Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Second Iran Meeting Ends, Nuclear on Deal; Winter Storm Threatens Thanksgiving Travel; Ex-Chemist Guilty of Faking Lab Test; Soldier Blames Twin for Crimes; Kennedy Remembered with 90 Percent Approval & How Will Obama Be Remembered; Fareed Zakaria Interviews Elon Musk

Aired November 23, 2013 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge. It is great to be with you.

It is just after 10:00 p.m. in Geneva, Switzerland, and right now, diplomats are still trying to persuade Iran to stop working on a nuclear program. We've just heard from people that were traveling with Secretary of State John Kerry who say that a deal is very close, but the chances for an agreement this weekend are unclear.

Let's get to Geneva right now and talk to Jim Sciutto of CNN.

And, Jim, let me ask you this. John Kerry just wrapped up that meeting with the Iranian and E.U. officials. Any indication there that this meeting was productive?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was the second today. And what we know is they're getting down to the specific wording of this proposed interim agreement, even down to individual words and individual words can have enormous meaning for both sides. One of the key issues, consistent issue, is Iran's right to enrich uranium, Iran wants an explicit recognition of that right.

But U.S. officials in fact on CNN airs yesterday, said, they're willing to recognize the Iranian's freedom to have a peaceful nuclear program but they don't believe that any country has an explicit right to enrich uranium, how they square that circle, that one-word right is the kind of thing that they're going over right now in these talks and it's one of those things that both sides may very well be digging their heels in so, it shows how difficult it is to get from a place where they have about 90 percent agreement as one of the Iranian officials told us earlier today until they get 100 percent agreement, a document that both signs are happy with.

SAVIDGE: So, big meeting this afternoon, this evening ends. There is obviously is no press conference or major announcements, so what happens next?

SCIUTTO: Well, we know they're talking again. We're waiting for another gathering of the P5+ one members, the permanent five members of the Security Council plus Germany following this most recent meeting between Kerry and Zarif. Presumably to go over what Zarif told him in that meeting and we've seen the cycle repeated again and again over the last three days. It's 11:00 in the evening here, there's no sign they'll going to end early. There is one backstop and that we know that Secretary Kerry has announced his plans to travel to London tomorrow, but then again we're also told that if the talks continue, he may have to come back to Geneva after that. So, these things could keep going, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Why is it that we seem to get into this where, two weeks ago, same thing, everybody dashes off to Geneva, did it again and from what I'm just sort of reading between the lines here, it doesn't sound like they've got a done deal?

SCIUTTO: Well, they don't have a done deal. They do say they're closer, though, they say they're closer than they were two weeks ago. They say they're closer than they were yesterday, but the question is can they bridge that final 10 percent really? And when you're going down to individual words, you know you're close but that doesn't mean you're going to get there if, you know, one side or the other digs their heels in, because some of these individual words have tremendous meaning for both sides. You know that in Iran, the tremendous emotional and political importance of a recognized right to enrich uranium, but you also know from the western side, from the American side, that they don't believe that right exists and they also want to set strict limitations on it for Iran. So, you know, this is -- they're down to brass tacks now. This is the difficult part of the negotiations.

SAVIDGE: Uh-huh. But this is totally unscientific, but, you know, what is the atmosphere there? I mean, certainly it must have been that reporters and people were on edge, and now, what, we just sort of, oh, well, I guess we'll wait?

SCIUTTO: Well, I tell you, the atmosphere is exhausted, you know, in the days leading up to it, we did hear optimism from both sides. They're serious. I think the fact that they're still in the room is a good sign because very easily they could throw up their hands in the air and say, we're not just going to get there. They're clearly trying. I think both sides know that they have a limited window for an agreement, for different reasons, political pressure at home, so the fact that they're still working on it is a reasonable sign of hope, gut God knows it's no guarantee.

SAVIDGE: And the next meeting you said will take place tomorrow, when?

SCIUTTO: No, there's another meeting tonight. We have every indication they're going to keep going tonight. So we could be here until the early morning hours Geneva time.

SAVIDGE: All right. They're pulling an all-nighter in Geneva. All right, Jim Sciutto, CNN. Thanks very much, we'll stay in touch.

Moving on, chances are if you are either experiencing bad winter weather right now or you're about to be, and the things could get very bad for Thanksgiving holiday weekend. Powerful winter storms moving from the west and, of course, that means they're heading east and it's already bad out there in many places. Ice building up on the roads in Oklahoma and in Texas. Dangerous driving conditions reported along interstate 10. That's also in New Mexico and Texas. And then Monday and Tuesday, that is going to be a critical time period to see just where this storm is going to track.

Joining me on the phone, John Barton, he's with the Texas Department of Transportation. John, what have you been told to expect there?

JOHN BARTON, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR (on the phone): We've been working with the National Weather Service and they're forecasting that precipitation will continue to fall over the next couple of days and temperatures. And a large part of the state will be below freezing, so they expect de-icing and snow conditions to continue through Monday and as you've mentioned, road conditions are poor and are deteriorating, so we would encourage everyone to avoid traveling if at all possible.

SAVIDGE: That's a tough thing to say when you're leading up to the Thanksgiving holiday. What are you doing to prepare?

BARTON: We have crews patrolling our roadways throughout the state and we'll continue to do that 24 hours a day until the storms pass. They're treating our bridges and overpasses trying to keep them from freezing and several of our roadways, major routes, as you mentioned, Interstate 10, Interstate 20, Interstate 40 and other major roadways to try to keep them passable. But all that we do, of course, is then impacted by continuing precipitation. So, the main thing is we'll be out there patrolling, plowing snow and ice as we can, putting materials out to melt the ice that does form and trying to protect the traveling public.

SAVIDGE: And, you know, these ice storms come and go. We know Texas has had many of them in the past. Where does this rank as far as severity do you fear?

BARTON: This particular storm primarily has been ice so far, and it's not as bad as some we've had in the past. But anytime there's ice on the roadway, it's a difficult thing. It's unlike snow and travelers seem to have more difficulty with them. We've already seen several motor vehicle accidents across the state. And so, depending on how bad this continues to be, it could get worse, but at this time it's what I would call a medium-size storm for us.

SAVIDGE: All right, John Barton with the Texas Department of Transportation. Thank you very much for joining us.

By the way, we should let you know that this weather is going to continue to move east. CNN will continue to track it for you as you make your plans to travel for the holidays. Please be safe.

The ObamaCare website, it has been the butt of many jokes and it's been widely ripped by critics. Now the government is taking new steps to try to boost enrollment. The administration will use results of the pilot program that's been working in Florida, Ohio, and Texas to try to get the bugs out of the direct enrollment option section. They'll work with insurance companies to determine if there are issues before, underline that, before even considering making it available across the country.

Here's a first for the Olympic torch. Check out this video of divers taking the Sochi Olympic torch of 50 feet deep into the world's deepest freshwater lake in Siberia. On its trek to Sochi, the torch has made some unprecedented stops such as the international space station, the North Pole and now Lake Baikal. By the way, temperature below the surface a balmy 50 degrees.

Have you ever seen a million dollars worth of marijuana? Sheriff's deputies confiscated more than 700 pounds of pot in a big drug bust on Friday on the Florida coast. The drugs were nabbed after four suspects drug smugglers capsized in their boat off the coast of Hobe Sound, that's north of Palm Beach. Two of the suspects are in custody. One's believed to be on the run. The other is presumed to have drowned.

So, are these people nuts? Some dedicated shoppers already camping outside the stores to get ready for those Black Friday deals. That is next.

And just ahead, an incredible story like something out of the prime time soap opera or movie. A man charged with horrific sex crimes says he didn't do it. His twin did. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Not many people enjoy taking the redeye, that's the late night flight that goes from California to New York. Well, if you think it's tough now, just wait, because soon the person sitting next to you could be chatting on their cell phone all the way there. As you can imagine, the idea is getting a lot of talk and most of it pretty negative.

CNN's Alexandra Field has reaction from fliers at New York's LaGuardia Airport.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Martin, it could be a case of be careful what you wish for, yes, it would be convenient to be able to use your cell phone on a plane, but passengers also have to prepare for the possibility that that privilege could come at a high price.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): A proposal to allow airline passengers to use cell phones in flight has travelers talking.

SHAF MUNIR, AIRLINE PASSENGER: You might want to talk the entire flight in a loud voice about every single problem you have in your family, blah blah blah blah.

RICHARD SANDOMIR, AIRLINE PASSENGER: I don't think it's correct to be able to have to listen to everybody chattering on the phone.

FIELD: It may not be long before we all say so long to the idea of just sitting back and relaxing. Some international airlines already allow passengers to talk and text. Now an FCC proposal could give American air carriers the ability to do the same.

DIANE OELERICH, AIRLINE PASSENGER: I would allow the phone call as long as it's short and to the point. Otherwise, it would be better that they don't use their cell phone.

FIELD: The flight attendants union was against the idea when it was floated back in 2004. They still are.

VEDA SHOOK, PRES., ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: As you know, airplanes fly thousands of feet metal tube in the air and we don't want any kind of situation that could increase any ability to have a volatile situation on board the aircraft.

FIELD: If given the option, it's already clear that some airlines wouldn't be on board. Delta Airlines says if the FCC changes its policy, will Delta allow voice communications on flights, no. But it's a big opportunity for telecommunication companies. Service in the sky could have customers paying through the nose.

CRAIG AARON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, FREE PRESS: This is potentially a multibillion dollar industry for cell phone companies and device manufacturers. Once this ban is lifted, it's not going to be, like, your regular phone will just work perfectly. You'll either have to sign up for extra service or you're going to have to pay serious roaming charges, you know, probably in excess of $2 per minute for every phone call you make.

FIELD: Expensive, right? That's because experts say installing the new equipment on board could cost $3 million to $4 million per plane.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: And passengers are already wondering whether or not the airlines would come up with some sort of fee for people who want to talk or text. So far, the airlines haven't announced those kinds of fees, but some passengers say they would pay a little bit more just to sit in a cell-phone free zone -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Thank you very much.

Good things worth the wait. Let's hope that is the case for shoppers already lined up, yes, for Black Friday. Some shoppers pitched their tents outside of stores ten days ago that was to secure their spot for the door buster deals. Black Friday the day after thanksgiving, the biggest shopping day of the year, at least it used to be, and electronics are among the best deals to get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID VALENTIN, FIRST IN LINE AT BEST BUY: It's better to be first in line than to be last and wondering if you're going to get something that you really want.

JENNIFER ZEGA, SHOPPER: It's just absolutely crazy. I know they do it every year and every year I say the exact same thing. It's just crazy.

JENNIFER SPENCER, SHOPPER: So, I wouldn't set up a tent. I mean, it's not even next weekend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: If you hate fighting the crowds, you can get great deals, cyber Monday, that's just three days after Black Friday and of course, that's on line.

The big crowds are also at the movies this weekend and guess which one, "The Hundred Games" sequel "Catching Fire" is of course dominating theaters. Check out the long lines at Los Angeles premiere Thursday at the midnight showings along the sci-fi thriller made more than 25 million bucks, despite the trilogy success, the film's star, Jennifer Lawrence, isn't letting things go to her head.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: It literally the day the movie was released, I had no idea I was famous yet or anybody had seen it. I don't actually think I actually knew the movie came out that day. So, I will not go to whole foods.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What happened?

LAWRENCE: Whole foods had to call the police and I had to go down, like, the cargo elevator and I was crying. It's really bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Geez.

LAWRENCE: I saw my ex-boyfriend there and he was, like, how is your life? And I was, like, really bad. He was, like, the worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: "Catching Fire" is expected to take in $166 million this weekend in the United States alone.

Maybe Miley Cyrus will celebrate her birthday at the theater. The singer, dancer and occasionally outrageous celebrity turns 21 today. No doubt that his brother-- celebrate the milestone with her first alcoholic beverage ever. I think it's facetious. She was born in 1992, the same year her father hit it big with, remember this, "Achy Breaky Heart." And CNN looks at the life in times in just two hours in the life of Miley and that will be at 7:30 Eastern Time.

It's the drug lab scandal that rocked the Massachusetts justice system. A chemist mishandled sensitive evidence that was affecting thousands of state criminal cases going back a decade. We'll have that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: If you haven't heard this story, it is staggering in what the impact what may be. A former Massachusetts State chemist is on her way to prison for faking test results. Annie Dookhan pleaded guilty to 27 counts yesterday including tampering with evidence, perjury, obstruction of justice and falsely claiming to be holding a master's degree. Many of the samples that she tampered with came from blood cases brought by police and now thousands of those cases could be in jeopardy. We'll get more from CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Appearing grim, crime lab chemist Annie Dookhan is going to prison after her behavior helped put hundreds of others behind bars illegally.

Beyond pleading guilty, Dookhan made no personal comments about the havoc created by the scandal. In a lab similar to this one, Dookhan admits falsifying drug tests, for example, by adding cocaine to samples, tainting trial evidence. When she was finally caught last year, Dookhan tampered logs.

The result, look at all these faces, a fraction of the tens of thousands of people "Dookhaned," street slang for anyone whose evidence she handled, 300 convictions put on hold in Boston alone.

MARTHA COAKLEY, MASSACHUSETTS, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Her actions fully turned the system on its head.

CANDIOTTI: A review of every case the chemist laid her hands on from 2003 to 2007 is still under way.

(on camera): In the court system, the fallout is staggering. Consider the numbers. According to a special counsel's report, more than 40,000 cases have been reviewed involving more than 86,000 drug samples and the analysis of more than five million documents.

(voice-over): At a cost to taxpayers of at least $7 million and climbing.

TIMOTHY CRUZ, PLYMOUTH COUNTY PROSECUTOR: When you throw a stone into a pond, there is a ripple effect.

CANDIOTTI: Arguably, the worst ripple effect felt by Plymouth County District Attorney Timothy Cruz, because of Donta Hood. In 2009, a cocaine conviction put him behind bars for five years. But when the lab scandal exploded, Hood was set free, because Dookhan had lied on the stand about her credentials, claiming she had a master's degree in chemistry.

Eight months after he was sprung, Hood allegedly shot and killed Charles Evans in this parking lot in a fight over drugs. The victim's family declined to comment.

CRUZ: There's no bigger pain than somebody being released that goes out and kills somebody.

CANDIOTTI: For cops on the beat like Stanley David, frustration.

STANLEY DAVID, BROCKTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: It's like a second -- like a pass. They think they -- they beat the system once. They think they can beat the system again.

CANDIOTTI: Which brings us to why. Why did Annie Dookhan do it? She declined our request to explain, but her lawyer says the mother of a disabled young son only wanted to help her career, taking shortcuts to get more cases done, never considering the consequences.

NICK GORDON, ATTORNEY FOR ANNIE DOOKHAN: The furthest thing from her mind is that this is going to ultimately cost millions of dollars, it's going to throw the entire Massachusetts criminal justice system into a tailspin and thousands of...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which it has.

GORDON: Absolutely, it has.

CANDIOTTI: As Dookhan was led away to begin serving a minimum three- year sentence, authorities expect it could take at least that long to reconcile thousands of Dookhan cases and restore faith in the state's criminal justice system. Susan Candiotti, CNN, Brockton, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: As we said, amazing and really just the tip of the legal iceberg.

Joining me now to discuss this, clinical psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere and Criminal Defense Attorney Holly Hughes. And let me start with Dr. Gardere because 40,000 cases now as you've heard could be impacted by this work or maybe lack of work. What was going through her mind or how does a person justify doing something like that? Do you have any idea?

DR. JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, a lot of people are wondering what is going on. No clear answers. We do know that by dry labbing, in other words, not testing the contents of the samples that was sent, she was giving quick turnarounds to the prosecutions primarily and, therefore, was able to get in more and more cases and build a reputation of having this very, very quick turnaround and being superefficient. So, what we're seeing is this was about advancing her reputation as much as possible.

When we look at something like this, let's not be fooled by the fact that she seems to be very petite, seems to be attractive, this is what we call sociopathic behavior. In other words, doing whatever she can to just advance her own life, her own career, maybe taking care of her child, but not even thinking about the consequences on the lives of so many others, people just put in jail and who may not even be guilty.

SAVIDGE: All right. Hold on, doctor, because I want to bring in Holly Hughes here. Because we were talking about this. You know, as we may have been trying to burnish her record but we also point out, she's a state employee so she wasn't going to get anything. That's not really my question. My question has to be, there have been so many of these cases, 40,000, what happens? Do they get thrown out? Where does they go? HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, what they're going to do is what we call in the law, the harmless error test. So, a review is going to be done. It's possible in a lot of these 40,000 cases guilty pleas were enter, they didn't go to trial. So, if the person takes a guilty plea, they stand up before the court and the court asked them a series of what they call the Boykin questions, based on a Supreme Court case, and basically they say do you know that you are giving up all these rights by pleading guilty and then ask them, are you guilty? In those cases, if they've admitted guilt, it doesn't really matter that this woman may or may not have done her job properly. What they're going to look at is ones that went to trial, and the court is going to look at all the evidence, when they review it, is there somebody else testified, was a co-defendant on board who said, yep, that's the real deal, you know, I'm absolutely guilty of selling cocaine and, by the way, he was in on it, too.

SAVIDGE: OK. So, the lab result wasn't the only evidence they may have had.

HUGHES: Correct. And in those instances, the court may say yes, there was error but it was harmless error because the other evidence also bolstered that conviction.

SAVIDGE: Dr. Gardere, it is possible that some people may have been wrongly convicted or at least accused as a result of, you know, this lab work. How does a person handle that?

GARDERE: Well, certainly I know she must be and I hope she's feeling some guilt. It seems that she is. And as the prosecution said here, she wasn't even aware that she's turning the legal system upside down. She had an overwhelming -- Martin, she had an overwhelming urge to want to please others, to please the prosecution in these cases and she did it to the point of where she just didn't even think about how many people's lives that she may have been destroying.

SAVIDGE: Yes. Obviously she didn't. Holly, we know that, of course, she's gone away to prison.

HUGHES: Right.

SAVIDGE: Is it possible people could sue her? Could the state sue her or could even families?

HUGHES: Actually individual families certainly can, if it falls within the Statute of Limitations, I expect we'll going to see some lawsuits based on intentional infliction of emotional distress, I mean, what you've put these people through, men and women alike, who have been sent to prison because you were just too lazy or, you know, too wrapped up in your own ego to do the job properly. So, I think we're going to see some of that but we also need to remember any attorney that's approached about bringing one of these cases is going to look at the reality and is there anything to recover. I mean, it's nice to make a point, Martin, you know, yes, we want the principle that she should be held accountable, but if she doesn't have anything for these people to recover. But I think some people are going to sue the state. I think they're going to say you should have known this woman was doing this, I think the state is in for a lot of lawsuits.

SAVIDGE: We're going to end the talk on this, but we're going to continue our conversation on the law and those involved. Jeff, Holly, stay here.

Here's a story for you. One man charged with terrible crimes and he claims he didn't do it. And get this, he says it's his twin. What does the DNA evidence say? You'll be surprised. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: This may sound like something out of a soap opera. I actually think it was the plot of a soap opera at one point. The man takes the blame for the actions of his evil twin. This scenario, though, is playing out in a real Colorado courtroom. A soldier claims that his identical twin brother is the one that's responsible for the sex crimes that he is now accused of.

We get more from CNN's Miguel Marquez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is brother versus brother, identical twins. Aaron Lucas, a decorated Army officer, is charged with trying to lure 11 girls between 6 and 9 years old into his vehicle and sexually assaulting three of them. All this, while on active duty at Ft. Carson in Colorado Springs.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Do you have any questions, sir?

AARON LUCAS, CHARGED WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT: No, Your Honor.

MARQUEZ: DNA now linking him to alleged sex crimes in two other states. But Aaron Lucas said his identical brother Brian is to blame for some or all of the crimes.

DNA was taken from Aaron Lucas when he was arrested last year. The sample posted to a national database linked him to unsolved sex crimes in Madison, Alabama, and Texarkana, Texas. There is, however, one possible exception. Identical twins have virtually identical DNA.

Both brothers lived in Alabama and Texas. Brian says he's never been to Colorado Springs and law enforcement agencies in Alabama, Texas, and Colorado say Aaron Lucas remains the focus of their investigations.

Defense attorneys say beyond the DNA evidence, one alleged victim described their assailants as driving a black Acura sedan, a car similar to that owned by Aaron's twin brother Brian. The defense also says another witness identified a different man altogether as her assailant. All evidence the judge says a jury can now hear.

Still unclear whether Brian Lucas will be compelled to appear in a Colorado court in a case expected to start in January.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, Los Angeles. (END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Thanks, Miguel, for that breakdown.

Let me bring back now clinical psychologist, Dr. Jeff Gardere; and criminal defense attorney, Holly Hughes.

Holly, how will you prove who's really responsible here?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: You're going to look at evidence besides DNA. If there's any fingerprints> identical twins don't have identical fingerprints. If there's any fingerprints, they'll look at that. They'll also look at alibis. If the brother Brian can prove he was somewhere else, and the DNA matches, it's got to be the brother who's charged with the crime. They're leaking at alibis and additional, like we talked, about the car. We heard him talk about that. Miguel told us, somebody said it was a car like the brother's. OK, but was it the brother's? They'll look at all of that, all of that additional.

And you ask, you know, do you think Brian will be called into court? I do. And do you know who is going to call him? The state is going to call him to say, did you do this, and he's going to say absolutely not, and here's why. He's going to list out every alibi he has. And in some of those attacks, he wasn't even in the state at the time they happened.

SAVIDGE: All right, Dr. Gardere, let me ask you this, is it common for this sort of "good twin, bad twin" scenario?

DR. GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Not usually, because what we're looking at, right, is the same DNA. When we look at studies done on identical twins, we try to match up the behavior. Even if they've been separated at birth, we find that they have -- they both share the same kinds of behavior. Though we have seen cases like this, and Holly can speak to it, where one twin has blamed another for whatever trouble they seem to get in. So, this is what muddies up this thing, and, of course, a third suspect. But, no, we usually see some of the same behaviors or at least the outline of some of the same behaviors.

SAVIDGE: Yeah, well, we used to, you know, obviously talk about this as twins with kids because they think they could get away and blame the other, but we're talking about something far more serious.

Has there ever been this kind of evil twin defense?

HUGHES: There has been, several times in a courtroom. And it doesn't work. And it doesn't work because of those other factors. Sometimes there's a tattoo that one twin has that the other doesn't. A lot of times, if there's a sexual assault case, you'll see bite-mark impression. Teeth aren't going to be the same. Over the years one twin gets a cavity, a filling, the other one doesn't. So there's always a way to sort of distinguish them. So it has been tried. It has not been successful in any of the cases it's been used in thus far. SAVIDGE: Well, let me ask you, this Dr. Gardere, and this is -- obviously we're just saying sort of what if. These are terrible accusations that have been made for luring very young girls. So, say, it wasn't him and eventually it's proved that it was somebody else, maybe the twin. What is the impact likely to be on that person who's been accused of this?

GARDERE: Even if he's found not guilty of this, the fact that he's been accused of being a pedophile, raping three of these -- of youngsters, is something that he's going to have to live with forever. And people are still going to have doubts, and they'll ask, well, why is it that he was raised perhaps in the same household with this evil twin, does he have some of this same behaviors because of the genetics that he hasn't acted out, but is he someone that can be trustworthy. So this thing does get very complicated.

By the way, they're coming up with new DNA tests because we find that DNA does change over time because of the impact of the environment. So, they're not going to have this kind of an issue in the future. But still, we're waiting on that test to come to fruition.

SAVIDGE: Fascinating. Actually, two fascinating cases.

Dr. Jeff Gardere, Holly Hughes, attorney, thank you both for joining us. We thank you very much.

GARDERE: Pleasure.

HUGHES: Thanks, Martin.

GARDERE: You, too.

SAVIDGE: For some of this week's remembrances for John F. Kennedy, it's put into sharp focus how far back Obama's approval rating has fallen since those early sky high numbers. Years from now, how might President Obama be remembered? Well, I'll ask a presidential historian that very question next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: I love history, and this is fascinating. In November 1963, President John F. Kennedy's approval rating was 58 percent. Since his assassination, that number's gone up and up and up, to today where it's an incredible 90 percent, or 90 percent of Americans approve of how he handled his presidency. How did a fairly popular president become the most popular president?

Joining me in New York is Princeton political historian, Julian Zelizer.

Julian, welcome.

Let me ask you that. Explain it. I suppose it's because it's kind of a memorial in memory we do.

JULIAN ZELIZER, PRINCETON POLITICAL HISTORIAN: Yeah. I think there's two reasons. One is obviously the assassination has an impact on our memory of the president. A certain sorrow remained in the national psyche and so we remember him well.

The second part is it was an unfulfilled presidency. So, it was very limited. A lot of the things that could have gone wrong in the next few years, a lot of the problems that set in once a president is in office for a while, we don't know, so it remains an open question. And I think we imagine the best about what would have happened.

SAVIDGE: OK, so moving on from Kennedy to, of course, Lyndon Johnson. For the second half of the 20th century, only Richard Nixon's were lower than Lyndon Johnson's, even though he passed the Civil Rights Act where Kennedy failed. So why is Johnson remembered with such, I guess, low esteem?

ZELIZER: Yeah, it's an amazing story, given how much more legislation went through during Johnson's presidency. The big answer obviously is Vietnam and the war was so unpopular, so divisive, and had such a damaging effect on the president's party that that's what we remember him for. And it overshadows many huge accomplishments, like the creation of Medicare and Medicaid and the Civil Rights and Voting Acts of 1965. But war can destroy how we remember a president. And no one knows this as much as Lyndon Johnson.

SAVIDGE: There are some people that actually associate Johnson maybe in some way connected with a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. Do you think that weighs in in any way?

ZELIZER: I don't know. I think that's still a very fringe view. I know there's a new book about it. But I really think it's about Vietnam and it's about the divisions that his successful policies caused as well. Success often breeds controversy, and that was a case with a lot of his civil rights initiatives, which opened up fights, even though they were meant to resolve the issue of racial inequality.

SAVIDGE: Well, and this is really sort of a way to bring it into modern day, because how much of President Obama's legacy will be tied to, say, Obamacare, if it isn't fixed? How much does this hurt him?

ZELIZER: Well, it's going to be huge. There's no war like Vietnam, thus far, that's going to overshadow what he did, so it's really going to come down to this health care program. That's how presidents are really measured in most cases, what they do, what they put forward, and how the programs work over time. So, he has a lot riding on this, not just for the policy itself but for how we remember him over time.

SAVIDGE: So if it were to fail or if it just continues to be this program that can't seem to get it right, that ruins eight years?

ZELIZER: It doesn't ruin eight years. There's other parts of his presidency. But this is the high-profile piece of legislation. He has defined himself around this bill. So, if it's a program that doesn't work or is dismantled, even worse. I think it's going to be the first thing or one of the first things we write about his presidency, rather than his being a transformative president or a president who solved the biggest issues in domestic society. So, I do think it could have that effect.

SAVIDGE: Well, we've still got a long way to see how that is written.

Political historian, Julian Zelizer, thanks very much. It's always a pleasure.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: Do you think you have the stuff to be a hero? Maybe a warrior? Maybe a Jedi? Thousands showed up to prove they do. Because there's a "Star Wars" casting call this weekend. We'll tell you where, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Some young actors and actresses are hoping that the force is with them. Hundreds of people turned out in London. They are looking to be cast in the new "Star Wars" movie. Filmmakers are looking to fill two major roles, a 17-year-old girl and man in his 20s. Sorry, I don't have much more than that. "Star Wars: Episode 7" expected to hit theaters in December 2015.

And a big moment Monday for the private space firm, SpaceX. It plans to launch a satellite for a Swedish company. And this week, on "GPS," Fareed Zakaria talks with the CEO of SpaceX and Tesla, Elon Musk, about space travel and the importance of creativity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, GPS: So this is the Dragon that goes up into space and is going to go up on Monday, correct?

ELON MUSK, CEO OF TESLA & SPACEX: Yes, that's the Dragon spacecraft or version one, which is capable of taking cargo to and from the space station including biological cargo like fish and mice and that kind of thing.

ZAKARIA: So, when do human beings start going up, do you think?

MUSK: We expect to complete version two of Dragon, which will have actual transport capability in about two years.

ZAKARIA: Most of what you do now is send satellites up into space?

MUSK: Right.

ZAKARIA: That's how you pay the bills?

MUSK: Exactly.

ZAKARIA: But you want to do something much more ambitious with SpaceX?

MUSK: Yeah. The long-time aspiration is to develop the technologies necessary to transport a large number of people and cargo to Marks in order to create a self-sustaining civilization there. That's really why I started the company, was because it seems as though --

ZAKARIA: To create the possibility of life on other planets?

MUSK: Yeah, exactly.

ZAKARIA: Elon Musk, you are somebody who is very scientifically oriented. All your companies have a deep, deep amount of science in them, but there's also an enormous amount of imagination, to the idea of moving to Mars.

MUSK: Yeah.

ZAKARIA: The glamour of having a very fast car, not just an electric car. Do you think of yourself as a scientist, as an inventor? How do you think of yourself?

MUSK: I try to focus on whatever the problem is, that's the progress. My personal interest is much more in engineering and design, science, and that kind of thing. But In order to create a company and have a company succeed, you also have to do other things. You have to do finance and sales and legal. Those are not my favorite things to do. But if you don't do the stuff you don't like, the company won't succeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: You can catch the entire interview of Fareed Zakaria on "GPS", tomorrow at 10:00 and 1:00 eastern here on CNN.

By the way, that man, Elon Musk, is an incredible entrepreneur. He might have been an inspiration for some of these guys. Tech startups from inside prison. That's right. And it's up next.

But first, check out the newest way for golfers to get around the course. Here is today's "Technovations."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These guys are teeing off, then taking off on the newest way to play golf. It's called the GolfBoard. A four-wheel drive, battery powered skateboard and caddy combined.

PAUL HODGE, PRESIDENT & CEO, GOLFBOARD: It feels like a cross between snowboarding, skateboarding and surfing.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Flip a switch on the remote control and off you go.

Riders simply lean to make turns. The engineers created an innovative system of wheel mounts so the board stays flexible.

MIKE RADENBOUGH, GOLFBOARD TECHNICAL DIRECTOR: We did something news. This is totally proprietary to the GolfBoard. It enables new riders to get on and the board is very stable.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Its top speed is 12 miles per hour. Its designers say it won't damage the grass on the course.

If you want a GolfBoard, it will cost $3,500. But its creators plan to sell directly to golf courses so you might be able to rent one for your next round.

HODGE: There's about 40 boards we have built to date. But we are gearing up for mass production. We anticipate there being about 6,000 by summer out in the marketplace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Could that new app on your phone have been written by someone doing life in prison?

Our Laurie Segall explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is San Quentin State Prison. Behind bars, murderers, thieves. And here is one that might inspire you -- aspiring entrepreneurs.

JORGE ZAVIA (ph), PRISONER &, FOUNDER, CEO, FUNKY ONION: My name is Jorge Zavia (ph) and I am the founder and CEO of Funky Onion.

CHRIS REDLITZ, CO-FOUNDER, THE LAST MILE: -- a great idea.

SEGALL: Welcome to The Last Mile.

REDLITZ: So, the same question.

SEGALL: That's Chris, along with his wife Bev. He had the idea to start a program to do what many tech entrepreneurs do, solve a problem.

BEVERLY PARENTI, CO-FOUNDER, THE LAST MILE: In California, we spend more in prison for higher education.

SEGALL: More than 60 percent of California prisoners released, end up back behind bars in three years. One reason? They can't find work. So like many others in the Bay Area, these inmates are becoming tech entrepreneurs.

UNIDENTIFIED PRISONER: I'm extremely passionate about technology.

SEGALL: They study social media, technology and entrepreneurship.

REDLITZ: -- to what guys talk about in this book.

SEGALL: Behind bars, they are learning to build modern-day businesses. Like any tech innovator, they pitch their product.

UNIDENTIFIED PRISONER: You can subscribe to our premium service.

SEGALL: Not just to Chris and Bev, but to venture capitalists.

REDLITZ: I think Silicon Valley is the ideal place. It's a place where people succeed and fail and start over again.

UNIDENTIFIED PRISONER: If I can conquer eight years of incarceration, I can conquer this.

SEGALL: And there's proof. That's Kenyatta Leal.

KENYATTA LEAL, FORMER SAN QUENTIN INMATE & ENTREPRENEUR: Back in 1994, Motorola had come out with the flip phone.

SEGALL: His involvement in The Last Mile, landed a job at Rocket Space, a co-working office for tech startups.

We sat down with Kenyatta and two former inmates. They have coveted jobs in technology.

(on camera): Can prisoners make good entrepreneurs?

JAMES HOUSTON, FORMER SAN QUENTIN INMATE & ENTREPRENEUR: We started getting in trouble because we thought outside the box.

SEGALL (voice-over): Prison may be an unlikely place for startups to emerge, but behind bars, the same rules apply.

JAMES CAVITT, FORMER SAN QUENTIN INMATE & ENTREPRENEUR: To go and want to be an entrepreneur, you have to be resilient. It's one thing prison does teach you, how to be resilient and win against all odds.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: This is an interesting subject.

Laurie joins me live.

Laurie, we are calling them entrepreneurs. What sort of crimes are they in for?

SEGALL: Martin, serious crimes, murder, armed robbery. One of the guys in the pieces -- many of the guys committed murder in the past, a violent carjacking. They are serving 10, 20, sometimes 30 year sentences behind bars.

SAVIDGE: I understand they can't use a computer right now. How can they hope to be the next big thing in the tech world?

SEGALL: They physically write tweets that volunteers go and tweet for them. It's about trying to give them a voice and brand themselves from behind bars. If they get out, they are able to be who they want to be. It's like their resume. In Silicon Valley, the idea of meritocracy and the idea of a good idea is OK, and success and failure, whether or not you fail, if you fail you can succeed greatly. That's the idea of the valley. It's giving them a lot of hope behind bars -- Martin?

SAVIDGE: You're right. As you say, it's a great story.

Thank you for bringing it to us, Laurie Segall.