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Joel Osteen Talks New Book; President Heckled on Immigration; Morning-After Pill Not Effective for Women Over 176 Pounds; NBA Usher and Fan Dance-Off for Crowd; Pope Meets Putin

Aired November 25, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

Special guest here in the studio, who was once a college dropout, would you believe?

So shy, he says he preferred running a camera instead of being in front of it, let alone being in front of thousands and thousands of people. Look at these crowds here.

Who would have thought those were the beginnings of mega pastor Joel Osteen. According to his organization, about 45,000 people attend his service each and every week at Lakewood Church in House. More than 12 million watch him on TV.

Osteen says he prayed big, he believed big, to reach his status.

And in his latest book, entitled "Break Out!" he shows how believers can reach high expectations, overcome any obstacle and, quote, "live an extraordinary life."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL OSTEEN, PASTOR, LAKEWOOD CHURCH: That bad break can't hold you back. That sickness cannot stop you. That addiction cannot defeat you.

There is a power in you greater than any power that comes against you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And here he is in studio, Joel Osteen. It is such a pleasure, so nice to meet you.

OSTEEN: It's great to be with you.

BALDWIN: Welcome to CNN.

OSTEEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So, the book is "Break Out!" And we're going to talk about your book, I promise -

OSTEEN: Sure. BALDWIN: -- in a couple of minutes. We're going to hold you over commercial break.

But I just wanted to begin, we just had the news with this report out of Sandy Hook, a new investigation talking about this horrendous, horrendous event that happened just about a year ago, and those 20 little first-graders gone.

And as I wondered about this, and I know one of the chapters in your book, you talk about weathering the storm and God.

And I'm wondering, if there were to be a parent of one of those little kids sitting there, what would you tell this mother or father?

OSTEEN: Well, you know, it's difficult. It's difficult things we face.

What I would tell you is God has you in the palm of his hand. And nothing is a surprise to God, and that my encouragement would be draw close to God.

Your children are with God. And when you're close to God, I believe you'll feel close to your children.

I'm not saying that that eases all the pain, but I think that's a lot better than getting bitter, than blaming God, than blaming others.

You come back to that place of peace, to believe your children are with God.

BALDWIN: It's the age-old question, why do bad things happen to good people?

I want to quote you, as part of this chapter. "God uses the storm to move you from Point A to Point B.

"The winds may be strong, the circumstances may look bad, but if you will stay in faith, not get bitter, not start complaining, those winds will blow you to a new level of your destiny."

It's just tough, though, for parents to think how is this part of my destiny, though, to lose a six-year-old?

OSTEEN: Yeah, there's just things that we don't understand, you know?

I know this, though, that God will give you grace for every season. He doesn't let you go through something that's too difficult to handle.

Now, I can't fathom that. because I have never been through that, but you know, there's difficult things about faith. There's things about God that we don't understand.

I think it comes back to God has given us our free will, and people do evil in the world, and it brings hurt and pain, and that's a shame.

BALDWIN: Part of the bigger conversation is mental health in this country. And Rick Warren and I have -- Rick Warren spoke with Piers Morgan after losing his son, who committed suicide this year, incredibly tragic, but he's now trying to raise awareness when it comes to mental health.

Here he is, Rick Warren.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PASTOR RICK WARREN, FATHER OF MENTALLY ILL SON: We have gone to the best doctors, the best hospitals, the best treatments, therapists, everything, prayer, everything you could imagine. Good support.

And he says, it's real clear. I'm not going to get any better, so why can't I just die? I know I'm going to heaven. I know I'm going to heaven, so why can't I -- he was not afraid to die.

PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": What did you say to him, Rick?

WARREN: In that situation, I said, Matthew, the reason why is there is a purpose, even in our pain, and I am not willing to just give up and say that the solution isn't there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So he has now said that he's taking mental health and the issue of mental health to the pulpit with him on Sundays.

OSTEEN: Yeah.

BALDWIN: And I was just curious if you do the same.

OSTEEN: You know, we talk about -- maybe not as specifically as Rick, and he's a great friend, and our hearts broke with him and his family.

But we definitely talk about healing and dealing with real-life issues.

And, you know, sometimes we have not looked at mental health as a traditional sickness, but I think you have to, and we have to do our best to help those people.

BALDWIN: How do you help those people?

OSTEEN: Well, I think, you know, some of it is to get them into the right places where people are trained to do that.

Of course, we pray, and we believe, like Rick said, but some of it is out of our hands. I think it's got to be the right professional institutions to get them to.

And I think that the big part of it is seeing it as a real disease, that, hey, the person -- you may look fine, but all the sudden, you know what? There's something not clicking there.

BALDWIN: Stay with me, because I've got a couple more questions. Again, you've got a new book. It's called "Break Out!" We're going to talk about same-sex marriage. We will talk wealth. We will talk poverty.

These are issues that are on the news all the time, things that affect, you know, a lot of people here, how you interpret certain things in the Bible literally and maybe not as much.

OSTEEN: Sure.

BALDWIN: Joel Osteen live in the studio, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I'm back now with mega pastor, we were talking at the break, how does that sit with you, mega pastor? He says it's all right. It's all right.

Joel Osteen, here in the studio, nice to see you. Thank you so much for being with me here.

His latest book here which he was in town to sign for some folks, "Break Out!" and we're asking all kinds of questions, you're so gracious to take all these different questions we have for you, sir.

And, first, Billy Graham, the Billy Graham, he just recently said -- this was his 95th birthday party, what could be his final sermon here.

I just want to play just a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REVEREND BILLY GRAHAM, EVANGELIST: Our country's in great need of a spiritual awakening.

There have been times I have wept as I have gone from city to city and seen how far people have wandered from God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: People wandering from God.

Looking ahead here, do you have the same fears?

OSTEEN: Well, I think, you know, Dr. Graham has been a hero of mine, growing up in a preacher's home. So, I think I do, in a sense.

In another sense, I see that faith in America is at a high. I mean, I say that and I never dreamed I would be pastoring a church with tens of thousands of people.

I have friends that have churches with big -- you know, lots of people. And when I grew up, a church of 100, 200, that was a big, big deal.

So, in one sense, people are turning to their faith, but I certainly understand what Dr. Graham is saying, too. There is another sense that says we are wandering.

BALDWIN: In your gut, do you feel like -- so, it's not as much a fear, I guess is what I'm getting at.

OSTEEN: It's not a fear to me. I think the scripture even talks about it. It's going to grow darker as the time gets -- but it shows for people of faith, we should shine brighter.

So, it doesn't make me afraid of what's going on in the world today. There's sadness for certain things, but I don't have a fear.

I have an excitement and I see thousands of people that love God, that want to do right, a lot of great people in the world.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about a couple issues that we deal with in the news often, right, being wealth, poverty, marriage, same-sex marriage.

And so let me just quote the Bible. This is Matthew Chapter 19:23. "Then Jesus said to his disciples, Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

"Again, I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

You've done fairly well. You live an affluent life. So you obviously interpret that differently.

But then when you read the Bible, you read about marriage, that it should be between a man and woman, that is what you believe.

How do you determine what to take literally and not from the Bible?

OSTEEN: Well, I think, Brooke, you have to look at the whole, you know, the whole theme and the whole -- I guess just the whole theme.

And, you know, same-sex marriage, you don't see a marriage between two males or two females in the Bible. I'm not against anybody. I just don't see it there.

I think with the scripture there with it's hard for a rich person, Jesus also started the new covenant with Abraham, and he was the wealthiest man in the east, the scripture says.

And it also says the love of money is the root of all evil. It's not -- you know, I think, if your focus is only about money -- my focus is not about money. Our focus is about excelling, coming up higher.

My dad came out of the Depression. He's the one that got the basket for the poorest family.

I believe we're supposed to rise higher and excel. And I don't come from that mentality you're supposed to be poor and broke to show God that you're humble.

BALDWIN: But what about with same-sex marriage? We have seen the president "evolve," I believe was his word, several very high-profile conservatives, states evolving.

Will you evolve?

OSTEEN: I feel like that's what I see in the scripture. I don't see it there.

But, again, I go back to this, because you know, we have these interviews and people say, you're against and you hate people, and you're -- but we're not.

We have all kinds of people in our church, you know, different kinds. So you know, that's what I see in the scripture. That's the way I choose to live my life.

I'm not trying to force my believes on anybody else. Not everybody reads it like me. Not everybody's a believer in Christ like me, so I'm not one that says, everybody has got to be just like me.

But this is how I'm going to choose to live my life. The main thing is God said we should love God and we should love each other.

And that's the focus of our ministry, lifting people up. There's enough hate.

BALDWIN: Lifting people up is the focus of your book, "Break Out!"

Tell me about what people can learn here.

OSTEEN: What they can learn, Brooke, is a lot of times we put limitations on ourselves. I do. We were talking before the break.

For 17 years, I didn't think I could get up in front of people -

BALDWIN: We both were saying we started behind the camera.

OSTEEN: I started in production, and I thought that's what I'll do with my life.

I thought, I'm too shy, I'm too quiet, I'm too reserved. My dad said you'd make a good minister, you know, come from a preacher's home, but for 17 years. I wouldn't do it.

I had all these limitations on myself, and I think that's what the book talks about. We say, I don't have the education, or I'm too this or too that.

But when you take those limits off yourself and take the limits off of God, you never know where God's going to take you.

BALDWIN: Joel Osteen, the book is "Break Out!" Thank you so much and have a lovely Thanksgiving with your family this week. Travel safely back home to Texas. Thank you so much, sir.

OSTEEN: You do the same. Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And, moments ago, President Obama, responding to hecklers in San Francisco as he's been out there, he's been talking immigration reform.

We will have that back and forth for you, how he responded to those folks in the crowd.

Also, a police officer is accused of raping a young woman while he was on duty in uniform and in a marked patrol car, and this isn't the first time the 11-year veteran had been accused of such a crime.

More on that, coming up next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Moments ago, President Obama was heckled while making his remarks in California, speaking on immigration.

He was talking in San Francisco when someone in this crowd started yelling, "Stop deportation!"

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's exactly what we're talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... every single day.

OBAMA: That's why we're here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, please use your executive order to halt deportation for all 11.5 million immigrants in this country right now.

Do you agree that we need to -

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- at the same time, you have the power to stop the deportation of all.

OBAMA: Actually, I don't. That's why we're here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need your help.

OBAMA: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop deportation!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop deportation!

OBAMA: What I would like to do -- no, no, don't worry about it, guys.

OK, let me finish. Let me -- how about -- these guys don't need to go. Let me finish.

No, no, no. He can stay there. Let me -- hold on a second. (APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Hold on a second. So I respect the passion of these young people, because they feel deeply about the concerns for their families.

Now, what you need to know, when I'm speaking as president of the United States and I come to this community, is that if, in fact, I could solve all these problems without passing laws in Congress, then I would do so.

But we're also a nation of laws. That's part of our tradition. And so the easy way out is to try to yell and pretend like I can do something by violating our laws.

And what I'm proposing is the harder path, which is to use our democratic processes to achieve the same goal that you want to achieve.

But it won't be as easy as just shouting. It requires us lobbying and getting it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There's the president speaking off script, responding to that guy behind him shouting, heckling him.

Just a brief back story, the gentleman who we couldn't really see, but hear saying, "Stop deportation," he apparently wanted the president to be able to reunite him with his family for Thanksgiving.

They're out of the country. So that was the crux behind his shouting there, his heckling of the president of the United States, as the president was speaking on immigration, there in California.

Moving along, "On the Case" this hour, a story coming to us from San Antonio, a woman is accusing police officer Jackie Len Neal of sexually assaulting her after she was pulled over for a traffic violation.

Officer Neal told CNN earlier today quote, "The allegations are false," and that he's meeting with his attorney this afternoon.

CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin joins me here. And, Sunny, let's back up. What does the alleged victim here, what does -- what do they say happened to her early Saturday morning?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Brooke. I have a copy of the arrest warrant and she is alleging that she was followed by Officer Neal, an 11-year veteran of the force, approximately 40-years-old.

She says she was followed by the officer, that he told her that he was following her because her car had been reported stolen.

Then she gave him a receipt for the car, she had recently purchased it, and she said that is when things took a turn. He handcuffed her, brought her to his vehicle and sexually assaulted her. That is what she says.

Of course, they did investigate it, and the police department felt that it was appropriate to arrest him and charge him, and so, you know, what is interesting to me when I reviewed this, Brooke, is that he faced a similar allegation not too long ago, a few years ago, from another woman.

We're being told that that woman refused to testify and so that case was not followed up on.

And we were also told that he was officially disciplined for violating department policy for dating an 18-year-old member of the department's Police Explorer program which apparently is a program that introduces young people to law enforcement.

So this is not his first brush with being disciplined but this is certainly the most serious.

BALDWIN: So with this case, here's this woman who was pulled over for this traffic violation. You said 2:00 in the morning. This uniformed cop allegedly assaults her.

Is there any way -- what's the take-away because as a female, if you're pulled over, you want to abide by the law. What's the take-away here?

HOSTIN: Yeah. You know, these things don't usually happen. This is rare and you are supposed to pull over when you are stopped by law enforcement.

This is very rare. This is very unusual.

You should follow a law enforcement officer's lead when he or she tells you to pull over and asks you for license, registration, that sort of thing.

This was anything but a routine traffic stop, and I think that certainly has to be the take-away.

What is also interesting, one thing I want to mention is that in terms of -- for support for this arrest warrant, they are saying the GPS on his car certainly had him stopped at this location for 18 minutes, which approximately is the amount of time this victim says she was assaulted.

And also, the camera that we all hear about, the camera on board the police cruiser wasn't working.

BALDWIN: Wasn't working. Sunny, we'll follow up on it. Thank you very much.

Next, a new study on the morning-after pill, the results show it may not work for women who are over a certain weight.

Our medical team has been digging on this one. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Here's a warning for women who use the morning-after pill. An emergency contraceptive manufacturer in Europe that is identical to a drug sold right here in the U.S. has been found to be ineffective for women weighing more than 176 pounds.

CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has been working this. So over 176 and it didn't work for you?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It didn't seem to work, yes. It didn't seem to work.

So that's a huge concern, considering that more than half of all women in this country are over that weight, sort of that weight range.

That's a big deal. It's not like it's one or two. It's a lot of women who are probably taking this pill and are over that weight range.

As you said, it's the same pill as they have in Europe.

BALDWIN: What do they do?

COEHN: What you need to do is reconsider taking an over-the-counter, emergency contraceptive.

If you find yourself in a sort of morning-after situation and you weigh more than this, you need to think about taking a prescription contraceptive for the morning-after instead of an over-the-counter.

BALDWIN: OK. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you very much.

Now this, it is our favorite video of the day, apparently yours as well. A dance-off between an NBA usher and 11-year-old fan has apparently gotten 3.9 million views on YouTube.

Roll it.

The kid's facial expressions are just absolutely priceless. So these two worked it out on the dance-cams during a game between the Detroit Pistons and the New York Knicks, wowing the 20,000 fans in the arena.

And this morning, the two had a rematch on CNN's "NEW DAY."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here we go. Crazy legs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give him the back. That's it. That's it.

Watch this. That's popping right there. That's old school popping. That's crazy feet. I like it!

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: No word on who actually won the rematch, but after the dance- off, 11-year-old Antwain Alexander made sure to add that he was born with "smooth moves," to quote little Antwain here.

Before we go, a famously humble pope meeting an international leader known for his life of luxury and style and expense, ah, to be a fly on the wall for this meeting, Pope Francis and Russian President Vladimir Putin meeting face-to-face today for the very first time.

They two sat down for a closed-door meeting at the Vatican for about half and hour. This is part of Putin's two-day visit to Rome, one of the topics of conversation, the conflict in Syria.

A couple months ago, Pope Francis penned a letter to Putin ahead of the G-20, telling the Russian president to, quote, "help find ways to overcome the conflicting positions and to lay aside the futile pursuit of a military solution."

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me here on this Monday.

John Berman in for Jake Tapper, "THE LEAD" starts right now.