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Kerry Met Today with Iran, E.U. Officials; China, Japan Wrangle Over Disputed Islands; Bad Timing for Powerful Winter Storm

Aired November 23, 2013 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge. Nice to be with you.

Well, there is no weekend down time in Geneva. At least not this weekend -- not when a historic deal on Iran's nuclear program is within reach.

Twice today, Secretary of State John Kerry met with his counterparts from Europe and Iran. They are hammering out the final details to an agreement that would exchange lighter sanctions on Iran for a significant restriction on their nuclear program. But those few final details -- well, they are always the problem and the difference right now between success and a breakdown.

Let's get to Geneva and talk to CNN's Jim.

And, Jim, it's now after 1:00 in the morning. We spoke with you several hours ago. Negotiating sessions still going on.

So, where does this deal stand?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Martin, I keep wanting to be able to tell you there's a resolution here. But, as you said, it's past 1:00 in the morning. We know they are still meeting.

Got word that the diplomats from the P5-plus-1 have gotten together again following that second meeting Zarif-Kerry meeting. And one of the Iranian diplomats here have said they are 98 percent of a way to a deal. But if the final 2 percent, it is really where the key disagreements are and really, they've been the issues from the very beginning of these talks, including what will be the status and how will it be described, Iran's right to enrich uranium.

Iranian officials are saying that they want it explicit. They want it written down on paper.

The U.S. position from the beginning has been there is no right to enrich uranium. We don't recognize it for any country. We're not going to recognize it for Iran, but there may be other ways around it. We would be willing to recognize the Iranian people's freedom to have a peaceful nuclear program.

If that is the key issue, apparently, that compromise is not enough at this point. Apparently, they are also still disagreements on the status of the Iraq heavy water plant. This is the second path to a bomb, using plutonium. What restrictions will be on that?

So, we are down to the final words on those agreements but those final words may be so difficult to achieve they could stand in the way of an agreement.

SAVIDGE: OK. And let's just walk through I mean, it's good news, of course, they are still talking at this hour. But if they fail and it falls apart for a second time, what is this really going to mean for the future of these kind of talks?

SCIUTTO: It would be hard to explain for both sides. It would be difficult for John Kerry to comeback, having been here twice in two weeks and the other foreign ministers having flown in, using their clout presumably to bring all the parties together to a deal. That would be difficult to explain.

In the U.S., you have a time line, right? Because you have members on Capitol Hill pushing for a new round of sanctions, which the administration feels they need to push off, otherwise it will spoil the chances for these talks.

And they feel they can only push it off for so much time. Even the Senate Democratic leader have said he may introduce a vote on new sanctions as soon as after the Thanksgiving break. That's just another couple of weeks from now. That's on the American side. So, difficult from there.

For the Iranian foreign minister to go home after these talks, difficult for him to sell to a skeptical population, to hard liners in his own government, that it's worth talking to the Americans because, of course, the Iranians feel that they are giving up a lot.

So, it would be difficult to explain. And that may be why both sides are working so late into the night and maybe even later to try to find a resolution.

SAVIDGE: Right, exactly. Trying to avert what could be a difficult conversation in both places.

All right. Jim Sciutto, thanks very much. We'll stay in touch.

Of course, in diplomatic circles, there is no agreement on what is the best resolution to the nuclear situation with Iran. Do we negotiate or keep on the pressure and the sanctions?

Stay right there because in a couple minutes, well, we'll have more and continue that conversation. Two guests will join me from Washington and we'll get both sides of that.

China and Japan's fight over eight disputed islands took a very dangerous turn today. I don't know if you're aware of this. But Beijing is creating what it calls an air defense identification zone and it just happens to include the sky over the islands. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel calls a destabilizing attempt to alter the status quo.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins me now on the phone from Washington.

And, Barbara, just how dangerous is this move by Beijing?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, good evening, Martin. Just one measure of how dangerous it is, very unusual, very rare public statements on a Saturday night in Washington from Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and also from Secretary of State John Kerry, of course, over in Geneva on those Iran talks also issuing a statement, very concerned about China's latest moves.

This air exclusion is what they are talking about. Basically, it's going to require the Chinese any military aircraft flying through the area which is an international air space, by all accounts, to basically radio the Chinese government, state their position, their aircraft, what they're doing, where they're going, all of it. That is not going to work for the United States. Chuck Hagel already indicating the U.S. has no intention of going down this road.

It appears to be an effort to intimidate Japan over those islands. But it adds to destabilization throughout the region and it's very concerning to the United States about what the Chinese might do if somebody doesn't obey these new rules. That's the question, what's going to happen next.

SAVIDGE: Right. Because you always have this concern that, you know, an accident of some sort could have huge military consequences.

How is this going to change U.S. operations in that region?

STARR: Well, you know, Hagel says he put the marker down tonight on behalf of the United States and the U.S. military, saying that the U.S. will not change in any way how it operates in the Pacific. So, if it wants to fly through this zone, it will, by all indications. And the U.S. has been upping its military position in the Pacific. They call it that Asia pivot. What it's really about is more U.S. military presence in the Pacific Rim to counter China, to have a military presence there.

The bottom line for everybody, this is the new economic powerhouse, isn't it, out in that region, and they don't want to see military destabilization. The Chinese move is concerning because it's so unclear what the Chinese may really be up to here, U.S. officials believe.

SAVIDGE: Yes, it could be a very dangerous chess game. Barbara Starr, thank you very much for joining us this evening from Washington. Nice to hear from you.

OK, timing -- it could not be worse. Just in time for one of the busiest travel weeks of the year, we've got a very powerful weather system moving across the country. Rain, snow and powerful winds are now creating problems in a number of states. You've got icy roads in Oklahoma and Texas. They are, of course, causing travel concerns. One of Willie Nelson's tour buses was involved in a wreck a couple hours east of Dallas. That was in Sulphur Springs, Texas. Willie wasn't onboard that bus. But three tour members were hurt. We believe weather may have played the factor.

And then look at the snow in Mt. Charleston, Nevada. This is less than 50 miles from Las Vegas. Winter storm warnings now were acted all over the region and temperatures are expected to dip more in the next couple of days.

Flagstaff, Arizona, they can expect heavy snow with up to five inches expected to fall today alone. Please, be careful.

Diplomatic pressure, as we say, is on Iran right now. Americans, the Russians, the French, they also say that the deal on Iran's nuclear program is so close. But should we be negotiating at all? Well, there's plenty of opinions on that. That conversation is still to come.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: It's been our top international issue all day on CNN. A compromise with Iran on the nuclear program is very, very close.

Secretary of State John Kerry is in Switzerland right now. It's in the wee hours of the morning and the diplomatic session is still going on, but no agreement in this country really on whether we should be negotiating.

Joining me from Washington, Professor Hillary Leverett from American University. She's the author of "Going to Tehran: Why the U.S. Most Come to Terms with Iran."

And, Frank Gaffney, he's president of the Center for Security Policy and a former Pentagon official under President Ronald Reagan.

So, I'm interesting to get both of your thoughts on where things stand right now. It's very light. They're still talking.

Hillary, what do you make of this?

HILLARY LEVERETT, PROFESSOR, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Well, they are very close, closer than they have been in over a decade. But I still think --I'm actually not that optimistic and I think it will come down to whether or not the United States and its so-called allies can recognize Iran's right to enrich -- its rights to fuel-cycle under NPT as a sovereign country.

I'm not sure the United States can do it, even though the imperative driving them toward negotiation is clear, I'm not sure they can actually seal the deal.

SAVIDGE: You know, Frank, I'm with Hillary here. I'm getting a feeling they are not going to do it. What is your feeling?

FRANK GAFFNEY, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: You could be right. One of my experiences of negotiating in these kinds of settings a long time ago now is if you want it bad, you get it bad. And the idea, I think most Americans can appreciate this. The idea that these guys are going to spend the night thrashing around with Iranians and the good outcome is going to be achieved I think is unlikely. But that's not because they might not come to terms on this particular point, but because the rest of the deal is lousy.

A couple of really quick points. One is, I believe that the United States is being lied to by its president about what's actually going on here. We've seen the same problem, of course, with Obamacare. This is really national security.

SAVIDGE: OK, well, wait a minute.

GAFFNEY: Specifically this question --

SAVIDGE: Let me break it down. We'll go into this.

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: Hold on, hold on.

We'll go into it. Let me start with this point, it seems to be the sticking point. Iran is not budging on the demand to maintain the capability to enrich uranium, major sticking point.

So, the worst case scenario is that Iran keeps that capability.

Frank, how do you see that?

GAFFNEY: Look, this is not the point. The point is that Iran is going to retain all it needs to maintain an active and, I'm afraid, nearly complete nuclear weapons program. The idea these negotiations on one point or another are hanging in the balance misses entirely the fundamental, which is we cannot trust the Iranians. They made it clear in the person of Rouhani himself, that he's about buying time to complete their ambitions that have been under way for decades.

We are kidding ourselves. One of the point I believe as I said earlier, that we are being deceived by our own government. And no good deal can come out of this, certainly not from our securities point of view and I think that of the region or for that matter, the wider free world.

SAVIDGE: Hillary, let me talk about Frank's point here, because he does raise a good issue of history and that is it has been the policy of the Iranians to delay, to delay, to delay. And I've got to say, it's sounding like we are seeing that again. Yet, you say it's essential that the U.S. negotiate.

LEVERETT: Yes, I mean, I have real experience negotiating with the Iranians. When I worked for the Bush White House, I was one of the few negotiators that negotiated with the Iranians in Afghanistan and al Qaeda. A highly constructive, successful negotiation, including with the current Iranian prime minister who is tonight in Geneva I think trying to get a deal. The issue, though, is not trust. We're never going to trust the Iranians. We're never going to like the Islamic republic. The antidote to that, though, is transparency.

You can't kill them all. You can't bomb them all. You have to figure out how do you get to an agreement that has transparency? And that's what the Iranians have put forward, to not -- to actually agree to, adhere to an additional protocol to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, this is what could actually get us to a negotiated outcome.

The problem that people have, the countries that will not recognize Iran's rights under the NPT, the United States, France, Israel and Saudi Arabia -- the problem they have with that is it would actually recognize the Islamic republic as a legitimate power representing legitimate interest.

The United States, the problem for us is that after President Obama's failed attempt at a debacle, to credibly threaten the effective use of force against Syria, he does not have the military option, he has to do this diplomatically. If it's going to do it diplomatically, the only way out is something negotiated under an international treaty, the NPT.

SAVIDGE: OK. Well, Hillary, let me stop you, because it is a conversation.

So, Frank, let me ask you think, is a military option or what is the option if it isn't negotiation?

GAFFNEY: Look, we are dealing with a regime and with all due respect to Hillary and her negotiations, this is an outfit that for decades has been at war with us. We pretend that's not the case, but it is the case. Despite her negotiations, they have been actively supporting al Qaeda, including during 9/11.

These are people who will make every effort to deceive us. And it's not a matter of transparency, we know they are lying. We know --

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: Frank, I understand. But tell me what is it you would like to see?

GAFFNEY: The alternative to it -- well, I'm afraid the alternative has to be regime change in Iran. We have an option, which is to work with the people of Iran who seek that same outcome. And the efforts of the Bush administration and this administration to actually tie us to this regime instead of -- to the people of Iran is madness, and it is creating a much more dangerous Iran and, I believe, a much more dangerous world.

This idea of a negotiated outcome and getting to it, getting to some sort of a deal, this is beside the point. If you are dealing with people who you know have your destruction in their sort of central credo --

SAVIDGE: Frank, Hillary -- hold on, please.

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: Hold on, please. I'm sorry, we have come to the end of the time we can allow for this. Thank you both. We appreciate it. Hillary and Frank, we appreciate your insights.

The negotiations are continuing at this hour in Geneva. We will be back to talk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: They say good things are worth the wait. Let's hope that is the case for shoppers who are already lined up for Black Friday. Some shoppers pitched their tents outside stores ten days ago to secure a spot for door buster deals.

Black Friday is, of course, the day after Thanksgiving, traditionally, the biggest shopping day of the year and electronics are among the best deals to get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID VALENTIN, FIRST IN LINE AT BEST BUY: It's better to be first in line than to be last and wondering if you're going to get something that you really want.

JENNIFER ZEGA, SHOPPER: It's just absolutely crazy. I know they do it every year. And every year I say exact the same thing. It's just crazy.

JENNIFER SPENCER, SHOPPER: I wouldn't stay out in the tent. I mean, it's not even next week yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Hate (ph) fighting the crowds. Well, you can get great deals Cyber Monday. That's just three days after Black Friday. And, of course, all of that is done with the click of a mouse.

As the old saying goes, we're really in the proverbs here, there's someone for everyone. Maybe even Charles Manson. Could the serial killer be tying the knot in prison? Well, we'll introduce his wannabe bride, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: A Missouri woman tells "Rolling Stone" magazine that she is Charles Manson's girlfriend and that two -- this is the part that really gets you -- will soon be getting married. Manson however says it's a bunch of garbage.

Whatever the case, CNN's Ted Rowlands got some insight from the wannabe Mrs. Manson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sounds crazy, but it is true. A 25-year-old woman wants to marry Charles Manson -- 79-year-old Charles Manson. Her name is Star. "Star" is the name that he gave her. I first met Star four years ago when she was 21 living out in Corcoran, California.

That's where the prison where Charles Manson is being housed. The first question I had for her, of course, why Charles Manson?

"STAR", FRIEND OF CHARLES MANSON: Charlie is all about ATWA, which is air, trees, water, animals. He's been talking about it for over 40 years. None of the TV shows have ever picked that up, I don't know why.

ROWLANDS: Star says she was attracted to Charles Manson because of his views on the environment. She says that after that, she started to get to know his past and was fine with it. When she met him, saying that he is an honest man and she loves him very much.

If indeed they do get married, the state of California will facilitate a marriage in prison. All costs have to be born by the person marrying a prisoner.

In this case, because Charles Manson is in a maximum security facility, there would be no conjugal visits between he and his bride if indeed they do get married.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: We don't normally do birthdays, but we couldn't let this one slide. Miley Cyrus turns 21 years of age. That makes her an adult. She was born in 1992, the same year her father hit it big with "Achy Breaky Heart."

Up next, an in-depth look at Miley's milestones and career in "The Life of Miley".

And we're here waiting on agreement with Iran.

I'm Martin Savidge, thanks for joining us.