anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think he needs psychological counseling? Do you recommend it?
MCCAROL (ph): If there are issues regarding his mental state, we as his defense attorneys have an obligation to have him evaluated for those thing. In speaking with Mr. Zimmerman, he's very clear. He's very coherent. He understands what's going on. I'm not a psychologist. I don't have any training in psychotherapy or anything like that. Whether or not he decides to seek treatment will be his choice. But that'll be a conversation we'll have to have with him later.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAROL (ph): I'm sorry, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you doing anything to protect the community from him? He's had all these incidents with guns. He seems out of control.
MCCAROL (ph): Well, we as his attorneys are here to defend and help him with this matter. It's law enforcement's responsibility to address any concerns that someone is violating the law. The sheriff's office and police department, they're all well equipped to handle matters like that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There's reports that he's in debt, he's $2.5 million in debt. Can you discuss that?
MCCAROL (ph): We discussed his financial affidavit. Any time someone is appointed office of the public defender, they have to fill out a sworn affidavit, a disclosure of what they have, how much money they have coming in, whether they own anything that can be liquidated into case, and whether they have liabilities. In this situation, Mr. Zimmerman did have some liabilities that exceeded his income and the judge decided to appoint our office.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How much liability does he have?
MCCAROL (ph): It's on the affidavit. I haven't looked at the affidavit yet. (CROSSTALK)
MCCAROL (ph): I haven't looked at the affidavit.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it still his contention, he's just trying to get out of the there, she's the one smashing the furniture, he never pointed a gun at her?
DOWDY: At this point, I have not had that discussion with him. I reviewed the report. It indicated that fact scenario that you said. I cannot confirm whether or not it's true.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did he say to you he did not have the gun -- (INAUDIBLE).
DOWDY: No --
BLITZER: All right. So there are the attorneys for George Zimmerman. He's going to be able to post bond. They say, by tomorrow morning, he'll be out. The next hearing, January 7th, 2014. Our coverage will continue.
We'll take a quick break right now. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in "The Situation Room."
NEWSROOM will continue with Brooke Baldwin right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
