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Remembering John F. Kennedy; President Obama Awards Medals of Freedom

Aired November 20, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: What a moment there. You see the president, the first lady, the Clintons, plus members of the Kennedy family, all paying tribute to the late President John F. Kennedy, who was struck down in Dallas 50 years ago this Friday.

And joining me now from Philadelphia, one of the few known living witnesses to that Kennedy assassination, Toni Glover. She's a professor at the University of Scranton.

Toni, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

Let me just begin with -- you were 11 years of age. You were a little girl. And from what I read, you begged your mother to allow you to go down to Dealey Plaza to watch this presidential motorcade.

As a young girl, tell me, Toni, what was it about President Kennedy that compelled you so?

TONI GLOVER, EYEWITNESS TO JFK ASSASSINATION: I -- my family was troubled.

And I felt like if I could get Kennedy to look at me or to wave at me, that that would mean I had a personal connection with him and that, you know, the troubling stuff that was going on at my house would all be over with, because no one would hurt a kid that Kennedy knew.

So I had some magical thinking when I went down there. And he did indeed look up and wave and smile. And I -- my heart just, you know, leapt for joy. I was floating in air. And then he turned the corner, and his head exploded. So it was kind of hard to put those two things together, especially for an 11-year-old.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: To hear you say his head exploded -- go ahead. Again, you're the sixth-grader. What did you hear and see?

GLOVER: I think that -- well, it was a time of political correctness.

And it was discussed as the assassination or the fatal shot. For the people who were standing there, it was a murder and it was graphic. It was right in front of us. And it was hard to process.

At first, you want to deny it. And I yelled to my mother, someone threw fireworks in the car and the police are really mad. But then Mrs. Kennedy came out of the back seat and crawled onto the trunk. And you knew, if the most sophisticated woman in the world was going to jump out of the backseat in a skirt, that something horrible had happened.

And that was the moment when our hearts just sank to our toes, because we knew something terrible had happened, even though we weren't exactly sure what. She -- she characterized the whole tragedy, actually.

BALDWIN: How do you mean, in that pink Chanel suit with blood spatter?

GLOVER: Well, it wasn't just a pink Chanel suit. She had on little white gloves. And she was, you know, waving with those little white gloves. And it was -- the back of the trunk after, you know, his head exploded, was a mess.

And so she was sliding through that, trying to grab something. And Clint Hill jumped on the back of the car and shoved her back into it. But you just -- that was the moment for me, and I think for many people, the oral histories that I have watched and tried to learn from, that we all knew it was -- you know, it wasn't a near miss or it wasn't something grazed his head. That was pretty dramatic when she did that.

BALDWIN: Clint Hill, the first lady's Secret Service agent there at that time.

And you talk about these oral histories. You didn't come forward as an eyewitness to that for years. Why?

GLOVER: No, I didn't.

And I'm not unusual in that regard. After the assassination, there were several books that came out, and not by credible authors, that said a number of witnesses have been killed in unusual ways. And since there was always kind of a question of whether or not Oswald acted alone at first, it put a lot of fear in you. And you thought, well, if somebody finds out I'm a witness, then maybe they will come after me.

And that's completely irrational, but it was a fear that we locked onto. Many people didn't come for 30 years or 40 years. A woman had actually some film that she kept in her lawyer's office for 30 years before she had it developed. And when she speaks to this day, she cries as soon as she tries to speak about it.

Most witnesses cannot get through a discussion without crying. So I forewarn you, if I start to choke up, you will know why.

BALDWIN: Toni Glover, I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to not only witness history, but almost just be a part of it, and being there in Dallas, and I know that you plan to be there in Dallas for the observance, for the 50th on Friday. You have your plane ticket. But there is still a little trepidation as to whether or not you're even going to get on the plane. Is that correct?

GLOVER: That's true. There is a little bit of that.

I have only been to Dealey Plaza four or five times since the assassination. And every time I go, it is -- it's devastating. Rose Kennedy had a quote that said, it's been said that time heals all wounds, but I don't believe that. Your mind will cover them with scars and the pain lessens, but it's still there.

And this wound is so deep for the witnesses that when you start to touch it again, when you start to talk about it, it just brings up a tremendous amount of pain, a tremendous amount of emotion. It's difficult not to let that out.

I -- so, every time I have been to Dealey Plaza, people come up and speak to me. And as soon as I start talking about it, I start crying, especially if I'm in Dealey Plaza. This year, there will be other witnesses. And so, you know, I'm sure I will get on the plane and go.

It's just that I will tuck a lot of Kleenex into my -- into my pockets before I walk over one.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You will not be the only one.

GLOVER: Oh, no, no, no, no.

BALDWIN: You will not be the only one on Friday with Kleenex, Toni Glover. Thank you so much.

GLOVER: Right.

BALDWIN: Let us know if you get on that plane.

GLOVER: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: And we appreciate you sharing your story with us here on CNN. Thank you.

GLOVER: Thank you. Thanks.

BALDWIN: Fifty years ago, President Kennedy issued an historic presidential order as well. And what it did was establish the Presidential Medal of Freedom. This is the nation's highest civilian honor. The medal is awarded to individuals who have broken barriers, truly made significant impacts on the nation.

And so 16 people were honored with the medal today right here in Washington, D.C., including a former commander in chief and an iconic media mogul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He doesn't stop. He's helped lead relief efforts after the Asian tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, the Haiti earthquake.

His foundation and Global Initiative have helped to save or improve the lives of literally hundreds of millions of people. And, of course, I am most grateful for his patience during the endless travels of my secretary of state.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: So I'm grateful, Bill, as well for the advice and counsel that you have offered me on and off the golf course and, most importantly, for your lifesaving work around the world, which represents what is the very best in America.

So, thank you so much, President Clinton.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Early in Oprah Winfrey's career, her bosses told her she should change her name to Susie.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: I have to pause here to say I got the same advice.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: They didn't say I should be named Susie, but they suggested I should change my name.

People can relate to Susie. That's what they said.

It turned out, surprisingly, that people can relate to Oprah just fine. In more than 4,500 episodes of her show, her message was always, you can. You can do and you can be and you can grow and it can be better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Another honoree sitting there on that stage today, the woman right there in black, prolific speaker, feminist activist and co- founding editor of "Ms." magazine, she's Gloria Steinem.

And she joined me live from the White House last hour. She's a woman who President Obama this morning described as a champion noticer, a woman who viewed the way women viewed themselves.

And what she thought about Americans, I asked her, because she said America wasn't ready to have a woman president in 2008. And she says that may change come the next election. Here's what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA STEINEM, CO-FOUNDER, WOMEN'S MEDIA CENTER: I didn't -- not that I'm not omniscient, but I didn't think that the country was ready in 2008, because I think so many of us are raised as children by women that we come to associate female authority with childhood, and we don't -- we aren't necessarily able to picture it and trust it in public life.

But I do think that the efforts of huge, huge numbers of women who have taken the risk and just the adventure of getting out there and showing that women must be in authority, otherwise, we have neglected half our talent, and that means that we are accustomed now to understanding that women can be in authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Thank you, Gloria Steinem, for joining me today.

Other Medal of Freedom honorees included today music legends Loretta Lynn, Arturo Sandoval, Cubs Hall of Famer and Ernie Banks, and the latest civil rights activist Bayard Rustin.

Coming up here, some of the other day's stories we're watching for you, new regulations for pilots and air traffic controllers. Listen to this. We will tell you why a pilot's weight -- yes, you heard me -- may play a role in flight safety.

Also coming up here on CNN, baseball star Alex Rodriguez, A-Rod, storms out of a hearing. He said he's fed up. He also says he's -- quote -- "disgusted" with the abusive process. What's he talking about? We will tell you, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Huge fallout at a grievance hearing for New York Yankee Alex Rodriguez.

Rodriguez, you know the deal. He's fighting his suspension for allegedly using those performance-enhancing drugs. But, just a short time ago, he lost his temper at this hearing to overturn that decision, stormed out of the room.

Jason Carroll, let me bring you in, and then explain to me as we talk A-Rod, what the heck happened?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no love lost, as you know, Brooke, between these two camps, between Rodriguez and MLB.

Today is absolutely no exception. Basically, Rodriguez is so frustrated with the entire process, this investigative process that led to his 211-game suspension, unprecedented, Rodriguez basically saying that that MLB investigators used unethical tactics to try to investigate him, including coercing and intimidating one witness, one witness that we actually interviewed, Brooke, into saying false things about Rodriguez.

And, basically, Rodriguez wanted MLB's commissioner, Bud Selig, to testify in this arbitration hearing, an arbitration hearing, by the way, which is closed to the public. Well, today, the arbitrator, the one -- the man who is proceeding over this entire process, this entire hearing, Fred Horowitz, decided Selig doesn't have to testify.

Well, Rodriguez had had it at that point. Again, this proceeding is closed, but a source who was inside the proceeding tells me that Rodriguez became so angry, he slammed his hand down on the desk, looked at Selig, looked at Rob Manfred, the MLB CEO, and basically said, you guys are full of it and stormed out of the hearing.

He later released a statement, saying: "I'm disgusted with this abusive process designed to insure that the player fails. The absurdity and injustice just became too much. I walked out and will not participate any further in this farce" -- that coming from Alex Rodriguez.

Also, we reached out to MLB. A spokesman, Pat Courtney, giving us a statement from MLB side of this, saying: "Despite Mr. Rodriguez being upset with one of the arbitration panel's rulings today, Major League Baseball remains committed to this process and to a fair resolution of the pending dispute" -- that coming from Pat Courtney, the MLB spokesman.

Now, the arbitration hearing will proceed forward without Rodriguez, who we're told is still very, very upset. Also hearing late word that Rodriguez is going to speak about this on a sports radio show out of Washington, D.C., sports radio host Mike Francesa. And I'm told during that interview with Francesa, which is supposed to be taking place just about now, Rodriguez is going to tell anyone who is listening that he did not take performance-enhancing drugs.

BALDWIN: We know you will be listening. Let us know what he says. Jason Carroll, thank you very much.

Coming up next, 50 years since the assassination of JFK, and one tragic image from that day has become iconic, that pink suit worn by the first lady, Jackie Onassis Kennedy. We're going to talk about her style and her presence on that day coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is the high fashion symbol of one of the lowest points the nation has ever endured, that pink Chanel suit Jacqueline Kennedy was wearing when her husband was shot 50 years ago this Friday.

Here she was. That iconic outfit to this day has not been washed. Did you know that? It's a deliberate and distinct decision Mrs. Kennedy made in the hours following her husband's death, according to "The New York Times."

And let me quote this fascinating article for you from "The Times." They wrote this: "On the plane back to Washington, in her pink Chanel suit, caked with her husband's blood, Jackie Kennedy resisted all suggestions from her aides that she clean herself up. Instead, she said, 'Let them see what they have done.'"

"The New York Times" goes on to report that that suit, that pink suit, is now in a vault, preserved by the National Archives. Caroline Kennedy has instructed that that pink outfit not be seen by the public until the year 2103.

I want to turn now to the author of the book "Jackie Style." Pam Keogh joins me now live from New York.

And, Pam, you have written so much. When we talk about this Chanel suit, before we even talk about the tragic, tragic moment, the color of the suit, it's a strong color. What do you think the first lady was going for there?

PAM KEOGH, AUTHOR, "JACKIE STYLE": Well, she knew what she was doing. It was a very striking pink, and she knew she would be surrounded by a bunch of men in gray suits and navy blue suits, so she knew that the color would pop in all the newsreels, which it does.

BALDWIN: And then the fact, though, after her husband is shot and killed right next to her in that motorcade, and she makes this choice as she's covered in that blood to hop That plane back to Washington. She knew she would be photographed. Why not wash it, do you think?

KEOGH: It was traumatic, as you said. Her husband was killed right next to her in the back of a limousine. It was traumatic and she just -- she said let the people see what they did.

And, in fact, she didn't -- she kept that suit on. You know, JFK, the body, was brought back to Washington. They had an autopsy. I think they finally got back to the White House with his body at about 4:00 in the morning the next day. And then she finally...

BALDWIN: To hear -- here, this is this graceful, seemingly perfect first lady, and here she is crawling in that car after her husband has been shot in this beautiful dress.

I talked to one of the surviving eyewitnesses as far as what she saw when it came to the first lady. This is what she just told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLOVER: He did indeed look up and wave and smile. And I -- my heart just, you know, leapt for joy. I was floating in air. And then he turned the corner, and his head exploded.

Then Mrs. Kennedy came out of the back seat and crawled onto the trunk. And you knew, if the most sophisticated woman in the world was going to jump out of the backseat in a skirt, that something horrible had happened.

She characterized the whole tragedy, actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Do you agree with that, Pam? Put what she did in perspective for us.

KEOGH: Well, I mean, she was in shock. As I said, her husband was inexplicably killed right next to her. His head exploded, not to get too blunt, and that she was crawling over the back of the limousine to try to get -- you know, to get pieces of his head that was on the trunk, and then of course Clint Hill leapt on the back of the car to try to get her in the car, so they could safely race to the hospital. It was terrible. It was a great tragedy.

BALDWIN: Right. And then, not too long after, you have the funeral. So she goes from this pink suit to wearing black. She has that veil.

And just -- she was 34 at the time. She was 31 when she became first lady, 34 when her husband was assassinated. And just, if you can, Pam, as we look at these archival pictures, bring me back to the time, her posture, her privacy, her legacy.

KEOGH: Well, I think she was very conscious always that she was the wife of the president of the United States and she was representing this country.

And she had a tremendous fear that JFK would be forgotten after he was killed, which we can't believe now, 50 years later. And she wanted a state funeral. And when she came back on the plane, she already was calling the White House and she said, go to the library and see everything you can about Lincoln's funeral.

She was going to mimic JFK's funeral, the public ceremony, the heartbreak, the grief, on Lincoln, who was also obviously assassinated.

BALDWIN: Pam Keogh, your book is "Jackie Style." Pam, thank you so much for your perspective here on the first lady.

And America changed nearly 50 years ago forever. And now CNN puts you on the ground in Dallas, Texas. Watch "The Assassination of JFK." It airs tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern time and Pacific right here on CNN.

Coming up next, Virginia State Senator Creigh Deeds, his condition has been upgraded to good one day after being stabbed multiple times in his own home, his 24-year-old son found dead of a gunshot wound. And, according to a local paper, the family had been seeking treatment for Gus one day before. Why didn't they get it?

We will talk about that next.

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