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Harry Reid Defends Nuclear Option; Interview with Sen. Rand Paul Regarding Filibuster Rule Change; President Obama to Speak about Filibuster Rule Change

Aired November 21, 2013 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SEN. HARRY REID, (D-NV), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: What is this? We'll give you one of the D.C. circuit, that way it will be 5-4. I just can't imagine -- and one of my friends, he is a friend, anyway, we've been in the House together, Senate together, been together a long time, came to me -- what would you do? What would you do, I said? And he, just the two of us, he didn't want to, he said I'm not answering that question. Everyone knows that what has gone on is absolutely unfair and wrong and I'm glad we changed it. It's a day of freshness for this great country of ours.

Senator Durbin?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: There he is, the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, defending this historic decision today to end for all practical purposes the requirement of 60 votes to break what's called a filibuster to get confirmation of nominees put forward by President Obama through the United States Senate. As of now, with the exception of Supreme Court nominees, all other nominees will only need 51 votes, a simple majority, on the floor of the United States Senate to be confirmed. The Democrats have 55 members. The Republicans have 45. So the Democrats are well positioned to get all of those nominees through right now with the historic change.

Republicans are furious about this change, a change to rules that have been in place for many decades. We're going to get Republican reaction. Kentucky Senator Rand Paul is standing by. We'll discuss what's going on right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Senate Democrats have now pulled the trigger on what's called the nuclear option. And in a dramatic and historic move just moments ago, the Senate voted to change the rules of the United States Senate, making it easier to end filibusters. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, say his took the action because of Republicans blocking President Obama's nominees. Republicans, however, call it a power grab and a smoke screen to shift focus away from Obamacare.

Let's discuss what's going on. Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky is joining us from Capitol Hill.

We just heard Harry Reid make the case for this historic decision. I want to get your reaction. Go ahead, Senator. SEN. RAND PAUL, (R), KENTUCKY: I think what we really need is an anti-bullying ordinance in the Senate. I mean, now we've got a big bully. Harry Reid says he's just going to break the rules and make new rules. It's never been done this way before. Typically, you have to have a two-thirds vote to change the rules and there has to be consensus and there's tradition. But he's breaking the rules to get his way. Meanwhile, we have a bill right now, we have several amendments lined up, but he's disallowing amendments. He's got to have everything his way. He's got to control everything. This is more about them trying to control the agenda and shift it away from Obamacare than it is anything else.

BLITZER: He makes the point that you, the Republicans, have blocked the nominations of three potential judges on the U.S. District Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., for no reason other than you don't want the president to have these nominees in place. They would be influential judges for many years to come. These are lifetime appointments. And he says this is totally unfair on the Republican part.

PAUL: Well, it's untrue what he's saying because, frankly, the argument we're using is the same argument that he and the Democrat minority argued in 2006 when they said the case load for the D.C. Circuit has dropped so precipitously that what we really need is to transfer judges to other circuits that are busier, and that's what we offered to do, which is a compromise. But what he's saying is, I'm in charge here, I'm a bully, and I'm going to get my way or I'm going to change the rules. And he had to actually break the rules in order to change the rules. Never been done. He's breaking with hundreds of years of precedent to do this. Frankly, in doing so, he's causing more discord and disharmony here, and there will be more dysfunction, I think, because of it.

BLITZER: Well, let's talk about that for a moment because you've been trying to work with Democrats, for example, Kirsten Gillibrand, the Democratic Senator from New York State, to change the rules as far as sexual assault in the United States military. There's a coalition, you, some other Republicans, some other Democrats -- you've got some opposition from John McCain and other, they don't want to change the rules. They want commanders still to be in charge, not military lawyers or prosecutors. Will this decision by Harry Reid and the Democrats, to change the rules on confirmation of nominees affect your cooperation, for example, with Senator Gillibrand?

PAUL: You know, it won't, my cooperation. I'm very supportive of Senator Gillibrand's amendment, which would give sexual assault victims more justice. I'll continue to fight for that.

But I'll tell you, it is complicated in the sense only way amendments come forward here is if you have an open enough process. One person can object and the whole thing's scuttled. But the reason people object because they're not allowed to introduce amendments people in their statement are interested in. So right now we have a very tight and closed process. We've got one guy in charge of the Senate and, basically, he's become the dictator of the Senate. He's going to bend and break rules until he gets his way, but he's also not going to let any amendments come from the minority. So we have a really tight ship up here but then that good things, like Senator Gillibrand's amendment, may get cast aside, not because of me, but because they won't allow an open process of debate and amending.

BLITZER: What do you say to Senator McCain who disagrees with you on changing the rules of the U.S. military in dealing with sexual harassment or sexual assault cases?

PAUL: I have a lot of family members in the military and I don't doubt any of their motives or any of the generals' motives but I just think it's more fair if you've been a victim of sexual assault or rape that you don't have to tell your boss about it, you tell authorities about it. In the military, this would be lawyers and judges that are trained in dealing with sexual assault and rape. 85 percent of them are going unreported. The military's been given three decades to fix the problem. I don't doubt their motives but it hasn't worked. So we need to try something new.

And to me, if it were my daughter in the military and were a son, whoever, they were abused, they should be allowed to report this, not to their boss who may go drinking with one of the abusers, but to an independent commission that doesn't know any of parties and looks at the facts objectively.

BLITZER: I know you and -- I think Senator Ted Cruz is with you on this as well, is that right?

PAUL: Yes.

BLITZER: You have an interesting coalition of a lot of liberal Democrats, conservative Republicans on this sensitive issue. You think it's going to pass, what you want? You think you have the votes?

PAUL: It's very close. Right now, if Senator Reid would let it pass with 50 votes, it would. It's got probably 55, 56, with three or four votes hanging in the balance. We probably are going to have to get to 60, though. I don't know if we make 60 or not.

BLITZER: Thanks so much, Senator.

I want you to know, I want all of our viewers to know, getting a statement from the White House. The president will make a statement to the American people from the White House briefing room in about 10 minutes or so, 15 minutes, 1:55 p.m. eastern. The president will go into the briefing room and deliver a statement. The White House not saying what that statement is going to be about. Maybe it's about the so-called nuclear option, maybe it's something about Obamacare, maybe it's about something involving Iran, a nuclear deal maybe with Iran or troops in Afghanistan. Lots of issues on the president's agenda right now. We'll see if he just makes a statement, answers reporters' questions.

Let me thank Senator Rand Paul for joining us.

Senator, thanks very much. PAUL: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Senator Rand Paul.

We'll get ready to hear what the president has to say. We'll try to find out what that statement will be on.

We'll take a quick break. Right after this we'll resume our coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The breaking news, the president of the United States within the next 10 minutes, according to the White House, will go into the briefing room and make a statement, reacting to the historic decision on the floor of the United States Senate to change the rules of the game as far as presidential nominees are concerned no longer require 60 votes to break a filibuster. But according to Harry Reid and Democratic majority in the Senate, 51 votes required for all presidential nominees with the exception of Supreme Court justice nominees.

This is an historic moment here in Washington. It's not just procedural. It will have long-term ramifications, as far as presidential nominees are concerned, as far as the D.C. Court of Appeals, specifically right here in Washington, D.C., but all sorts of other presidential nominees as well. Democrats have a majority 55-45 Republicans in the Senate. If you need 51-vote, simple majority, the president will get his way now, by and large, down the road. Republicans understandably very, very angry. We heard from Senator Rand Paul saying it's a dark moment in U.S. history. We heard from Mitch McConnell, Senate Republican leader, as well. There's obviously a lot going on right now. Enormous ramifications.

Brianna, the White House just announced -- Brianna Keilar, senior White House correspondent -- set up in the briefing room there.

They just announced a few moments ago the president wanted to come in to where you are into the briefing room and react to what the Senate has just decided. I assume it's fair to say he will applaud this decision by the Democrats.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that is certainly the expectation. We're expecting President Obama will come here to the Brady briefing room in just a few minutes to make his comments.

Earlier this week, he said he was deeply disappointed that Senate Republicans have, in his words, "once again, refused to do their job and give well-qualified nominees to the federal bench the yes or no votes they deserve." This is something he has been calling for some time now and also something that has certainly been, I guess you could say, a sore for the Obama administration for some time. The objections that they've seen from Senate Republicans to his nominees. And so I think it's also, you're seeing in a way as well, Wolf, also an opportunity that the administration and the Senate Democrats are seizing on because they've also received so much negative attention recently when it comes to the failed launch of Obamacare. They're still trying to get their feet beneath them. It's certainly a political opportunity there to try to change the conversation as well.

But also to focus on something I think they want Democratic voters to focus on, for years, conservative voters seemed to have seized more on the issue of judicial nominees and why this is an important function of Congress. It's something that really only recently more liberal voters have come around to see the importance of it, something Senate Democrats in the White House want to reinforce -- Wolf?

BLITZER: He's a former Senator himself, the president of the United States, the former junior Senator from Illinois. So he fully understands the historic traditions, the role of the filibuster over the years in dealing with presidential nominees. This is a subject the president is personally familiar with also, given the fact he once taught constitutional law at University of Chicago Law School. He's well aware of what the Senate has decided today.

Do we know if the president is only going to talk about his reaction to the historic decision in the Senate? Will he get into other matters, for example, like Iran nuclear negotiations under way in Geneva now or the decision to keep U.S. troops in Afghanistan, maybe now for another 10 years, beyond the exit that was earlier scheduled for the end of next year? Is he going to get into other issues or

KEILAR: Honestly, we don't know at this point, Wolf. What we have been told is he will address what has happened on Capitol Hill. But of course, as you know -- and we have seen this before -- it's entirely possible that he will talk about other issues, be that Iran, be that Afghanistan. And this is something, of course, that the White House has been talking a lot about recently, reports that there could be troops there beyond 2024. You had White House officials really trying to bat down those suggestions. So it may be something he wants to address, but we don't know that he definitely will -- Wolf?

BLITZER: We don't know that he will answer reporters' questions. He may make a statement and bolt, right?

KEILAR: Yeah, that's entirely possible. He frequently does that, comes, make remarks, doesn't take questions, but we don't know at that point -- Wolf?

BLITZER: The last time, he stayed for about an hour. He made a statement and wound up taking questions for an hour or so. He got very personal in dealing with the Affordable Care Act and the botched rollout of the website and all of that. So from our stand point, as journalists, who are interested in what's going on, it would be good if he took a few reporters' questions. I know you have a question or two you would like to ask the question. I'm sure all your colleagues at the White House would as well.

If the president is watching or his aides, go ahead, Mr. President, answer the reporter' questions.

Brianna, anything else special on the president's agenda today, on the schedule? KEILAR: At this point today, Wolf, I'm not aware of that.

BLITZER: Nothing else beyond this. The president also has a lot going on. We see a little bit of movement behind you, but we'll wait for the president. Right now, he's supposed to walk out, in about three and a half minutes. Usually there's a delay for understandable reasons.

Hold on for a moment, Brianne.

Dana Bash is up on Capitol Hill where the reaction has been intense.

Positive reaction coming in from Democrats, very negative reaction coming in from Republicans to this historic change. The rules of the game are been changed in the Senate for the first time in decades dealing with that 60-vote requirement earlier for sensitive nominee confirmations. Now the rules have been changed.

Dana, what other reaction are you getting?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very interesting. You're hearing from some of the Republicans who have at least in recent years been the most frequent negotiators with Democrats. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, who have said this is horrible. This will have a chilling effect in relations across parties in the Senate. It will hurt some of the issues they work together on, like treaties, for example.

But Harry Reid just had a press conference. The point he made was, how could it be worse than it is now, meaning, I'll take the chance of having this rules change make things really strident or, you know, calcify with regard to the parties because he just can't see it being that much worse than it is under what he sees as obstructionism in an institution that has been grinding to a halt on a regular basis because of very deep partisan differences and because of the use of that filibuster, and specifically the 60-vote threshold that until a couple hours ago was there to overcome the filibuster.

I asked the question, Wolf, that you were discussing earlier about the fact that Reid himself made, that it would be a dark day in history if the rule changed. He said things changed around here and that's why he changed his mind.

BLITZER: He did change his mind since he said that back in 2008.

Let me take a quick 60-second break. When we come back, we'll hear from the president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Obama getting ready to walk into the Brady press briefing room in the West Wing of the White House to make a statement on the Senate decision to change the rules as far as confirmation of presidential nominees are concerned. The president will make a statement. Don't know if he'll get into other questions. Don't know if he'll answer reporter questions. Gloria Borger is here.

Gloria, we've covered Washington for a long time. And people, who may be tuning in, saying, well, Senate has changed the rules of the game, they say, well, this happens now and then, but this is a big deal.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And it hasn't happened recently. We were looking back, and up until 1975, I should point out to you, it actually took 67 votes for filibuster. Now, of course, that threshold was lowered at that point to 60 votes in 1975. So it's a changing of the rules again.

BLITZER: Now it's gone down to 51.

BORGER: Right. Now it's gone down to 51. The Constitution says nothing about this. The Senate can do what it wants.

I think the real question here is whether this is something the Democrats could regret in the long term or how this is going to affect legislation. The Democrats could argue, look, nothing is getting passed anyway. Judicial nominees are very important, long lasting, an important part of presidential legacies, don't forget, a very important part. And these things have been in such a bottleneck. And Harry Reid said obstruction against Obama has reached heights never dreamed of.

BLITZER: But if the atmosphere was poisonous already --

BORGER: It will get worse.

BLITZER: -- this will --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: It will get worse.

BLITZER: And the opportunities for both sides for the next three years, the remaining three years of the Obama administration for Republicans and Democrats to work together, that's going to be difficult.

BORGER: It will, because somebody like Lamar Alexander, who called it -- a Republican who is not known to be --

BLITZER: He's the number-two Republican.

BORGER: -- but not known to be among the most conservative there. I mean, he's certainly conservative, but he works with the other side of the aisle, essentially called this a power grab. And said that it's the Senate changing its rules in midstream, and so Republicans -- I think there is probably a little bit of "calling your bluff" going on here, that Harry Reid basically threw up his hands and said, enough of this, it's time to do it. As you point out, this is not what Harry Reid always believed.

BLITZER: No. BORGER: It's pretty recently.

BLITZER: I want to bring Dana back in.

Dana, you asked him about this. In 2008, he said as long as he was leader, he would never turn to that nuclear option, saying it would be a black chapter in the history of the Senate. You said, what, things changed, is that what he said to you, Dana?

BASH: That's the gist. That would be the best way to paraphrase what he said, that certainly he never wanted to do it. He also took the heat and took the blame for things being pretty divisive when he was in the minority, saying that, you know, it was his fault in part that things are where they are, which I thought was interesting. And sort of a moment of candor that their understanding and saying both sides are to blame for where we are right now, even though Democrats are saying over and over again that things have gotten completely out of control, that they are much worse with regard to the president's nominees, just sitting there and not even getting a vote at all right now, President Obama's nominees. But that is the gist of what he said.

And he also -- just to underscore the fact, he said things changed, he said the legislation just passed on the floor to support -- to be against discrimination for homosexuals. He said he was against that before, and now he's for it. He said things change, people change.

BLITZER: People change their minds.

All right. Hold on for a moment.

Let me take a quick break. 60 seconds. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)